Once again pointing out the elephant in the room

[Rustic]

Only a stupid fool believes conservatives voted for W or his dad… LOL
He was a big spending pro big government progressive here's the proof. Socialism always fucks over the individual

The problem with some folks who call themselves "conservative" is, they are never responsible for anything.

You got it backwards a real conservative is responsible for themselves, thus very little need for federal government "fairness". While it is human nature to seek out a deadbeat system like socialism, the individual that's really conservative will resist such things.

You won't even take responsibilty for the Bush's, c'mon. Everytime your version of "conservatism" fails you slide out from under it like you just did with the Bush's and fecklessly attempt to blame something else.

I have never voted for a career politician, never will. And there is no way you can prove that Bush was a conservative? LOL

It doesn't matter who you vote for, as long as the public at large is unwilling to change it's own behavior, no change will come. The system will keep churning out what it does regardless of the revolving personalities, "career" or otherwise.

Says the control freak

 

[Timmy]

My Dad was a volunteer fireman in my hometown for 20 years joining other responsible citizens!

That's great.

The future of humanity comes when we start doing good things for each other without the expectation of reward or the usage of violence.

They ain't really "volunteers ". The get paid . They also go through a bunch of training and use all kinds of equipment. Paid for by taxes .

How do YOU KNOW? Were your around in the early 1950s in the Midwest in a small town with population of less then 1,000?
And as far as getting paid"???? The only pay any volunteer fireman got was a burial check if killed in the course of fighting a fire!
You are insulting millions of volunteer firefighters over 100s of years with that stupid comment!

I know a bunch of volunteer fireman that's how the system works here. How was that insulting?

 

[Fenton Lum]

The problem with some folks who call themselves "conservative" is, they are never responsible for anything.

You got it backwards a real conservative is responsible for themselves, thus very little need for federal government "fairness". While it is human nature to seek out a deadbeat system like socialism, the individual that's really conservative will resist such things.

You won't even take responsibilty for the Bush's, c'mon. Everytime your version of "conservatism" fails you slide out from under it like you just did with the Bush's and fecklessly attempt to blame something else.

I have never voted for a career politician, never will. And there is no way you can prove that Bush was a conservative? LOL

It doesn't matter who you vote for, as long as the public at large is unwilling to change it's own behavior, no change will come. The system will keep churning out what it does regardless of the revolving personalities, "career" or otherwise.

Says the control freak

Well, I guess we had some kind of discussion, bye.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

It would occur to me that any group of people that wish to live in common will have the shared cost of that arrangement.

Call it taxes, fees or shared labor. It is simply sharing that cost.

So be it.

There's got to be a pecking order to keep (relative) peace amongst us humans.

Static Status Quo

You're being generic. There's got to be a pecking order with the best at the top. Not qualifying it and just having the most aggressive in charge leads to disaster.

Also generic is saying, "We need 30,000 engineers." No, we need an effective incentive to motivate the 30,000 with those with the most natural talent to study engineering. In fact, we also need to replace the generic engineers we already have working.

^Swallowed in the above^

 

[Rustic]

All my adolescence life I lived in a minority population thus being a minority… LOL

I lived as minority my entire life as well, and I am white.

Yes, being white and Wanting some sort of freedom and individuality seems to be in the minority. Socialism is a terminal disease towards such...

 

[Onyx]

Yes, being white and Wanting some sort of freedom and individuality seems to be in the minority. Socialism is a terminal disease towards such...

I really just see it as one struggle, and I believe you do as well.

We all have a common enemy. You recognized it as the federal government, which puts you ahead of the pack. Hopefully one day you will understand the evil of the state in general.

 

[Rustic]

This is true, but Some want to conveniently forget the auto bailout should not of happened. Those were started by George W. Bush an absolute progressive. Fact

Well he sure did fool a lot of "conservatives".

Only a stupid fool believes conservatives voted for W or his dad… LOL
He was a big spending pro big government progressive here's the proof. Socialism always fucks over the individual

The problem with some folks who call themselves "conservative" is, they are never responsible for anything.

You got it backwards a real conservative is responsible for themselves, thus very little need for federal government "fairness". While it is human nature to seek out a deadbeat system like socialism, the individual that's really conservative will resist such things.

You describe a libertarian. A conservative can easily support public lands and park, enviro regualations, defense, all of which cannot be provided by "the individual."

If people were to take care of their own shit, those things IF WANTED would be possible… LOL
No reason to make people pay for shit they don't need

 

[Rustic]

Yes, being white and Wanting some sort of freedom and individuality seems to be in the minority. Socialism is a terminal disease towards such...

I really just see it as one struggle, and I believe you do as well.

We all have a common enemy. You recognized it as the federal government, which puts you ahead of the pack. Hopefully one day you will understand the evil of the state in general.

Every day that goes by I have become more and more libertarian, and I do have a unique perspective here apparently being a minority growing up on the Indian reservation I've seen socialism that's 100% government controlled fucks people up for generations at a time.
With things like affirmative-action these are the direct result… Fact


Pine Ridge Statistics
Pine-ridge Indian reservation

STATISTICAL DATA

Despite nearly-insurmountable conditions, few resources, and against unbelievable odds, Indigenous people are struggling hard to overcome decades of neglect, discrimination and forced destruction of their traditional cultures to promote a life of self-respect and self-sufficiency.

BRIEF STATISTICS

* 97% of of the population at Pine Ridge Reservation live below federal poverty line.

* The unemployment rate vacillates from 85% to 95% on the Reservation.

* Death due to Heart Disease: Twice the national average.

* The infant mortality rate is the highest on this continent and is about 300% higher than the U.S. national average.

* Elderly die each winter from hypothermia (freezing).

* Recent reports point out that the median income on the Pine Ridge Reservation is approximately $2,600 to $3,500 per year.

* At least 60% of the homes are severely substandard, without water, electricity, adequate insulation, and sewage systems.

* Recent reports state the average life expectancy is 45 years old while others state that it is 48 years old for men and 52 years old for women. With either set of figures, that's the shortest life expectancy for any community in the Western Hemisphere outside Haiti, according to The Wall Street Journal.

INTRODUCTORY

Hidden away, dotted throughout the landscape of America, are the Reservations of the Indigenous People of our land. Mostly unknown or forgotten by the mainstream culture of the dominant U.S. society, the average United States resident knows little or nothing about these people other than what romanticized versions they see in movies and television or else in their nearest Reservation casino. Most assume that whatever poverty exists on a reservation is most certainly comparable to that which they might experience themselves.

And definitely, mainstream Americans are accustomed to being exposed to poverty. It has become nearly invisible due to its overwhelming presence everywhere. We drive through our cities now with a blind eye, numb to the suffering around us. Even more, we watch the televised reports of Third World countries, shake our heads and turn away, rightfully assuming that our government and our charities will help those in need all over the globe.

But the question begs: What about the foreign nations on America's own soil, within this country, a part and yet apart from mainstream society? What about the Native American Nations on America's reservations? Few mainstream Americans know anything about the people that live on these reservations and fewer still know or comprehend the unconscionable conditions present on many of them.

What many do not know is that a staggering number of residents on Native American reservations live in abject conditions rivaling, or even surpassing, that of many Third World countries.

This report chronicles just one Nation, the Oglala Lakota (Sioux) Nation of the Pine Ridge Reservation in South Dakota. Yet the name and only a few details could easily be changed to describe a host of others; Dineh (Navajo), Ute Mountain Ute, Tohono O'odham, Pima, Yaqui, Ojibwa, Chippewa, the list is long.

But despite nearly-insurmountable conditions, few resources, and against unbelievable odds, Nation after Nation of Indigenous leaders and their people are working hard to counteract decades of oppression and forced destruction of their cultures to bring their citizens back to a life of self-respect and self-sufficiency in today's world.



Below are further in depth statistics of Pine Ridge

IN DEPTH STATISTICS

* The Pine Ridge Oglala Lakota (Sioux) Indian Reservation sits in Bennett, Jackson, and Shannon Counties and is located in the southwest corner of South Dakota, fifty miles east of the Wyoming border.

* The 11,000-square mile (over 2 million acres) Oglala Lakota Pine Ridge Reservation is the second-largest Native American Reservation within the United States. It is roughly the size of the State of Connecticut.

* The Reservation is divided into eight districts: Eagle Nest, Pass Creek, Wakpamni, LaCreek, Pine Ridge, White Clay, Medicine Root, Porcupine, and Wounded Knee.

* The topography of the Pine Ridge Reservation includes badlands, rolling grassland hills, dryland prairie, and areas dotted with pine trees.

* According to the 1998 Bureau of Indian Affairs Census, the Pine Ridge Reservation is home to approximately 40,000 persons, 35% of which are under the age of 16. Approximately half the residents of the Reservation are registered tribal members of the Oglala Lakota Nation.

* The population is steadily rising, despite the severe conditions on the Reservation, as more and more Oglala Lakota return home from far-away cities in order to live within their societal values, be with their families, and assist with the revitalization of their culture and their Nation.

* Recent reports point out that the median income on the Pine Ridge Reservation is approximately $2,600 per year.

* The unemployment rate vacillates from 85% to 95% on the Reservation.

* There is no industry, technology, or commercial infrastructure on the Reservation to provide employment.

* The nearest town of size (which provides some jobs for those few persons able to travel the distance) is Rapid City, South Dakota with approximately 57,000 residents. It is located approximately 120 miles from the Reservation. The nearest large city to Pine Ridge is Denver, Colorado located about 350 miles away.

* Some figures state that the life expectancy on the Reservation is 48 years old for men and 52 for women. Other reports state that the average life expectancy on the Reservation is 45 years old. With either set of figures, that's the shortest life expectancy for a community anywhere in the Western Hemisphere outside Haiti, according to The Wall Street Journal.

* Teenage suicide rate on the Pine Ridge Reservation is 150% higher than the U.S. national average for this age group.

* The infant mortality rate is the highest on this continent and is about 300% higher than the U.S. national average.

* More than half the Reservation's adults battle addiction and disease. Alcoholism, diabetes, heart disease, cancer, and malnutrition are rampant.


* The rate of diabetes on the Reservation is reported to be 800% higher than the U.S. national average.

* Recent reports indicate that almost 50% of the adults on the Reservation over the age of 40 have diabetes. Over 37% of population is diabetic.

* As a result of the high rate of diabetes on the Reservation, diabetic-related blindness, amputations, and kidney failure are common.

* The tuberculosis rate on the Pine Ridge Reservation is approximately 800% higher than the U.S. national average.

* Cervical cancer is 500% higher than the U.S. national average.

* Each winter, Reservation Elders are found dead from hypothermia (freezing).

* It is reported that at least 60% of the homes on the Pine Ridge Reservation are infested with Black Mold, Stachybotrys. This infestation causes an often-fatal condition with infants, children, elderly, those with damaged immune systems, and those with lung and pulmonary conditions at the highest risk. Exposure to this mold can cause hemorrhaging of the lungs and brain as well as cancer.

* Many Reservation residents live without health care due to vast travel distances involved in accessing that care. Additional factors include under-funded, under-staffed medical facilities and outdated or non-existent medical equipment. There is little hope for increased funding for Indian health care.

* Preventive healthcare programs are rare.

* In most of the treaties between the U.S. Government and Indian Nations, the U.S. government agreed to provide adequate medical care for Indians in return for vast quantities of land. The Indian Health Services (IHS) was set up to administer the health care for Indians under these treaties and receives an appropriation each year to fund Indian health care. Unfortunately, the appropriation is very small compared to the need. The IHS is understaffed and ill-equipped and can't possibly address the needs of Indian communities. Nowhere is this more apparent than on the Pine Ridge Reservation.

* School drop-out rate is over 70%.

* According to a Bureau of Indian Affairs report, the Pine Ridge Reservation schools are in the bottom 10% of school funding by U.S. Department of Education and the Bureau of Indian Affairs.

* Teacher turnover is 800% that of the U.S. national average

* The small Tribal Housing Authority homes on the Pine Ridge Reservation are so overcrowded and scarce that many homeless families often use tents or cars for shelter. Many families live in shacks, old trailers, or dilapidated mobile homes.

* There is a large homeless population on the Reservation, but most families never turn away a relative no matter how distant the blood relation. Consequently, many homes have large numbers of people living in them.

* There is an estimated average of 17 people living in each family home (a home which may only have two to three rooms). Some homes, built for 6 to 8 people, have up to 30 people living in them.

* 60% of Reservation families have no telephone.

* Over 33% of the Reservation homes lack basic water and sewage systems as well as electricity.

* Many residents must carry (often contaminated) water from the local rivers daily for their personal needs.

* 39% of the homes on the Pine Ridge Reservation have no electricity.

* 59% of the Reservation homes are substandard.

* It is reported that at least 60% of the homes on the Pine Ridge Reservation need to be burned to the ground and replaced with new housing due to infestation of the potentially-fatal Black Mold, Stachybotrys. There is no insurance or government program to assist families in replacing their homes.

* Some Reservation families are forced to sleep on dirt floors.

* Many Reservation homes lack adequate insulation. Even more homes lack central heating.

* Without basic insulation or central heating in their homes, many residents on the Pine Ridge Reservation use their ovens to heat their homes.

* Many Reservation homes lack stoves, refrigerators, beds, and/or basic furniture.

* Most Reservation families live in rural and often isolated areas.

* The largest town on the Reservation is the town of Pine Ridge which has a population of approximately 5,720 people and is the administrative center for the Reservation.

* There are few improved roads on the Reservation and many of the homes are inaccessible during times of heavy snow or rain.

* Weather is extreme on the Reservation. Severe winds are always a factor. Traditionally, summer temperatures reach well over 110*F and winters bring bitter cold with temperatures that can reach -50*F below zero or worse. Flooding, tornados, or wildfires are always a risk.

* Many of the wells and much of the water and land on the Reservation is contaminated with pesticides and other poisons from farming, mining, open dumps, and commercial and governmental mining operations outside the Reservation. A further source of contamination is buried ordnance and hazardous materials from closed U.S. military bombing ranges on the Reservation.

* The Pine Ridge Reservation still has no banks, motels, discount stores, or movie theaters. It has only one grocery store of any moderate size and it is located in the town of Pine Ridge on the Reservation.

* Several of the banks and lending institutions nearest to the Reservation were recently targeted for investigation of fraudulent or predatory lending practices, with the citizens of the Pine Ridge Reservation as their victims.

* There are no public libraries except one at the Oglala Lakota College of the reservation.

* There is no public transportation available on the Reservation.

* Ownership of operable automobiles by residents of the Reservation is highly limited.

* Predominate form of travel for all ages on the Reservation is walking or hitchhiking.

* There is one very small airport on the Reservation servicing both the Pine Ridge Reservation and Shannon County. It's longest, paved runway extends 4,969 feet. There are no commercial flights available.

* There is one radio station on the Pine Ridge Reservation. KILI 90.1FM is located near the town of Porcupine on the Reservation.

* Alcoholism affects eight out of ten families on the Reservation.

* The death rate from alcohol-related problems on the Reservation is 300% higher than the remaining US population.

* The Oglala Lakota Nation has prohibited the sale and possession of alcohol on the Pine Ridge Reservation since the early 1970's. However, the town of Whiteclay, Nebraska (which sits 400 yards off the Reservation border in a contested "buffer" zone) has approximately 14 residents and four liquor stores which sell over 4.1 million cans of beer each year resulting in a $3million annual trade. Unlike other Nebraska communities, Whiteclay exists only to sell liquor and make money. It has no schools, no churches, no civic organizations, no parks, no benches, no public bathrooms, no fire service and no law enforcement. Tribal officials have repeatedly pleaded with the State of Nebraska to close these liquor stores or enforce the State laws regulating liquor stores but have been consistently refused.

* Scientific studies show that the High Plains/Oglala Aquifer which begins underneath the Pine Ridge Reservation is predicted to run dry within the next thirty years, possibly as early as the year 2005, due to commercial interest use and dryland farming in numerous states south of the Reservation. This critical North American underground water resource is not renewable at anything near the present consumption rate. The recent years of drought have simply accelerated the problem.

* Scientific studies show that much of the High Plains/Oglala Aquifer has been contaminated with farming pesticides and commercial, factory, mining, and industrial contaminants in the States of South Dakota, Wyoming, Nebraska, Kansas, Colorado, New Mexico, Oklahoma, and Texas.

* The Tribal nations are considered to have sovereign governmental status and have a government to government relationship with the United States. The Oglala Lakota Sioux Tribal government operates under a constitution consistent with the Indian Reorganization Act of 1934 and approved by the Tribal membership and Tribal Council of the Oglala Lakota Sioux Tribe. The Tribe is governed by an elected body consisting of a 5 member Executive Committee and an 18 member Tribal Council, all of whom serve a four year term.

(Compiled from recent political, government, and tribal publications)
If you wish a list of the resources and publications used for this report, please contact: Stephanie M. Schwartz at [email protected]

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

And the bailouts rolled right on thru "both" "liberal" and "conservative" administrations against the wishes of ~90% of americans.

This is true, but Some want to conveniently forget the auto bailout should not of happened. Those were started by George W. Bush an absolute progressive. Fact

Well he sure did fool a lot of "conservatives".

Only a stupid fool believes conservatives voted for W or his dad… LOL
He was a big spending pro big government progressive here's the proof. Socialism always fucks over the individual

The problem with some folks who call themselves "conservative" is, they are never responsible for anything.

a real conservative is responsible for themselves, thus very little need for federal government "fairness". .

I'd Rather Be a Grammar Nazi Than Not See Grammar

Ironically, you're using collectivist grammar. Why not quit parroting Diploma Dumbo speech and change it to, "Real conservatives are responsible for themselves"? At least you didn't go whole hog and use the ignorant media's "themself."

 

[Rustic]

The person that fucks everyone over is usually in charge - and always is in the employment of the federal government… LOL

Sounds like american style capitalism.

Silly rabbit, it's called socialism every dictator in history is come right out of it… LOL

Well no, but you've got a myth to sell.

You have no proof that socialism has ever worked long-term - because it has not...
And "this time" it will not either. lol

You have always had a blended economy, do some studying as opposed to spewing endlessly.

The "blended economy" is a fuck up… lol

 

[Rustic]

Then there is the most annoying group. Those that support the system where people elect themselves as rulers.

You know, it is the same in an "honest" republic. It is of no consequence whether I am being ruled by a 51% majority or by a 1% minority.

Of course it is. Government is government, and I suspect you simply don't work well with others.

The federal government has never worked well with people they disagree with which happens to be the majority. But they don't give a shit about that, career politicians need a strong federal government to force their views on to other people those being People they disagree with. Socialism/progressivism is a disease that is fatal to any sort of freedom and individuality… Fact

You are at long last coming to an awarenss of what minority populations have always know in america. You just never minded until the colonialization turned your way.

All my adolescence life I lived in a minority population thus being a minority… LOL

Uh huh, shame none of that knowledge you were near rubbed off on ya.

Telling how it is? What is your background? You seem to be a pure socialist... lol

 

[Skylar]

How can you justify all the great things you maintain government does when the fundamental means of support and funding include violence and theft? The means need to justify the ends, and violence and theft are an evil means to an evil end.

Theft is the unlawful seizure of property. There's nothing unlawful about taxes. Nixing your fundamental premise. As taxes aren't theft.

As for violence, its the ultimate basis of any law. And among its many justification is the stark reduction in violence when a 3rd party acts as a leviathan and monopolizes legitimate violence compared to when when individuals and tribes settle issues violently between themselves.

Its an elegant, if impefect solution for the Hobbsian trap. And the method selected by the majority of our people as the method by which order will be maintained in our society.

There is no difference between a state and a street gang.

Begging the question. You haven't factually established the claim. You've merely stated it as an axiom and based your later assumptions on this fundamental assumption.

But your fundamental assumption is unproven opinion. Making all dependent assumptions based upon it unproven opinion as well.

 

[bendog]

Well he sure did fool a lot of "conservatives".

Only a stupid fool believes conservatives voted for W or his dad… LOL
He was a big spending pro big government progressive here's the proof. Socialism always fucks over the individual

The problem with some folks who call themselves "conservative" is, they are never responsible for anything.

You got it backwards a real conservative is responsible for themselves, thus very little need for federal government "fairness". While it is human nature to seek out a deadbeat system like socialism, the individual that's really conservative will resist such things.

You describe a libertarian. A conservative can easily support public lands and park, enviro regualations, defense, all of which cannot be provided by "the individual."

If people were to take care of their own shit, those things IF WANTED would be possible… LOL
No reason to make people pay for shit they don't need

No there you are wrong. The const is premised upon elected representatives levying taxes to pay courts, defense and enumerated powers. The Whiskey Rebellion was directly a result of distillers who objected to paying for costs of the Revolution that they thought they derived less benefit from than from other groups (like bankers and yankee tradters). Just because you think you don't need something is not a valid reason to objecting to a tax. That is the fundamental BS of saying there's no social compact. There is. We have rights as a citizen under the const and BoR, but they come with duties we all owe.

There's no doubt the fed power has expanded since the Founders. But that is another issue

 

[Rustic]

This is true, but Some want to conveniently forget the auto bailout should not of happened. Those were started by George W. Bush an absolute progressive. Fact

Well he sure did fool a lot of "conservatives".

Only a stupid fool believes conservatives voted for W or his dad… LOL
He was a big spending pro big government progressive here's the proof. Socialism always fucks over the individual

The problem with some folks who call themselves "conservative" is, they are never responsible for anything.

a real conservative is responsible for themselves, thus very little need for federal government "fairness". .

I'd Rather Be a Grammar Nazi Than Not See Grammar

Ironically, you're using collectivist grammar. Why not quit parroting Diploma Dumbo speech and change it to, "Real conservatives are responsible for themselves"? At least you didn't go whole hog and use the ignorant media's "themself."

Lol
Scariest phrase in the English language - we are from the federal government and are here to help… A famous man said that once
Being from Indian reservation i know that all too well…

 

[HnL]

I wonder what people in Somalia think of this discussion.

 

[Onyx]

I wonder what people in Somalia think of this discussion.

You mean those living in an anocracy domininated by ruthless warlords, Islamic terror groups, weak administrative governments, and an abusive and corrupt federal government?

The same nation plagued by three wars and economic interventionism by foreign powers?

Yeah, the notion that Somalia is the byproduct of anarchy is ludicrous.

 

[Rustic]

Only a stupid fool believes conservatives voted for W or his dad… LOL
He was a big spending pro big government progressive here's the proof. Socialism always fucks over the individual

The problem with some folks who call themselves "conservative" is, they are never responsible for anything.

You got it backwards a real conservative is responsible for themselves, thus very little need for federal government "fairness". While it is human nature to seek out a deadbeat system like socialism, the individual that's really conservative will resist such things.

You describe a libertarian. A conservative can easily support public lands and park, enviro regualations, defense, all of which cannot be provided by "the individual."

If people were to take care of their own shit, those things IF WANTED would be possible… LOL
No reason to make people pay for shit they don't need

No there you are wrong. The const is premised upon elected representatives levying taxes to pay courts, defense and enumerated powers. The Whiskey Rebellion was directly a result of distillers who objected to paying for costs of the Revolution that they thought they derived less benefit from than from other groups (like bankers and yankee tradters). Just because you think you don't need something is not a valid reason to objecting to a tax. That is the fundamental BS of saying there's no social compact. There is. We have rights as a citizen under the const and BoR, but they come with duties we all owe.

There's no doubt the fed power has expanded since the Founders. But that is another issue

The paying(debt) things we don't need or want has led to this…
This doesn't even include unfunded liabilities which are debts in excess of $100 trillion... we are fucked

 

[Skylar]

I wonder what people in Somalia think of this discussion.

Ultimately any political system has to stand the tests of reality. Anarchy doesn't work. As there's no effective method of conflict resolution. And an anarchic civilization would be swallowed by a more centeralized one due to issues of specialization and focused goal making that anarchic civilizations just can't match.

Thus its relegated to communes that exist within a system of externally enforced laws, tiny blips in history, or the ivory tower of reality averse hypothetical.

Mandatory taxation and mandatory laws work. The system stands for centuries. Anarchy doesn't. Thus, in any reality based discussion of actual systems of governance, anarchy is moot. As its like a house made of wet spaghetti: it simply won't stand.

 

[Rustic]

I wonder what people in Somalia think of this discussion.

They think socialism sucks...

 

[Rustic]

I wonder what people in Somalia think of this discussion.

You mean those living in an anocracy domininated by ruthless warlords, Islamic terror groups, weak administrative governments, and an abusive and corrupt federal government?

The same nation plagued by three wars and economic interventionism by foreign powers?

Yeah, the notion that Somalia is the byproduct of anarchy is ludicrous.

A direct result from socialism, all socialism really is - is a bunch of do-gooders that do nothing but spend other peoples money.