Billy_Bob
Diamond Member
- Sep 4, 2014
- 30,837
- 20,610
People get all giddy that CO2 passes and emits in specific wavelengths, and it may well be able to absorb that same wavelength
Wait, your original claim was wrong?
No, the claim was not wrong. CO2 emits at a slightly lower wavelength than at which it absorbs. No less than the US Energy Information Administration used to have this information on its own website till someone noticed that word was getting around at which time it was removed and erased to the point that even the way back machine couldn't retrieve it. This bit of information was posted before the US government got into the business of acquiring power via climate change.. There are still traces around...the same quote being repeated by multiple posters around the web. Here are a few instances.
RealClimate A Saturated Gassy Argument
post 278 I found this passage recently in a piece from the Energy Information Administration of the US Department of Energy [URL said:U.S. Energy Information Administration EIA - Ap
“What happens after the GHG molecules absorb infrared radiation? The hot molecules release their energy, usually at lower energy (longer wavelength) radiation than the energy previously absorbed. The molecules cannot absorb energy emitted by other molecules of their own kind. Methane molecules, for example, cannot absorb radiation emitted by other methane molecules. This constraint limits how often GHG molecules can absorb emitted infrared radiation. Frequency of absorption also depends on how long the hot GHG molecules take to emit or otherwise release the excess energy.”
Recycling of Heat in the Atmosphere is Impossible A Note from Nasif S. Nahle - Jennifer Marohasy
#[/URL]
“…the energy of these quantum/waves cannot be reabsorbed by molecules of carbon dioxide.”
Critics, be cautious because professor Nahle is articulating and quantifying what is already known about so-called greenhouse gases. A US Department of Energy document says the same, although much more informally.
“What happens after the GHG molecules absorb infrared radiation? The hot molecules release their energy, usually at lower energy (longer wavelength) radiation than the energy previously absorbed. The molecules cannot absorb energy emitted by other molecules of their own kind.” U.S. Energy Information Administration EIA - Ap
So much for recycling…
THE HOCKEY SCHTICK Climate scientists discover magical unlimited power source The Greenhouse Effect
MS said:Nah, an honest eye reveals it clear enough: From 100 units of energy, 100 remain inside the box and 100 units escape. All you have to do is put a second box — transparent bottom, opaque top — on top of the first one. Then you can double the energy once again. And again and again and again.
The greenhouse premise, that 240 W/m² radiated to a two-sided “GHG layer” will generate 240 W/m² on both sides, 240 to add heat to the earth below and 240 that goes out to space. But no, such a layer has TWICE the surface area so it would radiate only 120 W/m² on either side. Climatologists forget what watts per SQUARE METER actually means.
Read Alan Siddons essay The Greenhouse Hustle
which focuses on that silly fallacy.
http://climaterealists.com/attachments/database/TheGreenhouseHustle.pdf
NASA’s Gavin Schmidt dispenses with the subterfuge and asserts it outright:
"The factor of two for A (the radiation emitted from the atmosphere) comes in because the atmosphere radiates both up and down."
RealClimate Learning from a simple model
In addition, you cannot weasel your way around this by trying to look at it as a time delayed process which is occurring almost instantaneously at the speed of light or nearly so. For CO2, for instance, Nasif Nahle estimates that the delay between absorption and emission is just a few milliseconds. Add to this a significant detail found in a US government report.
From Alternatives to Traditional Transportation Fuels (U.S. Department of Energy):
What happens after the GHG molecules absorb infrared radiation? The hot molecules release their energy, usually at lower energy (longer wavelength) radiation than the energy previously absorbed. The molecules cannot absorb energy emitted by other molecules of their own kind. Methane molecules, for example, cannot absorb radiation emitted by other methane molecules. This constraint limits how often GHG molecules can absorb emitted infrared radiation. Frequency of absorption also depends on how long the hot GHG molecules take to emit or otherwise release the excess energy.
U.S. Energy Information Administration EIA - Ap
For an in depth treatment of why the GHE violates the 1st law, read G&T.
Also read this simple analogy:
THE HOCKEY SCHTICK Why conventional Greenhouse Theory Violates the 1st Law of Thermodynamics
Believe what you want...there isn't much I can do about that, but the fact is that science has known that CO2 emits at a slightly lower wavelength than it absorbs for a good long time now but the climate change hoax has caused it to no longer admit to the fact.
No, the claim was not wrong. CO2 emits at a slightly lower wavelength than at which it absorbs.
Excellent! Now if you can show that CO2 cannot absorb any wavelength that CO2 emits, we'll be getting somewhere.
IF the wavelength is outside the absorption band it cannot..