One more reason why the Tax Proposal is a GOP scam.....

[bendog]

the Gop plans to run on this as Trump's big accomplishment, but anyone who does not base opinions on preconceived notions and partisan bs knows this is pig, and it's a cut giving the very rich YUUUGE breaks and workers ... crumbs, and in some cases higher taxes. It seems to me that the gop is cutting its own throat, but many gop congress critters are owned by the rich, just as dems have their SJW. Trump is toxic and this should not play well in suburban districts.

The "best" way to summarize why this plan is a PIG, is the fact that the tax plan REVERTS the tax breaks for the middle class within a short term, while giving the tax breaks to corporations in PERPETUITY.

Well, I'd give them a pass on that, but you have to be blind partisan like these two or a blithering idiot to not notice large corporations get better treatment than small biz, and not every middle class guy sees his taxes go down, and even then at most we're talking a couple of thousand, while the .1% sees over a million per year, and the top 1% sees tens and hundreds of thousands.

And they're gonna try and sell this to people in PA who make 250K per year and will see their taxes go up?

 

[nat4900]

Dems passing a popular tax cut would help the Republicans?

YES....after all, trump would take FULL credit.......LOL

 

[bendog]

I can name thousands. Look up S-Corps, LLC's and such. Not all corporations are large. In fact the vast majority are actually small businesses that cant take advantage of the tax breaks and loopholes that the large corps use.

Did I or did I not directly address LARGE corporations??? Yes or No?

By the way this was your question that I was responding to.

"No one can really name a dozen or so corporations that actually DO pay the 35%, and that given all the loopholes ALSO included in our tax code, most corporation actually pay closer to 14% or even 0% in taxes."

Well, you see the issue. but if they pay nothing, why lower their taxes?

 

[StevenC]

the Gop plans to run on this as Trump's big accomplishment, but anyone who does not base opinions on preconceived notions and partisan bs knows this is pig, and it's a cut giving the very rich YUUUGE breaks and workers ... crumbs, and in some cases higher taxes. It seems to me that the gop is cutting its own throat, but many gop congress critters are owned by the rich, just as dems have their SJW. Trump is toxic and this should not play well in suburban districts.

The "best" way to summarize why this plan is a PIG, is the fact that the tax plan REVERTS the tax breaks for the middle class within a short term, while giving the tax breaks to corporations in PERPETUITY.

The Bush tax cuts were the same way. They were made permanent though. Maybe if the dems would stop being obstructionists we could get real tax reform. I would like to see them bring back Simson/Bowles plan.

 

[nat4900]

So only large corps benefit from the tax cuts?

YES.......because while corporation get 3/4 of a loaf of bread, they are telling their whores in the GOP congress that the middle class should be "happy" that they would be getting the remaining 1/4......AND, that in a few years even that 1/4 will be revoked.

 

[bendog]

the Gop plans to run on this as Trump's big accomplishment, but anyone who does not base opinions on preconceived notions and partisan bs knows this is pig, and it's a cut giving the very rich YUUUGE breaks and workers ... crumbs, and in some cases higher taxes. It seems to me that the gop is cutting its own throat, but many gop congress critters are owned by the rich, just as dems have their SJW. Trump is toxic and this should not play well in suburban districts.

The "best" way to summarize why this plan is a PIG, is the fact that the tax plan REVERTS the tax breaks for the middle class within a short term, while giving the tax breaks to corporations in PERPETUITY.

The Bush tax cuts were the same way. They were made permanent though. Maybe if the dems would stop being obstructionists we could get real tax reform. I would like to see them bring back Simson/Bowles plan.

You really think McConnell and Ryan want a piece of Simpson/bowles?

 

[StevenC]

I can name thousands. Look up S-Corps, LLC's and such. Not all corporations are large. In fact the vast majority are actually small businesses that cant take advantage of the tax breaks and loopholes that the large corps use.

Did I or did I not directly address LARGE corporations??? Yes or No?

By the way this was your question that I was responding to.

"No one can really name a dozen or so corporations that actually DO pay the 35%, and that given all the loopholes ALSO included in our tax code, most corporation actually pay closer to 14% or even 0% in taxes."

Well, you see the issue. but if they pay nothing, why lower their taxes?

Who pays nothing. The corp might get out of taxes but the owners pay.

So only large corps benefit from the tax cuts?

YES.......because while corporation get 3/4 of a loaf of bread, they are telling their whores in the GOP congress that the middle class should be "happy" that they would be getting the remaining 1/4......AND, that in a few years even that 1/4 will be revoked.

You are ignoring the small businesses that are incorporated.

 

[StevenC]

the Gop plans to run on this as Trump's big accomplishment, but anyone who does not base opinions on preconceived notions and partisan bs knows this is pig, and it's a cut giving the very rich YUUUGE breaks and workers ... crumbs, and in some cases higher taxes. It seems to me that the gop is cutting its own throat, but many gop congress critters are owned by the rich, just as dems have their SJW. Trump is toxic and this should not play well in suburban districts.

The "best" way to summarize why this plan is a PIG, is the fact that the tax plan REVERTS the tax breaks for the middle class within a short term, while giving the tax breaks to corporations in PERPETUITY.

The Bush tax cuts were the same way. They were made permanent though. Maybe if the dems would stop being obstructionists we could get real tax reform. I would like to see them bring back Simson/Bowles plan.

You really think McConnell and Ryan want a piece of Simpson/bowles?

Yes. It was Obama that sunk it.

 

[bendog]

I can name thousands. Look up S-Corps, LLC's and such. Not all corporations are large. In fact the vast majority are actually small businesses that cant take advantage of the tax breaks and loopholes that the large corps use.

Did I or did I not directly address LARGE corporations??? Yes or No?

By the way this was your question that I was responding to.

"No one can really name a dozen or so corporations that actually DO pay the 35%, and that given all the loopholes ALSO included in our tax code, most corporation actually pay closer to 14% or even 0% in taxes."

Well, you see the issue. but if they pay nothing, why lower their taxes?

Who pays nothing. The corp might get out of taxes but the owners pay.

So only large corps benefit from the tax cuts?

YES.......because while corporation get 3/4 of a loaf of bread, they are telling their whores in the GOP congress that the middle class should be "happy" that they would be getting the remaining 1/4......AND, that in a few years even that 1/4 will be revoked.

You are ignoring the small businesses that are incorporated.

YOU said in post 179. LOL
"
By the way this was your question that I was responding to.

"No one can really name a dozen or so corporations that actually DO pay the 35%, and that given all the loopholes ALSO included in our tax code, most corporation actually pay closer to 14% or even 0% in taxes."

 

[bendog]

the Gop plans to run on this as Trump's big accomplishment, but anyone who does not base opinions on preconceived notions and partisan bs knows this is pig, and it's a cut giving the very rich YUUUGE breaks and workers ... crumbs, and in some cases higher taxes. It seems to me that the gop is cutting its own throat, but many gop congress critters are owned by the rich, just as dems have their SJW. Trump is toxic and this should not play well in suburban districts.

The "best" way to summarize why this plan is a PIG, is the fact that the tax plan REVERTS the tax breaks for the middle class within a short term, while giving the tax breaks to corporations in PERPETUITY.

The Bush tax cuts were the same way. They were made permanent though. Maybe if the dems would stop being obstructionists we could get real tax reform. I would like to see them bring back Simson/Bowles plan.

You really think McConnell and Ryan want a piece of Simpson/bowles?

Yes. It was Obama that sunk it.

Dude you are nuts. Simply nuts. And I never voted for Obama or liked Obamacare.

Boehner couldn't get any revenue out of the House, and he resigned in frustration because he couldn't cut a deal. Even McConnell was willing to make some compromise.

 

[bendog]

I apologize Cellblock

 

[edthecynic]

The middle class, teachers unions, public and private unions own the corporations fool. Where do you think everyone has their retirement savings invested. Lowering the corporate tax puts more money in their pockets fact!

Nothing the Right says is a "fact" is ever a fact. Very few middle class have any significant amount of investments!

Wealth class Percent of all stock owned

Top 1% 33.5%

Next 19% 55.8%

Bottom 80% 10.7%

 

[edthecynic]

If this tax plan (the senate version) goes through, THIRTEEN MILLION people will lose health care coverage....Any guesses by you right wingers on how these folks will vote in 2018 and 2020?...................LOL

 

[edthecynic]

Corporations pass the cost of taxes and regulation on to the consumer you big Dope. Frankly I pay enough for stuff as it is. Maybe you want to pay more.

But, but, but the Right have been telling us that a consumption tax is the fairest of all taxes, they even renamed it "The Fair Tax." So since corporate taxes, as you pointed out, are de facto consumption taxes, then the fairest thing to do is replace all taxes with corporate taxes, then you won't even need a post card to do your taxes. What could be simpler????

 

[BluesLegend]

The middle class, teachers unions, public and private unions own the corporations fool. Where do you think everyone has their retirement savings invested. Lowering the corporate tax puts more money in their pockets fact!

Nothing the Right says is a "fact" is ever a fact. Very few middle class have any significant amount of investments!

Wealth class Percent of all stock owned

Top 1% 33.5%

Next 19% 55.8%

Bottom 80% 10.7%

You lie!

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

Great News. My company paid for my relocation. Happy now?

But will your "company" continue paying for your stay at the mental institution? LOL

If lowering taxes makes it cheaper for the corporation to stay where they are, as opposed to going to another State or nation that would be more expensive, what reason would that company have to leave? Do you have a clear answer for that Nat?

Come on, tell us what job is created by raising Federal taxes?

Employee salaries are a business expense. Say the corporation has a dollar in profit. If they want, they can spend that dollar on creating a new job. If not, well they can pay the tax on that dollar and keep the rest. The tax rate is thirty five percent. That means they can spend a dollar on a new job or keep sixty five cents. Now the tax rate is lowered. They can spend the dollar on a new job or they can keep eighty cents. The "opportunity cost" of creating a job instead of booking a profit INCREASES as the tax rate declines. Now, you want to tell me why corporations will create more jobs when the cost of doing so increases as the tax rate declines.

I mean this is some simple ass shit. Like the decline of our manufacturing base. Everyone wants to blame outsourcing, shifting jobs overseas. But it is not the "cause", it is just a symptom. The declining tax rate is the cause. In the early1950's the "effective corporate tax rate" was north of fifty percent. That means if a company saved a dollar by shifting production abroad they could only keep a little less than fifty cents. Now the EFFECTIVE corporate tax rate is closer to twenty percent. They save that dollar now they get to keep damn near eighty cents. Hell some companies, like say, GE, with an effective tax rate of less than three percent over the last decade, get to keep damn near the WHOLE DOLLAR. Now, it's one thing to close down a factory, layoff workers, implement a transpacific shipping arrangement, lose community and employee allegiance, and adopt a far flung supply chain to manage, if you only get to keep fifty cents on the dollar. It is quite another if you get to keep it all.

I mean I don't know where you people live, and I don't know where you work, but if you are looking it is damn easy to see the ramifications of this declining effective corporate tax rate. No companies invest in their people anymore, they attempt to steal them from somewhere else or they bitch and moan and look to the GOVERNMENT to fund their employees training, at say a community college. Sneak in to the backroom of your local Walmart. Check out the mops. Yeah, the damn mops. They are filled with grease, nasty as hell, because they can't even invest in a new mop-head. It's freakin comical. Companies look to cut corners at every turn, packaging sucks ass. The trucking fleets are comprised of dinosaurs that spew out toxic gases, break down constantly, and require an entire staff of mechanics to keep them going. Farmers don't own combines anymore, they RENT THEM.

In a nutshell, when corporate taxes are high companies are forced to look and plan for the long term. When they are low, they are encouraged to "cash out", to seek short term gains at the expense of long term growth. They are discouraged from investing in everything from people to mop-heads, and instead encouraged to take the money and run. Look the fawk around. It is precisely what is happening, precisely what has been happening, and cutting corporate tax rates further will only add gasoline to the fire that is already burning down this nation. Only a sheer fool would believe otherwise.

Ok let’s say the product is something similar to Ben and Jerry’s Ice Cream.

Raise the federal tax on where they are located in manufacturing the actual ice cream. Add the cost of where they get their ingredients from. What about packaging? Do they do that themselves? Add another shipment order expense from the company that produces your containers as well as their manufacturing expenses to produce those containers for you. That location also pays a Federal tax based on the number of containers they manufacture in trying to create a profit, before distributing that unto you.

Now there is the shipment cost to deliver your product, as well as in receiving your containers shipped to you. So do you choose a tractor trailer, or possibly refrigerated freight train, all that transportation adds to their Federal business tax in allowing their services to be used in shipping your product.

Now add tolls. What about fuel consumption? There are Federal taxes to be found there.

Would you like to utilize a refrigerated distribution warehouse in various parts of the country to help expedite shipping? Well now you are into storage fees, additional property taxes. Can’t afford to own the site? Well now you are paying a rental fee to utilize the facility. Add the cost of refrigerant and the costs associated with having it filled and the distribution center site maintained.

Do you need security on site to control theft? I’m sure you don’t own the security company. Let’s add another expense and their charge which includes what they pay in Federal Taxes (obviously they are not going to lose money and that owner wants to make some profit for his services to you as well).

Mandatory Federal Health Care for all employees? Well you just added another cost, obviously all these pre-mentioned services are not going to eat that expense either.

So now your product has made its way to be delivered to a supermarket or restaurant to sell. There is yet another business tax associated with each one of those locations and their property taxes. Don’t forget that sales taxes which gets passed to the consumer.

Now as each one of these various providers faces a Federal corporate tax increase in doing business, what happens to the price at each one of these services? What happens on the cost of the product when you finally see the sticker price on that supermarket shelf, as you go to open that freezer door?

You want to still tell me that raising Federal taxes helps to create jobs?

 

[nat4900]

You want to still tell me that raising Federal taxes helps to create jobs?

Who the fuck is talking about RAISING federal taxes???

 

[otto105]

So you are bitching about something that doesnt even matter, then?

Actually the statutory rate matters a lot. The effective rate is somewhere between 20-25% depending on want reductions are utilized.

A lower statutory rate would mean the effective rate would drop too. Which again, would push more business taxes to individual rate payers.

 

[otto105]

Great News. My company paid for my relocation. Happy now?

But will your "company" continue paying for your stay at the mental institution? LOL

If lowering taxes makes it cheaper for the corporation to stay where they are, as opposed to going to another State or nation that would be more expensive, what reason would that company have to leave? Do you have a clear answer for that Nat?

Come on, tell us what job is created by raising Federal taxes?

Employee salaries are a business expense. Say the corporation has a dollar in profit. If they want, they can spend that dollar on creating a new job. If not, well they can pay the tax on that dollar and keep the rest. The tax rate is thirty five percent. That means they can spend a dollar on a new job or keep sixty five cents. Now the tax rate is lowered. They can spend the dollar on a new job or they can keep eighty cents. The "opportunity cost" of creating a job instead of booking a profit INCREASES as the tax rate declines. Now, you want to tell me why corporations will create more jobs when the cost of doing so increases as the tax rate declines.

I mean this is some simple ass shit. Like the decline of our manufacturing base. Everyone wants to blame outsourcing, shifting jobs overseas. But it is not the "cause", it is just a symptom. The declining tax rate is the cause. In the early1950's the "effective corporate tax rate" was north of fifty percent. That means if a company saved a dollar by shifting production abroad they could only keep a little less than fifty cents. Now the EFFECTIVE corporate tax rate is closer to twenty percent. They save that dollar now they get to keep damn near eighty cents. Hell some companies, like say, GE, with an effective tax rate of less than three percent over the last decade, get to keep damn near the WHOLE DOLLAR. Now, it's one thing to close down a factory, layoff workers, implement a transpacific shipping arrangement, lose community and employee allegiance, and adopt a far flung supply chain to manage, if you only get to keep fifty cents on the dollar. It is quite another if you get to keep it all.

I mean I don't know where you people live, and I don't know where you work, but if you are looking it is damn easy to see the ramifications of this declining effective corporate tax rate. No companies invest in their people anymore, they attempt to steal them from somewhere else or they bitch and moan and look to the GOVERNMENT to fund their employees training, at say a community college. Sneak in to the backroom of your local Walmart. Check out the mops. Yeah, the damn mops. They are filled with grease, nasty as hell, because they can't even invest in a new mop-head. It's freakin comical. Companies look to cut corners at every turn, packaging sucks ass. The trucking fleets are comprised of dinosaurs that spew out toxic gases, break down constantly, and require an entire staff of mechanics to keep them going. Farmers don't own combines anymore, they RENT THEM.

In a nutshell, when corporate taxes are high companies are forced to look and plan for the long term. When they are low, they are encouraged to "cash out", to seek short term gains at the expense of long term growth. They are discouraged from investing in everything from people to mop-heads, and instead encouraged to take the money and run. Look the fawk around. It is precisely what is happening, precisely what has been happening, and cutting corporate tax rates further will only add gasoline to the fire that is already burning down this nation. Only a sheer fool would believe otherwise.

Ok let’s say the product is something similar to Ben and Jerry’s Ice Cream.

Raise the federal tax on where they are located in manufacturing the actual ice cream. Add the cost of where they get their ingredients from. What about packaging? Do they do that themselves? Add another shipment order expense from the company that produces your containers as well as their manufacturing expenses to produce those containers for you. That location also pays a Federal tax based on the number of containers they manufacture in trying to create a profit, before distributing that unto you.

Now there is the shipment cost to deliver your product, as well as in receiving your containers shipped to you. So do you choose a tractor trailer, or possibly refrigerated freight train, all that transportation adds to their Federal business tax in allowing their services to be used in shipping your product.

Now add tolls. What about fuel consumption? There are Federal taxes to be found there.

Would you like to utilize a refrigerated distribution warehouse in various parts of the country to help expedite shipping? Well now you are into storage fees, additional property taxes. Can’t afford to own the site? Well now you are paying a rental fee to utilize the facility. Add the cost of refrigerant and the costs associated with having it filled and the distribution center site maintained.

Do you need security on site to control theft? I’m sure you don’t own the security company. Let’s add another expense and their charge which includes what they pay in Federal Taxes (obviously they are not going to lose money and that owner wants to make some profit for his services to you as well).

Mandatory Federal Health Care for all employees? Well you just added another cost, obviously all these pre-mentioned services are not going to eat that expense either.

So now your product has made its way to be delivered to a supermarket or restaurant to sell. There is yet another business tax associated with each one of those locations and their property taxes. Don’t forget that sales taxes which gets passed to the consumer.

Now as each one of these various providers faces a Federal corporate tax increase in doing business, what happens to the price at each one of these services? What happens on the cost of the product when you finally see the sticker price on that supermarket shelf, as you go to open that freezer door?

You want to still tell me that raising Federal taxes helps to create jobs?

So in Kansas they lowered corporate taxes...

In 1993 President William Jefferson Clinton raised taxes on the rich and .....

 

[Cellblock2429]

Corporations pass the cost of taxes and regulation on to the consumer you big Dope. Frankly I pay enough for stuff as it is. Maybe you want to pay more.

But, but, but the Right have been telling us that a consumption tax is the fairest of all taxes, they even renamed it "The Fair Tax." So since corporate taxes, as you pointed out, are de facto consumption taxes, then the fairest thing to do is replace all taxes with corporate taxes, then you won't even need a post card to do your taxes. What could be simpler????

/----/ What Righties? I never supported a Consumption tax, we have those now. They're called tolls, permits, licenses and access fees. I do support throwing out the Tax Code and having a FLAT TAX.