Orlando and Gun Control: An Inconvenient Truth

[TemplarKormac]

That nightclub, you know the one Mateen attacked? It was packed with 300 healthy men/women. And nobody took him down. Nobody. Fifty people died instead. He was outnumbered three-hundred to one. Please, don't bother preaching to me about how much safer the world would be with gun control. Even though that club was a vaunted gun-free zone, people still died. It didn't stop a crazed Muslim "jihadi" from mowing people down with an "AR-15" or whatever weapon he used. This gun free zone lulled these poor people into a false sense of security. They soon found out how nonexistent that security was. That alone proves just how ineffectual gun free zones really are.

What if in fact they had been armed? What would have been better, a sign which gives the illusion of security, or a firearm at your side which gives certain security?

What do you think gun-free zones have accomplished? This isn't Star Trek, you can't just raise a forcefield and block crazed gunmen/terrorists from bringing their weapons into the building. It doesn't work that way. I'm sorry to say gun control liberals are too thickheaded to see that. All a gun free zone is, is three words on a sign. Words are meaningless. Signs are meaningless. Words were not going to stop that terrorist from killing people.

This is truly heartbreaking. Gun control liberals think gun-free zones will stop these atrocities from happening. Gun control liberals think gun control laws will stop these atrocities from happening. Right. This is like trying to stop a bomb blast with a piece of paper. In essence, that's all gun control laws and gun free zone signs are, just words written on a piece of paper.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Do you really think allowing concealed weapons into a nightclub full of drunks is a good idea?

I've worked as a nightclub bouncer, and I'd probably be dead if some of the people I've had to bounce had a gun on them.

 

[PredFan]

Do you really think allowing concealed weapons into a nightclub full of drunks is a good idea?

I've worked as a nightclub bouncer, and I'd probably be dead if some of the people I've had to bounce had a gun on them.

Yes. Do you think that in a crowd of 300+ people, there will be 300+ guns?

 

[The Irish Ram]

France has one of the strictest gun control agendas in the world, and they're getting served up for lunch by mass murderers. I want all the anti gun people to tell me what magic America will use to make gun bans work here. Because it doesn't work the way you wish it did anywhere else.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Do you really think allowing concealed weapons into a nightclub full of drunks is a good idea?

I've worked as a nightclub bouncer, and I'd probably be dead if some of the people I've had to bounce had a gun on them.

Yes. Do you think that in a crowd of 300+ people, there will be 300+ guns?

This post is a good example of the fantasy land that the true gun nuts live in.

I own guns - many of them. I like guns, I think they're a lot of fun. But I'm not completely deluded into think that guns are some magical solution to everything.

What if the owners of the club didn't want people to bring guns in? Should they have been forced to allow it?

People drink and take drugs at night clubs. Every night while working, I had to physically bounce many angry, violent, drunken clowns. Many of them threatened my life - and had some of them had a gun on them, I have no doubt that I would have been killed. I was stabbed twice.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

France has one of the strictest gun control agendas in the world, and they're getting served up for lunch by mass murderers. I want all the anti gun people to tell me what magic America will use to make gun bans work here. Because it doesn't work the way you wish it did anywhere else.

No one is talking about "gun bans" in this thread.

 

[PredFan]

That nightclub, you know the one Mateen attacked? It was packed with 300 healthy men/women. And nobody took him down. Nobody. Fifty people died instead. He was outnumbered three-hundred to one. Please, don't bother preaching to me about how much safer the world would be with gun control. Even though that club was a vaunted gun-free zone, people still died. It didn't stop a crazed Muslim "jihadi" from mowing people down with an "AR-15" or whatever weapon he used. This gun free zone lulled these poor people into a false sense of security. They soon found out how nonexistent that security was. That alone proves just how ineffectual gun free zones really are.

What if in fact they had been armed? What would have been better, a sign which gives the illusion of security, or a firearm at your side which gives certain security?

What do you think gun-free zones have accomplished? This isn't Star Trek, you can't just raise a forcefield and block crazed gunmen/terrorists from bringing their weapons into the building. It doesn't work that way. I'm sorry to say gun control liberals are too thickheaded to see that. All a gun free zone is, is three words on a sign. Words are meaningless. Signs are meaningless. Words were not going to stop that terrorist from killing people.

This is truly heartbreaking. Gun control liberals think gun-free zones will stop atrocities from happening. Gun control liberals thing gun control laws will stop atrocities from happening. Right. This is like trying to stop a bomb blast with a piece of paper. In essence, that's all gun control laws are, just words written on a piece of paper, just like a gun-free zone sign.

As this thread moves along, some idiot lefty will try to say that guns in that bar would have resulted in more injuries from CCW holders shooting wildly about.

Being liberals, their faulty minds operate on a narrow plane did crated by their leaders.

The answer to that lunacy is to point out to them that he wouldn't have attacked that bar had he known that there would be at least a few patrons who were packing. Lunatics and Islamic Terrorists attack gun free zones for that reason. Their poorly thought out scenario would not have happened.

 

[tinydancer]

I've had enough bands in enough bars in my lifetime to understand that a gun free zone is a damn good idea. One yahoo coked and boozed up with a gun not liking someone bumping into him on the dance floor or worse yet not liking a song my band was playing could turn into a nightmare very quickly.

BUT I think clubs, theaters or where ever you have a gun free zone, it is incumbent sp? on the establishment to provide well trained and well armed security for their patrons.

ETA: Mandatory metal detectors is worth a look as well.

 

[PredFan]

Do you really think allowing concealed weapons into a nightclub full of drunks is a good idea?

I've worked as a nightclub bouncer, and I'd probably be dead if some of the people I've had to bounce had a gun on them.

Yes. Do you think that in a crowd of 300+ people, there will be 300+ guns?

This post is a good example of the fantasy land that the true gun nuts live in.

I own guns - many of them. I like guns, I think they're a lot of fun. But I'm not completely deluded into think that guns are some magical solution to everything.

What if the owners of the club didn't want people to bring guns in? Should they have been forced to allow it?

People drink and take drugs at night clubs. Every night while working, I had to physically bounce many angry, violent, drunken clowns. Many of them threatened my life - and had some of them had a gun on them, I have no doubt that I would have been killed. I was stabbed twice.

What fantasy world are you babbling about? I asked a question.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Do you really think allowing concealed weapons into a nightclub full of drunks is a good idea?

I've worked as a nightclub bouncer, and I'd probably be dead if some of the people I've had to bounce had a gun on them.

Yes. Do you think that in a crowd of 300+ people, there will be 300+ guns?

This post is a good example of the fantasy land that the true gun nuts live in.

I own guns - many of them. I like guns, I think they're a lot of fun. But I'm not completely deluded into think that guns are some magical solution to everything.

What if the owners of the club didn't want people to bring guns in? Should they have been forced to allow it?

People drink and take drugs at night clubs. Every night while working, I had to physically bounce many angry, violent, drunken clowns. Many of them threatened my life - and had some of them had a gun on them, I have no doubt that I would have been killed. I was stabbed twice.

What fantasy world are you babbling about? I asked a question.

The fantasy world in which allowing people to bring guns to into nightclubs is a "good idea".

Your question is irrelevant to my point, which is why I ignored it. It only takes one drunk, coked-up clown with a gun to put bodies on the floor for scuffing his shoes.

 

[tinydancer]

One thing that really bothers me is the total lack of preparedness by the club. This is after Paris. Establishments better start getting their shit wired tight. It's the world we live in now.

 

[PredFan]

I've had enough bands in enough bars in my lifetime to understand that a gun free zone is a damn good idea. One yahoo coked and boozed up with a gun not liking someone bumping into him on the dance floor or worse yet not liking a song my band was playing could turn into a nightmare very quickly.

BUT I think clubs, theaters or where ever you have a gun free zone, it is incumbent sp? on the establishment to provide well trained and well armed security for their patrons.

ETA: Mandatory metal detectors is worth a look as well.

Here is the problem that you and the doctor are having: do you think a coked up and boozed up yahoo is going to have a CCW permit? Do you think a cokes up, boozed up yahoo is going to care about a law against carrying a gun into a bar?

 

[Hossfly]

Think about this. People who don't drink don't normally go to bars. People with CC license are not allowed to carry where alcohol is dispensed in most states. North Carolina just recently changed the law and you can carry in a bar, however you aren't allowed to drink. In either case you can lose your CC license if you break the rule.

 

[PredFan]

Do you really think allowing concealed weapons into a nightclub full of drunks is a good idea?

I've worked as a nightclub bouncer, and I'd probably be dead if some of the people I've had to bounce had a gun on them.

Yes. Do you think that in a crowd of 300+ people, there will be 300+ guns?

This post is a good example of the fantasy land that the true gun nuts live in.

I own guns - many of them. I like guns, I think they're a lot of fun. But I'm not completely deluded into think that guns are some magical solution to everything.

What if the owners of the club didn't want people to bring guns in? Should they have been forced to allow it?

People drink and take drugs at night clubs. Every night while working, I had to physically bounce many angry, violent, drunken clowns. Many of them threatened my life - and had some of them had a gun on them, I have no doubt that I would have been killed. I was stabbed twice.

What fantasy world are you babbling about? I asked a question.

The fantasy world in which allowing people to bring guns to into nightclubs is a "good idea".

Your question is irrelevant to my point, which is why I ignored it. It only takes one drunk, coked-up clown with a gun to put bodies on the floor for scuffing his shoes.

Perhaps you had a reason to ignore it, but to create a strawman from it was unnecessary and ridiculous.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

I've had enough bands in enough bars in my lifetime to understand that a gun free zone is a damn good idea. One yahoo coked and boozed up with a gun not liking someone bumping into him on the dance floor or worse yet not liking a song my band was playing could turn into a nightmare very quickly.

BUT I think clubs, theaters or where ever you have a gun free zone, it is incumbent sp? on the establishment to provide well trained and well armed security for their patrons.

ETA: Mandatory metal detectors is worth a look as well.

Here is the problem that you and the doctor are having: do you think a coked up and boozed up yahoo is going to have a CCW permit? Do you think a cokes up, boozed up yahoo is going to care about a law against carrying a gun into a bar?

I have a CCW permit, and I've been known to get drunk and partake in various substances from time to time. Are you under the impression that every CCW holder in this country is a teetotaler?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Do you really think allowing concealed weapons into a nightclub full of drunks is a good idea?

I've worked as a nightclub bouncer, and I'd probably be dead if some of the people I've had to bounce had a gun on them.

Yes. Do you think that in a crowd of 300+ people, there will be 300+ guns?

This post is a good example of the fantasy land that the true gun nuts live in.

I own guns - many of them. I like guns, I think they're a lot of fun. But I'm not completely deluded into think that guns are some magical solution to everything.

What if the owners of the club didn't want people to bring guns in? Should they have been forced to allow it?

People drink and take drugs at night clubs. Every night while working, I had to physically bounce many angry, violent, drunken clowns. Many of them threatened my life - and had some of them had a gun on them, I have no doubt that I would have been killed. I was stabbed twice.

What fantasy world are you babbling about? I asked a question.

The fantasy world in which allowing people to bring guns to into nightclubs is a "good idea".

Your question is irrelevant to my point, which is why I ignored it. It only takes one drunk, coked-up clown with a gun to put bodies on the floor for scuffing his shoes.

Perhaps you had a reason to ignore it, but to create a strawman from it was unnecessary and ridiculous.

What "strawman" are you referring to?

You did say you thought it was a good idea.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Think about this. People who don't drink don't normally go to bars. People with CC license are not allowed to carry where alcohol is dispensed in most states. North Carolina just recently changed the law and you can carry in a bar, however you aren't allowed to drink. In either case you can lose your CC license if you break the rule.

Yes, that's what we're discussing. Do you agree or disagree with those laws?

 

[PredFan]

I've had enough bands in enough bars in my lifetime to understand that a gun free zone is a damn good idea. One yahoo coked and boozed up with a gun not liking someone bumping into him on the dance floor or worse yet not liking a song my band was playing could turn into a nightmare very quickly.

BUT I think clubs, theaters or where ever you have a gun free zone, it is incumbent sp? on the establishment to provide well trained and well armed security for their patrons.

ETA: Mandatory metal detectors is worth a look as well.

Here is the problem that you and the doctor are having: do you think a coked up and boozed up yahoo is going to have a CCW permit? Do you think a cokes up, boozed up yahoo is going to care about a law against carrying a gun into a bar?

I have a CCW permit, and I've been known to get drunk and partake in various substances from time to time. Are you under the impression that every CCW holder in this country is a teetotaler?

Just stop. Do you carry your weapon while doing this?

Stop spinning, sometimes you win sometimes you lose. Don't be childish about it.

 

[Papageorgio]

Do you really think allowing concealed weapons into a nightclub full of drunks is a good idea?

I've worked as a nightclub bouncer, and I'd probably be dead if some of the people I've had to bounce had a gun on them.

You honestly believe you kept all the guns out?

 

[Hossfly]

Think about this. People who don't drink don't normally go to bars. People with CC license are not allowed to carry where alcohol is dispensed in most states. North Carolina just recently changed the law and you can carry in a bar, however you aren't allowed to drink. In either case you can lose your CC license if you break the rule.

Yes, that's what we're discussing. Do you agree or disagree with those laws?

I agree with those laws. A bar that size should have armed bouncers. I was in the Atlanta Hard Rock Cafe recently and I noticed a couple bouncers with hand cuffs and concealed weapons.