Orlando and Gun Control: An Inconvenient Truth

[theDoctorisIn]

My deal is simple. If you as an establishment owner or a government establishment and you have a gun free zone, you must have well trained and well armed security to protect your patrons.

And make it very public that your establishment has hired guns. That would at least make certain whackos more apprehensive of choosing a gun free zone to commit murder or a terrorist act.

You think that should be a law?

 

[DarkFury]

Do you really think allowing concealed weapons into a nightclub full of drunks is a good idea?

I've worked as a nightclub bouncer, and I'd probably be dead if some of the people I've had to bounce had a gun on them.

How about letting the bouncers have guns?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Do you really think allowing concealed weapons into a nightclub full of drunks is a good idea?

I've worked as a nightclub bouncer, and I'd probably be dead if some of the people I've had to bounce had a gun on them.

How about letting the bouncers have guns?

I explained why that's a staggeringly terrible idea in my previous post:

No, absolutely not. I wouldn't have carried a gun as a bouncer, even if I was allowed to.

A bouncer's job is to physically remove people who are causing trouble from a bar, not to shoot them. If I'm breaking up a fight, I need my hands to hold people and drag them out - I can't control any weapon I'd be carrying. That's just asking someone else to grab the gun.

 

[TemplarKormac]

A bouncer's job is to physically remove people who are causing trouble from a bar, not to shoot them.

You assume all your interactions would have been physical in nature. That's a bit presumptive.

If I'm breaking up a fight, I need my hands to hold people and drag them out - I can't control any weapon I'd be carrying.

The whole idea is having the weapon serve as a "nuclear deterrent" so to speak. Just on a side note, were you trained in any type of martial arts? There are types that involve disarming techniques.

 

[TemplarKormac]

But I'm not completely deluded into think that guns are some magical solution to everything.

So what is, then?

Some problems don't have solutions.

That's interesting. So you think neither gun control nor carrying a gun will provide a solution to the problem?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

A bouncer's job is to physically remove people who are causing trouble from a bar, not to shoot them.

You assume all your interactions would have physical in nature. That's a bit presumptive.

The job is physical, and I did the job. It's not an "assumption".

If you're saying that I should bounce people or break up fights by pulling a gun on them - do you really think that's a good idea?

If I'm breaking up a fight, I need my hands to hold people and drag them out - I can't control any weapon I'd be carrying.

The whole idea is having the weapon serve as a "nuclear deterrent" so to speak. Just on a side note, were you trained in any type of martial arts? There are types that involve disarming techniques.[/QUOTE]

I have minimal martial arts training - a couple of years of BJJ. But I'm a really big guy.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

But I'm not completely deluded into think that guns are some magical solution to everything.

So what is, then?

Some problems don't have solutions.

That's interesting. So you think neither gun control nor carrying a gun will provide a solution to the problem?

That's basically what I'm saying.

 

[DarkFury]

Do you really think allowing concealed weapons into a nightclub full of drunks is a good idea?

I've worked as a nightclub bouncer, and I'd probably be dead if some of the people I've had to bounce had a gun on them.

How about letting the bouncers have guns?

I explained why that's a staggeringly terrible idea in my previous post:

No, absolutely not. I wouldn't have carried a gun as a bouncer, even if I was allowed to.

A bouncer's job is to physically remove people who are causing trouble from a bar, not to shoot them. If I'm breaking up a fight, I need my hands to hold people and drag them out - I can't control any weapon I'd be carrying. That's just asking someone else to grab the gun.

With a gathering of 300 I would run at the very least 3 bouncers but would prefer 5. One armed, So that gives you 4 to fight and one to settle the big shit.

If you refused to prepare you die as shown by example of Orlando. Somebody should have been armed.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Do you really think allowing concealed weapons into a nightclub full of drunks is a good idea?

I've worked as a nightclub bouncer, and I'd probably be dead if some of the people I've had to bounce had a gun on them.

How about letting the bouncers have guns?

I explained why that's a staggeringly terrible idea in my previous post:

No, absolutely not. I wouldn't have carried a gun as a bouncer, even if I was allowed to.

A bouncer's job is to physically remove people who are causing trouble from a bar, not to shoot them. If I'm breaking up a fight, I need my hands to hold people and drag them out - I can't control any weapon I'd be carrying. That's just asking someone else to grab the gun.

With a gathering of 300 I would run at the very least 3 bouncers but would prefer 5. One armed, So that gives you 4 to fight and one to settle the big shit.

If you refused to prepare you die as shown by example of Orlando. Somebody should have been armed.

That is essentially how most larger clubs do it.

As far as I understand, there was an armed security guard at Pulse. I think he was an off-duty cop.

 

[TemplarKormac]

If you're saying that I should bounce people or break up fights by pulling a gun on them - do you really think that's a good idea?

No, I'm not. There will always be a physical aspect to that line of work. Then there would also be those who have weapons on them. How would you deal with them? I'm not saying do away with the physical aspect at all.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Do you really think allowing concealed weapons into a nightclub full of drunks is a good idea?

I've worked as a nightclub bouncer, and I'd probably be dead if some of the people I've had to bounce had a gun on them.

How about letting the bouncers have guns?

I explained why that's a staggeringly terrible idea in my previous post:

No, absolutely not. I wouldn't have carried a gun as a bouncer, even if I was allowed to.

A bouncer's job is to physically remove people who are causing trouble from a bar, not to shoot them. If I'm breaking up a fight, I need my hands to hold people and drag them out - I can't control any weapon I'd be carrying. That's just asking someone else to grab the gun.

With a gathering of 300 I would run at the very least 3 bouncers but would prefer 5. One armed, So that gives you 4 to fight and one to settle the big shit.

If you refused to prepare you die as shown by example of Orlando. Somebody should have been armed.

That is essentially how most larger clubs do it.

As far as I understand, there was an armed security guard at Pulse. I think he was an off-duty cop.

Just one? That's it?

 

[TemplarKormac]

But I'm not completely deluded into think that guns are some magical solution to everything.

So what is, then?

Some problems don't have solutions.

That's interesting. So you think neither gun control nor carrying a gun will provide a solution to the problem?

That's basically what I'm saying.

I find that hard to believe. I refuse to believe there is no solution to this kind of problem.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

If you're saying that I should bounce people or break up fights by pulling a gun on them - do you really think that's a good idea?

No, I'm not. There will always be a physical aspect to that line of work. Then there would be those who have weapons on them. How would you deal with that? I'm not saying do away with the physical aspect at all.

Any club that I've ever heard of at least pats down everyone going in, if not runs everyone through a metal detector. There's almost always one or two armed security by the door to "enforce" the pat downs. That way, the bouncers inside don't have to worry about people carrying guns on the dance floor.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Do you really think allowing concealed weapons into a nightclub full of drunks is a good idea?

I've worked as a nightclub bouncer, and I'd probably be dead if some of the people I've had to bounce had a gun on them.

How about letting the bouncers have guns?

I explained why that's a staggeringly terrible idea in my previous post:

No, absolutely not. I wouldn't have carried a gun as a bouncer, even if I was allowed to.

A bouncer's job is to physically remove people who are causing trouble from a bar, not to shoot them. If I'm breaking up a fight, I need my hands to hold people and drag them out - I can't control any weapon I'd be carrying. That's just asking someone else to grab the gun.

With a gathering of 300 I would run at the very least 3 bouncers but would prefer 5. One armed, So that gives you 4 to fight and one to settle the big shit.

If you refused to prepare you die as shown by example of Orlando. Somebody should have been armed.

That is essentially how most larger clubs do it.

As far as I understand, there was an armed security guard at Pulse. I think he was an off-duty cop.

Just one? That's it?

Yeah. One armed security guard, at the door. That's pretty normal for a club.

 

[TemplarKormac]

I have minimal martial arts training - a couple of years of BJJ. But I'm a really big guy.

Interesting.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

But I'm not completely deluded into think that guns are some magical solution to everything.

So what is, then?

Some problems don't have solutions.

That's interesting. So you think neither gun control nor carrying a gun will provide a solution to the problem?

That's basically what I'm saying.

I find that hard to believe. I refuse to believe there is no solution to this kind of problem.

The only "solutions" to the incredibly rare "problem" of active shooters in nightclubs would themselves cause significantly worse problems

 

[TemplarKormac]

If you're saying that I should bounce people or break up fights by pulling a gun on them - do you really think that's a good idea?

No, I'm not. There will always be a physical aspect to that line of work. Then there would be those who have weapons on them. How would you deal with that? I'm not saying do away with the physical aspect at all.

Any club that I've ever heard of at least pats down everyone going in, if not runs everyone through a metal detector. There's almost always one or two armed security by the door to "enforce" the pat downs. That way, the bouncers inside don't have to worry about people carrying guns on the dance floor.

Of course, you have ways to deal with people after they get in. But there would be cases where someone would try to force their way in. What then?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

I have minimal martial arts training - a couple of years of BJJ. But I'm a really big guy.

Interesting.

I'm still a white belt.

 

[TemplarKormac]

How about letting the bouncers have guns?

I explained why that's a staggeringly terrible idea in my previous post:

No, absolutely not. I wouldn't have carried a gun as a bouncer, even if I was allowed to.

A bouncer's job is to physically remove people who are causing trouble from a bar, not to shoot them. If I'm breaking up a fight, I need my hands to hold people and drag them out - I can't control any weapon I'd be carrying. That's just asking someone else to grab the gun.

With a gathering of 300 I would run at the very least 3 bouncers but would prefer 5. One armed, So that gives you 4 to fight and one to settle the big shit.

If you refused to prepare you die as shown by example of Orlando. Somebody should have been armed.

That is essentially how most larger clubs do it.

As far as I understand, there was an armed security guard at Pulse. I think he was an off-duty cop.

Just one? That's it?

Yeah. One armed security guard, at the door. That's pretty normal for a club.

Perhaps that policy needs to change. Make room on the payroll. More than one armed bouncer needs to be present. A minimum of five at least, as you said. Especially for a club as large as Pulse was.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

If you're saying that I should bounce people or break up fights by pulling a gun on them - do you really think that's a good idea?

No, I'm not. There will always be a physical aspect to that line of work. Then there would be those who have weapons on them. How would you deal with that? I'm not saying do away with the physical aspect at all.

Any club that I've ever heard of at least pats down everyone going in, if not runs everyone through a metal detector. There's almost always one or two armed security by the door to "enforce" the pat downs. That way, the bouncers inside don't have to worry about people carrying guns on the dance floor.

Of course, you have ways to deal with people after they get in. But there would be cases where someone would try to force their way in. What then?

Then you do the best you can. You're describing an incredibly rare situation.