Palestinian Statehood...

[RoccoR]

pbel, et al,

I'll try.

Can you define un-apportioned territory for us?

(COMMENT)

Originally, the two major mandates, one British and one French, were apportioned (the division and allocation of something among different people or groups) trusteeships approved and divided by the Allied Powers. In the regional case under discussion, the territories were relinquished in Part III, Section VII, of the Treaty of Sevres; and separated from the former Empire under Part III, Section XIII, wherein Turkey (successor nation to the Empire) renounces formally all rights of suzerainty or jurisdiction to the Allied Powers.

Within the French Mandate, the territory was further divided with apportionments (totaling 100% of the Mandate) to the States of Lebanon and Syria; once just known as the territory of Syria. In the British Mandate about 77% of the territory was "apportioned" to be known as Trans-Jordan (everything east of the Jordan River until the borders for the Mandate of Mesopotamia, below Syria, above Arabia). The remaining 23% was, until the acceptance of the recommendation by the UN Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP), "unapportioned."

When Jewish People exercised their right to self-determination and the, about 55% of the remaining 23% territory was apportioned to the Jewish State (Israel) under the the UNSCOP Partition Plan [GA/RES/181(II)]. That left about 10.6% of the original mandate apportioned to another Arab State, but declined by the Arab Higher Committee. Thus "unapportioned" and ungoverned under the Arab Peoples right of self-determination until 1988 when the PLO declared independence under the the UNSCOP Partition Plan [GA/RES/181(II)].

(W)ho apportions it?

(COMMENT)

At the time, the UN Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP) made the recommendation which was then approved by the General Assembly [GA/RES/181(II)]; as modified by the cumulative outcomes of failed Arab military misadventures resulting in the 1949 Armistice Lines, as further modified by follow-on conflicts and treaties with the States of Egypt and Jordan.

• The Jewish State portion was accepted by the Jewish Agency in 1948. However, three subsequence wars altered the actual original boundaries.
• The Arab State portion (as modified by the Armistice Lines of 1949) was accepted by the Palestinians in 1988.

This was a re-apportionment based on the cumulative outcomes of hostilities, which essentially left a reduced Gaza Strip and a trimmed West Bank; and as recognized by the boundaries set in the treaties.

This is basically how I see it without going into great detail.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Billo_Really]

Billo_Really, et al,

I thought you knew. The Palestinians have their own state.

If Israeli's are allowed to have their state, it's only fair that the Pals are allowed to have theirs.

(COMMENT)

Or is that something you don't acknowledge either.

The General Assembly,

Having considered the item entitled "Question of Palestine",

Recalling its resolution 181 (II) of 29 November 1947, in which, inter alia, it called for the establishment of an Arab State and a Jewish State in Palestine,

Mindful of the special responsibility of the United Nations to achieve a just solution to the question of Palestine,

Aware of the proclamation of the State of Palestine by the Palestine National Council in line with General Assembly resolution 181 (II) and in exercise of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people,

Affirming the urgent need to achieve a just and comprehensive settlement in the Middle East which, inter alia, provides for peaceful coexistence for all States in the region,

Recalling its resolution 3237 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974 on the observer status for the Palestine Liberation Organization and subsequent relevant resolutions,

1. Acknowledges the proclamation of the State of Palestine by the Palestine National Council on 15 November 1988;

2. Affirms the need to enable the Palestinian people to exercise their sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967;

3. Decides that, effective as of 15 December 1988, the designation "Palestine" should be used in place of the designation "Palestine Liberation Organization" in the United Nations system, without prejudice to the observer status and functions of the Palestine Liberation Organization within the United Nations system, in conformity with relevant United Nations resolutions and practice;

4. Requests the Secretary-General to take the necessary action to implement the present resolution.

SOURCE: A/RES/43/177 15 December 1988

Oh yes, I forgot, you don't recognize GA Resolution 181(II), so it can't be so.

Please disregard.

Most Respectfully,
R

I recognize 181 was merely a "recommendation" and carry's no legal weight whatsoever.

I also recognize Zionists stood up in 1948 and declared themselves a sovereign nation in an area where they only owned 7% of the land.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Rocco,

What makes the 1988 Palestinian declaration more valid than its 1948 declaration?

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yeah, that was an attempt by the Arab Higher Committee at subterfuge.

Rocco,
What makes the 1988 Palestinian declaration more valid than its 1948 declaration?

(COMMENT)

The 1948 Declaration was three months after the Jewish Declaration of Independence.

• It was late, after the fact.
• It was attempting to declare Independence over the same territory as the Jewish Agency.
• It was absent participation in the implementation process.
• It did not follow the established steps prepartory to independence.

It was an attempt to defy the UN General Assembly. Even the Arab League recognized it for what it was and retired the Arab Higher Committee that did it; only to reconstitute the Committee later under new management.

The 1988 Declaration was pursuant to the Partition Plan and the Resolution.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[High_Gravity]

There is no doubt that the Peace talks have failed...The next step will be the UN approval of full membership of a Palestinian State to the 67 borders by the UN with a US approval or abstention in the Security Council...

Israeli Sanctions will follow.

Settlement spat looms over Kerry Mideast peace push

Jerusalem (AFP) - Secretary of State John Kerry headed for talks with Jordan's king Thursday after reaffirming US opposition to Israeli settlements, as the contentious issue threatens to derail the peace process.




Related Stories


Palestinians: No talks with Israel while settlement grows AFP
Kerry in Jordan as settlement spat imperils Mideast peace push AFP
Kerry seeks movement in Israeli, Palestinian talks Associated Press
Kerry scrambles to save Israeli, Palestinian talks Associated Press
Kerry seeks to rescue Israeli-Palestinian peace process AFP

The top US diplomat is due in Amman for a meeting with King Abdullah, before once again holding talks with Palestinian president Mahmud Abbas, this time in the Jordanian capital.

Kerry has single-mindedly fought to get the Israeli-Palestinian peace negotiations back on track despite recriminations on both sides.

During marathon talks on Wednesday, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu denounced the Palestinians for threatening to leave the talks over Israel's continued settlement construction on land they want for their future state.

So if a Palestinian state is formed, what than? they'll just sit around and bitch about Israell all day like you. You should thank God for Israel what would people like you and Sherri bitch about all day?

 

[RoccoR]

Billo_Really, et al,

Many people are of a like mind. It doesn't make it so.

Billo_Really, et al,

I thought you knew. The Palestinians have their own state.

If Israeli's are allowed to have their state, it's only fair that the Pals are allowed to have theirs.

(COMMENT)

Or is that something you don't acknowledge either.

The General Assembly,

Having considered the item entitled "Question of Palestine",

Recalling its resolution 181 (II) of 29 November 1947, in which, inter alia, it called for the establishment of an Arab State and a Jewish State in Palestine,

Mindful of the special responsibility of the United Nations to achieve a just solution to the question of Palestine,

Aware of the proclamation of the State of Palestine by the Palestine National Council in line with General Assembly resolution 181 (II) and in exercise of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people,

Affirming the urgent need to achieve a just and comprehensive settlement in the Middle East which, inter alia, provides for peaceful coexistence for all States in the region,

Recalling its resolution 3237 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974 on the observer status for the Palestine Liberation Organization and subsequent relevant resolutions,

1. Acknowledges the proclamation of the State of Palestine by the Palestine National Council on 15 November 1988;

2. Affirms the need to enable the Palestinian people to exercise their sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967;

3. Decides that, effective as of 15 December 1988, the designation "Palestine" should be used in place of the designation "Palestine Liberation Organization" in the United Nations system, without prejudice to the observer status and functions of the Palestine Liberation Organization within the United Nations system, in conformity with relevant United Nations resolutions and practice;

4. Requests the Secretary-General to take the necessary action to implement the present resolution.

SOURCE: A/RES/43/177 15 December 1988

Oh yes, I forgot, you don't recognize GA Resolution 181(II), so it can't be so.

Please disregard.

Most Respectfully,
R

I recognize 181 was merely a "recommendation" and carry's no legal weight whatsoever.

I also recognize Zionists stood up in 1948 and declared themselves a sovereign nation in an area where they only owned 7% of the land.

(COMMENT)

Here again, is the faulty association between land ownership and sovereignty.

Believe what you will. It doesn't make you right. But remember, when the Resolution was used by the Palestinians, it was effect.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yeah, that was an attempt by the Arab Higher Committee at subterfuge.

Rocco,
What makes the 1988 Palestinian declaration more valid than its 1948 declaration?

(COMMENT)

The 1948 Declaration was three months after the Jewish Declaration of Independence.

There are, however some glaring differences between the two declarations.

Israel was declared by foreigners on Palestinian land inside Palestine's borders with the exclusion of as many natives as possible.

Palestine was declared by Palestinians on Palestinian land inside Palestine's borders with the inclusion of all of the natives. Palestine did not encroach on anyone else's territory.

• It was late, after the fact.
• It was attempting to declare Independence over the same territory as the Jewish Agency.
• It was absent participation in the implementation process.
• It did not follow the established steps prepartory to independence.

It was an attempt to defy the UN General Assembly. Even the Arab League recognized it for what it was and retired the Arab Higher Committee that did it; only to reconstitute the Committee later under new management.

The 1988 Declaration was pursuant to the Partition Plan and the Resolution.

What does this mean and why do you mention it?

Israel mentioned resolution 181 but it did not comply with its precepts. Israel's declaration was unilateral and had nothing to do with the UN.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Roudy]

I don't see the Palestinian people expressing a desire to create a new Palestinian state.

You hit the nail on the head, Tinmore. They're more interested in destroying Israel than creating a new Palestinian state.

For Palestine to be restored, Israel must be erased as a nation state.

The nation of Palestine never existed for it to be "restored".

 

[Billo_Really]

Billo_Really, et al,

Many people are of a like mind. It doesn't make it so.

Billo_Really, et al,

I thought you knew. The Palestinians have their own state.


(COMMENT)

Or is that something you don't acknowledge either.



Oh yes, I forgot, you don't recognize GA Resolution 181(II), so it can't be so.

Please disregard.

Most Respectfully,
R

I recognize 181 was merely a "recommendation" and carry's no legal weight whatsoever.

I also recognize Zionists stood up in 1948 and declared themselves a sovereign nation in an area where they only owned 7% of the land.

(COMMENT)

Here again, is the faulty association between land ownership and sovereignty.

Believe what you will. It doesn't make you right. But remember, when the Resolution was used by the Palestinians, it was effect.

Most Respectfully,
R

You can't move into an area and automatically have more rights than the people already living there.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I think you missed some key factors.

• It was late, after the fact.
• It was attempting to declare Independence over the same territory as the Jewish Agency.
• It was absent participation in the implementation process.
• It did not follow the established steps prepartory to independence.

It was an attempt to defy the UN General Assembly. Even the Arab League recognized it for what it was and retired the Arab Higher Committee that did it; only to reconstitute the Committee later under new management.

The 1988 Declaration was pursuant to the Partition Plan and the Resolution.

What does this mean and why do you mention it?

Israel mentioned resolution 181 but it did not comply with its precepts. Israel's declaration was unilateral and had nothing to do with the UN.

(COMMENT)

The Declaration of Independence of 15 May 1948, was announced by diplomatic cable. You are correct to a point. The implementation process required the cooperation with and the coordination of the UN Palestine Commission. The UNPC held a number of coordination meetings for which the Jewish Agency participated in all, and the Arab Higher Committee participated in none. The Jewish Declaration notice and request for recognition was made in the UNPC Meeting of the 14th, with the coordination cable sent on midnight 14/15 May which, in part, it says:

JEWISH BODIES PALESTINE WHICH HAD APPLIED TO UNITED NATIONS PALESTINE COMMISSION FOR RECOGNITION AS PROVISIONAL COUNCIL GOVERNMENT UNDER PART ONE B FOUR OF RESOLUTION OF GENERAL ASSEMBLY ON NOVEMBER 29TH 1947 MET YESTERDAY MAY 14TH AND ISSUED PROCLAMATION DECLARING FOLLOWING “ON NOVEMBER 29 1947 GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF UNITED NATIONS ADOPTED RESOLUTION FOR ESTABLISHMENT OF INDEPENDENT JEWISH STATE IN PALESTINE AND CALLED UPON INHABITANTS OF COUNTRY TO TAKE SUCH STEPS AS MAY BE NECESSARY ON THEIR PART TO PUT THE PLAN INTO EFFECT.

4. The Commission, after consultation with the democratic parties and other public organizations of The Arab and Jewish States, shall select and establish in each State as rapidly as possible a Provisional Council of Government. The activities of both the Arab and Jewish Provisional Councils of Government shall be carried out under the general direction of the Commission.

If by 1 April 1948 a Provisional Council of Government cannot be selected for either of the States, or, if selected, cannot carry out its functions, the Commission shall communicate that fact to the Security Council for such action with respect to that State as the Security Council may deem proper, and to the Secretary-General for communication to the Members of the United Nations.

During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."

INSERT NOTE: Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) was the Chairman of the UN Palestine Commission.

SOURCE: PAL/169 17 May 1948

SOURCE: A/RES/181(II) 29 November 1947

SOURCE: S/747 16 May 1948

Yes, the People have to Declare Independence on their own, but it can be made easier with the coordination with the UN. In the case of Israel, GA/RES/181(II) was implemented by the UN Security Council through the UNPC. You will notice that the cable further states that:

STATE OF ISRAEL WILL BE READY COOPERATE WITH ORGANS AND REPRESENTATIVES OF UNITED NATIONS IN IMPLEMENTATION OF RESOLUTION OF ASSEMBLY OF NOVEMBER 29 1947 AND WILL TAKE STEPS TO BRING ABOUT ECONOMIC UNION OVER WHOLE OF PALESTINE. WE APPEAL TO UNITED NATIONS TO ASSIST JEWISH PEOPLE IN BUILDING OF ITS STATE AND TO ADMIT ISRAEL INTO FAMILY OF NATIONS”. ACCORDINGLY I BEG DECLARE ON BEHALF OF PROVISIONAL GOVERNMENT OF STATE OF ISRAEL ITS READINESS TO SIGN DECLARATION AND UNDERTAKING PROVIDED FOR RESPECTIVELY IN PART ONE C AND PART ONE D OF RESOLUTION OF ASSEMBLY AND BEG HEREBY TO APPLY FOR ADMISSION OF STATE OF ISRAEL TO MEMBERSHIP OF UNITED NATIONS.

You will notice it specifically mentions these instructions: (Contained in Part I, Section C - Declaration, and Part I, Section D - Economic Union and Transit.)

• A declaration shall be made to the United Nations by the provisional government of each proposed State before independence.
• The Provisional Council of Government of each State shall enter into an undertaking with respect to economic union and transit. This undertaking shall be drafted by the commission provided for in section B, paragraph 1, utilizing to the greatest possible extent the advice and co-operation of representative organizations and bodies from each of the proposed States. It shall contain provisions to establish the Economic Union of Palestine and provide for other matters of common interest.

There were specific instruction of how the Declaration was to be made and what it had to contain; as well as were it went. This was all coordinated by the UNSC through the UNPC. To say that one morning the Jewish Agency jumped up and unilaterally declared independence and the UN had nothing to do with it is disingenuous; if not entirely misleading and disinformation.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[pbel]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I think you missed some key factors.

• It was late, after the fact.
• It was attempting to declare Independence over the same territory as the Jewish Agency.
• It was absent participation in the implementation process.
• It did not follow the established steps prepartory to independence.

It was an attempt to defy the UN General Assembly. Even the Arab League recognized it for what it was and retired the Arab Higher Committee that did it; only to reconstitute the Committee later under new management.

The 1988 Declaration was pursuant to the Partition Plan and the Resolution.

What does this mean and why do you mention it?

Israel mentioned resolution 181 but it did not comply with its precepts. Israel's declaration was unilateral and had nothing to do with the UN.

(COMMENT)

The Declaration of Independence of 15 May 1948, was announced by diplomatic cable. You are correct to a point. The implementation process required the cooperation with and the coordination of the UN Palestine Commission. The UNPC held a number of coordination meetings for which the Jewish Agency participated in all, and the Arab Higher Committee participated in none. The Jewish Declaration notice and request for recognition was made in the UNPC Meeting of the 14th, with the coordination cable sent on midnight 14/15 May which, in part, it says:

JEWISH BODIES PALESTINE WHICH HAD APPLIED TO UNITED NATIONS PALESTINE COMMISSION FOR RECOGNITION AS PROVISIONAL COUNCIL GOVERNMENT UNDER PART ONE B FOUR OF RESOLUTION OF GENERAL ASSEMBLY ON NOVEMBER 29TH 1947 MET YESTERDAY MAY 14TH AND ISSUED PROCLAMATION DECLARING FOLLOWING “ON NOVEMBER 29 1947 GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF UNITED NATIONS ADOPTED RESOLUTION FOR ESTABLISHMENT OF INDEPENDENT JEWISH STATE IN PALESTINE AND CALLED UPON INHABITANTS OF COUNTRY TO TAKE SUCH STEPS AS MAY BE NECESSARY ON THEIR PART TO PUT THE PLAN INTO EFFECT.



SOURCE: S/747 16 May 1948

Yes, the People have to Declare Independence on their own, but it can be made easier with the coordination with the UN. In the case of Israel, GA/RES/181(II) was implemented by the UN Security Council through the UNPC. You will notice that the cable further states that:

STATE OF ISRAEL WILL BE READY COOPERATE WITH ORGANS AND REPRESENTATIVES OF UNITED NATIONS IN IMPLEMENTATION OF RESOLUTION OF ASSEMBLY OF NOVEMBER 29 1947 AND WILL TAKE STEPS TO BRING ABOUT ECONOMIC UNION OVER WHOLE OF PALESTINE. WE APPEAL TO UNITED NATIONS TO ASSIST JEWISH PEOPLE IN BUILDING OF ITS STATE AND TO ADMIT ISRAEL INTO FAMILY OF NATIONS”. ACCORDINGLY I BEG DECLARE ON BEHALF OF PROVISIONAL GOVERNMENT OF STATE OF ISRAEL ITS READINESS TO SIGN DECLARATION AND UNDERTAKING PROVIDED FOR RESPECTIVELY IN PART ONE C AND PART ONE D OF RESOLUTION OF ASSEMBLY AND BEG HEREBY TO APPLY FOR ADMISSION OF STATE OF ISRAEL TO MEMBERSHIP OF UNITED NATIONS.

You will notice it specifically mentions these instructions: (Contained in Part I, Section C - Declaration, and Part I, Section D - Economic Union and Transit.)

• A declaration shall be made to the United Nations by the provisional government of each proposed State before independence.
• The Provisional Council of Government of each State shall enter into an undertaking with respect to economic union and transit. This undertaking shall be drafted by the commission provided for in section B, paragraph 1, utilizing to the greatest possible extent the advice and co-operation of representative organizations and bodies from each of the proposed States. It shall contain provisions to establish the Economic Union of Palestine and provide for other matters of common interest.

There were specific instruction of how the Declaration was to be made and what it had to contain; as well as were it went. This was all coordinated by the UNSC through the UNPC. To say that one morning the Jewish Agency jumped up and unilaterally declared independence and the UN had nothing to do with it is disingenuous; if not entirely misleading and disinformation.

Most Respectfully,
R

Rocco, your first premise is wrong....The Arabs were right not to go to a meeting to give up their homes...The human injustice of the Western Power Politics was criminal in my view...Sure Jews were persecuted horrendously in Europe, it is also rising in Europe as we speak, but the Arabs had nothing to do with these atrocities...

It was a simple land grab by force and still is...

 

[RoccoR]

Billo_Really, et al,

Your inserting the word "more" in front of "rights." Your statement is incorrect.

You can't move into an area and automatically have more rights than the people already living there.

(COMMENT)

Immigration as well as nationality laws and citizenship were controlled by the powers-that-be (the Mandatory).

The Jewish just did not move in and take over. They were legally invited. They were given citizenship.

They had the same rights.

The difference was, the Jewish were a bit more sophisticated than the Arab. The Arab were a people not yet ready to stand alone - on their own.

After the 1948 war, Israel was established on a more extensive territory than recommended in the partition plan. By entering into the Armistice Agreement with Egypt in 1949, Israel, demonstrated a sufficient level of stable and effective government of the territory to be recognised as a state by other states and the UN. Israel was effectively and lawfully established as a state, on the armistice territory, by secession from the Mandate of Palestine. A state for the Palestinians living in the Mandate of Palestine was never created and this unrealised goal still constitutes one of the core issues of the conflict.

SOURCE: IHL obligations in the struggle for self-determination

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

Rocco,

Where does it say that a people need to get permission from the UN for anything?

 

[pbel]

Billo_Really, et al,

Your inserting the word "more" in front of "rights." Your statement is incorrect.

You can't move into an area and automatically have more rights than the people already living there.

(COMMENT)

Immigration as well as nationality laws and citizenship were controlled by the powers-that-be (the Mandatory).

The Jewish just did not move in and take over. They were legally invited. They were given citizenship.

They had the same rights.

The difference was, the Jewish were a bit more sophisticated than the Arab. The Arab were a people not yet ready to stand alone - on their own.

After the 1948 war, Israel was established on a more extensive territory than recommended in the partition plan. By entering into the Armistice Agreement with Egypt in 1949, Israel, demonstrated a sufficient level of stable and effective government of the territory to be recognised as a state by other states and the UN. Israel was effectively and lawfully established as a state, on the armistice territory, by secession from the Mandate of Palestine. A state for the Palestinians living in the Mandate of Palestine was never created and this unrealised goal still constitutes one of the core issues of the conflict.

SOURCE: IHL obligations in the struggle for self-determination

Most Respectfully,
R

So they took advantage of a peaceful un-militaristic civilian population and to take their land, property and dignity...Guess they are not going to grovel and roll over.

 

[Billo_Really]

Most Respectfully,
R

And they violated immigration policies at the time.

All these god-damn salutations are driving my up a god-damn wall!

You make it so hard for someone to respond to your fucking posts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I think you missed some key factors.

What does this mean and why do you mention it?

Israel mentioned resolution 181 but it did not comply with its precepts. Israel's declaration was unilateral and had nothing to do with the UN.

(COMMENT)

The Declaration of Independence of 15 May 1948, was announced by diplomatic cable. You are correct to a point. The implementation process required the cooperation with and the coordination of the UN Palestine Commission. The UNPC held a number of coordination meetings for which the Jewish Agency participated in all, and the Arab Higher Committee participated in none. The Jewish Declaration notice and request for recognition was made in the UNPC Meeting of the 14th, with the coordination cable sent on midnight 14/15 May which, in part, it says:



Yes, the People have to Declare Independence on their own, but it can be made easier with the coordination with the UN. In the case of Israel, GA/RES/181(II) was implemented by the UN Security Council through the UNPC. You will notice that the cable further states that:

STATE OF ISRAEL WILL BE READY COOPERATE WITH ORGANS AND REPRESENTATIVES OF UNITED NATIONS IN IMPLEMENTATION OF RESOLUTION OF ASSEMBLY OF NOVEMBER 29 1947 AND WILL TAKE STEPS TO BRING ABOUT ECONOMIC UNION OVER WHOLE OF PALESTINE. WE APPEAL TO UNITED NATIONS TO ASSIST JEWISH PEOPLE IN BUILDING OF ITS STATE AND TO ADMIT ISRAEL INTO FAMILY OF NATIONS”. ACCORDINGLY I BEG DECLARE ON BEHALF OF PROVISIONAL GOVERNMENT OF STATE OF ISRAEL ITS READINESS TO SIGN DECLARATION AND UNDERTAKING PROVIDED FOR RESPECTIVELY IN PART ONE C AND PART ONE D OF RESOLUTION OF ASSEMBLY AND BEG HEREBY TO APPLY FOR ADMISSION OF STATE OF ISRAEL TO MEMBERSHIP OF UNITED NATIONS.

You will notice it specifically mentions these instructions: (Contained in Part I, Section C - Declaration, and Part I, Section D - Economic Union and Transit.)

• A declaration shall be made to the United Nations by the provisional government of each proposed State before independence.
• The Provisional Council of Government of each State shall enter into an undertaking with respect to economic union and transit. This undertaking shall be drafted by the commission provided for in section B, paragraph 1, utilizing to the greatest possible extent the advice and co-operation of representative organizations and bodies from each of the proposed States. It shall contain provisions to establish the Economic Union of Palestine and provide for other matters of common interest.

There were specific instruction of how the Declaration was to be made and what it had to contain; as well as were it went. This was all coordinated by the UNSC through the UNPC. To say that one morning the Jewish Agency jumped up and unilaterally declared independence and the UN had nothing to do with it is disingenuous; if not entirely misleading and disinformation.

Most Respectfully,
R

Rocco, your first premise is wrong....The Arabs were right not to go to a meeting to give up their homes...The human injustice of the Western Power Politics was criminal in my view...Sure Jews were persecuted horrendously in Europe, it is also rising in Europe as we speak, but the Arabs had nothing to do with these atrocities...

It was a simple land grab by force and still is...

The Palestinians had the right to reject the plan and they did. Britain, the mandate at the time, would not implement the plan without Palestinian approval. The US also would not and proposed an alternate plan.

The bottom line is that there was no resolution 181. It didn't happen. Some attempt to drag it out of the grave for political purposes but it has no legal standing.

 

[pbel]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I think you missed some key factors.


(COMMENT)

The Declaration of Independence of 15 May 1948, was announced by diplomatic cable. You are correct to a point. The implementation process required the cooperation with and the coordination of the UN Palestine Commission. The UNPC held a number of coordination meetings for which the Jewish Agency participated in all, and the Arab Higher Committee participated in none. The Jewish Declaration notice and request for recognition was made in the UNPC Meeting of the 14th, with the coordination cable sent on midnight 14/15 May which, in part, it says:



Yes, the People have to Declare Independence on their own, but it can be made easier with the coordination with the UN. In the case of Israel, GA/RES/181(II) was implemented by the UN Security Council through the UNPC. You will notice that the cable further states that:



You will notice it specifically mentions these instructions: (Contained in Part I, Section C - Declaration, and Part I, Section D - Economic Union and Transit.)

• A declaration shall be made to the United Nations by the provisional government of each proposed State before independence.
• The Provisional Council of Government of each State shall enter into an undertaking with respect to economic union and transit. This undertaking shall be drafted by the commission provided for in section B, paragraph 1, utilizing to the greatest possible extent the advice and co-operation of representative organizations and bodies from each of the proposed States. It shall contain provisions to establish the Economic Union of Palestine and provide for other matters of common interest.

There were specific instruction of how the Declaration was to be made and what it had to contain; as well as were it went. This was all coordinated by the UNSC through the UNPC. To say that one morning the Jewish Agency jumped up and unilaterally declared independence and the UN had nothing to do with it is disingenuous; if not entirely misleading and disinformation.

Most Respectfully,
R

Rocco, your first premise is wrong....The Arabs were right not to go to a meeting to give up their homes...The human injustice of the Western Power Politics was criminal in my view...Sure Jews were persecuted horrendously in Europe, it is also rising in Europe as we speak, but the Arabs had nothing to do with these atrocities...

It was a simple land grab by force and still is...

The Palestinians had the right to reject the plan and they did. Britain, the mandate at the time, would not implement the plan without Palestinian approval. The US also would not and proposed an alternate plan.

The bottom line is that there was no resolution 181. It didn't happen. Some attempt to drag it out of the grave for political purposes but it has no legal standing.

Tinnie, all resolutions aside including all the Legalities created by the winners of WWll, the human injustice is obvious and glaring...

 

[Billo_Really]

Tinnie, all resolutions aside including all the Legalities created by the winners of WWll, the human injustice is obvious and glaring...

RoccoR is playing a bullshit game of semantics and I don't appreciate it.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Billo_Really, et al,

Many people are of a like mind. It doesn't make it so.

Billo_Really, et al,

I thought you knew. The Palestinians have their own state.


(COMMENT)

Or is that something you don't acknowledge either.



Oh yes, I forgot, you don't recognize GA Resolution 181(II), so it can't be so.

Please disregard.

Most Respectfully,
R

I recognize 181 was merely a "recommendation" and carry's no legal weight whatsoever.

I also recognize Zionists stood up in 1948 and declared themselves a sovereign nation in an area where they only owned 7% of the land.

(COMMENT)

Here again, is the faulty association between land ownership and sovereignty.

Believe what you will. It doesn't make you right. But remember, when the Resolution was used by the Palestinians, it was effect.

Most Respectfully,
R

Does this mean that the proposed borders will be recognized, the rights of the non Jewish inhabitants will be honored, and Jerusalem will be an international city?

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

It doesn't.

Rocco,
Where does it say that a people need to get permission from the UN for anything?

(COMMENT)

The All Palestine Government (APG) cable of 28 September, 1948, which declared independence over the entire territory and on the basis of "ownership," was noted and filed with no action.

It was clear that they (APG) were not asking for recognition and received none. The action by the APG was clearly in defiance of the Resolution and in anticipation of a swift Arab military victory.

Most Respectfully,
R