Palestinians Deny Jewish Connection to Jerusalem

[montelatici]

You forgot the Romans..........such a post should be thrown into the GARBAGE CAN OF THE INSANE

NOPE the Romans were just like the muslims belligerent violent invaders

SO WERE THE JEWS CIRCA 1925 ONWARDS,you are SCREWED AGAIN

Nope as they were only defending what was theirs under International law. And the arab muslims started the violence in 1917 when they found they were to lose part of the M.E.

You do realize you make absolutely no sense. What international law gave part of the Middle East to European Jews?

LoN Mandate of Palestine of course, and this was reinforced by the

OFFICIAL RECORDS OF THE SECOND SESSION OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY
SUPPLEMENT No. 11

UNITED NATIONSSPECIAL COMMITTEEON PALESTINE

REPORT TO THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY​

That clearly says that the arab muslims don't have any rights to Jewish Palestine.

​

Where does it say that?

 

[Challenger]

Did his second cousin whose family had lived in Jerusalem from the first Temple have any connection. Did Ali ben nutjob from Mecca who went looking for work in 1890 have any connection to Jerusalem ?

The only people to move to Palestine in 1890 in any number were the European Jews. No one to speak of went to Palestine from Mecca. In fact, prior to 1850 there were only a handful of Jews in Palestine.

There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*See Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.

The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews. - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921

Proven to be false by the research done by the Catholic church


CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Jerusalem After 1291

"...Present condition of the City: (1907 edition)

Jerusalem (El Quds) is the capital of a sanjak and the seat of a mutasarrif directly dependent on the Sublime Porte. In the administration of the sanjak the mutasarrif is assisted by a council called majlis ida ra; the city has a municipal government (majlis baladiye) presided over by a mayor. The total population is estimated at 66,000. The Turkish census of 1905, which counts only Ottoman subjects, gives these figures:
Jews, 45,000; Moslems, 8,000; Orthodox Christians, 6000; Latins, 2500; Armenians, 950; Protestants, 800; Melkites, 250; Copts, 150; Abyssinians, 100; Jacobites, 100; Catholic Syrians, 50. During the Nineteenth century large suburbs to the north and east have grown up, chiefly for the use of the Jewish colony. These suburbs contain nearly Half the present population...""

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Growth of Jerusalem 1838-Present

....... Jews Muslims Christians Total
1838 6,000 5,000 3,000 14,000
1844 7,120 5,760 3,390 16,270 ..... ..The First Official Ottoman Census
1876 12,000 7,560 5,470 25,030 .... .....Second """"""""""
1905 40,000 8,000 10,900 58,900 ....... Third/last, detailed in CathEncyc above
1948 99,320 36,680 31,300 167,300
1990 353,200 124,200 14,000 491,400
1992 385,000 150,000 15,000 550,000

http://www.testimony-magazine.org/jerusalem/bring.htm



Go to the new address at the top of the link

Besides confirming the high rate of migration to Palestine by the Europeans, what does the population of Jerusalem have to do with the population of Palestine?

Where does it confirm a high rate of migration by only the Jews ?

The census covered the Sanjak of Jerusalem not just the city and this shows that the area was nearly all of modern day Israel

Want to try again freddy boy ?

So, it is your contention that there were 16,270 people in the whole of Palestine in 1844. Interesting.

Not really, just another Phoney phail.

 

[Challenger]

In 1905 the Census figures Included the Kaza of Jerusalem (which included Abwein, Beit Jala, Bethlehem, Jerusalem, Ramallah and Saffa) which stated the Kaza contained a total of 110,200 Ottoman subjects, of whom 67,700 were Muslim, 28,800 Christian and 13,700 Jewish Ottomans. Of course the 1905 census did not include foreigners resident in the Kaza which the Ottomans estimated to be about 3,000 Christian and 21,000 Jewish Europeans\Westerners. The Sanjak of Jerusalem at the time included the Kazas of Hebron, Jaffa, Gaza and Beersheba as well as Jerusalem. The Kazas of Jerusalem and Hebron combined had a total population of over 168,000 so its unclear how the Catholic Encyclopedia source he cites arrives at the figures quoted. My figures come from "Population characteristics of Jerusalem and Hebron Regions according to Ottoman Census of 1905" by U. O. Schmelz in "Ottoman Palestine, 1800-1914: Studies in Economic and Social History." pages 16-47

 

[aris2chat]

It's possible they may have a point. While there is no doubt Jerusalem was the centre of the Temple cult of Judaism, that's not to say the native population of Jerusalem were all adherants to that cult. Here's a couple of interesting articles that illustrate the point,

"An ancient pagan temple was found just three miles from Jerusalem. It dates from the time that the Biblical Temple to the true God was in operation. The discovery shows what the Prophets were railing against, God’s people turning to idols. Solomon built the Temple in accord with God’s commands, but he then built temples to other deities to please his pagan wives."

Pagan temple found just outside Jerusalem

and

"The Bible imagines the religion of ancient Israel as purely monotheistic. And doubtless there were Israelites, particularly those associated with the Jerusalem Temple, who were strict monotheists. But the archaeological evidence (and the Bible, too, if you read it closely enough) suggests that the monotheism of many Israelites was far from pure. For them, Yahweh (the name of the Israelite god) was not the only divinity. Some Israelites believed that Yahweh had a female consort. And many Israelites invoked the divinity with the help of images, particularly figurines. I call this Israelite religion pagan Yahwism.
The archaeological evidence we will look at comes mostly from Judah in what is known in archaeological terms as the Assyrian period, the span from 721 B.C.E., when the Assyrians destroyed the northern kingdom of Israel, until 586 B.C.E., when the Babylonians conquered Jerusalem, destroyed the Temple and brought an end to the Davidic dynasty in Judah. This period, to put it into perspective, is several centuries after King Solomon built the Jerusalem Temple in about 950 B.C.E. So the archaeological evidence we are about to discuss documents a level of Israelite paganism long after Solomon built an exclusive home for Israel’s god."
Pagan Yahwism The Folk Religion of Ancient Israel The BAS Library

Hurrians, assyrians, egyptians, local canaanites, moabites and aegean sea people were all criss crossing the land before and during the first temple period. Babylonians brought their own gods when they conquered.
The find was not in Jerusalem but between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. There are lots of things still be found. Every dig in Israel has the possibility that antiquities will delay or saved as a historic site.

So what evidence is there that Jerusalem was exclusively Jewish?

You mean like it being the capital and that the mount was built for the site of the temple? Before that the mount was used to thrash wheat. Being a high point it made the husks easier to blow away in the process to separate and collect just the grain.
Idolators were not permitted to pray in the city like they did in samaria, sidon, tyre or east of Jerusalem.
The mount would have been purified before that temple could have been built.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

In 1905 the Census figures Included the Kaza of Jerusalem (which included Abwein, Beit Jala, Bethlehem, Jerusalem, Ramallah and Saffa) which stated the Kaza contained a total of 110,200 Ottoman subjects, of whom 67,700 were Muslim, 28,800 Christian and 13,700 Jewish Ottomans. Of course the 1905 census did not include foreigners resident in the Kaza which the Ottomans estimated to be about 3,000 Christian and 21,000 Jewish Europeans\Westerners. The Sanjak of Jerusalem at the time included the Kazas of Hebron, Jaffa, Gaza and Beersheba as well as Jerusalem. The Kazas of Jerusalem and Hebron combined had a total population of over 168,000 so its unclear how the Catholic Encyclopedia source he cites arrives at the figures quoted. My figures come from "Population characteristics of Jerusalem and Hebron Regions according to Ottoman Census of 1905" by U. O. Schmelz in "Ottoman Palestine, 1800-1914: Studies in Economic and Social History." pages 16-47

What's a Kaza? and a Sanjak?

 

[Phoenall]

NOPE the Romans were just like the muslims belligerent violent invaders

SO WERE THE JEWS CIRCA 1925 ONWARDS,you are SCREWED AGAIN

Nope as they were only defending what was theirs under International law. And the arab muslims started the violence in 1917 when they found they were to lose part of the M.E.

You do realize you make absolutely no sense. What international law gave part of the Middle East to European Jews?

LoN Mandate of Palestine of course, and this was reinforced by the

OFFICIAL RECORDS OF THE SECOND SESSION OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY
SUPPLEMENT No. 11

UNITED NATIONSSPECIAL COMMITTEEON PALESTINE

REPORT TO THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY​

That clearly says that the arab muslims don't have any rights to Jewish Palestine.

​

Where does it say that?

The Jewish StateThe north-eastern sector of the proposed Jewish State (Eastern Galilee) will have frontiers with the Lebanon in the north and west and with Syria and Transjordan on the east and will include the whole of the Huleh basin. Lake Tiberias and the whole of the Beisan sub-district. From Beisan the Jewish State will extend north-west following the boundary described in respect of the Arab State.

The Jewish sector on the coastal plain extends from a point south of Acre to just north of Isdud in the Gaza sub-district and includes the towns of Haifa, Tel-Aviv and Jaffa. The eastern frontier of the Jewish State follows the boundary described in respect of the Arab State.

The Beersheba area includes the whole of the Beersheba sub-district, which includes the Negeb and the eastern part of the Gaza sub-district south of the point of intersection. The northern boundary of this area, from the point of intersection, runs south-eastwards to a point on the Hebron sub-district boundary south of Qubeiba, and thence follows the southern boundary of the Hebron sub-district to the Dead Sea.

167. With regard to the promises and pledges made to the Arabs as inducement for their support of the Allies in the First World War, it is to be noted that apparently there is no unequivocal agreement as to whether Palestine was included within the territory pledged to independence by the McMahon-Hussein correspondence. In this connexion, since the question of interpretation was raised Great Britain has consistently denied that Palestine was among the territories to which independence was pledged.168. These promises were examined in 1939 by a committee consisting of British and Arab representatives which was set up for that purpose during the Arab-British Conference on Palestine. That committee considered the Mc-Mahon correspondence and certain subsequent events and documents which one party or the other regarded as likely to shed light on the meaning or intention of the correspondence. It examined, inter alia, the so-called Sykes-Picot Agreement, the Balfour Declaration, the "Hogarth Message", the "Declaration to the Seven", General Allenby's assurance to the Amir Feisal, and the Anglo-French Declaration of 7 December 1918.

169. In its report148/ the committee stated that the Arab and the United Kingdom representatives had been "unable to reach agreement upon an interpretation of the correspondence".149/ The United Kingdom representatives, however, informed the Arab representatives that the Arab contentions, as explained to the committee, regarding the interpretation of the correspondence, and especially their contentions relating to the meaning of the phrase "portions of Syria lying to the west of the districts of Damascus, Hama, Horns and Aleppo 150/ have greater force than has appeared hitherto".151/ Moreover, the United Kingdom representatives informed the Arab representatives that "they agree that Palestine was included in the area claimed by the Sherif of Mecca in his letter of 14 July 1915, and that unless Palestine was excluded from that area later in the correspondence, it must be regarded as having been included in the area in which Great Britain was to recognize and support the independence of the Arabs. They maintain that on a proper construction of the correspondence, Palestine was in fact excluded. But they agree that the language in which its exclusion was expressed was not so specific and unmistakable as it was thought to be at the time".152/

170. With regard to the various statements mentioned in paragraph 168, the above committee considered that it was beyond its scope to express an opinion upon their proper interpretation, and that such opinion could not in any case be properly formed unless consideration had also been given to a number of other statements made during the war. In the opinion of the committee, however, it was evident from these statements that "His Majesty's Government were not free to dispose of Palestine without regard for the wishes and interests of the inhabitants of Palestine, and that these statements must all be taken into account in any attempt to estimate the responsibilities which—upon any interpretation of the correspondence—His Majesty's Government have incurred towards those inhabitants as a result of the correspondence".153/

177. As to the claim that the Palestine Mandate violates Article 22 of the Covenant because the community of Palestine has not been recognized as an independent nation and because the mandatory was given full powers of legislation and administration, it has been rightly pointed out by the Peel Commission:" (a) That the provisional recognition of certain communities formerly belonging to the Turkish Empire as independent nations is permissible; the words are can be provisionally recognized, not 'will' or 'shall';

" (b) That the penultimate paragraph of Article 22 prescribes that the degree of authority to be exercised by the mandatory shall be defined, at need, by the Council of the League;

" (c) That the acceptance by the Allied Powers and the United States of the policy of the Ball-four Declaration made it clear from the beginning that Palestine would have been treated differently from Syria and Iraq, and that this difference of treatment was confirmed by the Supreme Council in the Treaty of Sevres and by the Council of the League in sanctioning the Mandate."154/

 

[Phoenall]

The only people to move to Palestine in 1890 in any number were the European Jews. No one to speak of went to Palestine from Mecca. In fact, prior to 1850 there were only a handful of Jews in Palestine.

There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*See Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.

The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews. - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921

Proven to be false by the research done by the Catholic church


CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Jerusalem After 1291

"...Present condition of the City: (1907 edition)

Jerusalem (El Quds) is the capital of a sanjak and the seat of a mutasarrif directly dependent on the Sublime Porte. In the administration of the sanjak the mutasarrif is assisted by a council called majlis ida ra; the city has a municipal government (majlis baladiye) presided over by a mayor. The total population is estimated at 66,000. The Turkish census of 1905, which counts only Ottoman subjects, gives these figures:
Jews, 45,000; Moslems, 8,000; Orthodox Christians, 6000; Latins, 2500; Armenians, 950; Protestants, 800; Melkites, 250; Copts, 150; Abyssinians, 100; Jacobites, 100; Catholic Syrians, 50. During the Nineteenth century large suburbs to the north and east have grown up, chiefly for the use of the Jewish colony. These suburbs contain nearly Half the present population...""

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Growth of Jerusalem 1838-Present

....... Jews Muslims Christians Total
1838 6,000 5,000 3,000 14,000
1844 7,120 5,760 3,390 16,270 ..... ..The First Official Ottoman Census
1876 12,000 7,560 5,470 25,030 .... .....Second """"""""""
1905 40,000 8,000 10,900 58,900 ....... Third/last, detailed in CathEncyc above
1948 99,320 36,680 31,300 167,300
1990 353,200 124,200 14,000 491,400
1992 385,000 150,000 15,000 550,000

http://www.testimony-magazine.org/jerusalem/bring.htm



Go to the new address at the top of the link

Besides confirming the high rate of migration to Palestine by the Europeans, what does the population of Jerusalem have to do with the population of Palestine?

Where does it confirm a high rate of migration by only the Jews ?

The census covered the Sanjak of Jerusalem not just the city and this shows that the area was nearly all of modern day Israel

Want to try again freddy boy ?

So, it is your contention that there were 16,270 people in the whole of Palestine in 1844. Interesting.

Not really, just another Phoney phail.

maybe you can find were I said that rat boy, or are you LYING again because the truth hurts.

 

[Phoenall]

In 1905 the Census figures Included the Kaza of Jerusalem (which included Abwein, Beit Jala, Bethlehem, Jerusalem, Ramallah and Saffa) which stated the Kaza contained a total of 110,200 Ottoman subjects, of whom 67,700 were Muslim, 28,800 Christian and 13,700 Jewish Ottomans. Of course the 1905 census did not include foreigners resident in the Kaza which the Ottomans estimated to be about 3,000 Christian and 21,000 Jewish Europeans\Westerners. The Sanjak of Jerusalem at the time included the Kazas of Hebron, Jaffa, Gaza and Beersheba as well as Jerusalem. The Kazas of Jerusalem and Hebron combined had a total population of over 168,000 so its unclear how the Catholic Encyclopedia source he cites arrives at the figures quoted. My figures come from "Population characteristics of Jerusalem and Hebron Regions according to Ottoman Census of 1905" by U. O. Schmelz in "Ottoman Palestine, 1800-1914: Studies in Economic and Social History." pages 16-47

Just as the last UK census did not count foreign nationals, but then this does not work in the case of Palestine because it destroys your POV.

 

[Phoenall]

In 1905 the Census figures Included the Kaza of Jerusalem (which included Abwein, Beit Jala, Bethlehem, Jerusalem, Ramallah and Saffa) which stated the Kaza contained a total of 110,200 Ottoman subjects, of whom 67,700 were Muslim, 28,800 Christian and 13,700 Jewish Ottomans. Of course the 1905 census did not include foreigners resident in the Kaza which the Ottomans estimated to be about 3,000 Christian and 21,000 Jewish Europeans\Westerners. The Sanjak of Jerusalem at the time included the Kazas of Hebron, Jaffa, Gaza and Beersheba as well as Jerusalem. The Kazas of Jerusalem and Hebron combined had a total population of over 168,000 so its unclear how the Catholic Encyclopedia source he cites arrives at the figures quoted. My figures come from "Population characteristics of Jerusalem and Hebron Regions according to Ottoman Census of 1905" by U. O. Schmelz in "Ottoman Palestine, 1800-1914: Studies in Economic and Social History." pages 16-47

What's a Kaza? and a Sanjak?

Ottoman civil areas, much like states and counties in the US

 

[montelatici]

Proven to be false by the research done by the Catholic church


CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Jerusalem After 1291

"...Present condition of the City: (1907 edition)

Jerusalem (El Quds) is the capital of a sanjak and the seat of a mutasarrif directly dependent on the Sublime Porte. In the administration of the sanjak the mutasarrif is assisted by a council called majlis ida ra; the city has a municipal government (majlis baladiye) presided over by a mayor. The total population is estimated at 66,000. The Turkish census of 1905, which counts only Ottoman subjects, gives these figures:
Jews, 45,000; Moslems, 8,000; Orthodox Christians, 6000; Latins, 2500; Armenians, 950; Protestants, 800; Melkites, 250; Copts, 150; Abyssinians, 100; Jacobites, 100; Catholic Syrians, 50. During the Nineteenth century large suburbs to the north and east have grown up, chiefly for the use of the Jewish colony. These suburbs contain nearly Half the present population...""

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Growth of Jerusalem 1838-Present

....... Jews Muslims Christians Total
1838 6,000 5,000 3,000 14,000
1844 7,120 5,760 3,390 16,270 ..... ..The First Official Ottoman Census
1876 12,000 7,560 5,470 25,030 .... .....Second """"""""""
1905 40,000 8,000 10,900 58,900 ....... Third/last, detailed in CathEncyc above
1948 99,320 36,680 31,300 167,300
1990 353,200 124,200 14,000 491,400
1992 385,000 150,000 15,000 550,000

http://www.testimony-magazine.org/jerusalem/bring.htm



Go to the new address at the top of the link

Besides confirming the high rate of migration to Palestine by the Europeans, what does the population of Jerusalem have to do with the population of Palestine?

Where does it confirm a high rate of migration by only the Jews ?

The census covered the Sanjak of Jerusalem not just the city and this shows that the area was nearly all of modern day Israel

Want to try again freddy boy ?

So, it is your contention that there were 16,270 people in the whole of Palestine in 1844. Interesting.

Not really, just another Phoney phail.

maybe you can find were I said that rat boy, or are you LYING again because the truth hurts.

Thanks for posting this Phoney:

"it was evident from these statements that "His Majesty's Government were not free to dispose of Palestine without regard for the wishes and interests of the inhabitants of Palestine,

 

[Roudy]

In 1905 the Census figures Included the Kaza of Jerusalem (which included Abwein, Beit Jala, Bethlehem, Jerusalem, Ramallah and Saffa) which stated the Kaza contained a total of 110,200 Ottoman subjects, of whom 67,700 were Muslim, 28,800 Christian and 13,700 Jewish Ottomans. Of course the 1905 census did not include foreigners resident in the Kaza which the Ottomans estimated to be about 3,000 Christian and 21,000 Jewish Europeans\Westerners. The Sanjak of Jerusalem at the time included the Kazas of Hebron, Jaffa, Gaza and Beersheba as well as Jerusalem. The Kazas of Jerusalem and Hebron combined had a total population of over 168,000 so its unclear how the Catholic Encyclopedia source he cites arrives at the figures quoted. My figures come from "Population characteristics of Jerusalem and Hebron Regions according to Ottoman Census of 1905" by U. O. Schmelz in "Ottoman Palestine, 1800-1914: Studies in Economic and Social History." pages 16-47

Wrong again, Jews have been coming back to Israel for 2000 years, including during the Ottoman Empire, when they eventually became a majority in the 1800's. The Arabs are just 20th century invaders and imposters.

Pre-State Israel:
Under Ottoman Rule
(1517 - 1917)

Following the Ottoman conquest in 1517, the Land was divided into four districts and attached administratively to the province of Damascus and ruled from Istanbul. At the outset of the Ottoman era, an estimated 1,000 Jewish families lived in the country, mainly in Jerusalem, Nablus (Shechem), Hebron, Gaza, Safad (Tzfat) and the villages of Galilee. The community was comprised of descendants of Jews who had never left the Land as well as immigrants from North Africa and Europe.

Orderly government, until the death (1566) of Sultan Suleiman the Magificent, brought improvements and stimulated Jewish immigration. Some newcomers settled in Jerusalem, but the majority went to Safad where, by mid-16th century, the Jewish population had risen to about 10,000, and the town had become a thriving textile center as well as the focus of intense intellectual activity. During this period, the study of Kabbalah (Jewish mysticism) flourished, and contemporary clarifications of Jewish law, as codified in the Shulhan Arukh, spread throughout the Diaspora from the study houses in Safad.

With a gradual decline in the quality of Ottoman rule, the country was brought to a state of widespread neglect. By the end of the 18th century, much of the land was owned by absentee landlords and leased to impoverished tenant farmers, and taxation was as crippling as it was capricious. The great forests of Galilee and the Carmel mountain range were denuded of trees; swamp and desert encroached on agricultural land.

The 19th century saw medieval backwardness gradually give way to the first signs of progress, with various Western powers jockeyed for position, often through missionary activities. British, French and American scholars launched studies of biblical geography and archeology; Britain, France, Russia, Austria and the United States opened consulates in Jerusalem. Steamships began to ply regular routes between the Land and Europe; postal and telegraphic connections were installed; the first road was built connecting Jerusalem and Jaffa. The Land's rebirth as a crossroads for commerce of three continents was accelerated by the opening of the Suez Canal.

Consequently, the condition of the country's Jews slowly improved, and their numbers increased substantially. By mid-century, overcrowded conditions within the walled city of Jerusalem motivated the Jews to build the first neighborhood outside the walls (1860) and, in the next quarter century, to add seven more, forming the nucleus of the New City. By 1880, Jerusalem had an overall Jewish majority. Land for farming was purchased throughout the country; new rural settlements were set up; and the Hebrew language, long restricted to liturgy and literature, was revived. The stage was being set for the founding of the Zionist movement.

 

[theliq]

Can't all Abrahamic religions claim some connection to Jerusalem?

no. there's really no connection between jerusalem and islam. it isn't mentioned a single time in the koran. yet it forms the center of judaism in the talmud and christianity in the new testament.

Interesting I didn't know that.

I wonder who are the descendants of the Canaanites? I believe they would have an older claim to whatever the hell Jerusalem was thousands of years ago.

i think it's correct they'd be the phoenicians.

Yawn

quiet, terrorist supporting troll.

Call me what you like,like much of what you spew....it's all shit

 

[theliq]

Jerusalem belongs to the Jews. Why? Because dspite repeated attempts to make it otherwise Jews repelled every invading army and defeated every foe in battle.

If Jerusalem and Israel was anyone else's, God wouldn't be on their side now would he?

You forgot the Romans..........such a post should be thrown into the GARBAGE CAN OF THE INSANE

NOPE the Romans were just like the muslims belligerent violent invaders

SO WERE THE JEWS CIRCA 1925 ONWARDS,you are SCREWED AGAIN

Nope as they were only defending what was theirs under International law. And the arab muslims started the violence in 1917 when they found they were to lose part of the M.E.

You still sitting on the DUNNIE......because you are full of shit

 

[theliq]

In 1905 the Census figures Included the Kaza of Jerusalem (which included Abwein, Beit Jala, Bethlehem, Jerusalem, Ramallah and Saffa) which stated the Kaza contained a total of 110,200 Ottoman subjects, of whom 67,700 were Muslim, 28,800 Christian and 13,700 Jewish Ottomans. Of course the 1905 census did not include foreigners resident in the Kaza which the Ottomans estimated to be about 3,000 Christian and 21,000 Jewish Europeans\Westerners. The Sanjak of Jerusalem at the time included the Kazas of Hebron, Jaffa, Gaza and Beersheba as well as Jerusalem. The Kazas of Jerusalem and Hebron combined had a total population of over 168,000 so its unclear how the Catholic Encyclopedia source he cites arrives at the figures quoted. My figures come from "Population characteristics of Jerusalem and Hebron Regions according to Ottoman Census of 1905" by U. O. Schmelz in "Ottoman Palestine, 1800-1914: Studies in Economic and Social History." pages 16-47

Wrong again, Jews have been coming back to Israel for 2000 years, including during the Ottoman Empire, when they eventually became a majority in the 1800's. The Arabs are just 20th century invaders and imposters.

Pre-State Israel:
Under Ottoman Rule
(1517 - 1917)

Following the Ottoman conquest in 1517, the Land was divided into four districts and attached administratively to the province of Damascus and ruled from Istanbul. At the outset of the Ottoman era, an estimated 1,000 Jewish families lived in the country, mainly in Jerusalem, Nablus (Shechem), Hebron, Gaza, Safad (Tzfat) and the villages of Galilee. The community was comprised of descendants of Jews who had never left the Land as well as immigrants from North Africa and Europe.

Orderly government, until the death (1566) of Sultan Suleiman the Magificent, brought improvements and stimulated Jewish immigration. Some newcomers settled in Jerusalem, but the majority went to Safad where, by mid-16th century, the Jewish population had risen to about 10,000, and the town had become a thriving textile center as well as the focus of intense intellectual activity. During this period, the study of Kabbalah (Jewish mysticism) flourished, and contemporary clarifications of Jewish law, as codified in the Shulhan Arukh, spread throughout the Diaspora from the study houses in Safad.

With a gradual decline in the quality of Ottoman rule, the country was brought to a state of widespread neglect. By the end of the 18th century, much of the land was owned by absentee landlords and leased to impoverished tenant farmers, and taxation was as crippling as it was capricious. The great forests of Galilee and the Carmel mountain range were denuded of trees; swamp and desert encroached on agricultural land.

The 19th century saw medieval backwardness gradually give way to the first signs of progress, with various Western powers jockeyed for position, often through missionary activities. British, French and American scholars launched studies of biblical geography and archeology; Britain, France, Russia, Austria and the United States opened consulates in Jerusalem. Steamships began to ply regular routes between the Land and Europe; postal and telegraphic connections were installed; the first road was built connecting Jerusalem and Jaffa. The Land's rebirth as a crossroads for commerce of three continents was accelerated by the opening of the Suez Canal.

Consequently, the condition of the country's Jews slowly improved, and their numbers increased substantially. By mid-century, overcrowded conditions within the walled city of Jerusalem motivated the Jews to build the first neighborhood outside the walls (1860) and, in the next quarter century, to add seven more, forming the nucleus of the New City. By 1880, Jerusalem had an overall Jewish majority. Land for farming was purchased throughout the country; new rural settlements were set up; and the Hebrew language, long restricted to liturgy and literature, was revived. The stage was being set for the founding of the Zionist movement.

So NO Jews ever left Palestine.....????? Now take your head out of your ASS

 

[Roudy]

In 1905 the Census figures Included the Kaza of Jerusalem (which included Abwein, Beit Jala, Bethlehem, Jerusalem, Ramallah and Saffa) which stated the Kaza contained a total of 110,200 Ottoman subjects, of whom 67,700 were Muslim, 28,800 Christian and 13,700 Jewish Ottomans. Of course the 1905 census did not include foreigners resident in the Kaza which the Ottomans estimated to be about 3,000 Christian and 21,000 Jewish Europeans\Westerners. The Sanjak of Jerusalem at the time included the Kazas of Hebron, Jaffa, Gaza and Beersheba as well as Jerusalem. The Kazas of Jerusalem and Hebron combined had a total population of over 168,000 so its unclear how the Catholic Encyclopedia source he cites arrives at the figures quoted. My figures come from "Population characteristics of Jerusalem and Hebron Regions according to Ottoman Census of 1905" by U. O. Schmelz in "Ottoman Palestine, 1800-1914: Studies in Economic and Social History." pages 16-47

Wrong again, Jews have been coming back to Israel for 2000 years, including during the Ottoman Empire, when they eventually became a majority in the 1800's. The Arabs are just 20th century invaders and imposters.

Pre-State Israel:
Under Ottoman Rule
(1517 - 1917)

Following the Ottoman conquest in 1517, the Land was divided into four districts and attached administratively to the province of Damascus and ruled from Istanbul. At the outset of the Ottoman era, an estimated 1,000 Jewish families lived in the country, mainly in Jerusalem, Nablus (Shechem), Hebron, Gaza, Safad (Tzfat) and the villages of Galilee. The community was comprised of descendants of Jews who had never left the Land as well as immigrants from North Africa and Europe.

Orderly government, until the death (1566) of Sultan Suleiman the Magificent, brought improvements and stimulated Jewish immigration. Some newcomers settled in Jerusalem, but the majority went to Safad where, by mid-16th century, the Jewish population had risen to about 10,000, and the town had become a thriving textile center as well as the focus of intense intellectual activity. During this period, the study of Kabbalah (Jewish mysticism) flourished, and contemporary clarifications of Jewish law, as codified in the Shulhan Arukh, spread throughout the Diaspora from the study houses in Safad.

With a gradual decline in the quality of Ottoman rule, the country was brought to a state of widespread neglect. By the end of the 18th century, much of the land was owned by absentee landlords and leased to impoverished tenant farmers, and taxation was as crippling as it was capricious. The great forests of Galilee and the Carmel mountain range were denuded of trees; swamp and desert encroached on agricultural land.

The 19th century saw medieval backwardness gradually give way to the first signs of progress, with various Western powers jockeyed for position, often through missionary activities. British, French and American scholars launched studies of biblical geography and archeology; Britain, France, Russia, Austria and the United States opened consulates in Jerusalem. Steamships began to ply regular routes between the Land and Europe; postal and telegraphic connections were installed; the first road was built connecting Jerusalem and Jaffa. The Land's rebirth as a crossroads for commerce of three continents was accelerated by the opening of the Suez Canal.

Consequently, the condition of the country's Jews slowly improved, and their numbers increased substantially. By mid-century, overcrowded conditions within the walled city of Jerusalem motivated the Jews to build the first neighborhood outside the walls (1860) and, in the next quarter century, to add seven more, forming the nucleus of the New City. By 1880, Jerusalem had an overall Jewish majority. Land for farming was purchased throughout the country; new rural settlements were set up; and the Hebrew language, long restricted to liturgy and literature, was revived. The stage was being set for the founding of the Zionist movement.

So NO Jews ever left Palestine.....????? Now take your head out of your ASS

That's not what it says. Read it again, dipstick, some of the Jews that immigrated to the Ottoman Empire in the 1400's and 1500's, ended up settling back in their holy land.

 

[Phoenall]

Besides confirming the high rate of migration to Palestine by the Europeans, what does the population of Jerusalem have to do with the population of Palestine?

Where does it confirm a high rate of migration by only the Jews ?

The census covered the Sanjak of Jerusalem not just the city and this shows that the area was nearly all of modern day Israel

Want to try again freddy boy ?

So, it is your contention that there were 16,270 people in the whole of Palestine in 1844. Interesting.

Not really, just another Phoney phail.

maybe you can find were I said that rat boy, or are you LYING again because the truth hurts.

Thanks for posting this Phoney:

"it was evident from these statements that "His Majesty's Government were not free to dispose of Palestine without regard for the wishes and interests of the inhabitants of Palestine,

Cherry picking again freddy boy, after saying that you don't.
here is the paragraph in full

170. With regard to the various statements mentioned in paragraph 168, the above committee considered that it was beyond its scope to express an opinion upon their proper interpretation, and that such opinion could not in any case be properly formed unless consideration had also been given to a number of other statements made during the war. In the opinion of the committee, however, it was evident from these statements that "His Majesty's Government were not free to dispose of Palestine without regard for the wishes and interests of the inhabitants of Palestine, and that these statements must all be taken into account in any attempt to estimate the responsibilities which—upon any interpretation of the correspondence—His Majesty's Government have incurred towards those inhabitants as a result of the correspondence
177. As to the claim that the Palestine Mandate violates Article 22 of the Covenant because the community of Palestine has not been recognized as an independent nation and because the mandatory was given full powers of legislation and administration, it has been rightly pointed out by the Peel Commission:" (a) That the provisional recognition of certain communities formerly belonging to the Turkish Empire as independent nations is permissible; the words are can be provisionally recognized, not 'will' or 'shall';

" (b) That the penultimate paragraph of Article 22 prescribes that the degree of authority to be exercised by the mandatory shall be defined, at need, by the Council of the League;

" (c) That the acceptance by the Allied Powers and the United States of the policy of the Ball-four Declaration made it clear from the beginning that Palestine would have been treated differently from Syria and Iraq, and that this difference of treatment was confirmed by the Supreme Council in the Treaty of Sevres and by the Council of the League in sanctioning the Mandate."154/

 

[Phoenall]

Jerusalem belongs to the Jews. Why? Because dspite repeated attempts to make it otherwise Jews repelled every invading army and defeated every foe in battle.

If Jerusalem and Israel was anyone else's, God wouldn't be on their side now would he?

You forgot the Romans..........such a post should be thrown into the GARBAGE CAN OF THE INSANE

NOPE the Romans were just like the muslims belligerent violent invaders

SO WERE THE JEWS CIRCA 1925 ONWARDS,you are SCREWED AGAIN

Nope as they were only defending what was theirs under International law. And the arab muslims started the violence in 1917 when they found they were to lose part of the M.E.

You still sitting on the DUNNIE......because you are full of shit

Read the history books of that time and see, you must have been bitten by a false widow to make you hallucinate so much

 

[Challenger]

In 1905 the Census figures Included the Kaza of Jerusalem (which included Abwein, Beit Jala, Bethlehem, Jerusalem, Ramallah and Saffa) which stated the Kaza contained a total of 110,200 Ottoman subjects, of whom 67,700 were Muslim, 28,800 Christian and 13,700 Jewish Ottomans. Of course the 1905 census did not include foreigners resident in the Kaza which the Ottomans estimated to be about 3,000 Christian and 21,000 Jewish Europeans\Westerners. The Sanjak of Jerusalem at the time included the Kazas of Hebron, Jaffa, Gaza and Beersheba as well as Jerusalem. The Kazas of Jerusalem and Hebron combined had a total population of over 168,000 so its unclear how the Catholic Encyclopedia source he cites arrives at the figures quoted. My figures come from "Population characteristics of Jerusalem and Hebron Regions according to Ottoman Census of 1905" by U. O. Schmelz in "Ottoman Palestine, 1800-1914: Studies in Economic and Social History." pages 16-47

Wrong again, Jews have been coming back to Israel for 2000 years, including during the Ottoman Empire, when they eventually became a majority in the 1800's. The Arabs are just 20th century invaders and imposters...

My post doesn't dispute anything you posted from the Jewish Encyclopedia. The Jewish population of the city of Jerusalem certainly increased over time until it became the majority. This does not, however, apply to Palestine as a whole. The native population (largely composed of Greeks, Romans, Phoenicians, etc.) gradually adopted the Arabic language, culture and religion in the centuries following the Arab conquests. Actual Arabs from Arabia were always a relatively small minority in Palestine, as were the Turks that followed them as rulers. Both Christianity and Judaism were tolerated by the Arabian Muslims.

Just because there were Jewish communities in the region throughout that time does not give European Zionists the right to colonise the region and dispossess the native population.

 

[Roudy]

In 1905 the Census figures Included the Kaza of Jerusalem (which included Abwein, Beit Jala, Bethlehem, Jerusalem, Ramallah and Saffa) which stated the Kaza contained a total of 110,200 Ottoman subjects, of whom 67,700 were Muslim, 28,800 Christian and 13,700 Jewish Ottomans. Of course the 1905 census did not include foreigners resident in the Kaza which the Ottomans estimated to be about 3,000 Christian and 21,000 Jewish Europeans\Westerners. The Sanjak of Jerusalem at the time included the Kazas of Hebron, Jaffa, Gaza and Beersheba as well as Jerusalem. The Kazas of Jerusalem and Hebron combined had a total population of over 168,000 so its unclear how the Catholic Encyclopedia source he cites arrives at the figures quoted. My figures come from "Population characteristics of Jerusalem and Hebron Regions according to Ottoman Census of 1905" by U. O. Schmelz in "Ottoman Palestine, 1800-1914: Studies in Economic and Social History." pages 16-47

Wrong again, Jews have been coming back to Israel for 2000 years, including during the Ottoman Empire, when they eventually became a majority in the 1800's. The Arabs are just 20th century invaders and imposters...

My post doesn't dispute anything you posted from the Jewish Encyclopedia. The Jewish population of the city of Jerusalem certainly increased over time until it became the majority. This does not, however, apply to Palestine as a whole. The native population (largely composed of Greeks, Romans, Phoenicians, etc.) gradually adopted the Arabic language, culture and religion in the centuries following the Arab conquests. Actual Arabs from Arabia were always a relatively small minority in Palestine, as were the Turks that followed them as rulers. Both Christianity and Judaism were tolerated by the Arabian Muslims.

Just because there were Jewish communities in the region throughout that time does not give European Zionists the right to colonise the region and dispossess the native population.

Bottom line: Jews kept migrating back to their holy land for 2000 years, as evidenced during the Ottoman Empire and leading up to the 1800's which created a majority in Jerusalem. Since there was NO MUSLIM MAJORITY in Jerusalem as far back as the 1400's, the Arab Muslim claim on it is hogwash, as they are 20th recent century invaders from neighboring Arab lands.

Israel has always been and will always be the Jewish holy land, first and foremost. The Jews that migrated back from Europe in the 1900's were joining their brethren in their ancestral holy land, and did so legally.

Case closed.

 

[montelatici]

Where does it confirm a high rate of migration by only the Jews ?

The census covered the Sanjak of Jerusalem not just the city and this shows that the area was nearly all of modern day Israel

Want to try again freddy boy ?

So, it is your contention that there were 16,270 people in the whole of Palestine in 1844. Interesting.

Not really, just another Phoney phail.

maybe you can find were I said that rat boy, or are you LYING again because the truth hurts.

Thanks for posting this Phoney:

"it was evident from these statements that "His Majesty's Government were not free to dispose of Palestine without regard for the wishes and interests of the inhabitants of Palestine,

Cherry picking again freddy boy, after saying that you don't.
here is the paragraph in full

170. With regard to the various statements mentioned in paragraph 168, the above committee considered that it was beyond its scope to express an opinion upon their proper interpretation, and that such opinion could not in any case be properly formed unless consideration had also been given to a number of other statements made during the war. In the opinion of the committee, however, it was evident from these statements that "His Majesty's Government were not free to dispose of Palestine without regard for the wishes and interests of the inhabitants of Palestine, and that these statements must all be taken into account in any attempt to estimate the responsibilities which—upon any interpretation of the correspondence—His Majesty's Government have incurred towards those inhabitants as a result of the correspondence
177. As to the claim that the Palestine Mandate violates Article 22 of the Covenant because the community of Palestine has not been recognized as an independent nation and because the mandatory was given full powers of legislation and administration, it has been rightly pointed out by the Peel Commission:" (a) That the provisional recognition of certain communities formerly belonging to the Turkish Empire as independent nations is permissible; the words are can be provisionally recognized, not 'will' or 'shall';

" (b) That the penultimate paragraph of Article 22 prescribes that the degree of authority to be exercised by the mandatory shall be defined, at need, by the Council of the League;

" (c) That the acceptance by the Allied Powers and the United States of the policy of the Ball-four Declaration made it clear from the beginning that Palestine would have been treated differently from Syria and Iraq, and that this difference of treatment was confirmed by the Supreme Council in the Treaty of Sevres and by the Council of the League in sanctioning the Mandate."154/

That notwithstanding the above, British reiterated that:

"it was evident from these statements that "His Majesty's Government were not free to dispose of Palestine without regard for the wishes and interests of the inhabitants of Palestine..."