Penn and Teller on the value of a college education

[rdean]

What a totally dumbass video. I am just finished three quarters at Portland State University. Of course, I was taking bullshit courses like Chemistry and Calculus. And the young people in class with me were nothing like portrayed here. Many of them were, like me, working and only going to college part time, half to three quarters load. And all seemed very serious about learning the subjects.

Right now, my company is having real problems recruiting material and mechanical engineers worldwide. The pay is good, the benefits, in all nations, above standard, but there are not enough applicants to fill the jobs. Here in the states, the same with craftsmen. Don't know about the worldwide situation there.

Higher education, in the appropriate field, whether at the technical level, or university level, is still the way for a more rewarding life and career.

Its the typical rightwing disdain for higher education

They think everyone majors in 18th century French Literature

Must you always be a tool? Conservatives don't hate education, they value it. There are in fact, far too many kids majoring in things like 18th century french literature. My 30 year old neice is STILL in school working on her PhD in medieval literature. 30 years old and she grades papers for the professors and fills in classes shen the professor is out. Her prospect for a real job in the future is some old white haired professor dying or teaching english in a high school or college.

My 20 year old (conservative like his old man) son is studying fire protection and safety technology in the engineering college at his university. He is spending the summer in an internship with BP on the north slope in Alaska. With overtime hours, he is averaging $30 per hour. His university is only one of two in the US with an accredited program for this field and only has about 200 students total in it. The vast majority of them spend their summers following their sophomore year in internships and have high paying jobs waiting for them when they graduate.

The difference? One is in a field where there is a real need and the other is pursuing what would better be described as a hobby. I'm not saying that colleges shouldn't provide a wide field of majors, but there is only so much call for history and english majors out in the work world.

Some very few conservatives value education. When you have Rick Santorum saying Obama is a snob for wanting education to be available to all Americans. Or the constant ridicule of scientists and universities by the right wing. Chinese, Indian and Mexican students see US schools as the finest in the world. Republicans see them as riddled with liberals and liberal thinkers. And the nonsense that comes out of so called "conservative think tanks". What a disgrace. How can you have so many conservatives on one message board who believe that saying "demand drives job creation" is one of the dumbest things they ever heard?

 

[JimBowie1958]

There are basically two excellent reasons to get an education or to educate yourself

1. To be a better person/citizen/human

2 To be a better tool/worker/DOer.

If you can manage to do both at once?

YEAH for you.

I'm not sure one needs to go to college for either of the above but I think in most cases college helps.

Your theory that college produces better people/citizens/humans is laughable. Judging by the current gang in the White House, there certainly isn't evidence of this.

"Gang"? Code for "black"?

That would have been a hilarious joke except that you are probably serious.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Its the typical rightwing disdain for higher education

They think everyone majors in 18th century French Literature

Must you always be a tool? Conservatives don't hate education, they value it. There are in fact, far too many kids majoring in things like 18th century french literature. My 30 year old neice is STILL in school working on her PhD in medieval literature. 30 years old and she grades papers for the professors and fills in classes shen the professor is out. Her prospect for a real job in the future is some old white haired professor dying or teaching english in a high school or college.

My 20 year old (conservative like his old man) son is studying fire protection and safety technology in the engineering college at his university. He is spending the summer in an internship with BP on the north slope in Alaska. With overtime hours, he is averaging $30 per hour. His university is only one of two in the US with an accredited program for this field and only has about 200 students total in it. The vast majority of them spend their summers following their sophomore year in internships and have high paying jobs waiting for them when they graduate.

The difference? One is in a field where there is a real need and the other is pursuing what would better be described as a hobby. I'm not saying that colleges shouldn't provide a wide field of majors, but there is only so much call for history and english majors out in the work world.

Some very few conservatives value education. When you have Rick Santorum saying Obama is a snob for wanting education to be available to all Americans. Or the constant ridicule of scientists and universities by the right wing. Chinese, Indian and Mexican students see US schools as the finest in the world. Republicans see them as riddled with liberals and liberal thinkers. And the nonsense that comes out of so called "conservative think tanks". What a disgrace. How can you have so many conservatives on one message board who believe that saying "demand drives job creation" is one of the dumbest things they ever heard?

Our engineering, economics and physics departments are respected the world over. But our humanities are a fucking joke the world over and it is the humanities that conservatives are usually going on about, though YEC do pick fights with science in various ways, they do not represent a majority of conservatives, nor of Santorum.

So, once again, you demonstrate that you do not know what the hell you are talking about, though it wont slow you down one nanosecond.

 

[rightwinger]

Must you always be a tool? Conservatives don't hate education, they value it. There are in fact, far too many kids majoring in things like 18th century french literature. My 30 year old neice is STILL in school working on her PhD in medieval literature. 30 years old and she grades papers for the professors and fills in classes shen the professor is out. Her prospect for a real job in the future is some old white haired professor dying or teaching english in a high school or college.

My 20 year old (conservative like his old man) son is studying fire protection and safety technology in the engineering college at his university. He is spending the summer in an internship with BP on the north slope in Alaska. With overtime hours, he is averaging $30 per hour. His university is only one of two in the US with an accredited program for this field and only has about 200 students total in it. The vast majority of them spend their summers following their sophomore year in internships and have high paying jobs waiting for them when they graduate.

The difference? One is in a field where there is a real need and the other is pursuing what would better be described as a hobby. I'm not saying that colleges shouldn't provide a wide field of majors, but there is only so much call for history and english majors out in the work world.

Some very few conservatives value education. When you have Rick Santorum saying Obama is a snob for wanting education to be available to all Americans. Or the constant ridicule of scientists and universities by the right wing. Chinese, Indian and Mexican students see US schools as the finest in the world. Republicans see them as riddled with liberals and liberal thinkers. And the nonsense that comes out of so called "conservative think tanks". What a disgrace. How can you have so many conservatives on one message board who believe that saying "demand drives job creation" is one of the dumbest things they ever heard?

Our engineering, economics and physics departments are respected the world over. But our humanities are a fucking joke the world over and it is the humanities that conservatives are usually going on about, though YEC do pick fights with science in various ways, they do not represent a majority of conservatives, nor of Santorum.

So, once again, you demonstrate that you do not know what the hell you are talking about, though it wont slow you down one nanosecond.

Yet, very few in those fields vote Republican

Shows more about Republican "values"

 

[Rozman]

I would love to see a breakdown of what degrees were given the last 10 years or so.
How many engineering degrees against how many Liberal Arts degrees for example.

 

[Rozman]

I wonder how many Libs have degrees in the study of the south Bolivian lesbian newt in a mostly
heterosexual rain forest.

 

[Rozman]

Heh ehh heheh....
That might have been my best post EVER....

 

[Rozman]

And I bet you can hear their voice come out of a speaker at some Burger King drive through.
But I give them props for working at least.

 

[midcan5]

The conservative dislike of education reminds me of their dislike of media, or even other bifurcated positions. Things are always good on this side of the tracks but wrong on that side. But in real world terms, all the college educated kids I know who preside in the upper middle to the upper classes are doing well, while the many without college, usually lower middle to working class, are making little and not doing very well. One can't do well on a Walmart associate salary. Both categories are well represented in our family and close friend social network - this is a real world observation.

The other oddity in this video is the idea that college makes the kids diverse liberal rational critical persons. That is the real BS of the piece, the children I know who grew up in conservative republican families cling to the same bifurcated views as most wingnuts on USMB. Penn and Teller's focus on diversity is another red flag that BS is about to hit you on the head. It seems all you need in P&T's world are few slogan words and you have figured it out. What that is is hard to say.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/educa...ew-of-waiting-for-superman-5.html#post7330811
'New data shows school “reformers” are full of it'

"Poor schools underperform largely because of economic forces, not because teachers have it too easy"

"Reality, though, is finally catching up with the “reform” movement’s propaganda. With poverty and inequality intensifying, a conversation about the real problem is finally starting to happen. And the more education “reformers” try to distract from it, the more they will expose the fact that they aren’t driven by concern for kids but by the ugliest kind of greed — the kind that feigns concerns for kids in order to pad the corporate bottom line." New data shows school ?reformers? are full of it - Salon.com


"The Nordic countries maintain their dynamism despite high taxation in several ways. Most important, they spend lavishly on research and development and higher education. All of them, but especially Sweden and Finland, have taken to the sweeping revolution in information and communications technology and leveraged it to gain global competitiveness. Sweden now spends nearly 4 percent of GDP on R&D, the highest ratio in the world today. On average, the Nordic nations spend 3 percent of GDP on R&D, compared with around 2 percent in the English-speaking nations." Jeffrey D. Sachs The Social Welfare State, beyond Ideology: Scientific American

PS I have managed people for many many years and your degree means little if you are not motivated. Give me a liberal arts student with the will to study and work, not the engineering degree lazy bones. Not that this holds up in all cases.

 

[Truthseeker420]

If Penn(or is it Teller? the fat one) is trying to be funny it failed. But comedy is subjective.

If he was going for truth he failed. I don't buy into Penn's(right wing ,Ann Rand disciple) interpretation of these people based on a few seconds of clips that may or may not have been taken out of context. Nor does it represent the college experience as a whole. And to use bigoted thought police witch hunter David Horowitz as a protector of free speech is laughable. He should stick to magic because he is good at fooling people.

 

[rightwinger]

I wonder how many Libs have degrees in the study of the south Bolivian lesbian newt in a mostly
heterosexual rain forest.

Most engineers and scientists are liberal

Conservatives get their degrees in "Christian Studies"

 

[PoliticalChic]

What a totally dumbass video. I am just finished three quarters at Portland State University. Of course, I was taking bullshit courses like Chemistry and Calculus. And the young people in class with me were nothing like portrayed here. Many of them were, like me, working and only going to college part time, half to three quarters load. And all seemed very serious about learning the subjects.

Right now, my company is having real problems recruiting material and mechanical engineers worldwide. The pay is good, the benefits, in all nations, above standard, but there are not enough applicants to fill the jobs. Here in the states, the same with craftsmen. Don't know about the worldwide situation there.

Higher education, in the appropriate field, whether at the technical level, or university level, is still the way for a more rewarding life and career.

Its the typical rightwing disdain for higher education

They think everyone majors in 18th century French Literature

Must you always be a tool? Conservatives don't hate education, they value it. There are in fact, far too many kids majoring in things like 18th century french literature. My 30 year old neice is STILL in school working on her PhD in medieval literature. 30 years old and she grades papers for the professors and fills in classes shen the professor is out. Her prospect for a real job in the future is some old white haired professor dying or teaching english in a high school or college.

My 20 year old (conservative like his old man) son is studying fire protection and safety technology in the engineering college at his university. He is spending the summer in an internship with BP on the north slope in Alaska. With overtime hours, he is averaging $30 per hour. His university is only one of two in the US with an accredited program for this field and only has about 200 students total in it. The vast majority of them spend their summers following their sophomore year in internships and have high paying jobs waiting for them when they graduate.

The difference? One is in a field where there is a real need and the other is pursuing what would better be described as a hobby. I'm not saying that colleges shouldn't provide a wide field of majors, but there is only so much call for history and english majors out in the work world.

"Conservatives don't hate education, they value it. There are in fact, far too many kids majoring in things like 18th century french literature."

You are so right....and Right!

Examples?


1. Wine Making. College isn't just about boozing after hours. Students at a host of schools can take viticulture -- learning to make wine from the grape growing to the grape stomping (or pressing these days) and beyond.
2. Golf Management. Four years on the links doesn't sound all that hard, but these students actually learn everything from how to keep a green "green" to hospitality.
3. Boilermaking. Not just the Purdue mascot, it's the study of how to make and repair steam parts.
4. Franchising. An entire line of study can help you run your own fast food chain. It's a far cry from flipping burgers.
5. Philology. A fancy name for the study of language. Take your pick from Tagalog to Urdu.
6. Meat Cutting. Thank a meat-cutting major for your steak tonight.
7. Home Ec. Yes, even in this day and age -- although they call it "family and consumer sciences" these days.
8. Home Furnishings and Equipment Installers. A roundabout way of saying "interior design," but they sound large and in charge this way.
9. Auctioneering. Classes to make you talk faster! New Yorkers need not apply.
10. Fashion and Fabric Consultation. Next stop: personal shopper.
11. Aromatherapy. You mean there's more to it than walking through Yankee Candle and taking home what smells good?
12. Human Sexuality. Let's talk about sex, baby! They do it at Widener University!
13. Canadian History. Our neighbor to the north is YOUNGER than the United States. And that's saying a lot.
14. Gunsmithing. As long as there's a right to bear arms, someone has to make them, right?
15. Mortuary Science and Embalming. Somebody's got to do it, but way to bring a pallor to your party days.
16. Logic. Can we sign everyone up for a year of this?
17. Security and Loss Prevention. They're NOT just mall cops apparently.
18. Cartooning. It's not a well-known college, but there's a school devoted entirely to comic books. Spider-Man eat your heart out.
19. Bagpiping. There's never a shortage of pipers at Scottish funerals ... or weddings ... thanks to Carnegie Mellon.
20. Sports Ministry. Get out there with your pastor and play paddleball at Belhaven. You'll be in sports heaven.
Would you pay for these?
Meatcutting and 19 More Strange College Majors Parents Are Paying For | The Stir

 

[rightwinger]

Its the typical rightwing disdain for higher education

They think everyone majors in 18th century French Literature

Must you always be a tool? Conservatives don't hate education, they value it. There are in fact, far too many kids majoring in things like 18th century french literature. My 30 year old neice is STILL in school working on her PhD in medieval literature. 30 years old and she grades papers for the professors and fills in classes shen the professor is out. Her prospect for a real job in the future is some old white haired professor dying or teaching english in a high school or college.

My 20 year old (conservative like his old man) son is studying fire protection and safety technology in the engineering college at his university. He is spending the summer in an internship with BP on the north slope in Alaska. With overtime hours, he is averaging $30 per hour. His university is only one of two in the US with an accredited program for this field and only has about 200 students total in it. The vast majority of them spend their summers following their sophomore year in internships and have high paying jobs waiting for them when they graduate.

The difference? One is in a field where there is a real need and the other is pursuing what would better be described as a hobby. I'm not saying that colleges shouldn't provide a wide field of majors, but there is only so much call for history and english majors out in the work world.

"Conservatives don't hate education, they value it. There are in fact, far too many kids majoring in things like 18th century french literature."

You are so right....and Right!

Examples?


1. Wine Making. College isn't just about boozing after hours. Students at a host of schools can take viticulture -- learning to make wine from the grape growing to the grape stomping (or pressing these days) and beyond.
2. Golf Management. Four years on the links doesn't sound all that hard, but these students actually learn everything from how to keep a green "green" to hospitality.
3. Boilermaking. Not just the Purdue mascot, it's the study of how to make and repair steam parts.
4. Franchising. An entire line of study can help you run your own fast food chain. It's a far cry from flipping burgers.
5. Philology. A fancy name for the study of language. Take your pick from Tagalog to Urdu.
6. Meat Cutting. Thank a meat-cutting major for your steak tonight.
7. Home Ec. Yes, even in this day and age -- although they call it "family and consumer sciences" these days.
8. Home Furnishings and Equipment Installers. A roundabout way of saying "interior design," but they sound large and in charge this way.
9. Auctioneering. Classes to make you talk faster! New Yorkers need not apply.
10. Fashion and Fabric Consultation. Next stop: personal shopper.
11. Aromatherapy. You mean there's more to it than walking through Yankee Candle and taking home what smells good?
12. Human Sexuality. Let's talk about sex, baby! They do it at Widener University!
13. Canadian History. Our neighbor to the north is YOUNGER than the United States. And that's saying a lot.
14. Gunsmithing. As long as there's a right to bear arms, someone has to make them, right?
15. Mortuary Science and Embalming. Somebody's got to do it, but way to bring a pallor to your party days.
16. Logic. Can we sign everyone up for a year of this?
17. Security and Loss Prevention. They're NOT just mall cops apparently.
18. Cartooning. It's not a well-known college, but there's a school devoted entirely to comic books. Spider-Man eat your heart out.
19. Bagpiping. There's never a shortage of pipers at Scottish funerals ... or weddings ... thanks to Carnegie Mellon.
20. Sports Ministry. Get out there with your pastor and play paddleball at Belhaven. You'll be in sports heaven.
Would you pay for these?
Meatcutting and 19 More Strange College Majors Parents Are Paying For | The Stir

Every one seems like a valid major

What did you major in?

 

[alan1]

Gotta love this,

The conservative dislike of education ...

when you start your post off with that kind of grossly false statement it kinda makes the rest of your opinion hard to accept.

That is the real BS of the piece, the children I know who grew up in conservative republican families cling to the same bifurcated views as most wingnuts on USMB.

Good thing you used the term "wingnuts", it adds validity to your point of view.

 

[rightwinger]

Gotta love this,

The conservative dislike of education ...

when you start your post off with that kind of grossly false statement it kinda makes the rest of your opinion hard to accept.

That is the real BS of the piece, the children I know who grew up in conservative republican families cling to the same bifurcated views as most wingnuts on USMB.

Good thing you used the term "wingnuts", it adds validity to your point of view.

Yup....Conservatives love education

As long as it is abolish the Dept of Education and Homeschool for everyone

 

[Old Rocks]

"Conservatives" hate real education. Look at their stands on global warming and such statements as "Rapes seldom result in pregnancy". Most "Conservatives" are the very people that took the 'basket weaving' courses at college.

And there are a number of vintners in the Willimette Valley that took a couple of hundred acres of hillside previously almost unused, and made them into million dollar operations. I think that PC has absolutely no real world skills, and is deterimined to denigrate all those that do.

 

[AmazonTania]

Gotta love this,

The conservative dislike of education ...

when you start your post off with that kind of grossly false statement it kinda makes the rest of your opinion hard to accept.

That is the real BS of the piece, the children I know who grew up in conservative republican families cling to the same bifurcated views as most wingnuts on USMB.

Good thing you used the term "wingnuts", it adds validity to your point of view.

Yup....Conservatives love education

As long as it is abolish the Dept of Education and Homeschool for everyone

There was Education before the Department of Education. One does not have to be old enough to remember.

 

[AmazonTania]

What a totally dumbass video. I am just finished three quarters at Portland State University. Of course, I was taking bullshit courses like Chemistry and Calculus. And the young people in class with me were nothing like portrayed here. Many of them were, like me, working and only going to college part time, half to three quarters load. And all seemed very serious about learning the subjects.

Right now, my company is having real problems recruiting material and mechanical engineers worldwide. The pay is good, the benefits, in all nations, above standard, but there are not enough applicants to fill the jobs. Here in the states, the same with craftsmen. Don't know about the worldwide situation there.

Higher education, in the appropriate field, whether at the technical level, or university level, is still the way for a more rewarding life and career.

Not in this economy.

 

[rightwinger]

Gotta love this,

when you start your post off with that kind of grossly false statement it kinda makes the rest of your opinion hard to accept.

Good thing you used the term "wingnuts", it adds validity to your point of view.

Yup....Conservatives love education

As long as it is abolish the Dept of Education and Homeschool for everyone

There was Education before the Department of Education. One does not have to be old enough to remember.

Meaning squat

The US has a hodgepodge of education with communities giving varying emphasis on education. Sadly, the poorest performing schools tend to be in those Red States most intent on eliminating the Dept of Education

 

[martybegan]

I wonder how many Libs have degrees in the study of the south Bolivian lesbian newt in a mostly
heterosexual rain forest.

Most engineers and scientists are liberal

Conservatives get their degrees in "Christian Studies"

Scientists maybe, but Engineers not so much. Unlike scientists Engineers such as myself have to ground ourselves in the realities of economics and feasability, things that lead to a more conservative outlook than the theoretical folks.