Penn and Teller on the value of a college education

[Skull Pilot]

The DOE provides about 10% of the funding for our schools.

Which is why we don't need it since it costs more than it contributes.

If you look at the countries that are kicking our butts in education, a common theme is that they have more national control of the education system....not LESS

Since we instituted the D.O.E we have sunk in national standings.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Its the typical rightwing disdain for higher education

They think everyone majors in 18th century French Literature

10 Most Popular Bachelors Degrees In 2011

Notice that the top 10 bachelor degrees include Psychology, Criminal Justice, and Human services.

Now most of those folks with those degrees will have wasted their time and money getting them.

Not disdain, just fact.

I have been trying to find a source for the numbers of degrees issued by ranking, and all i can find is links similar to this. To me "popular" may not translate into # of degrees issued.

Seeing engineering on the list makes me skeptical, as by # of degrees I wouldnt expect to see engineering that high up there.

Best and Most Popular College Majors - College Stats.org

25 college majors with the highest unemployment rates - CBS News

Top 10 Useless College Degrees & Classes - Toptenz.net

 

[rightwinger]

Which is why we don't need it since it costs more than it contributes.

If you look at the countries that are kicking our butts in education, a common theme is that they have more national control of the education system....not LESS

Since we instituted the D.O.E we have sunk in national standings.

Can you demonstrate a cause and effect?

I would argue that since we started listening to Reagan Republicans we have sunk in national standings

 

[Skull Pilot]

If you look at the countries that are kicking our butts in education, a common theme is that they have more national control of the education system....not LESS

Since we instituted the D.O.E we have sunk in national standings.

Can you demonstrate a cause and effect?

Don't need to. it was the last major policy change in US education.

Before the DOE we put men on the moon. After the DOE we have kids who can't make change for a dollar.

 

[JimBowie1958]

The DOE provides about 10% of the funding for our schools.

Yeah after taking our taxes and then giving part of it back, I guess we should all be grateful that not ALL our taxes go into Chicago political machine patronage.

If you have a problem with our schools, you need to go after the local and state governments and are providing 90% of the funding and have the most control over the quality of our education
Homeschool is a niche market and not a solution to our current educational issues

Only because libtard fascists like you stonewall all attempts to assist parents that educate their children at home. lol, you prevent much funding and support if any at all then use the low participation from that to support your claims? What a fucking lying bastard.

Homeschooling is a gimmic, not a solution

THe majority of American families can no longer afford to keep one parent home to educate the children. There are also limitations on the educational capabilities of the parents

Again more bullshit. lol, libtards kill the economy then use that income shortage to defend their piss poor educational policies.

Only 57% of married women (with children and husbands still living at home) were employed, and only 60% of those were full time year round employees or 34% of all married women with children and a father at home.

Most women that have a choice are not employed full time and can afford to homeschool their children.

Why are you such a damned liar?

 

[rightwinger]

Yeah after taking our taxes and then giving part of it back, I guess we should all be grateful that not ALL our taxes go into Chicago political machine patronage.



Only because libtard fascists like you stonewall all attempts to assist parents that educate their children at home. lol, you prevent much funding and support if any at all then use the low participation from that to support your claims? What a fucking lying bastard.

Homeschooling is a gimmic, not a solution

THe majority of American families can no longer afford to keep one parent home to educate the children. There are also limitations on the educational capabilities of the parents

Again more bullshit. lol, libtards kill the economy then use that income shortage to defend their piss poor educational policies.

Only 57% of married women (with children and husbands still living at home) were employed, and only 60% of those were full time year round employees or 34% of all married women with children and a father at home.

Most women that have a choice are not employed full time and can afford to homeschool their children.

Why are you such a damned liar?

What is their education? You conveniently leave out single parents

Your assumption that because some are successful that all will be is seriously flawed

 

[JimBowie1958]

Homeschooling is a gimmic, not a solution

THe majority of American families can no longer afford to keep one parent home to educate the children. There are also limitations on the educational capabilities of the parents

Again more bullshit. lol, libtards kill the economy then use that income shortage to defend their piss poor educational policies.

Only 57% of married women (with children and husbands still living at home) were employed, and only 60% of those were full time year round employees or 34% of all married women with children and a father at home.

Most women that have a choice are not employed full time and can afford to homeschool their children.

Why are you such a damned liar?

What is their education? You conveniently leave out single parents

I was not addressing single moms, so of course they are left out.

Your assumption that because some are successful that all will be is seriously flawed

Not my assumption; I am arguing for the ability of those WHO CAN CHOOSE to be allowed to do so, fascist.

 

[Skull Pilot]

See the dimwitcraps think that when someone says that not everyone needs a college education that they think education is unnecessary just like when someone says we don't need a huge government they go right to the anarchy spiel .

 

[whitehall]

There are about 22 Million students in college today. Do comedians and left wingers think a college education is a secret? The problem is that college graduates can't find jobs except in the over inflated education system.

 

[Skull Pilot]

There are about 22 Million students in college today. Do comedians and left wingers think a college education is a secret? The problem is that college graduates can't find jobs except in the over inflated education system.

A large portion of those kids would do better to go into the trades. We have a scarcity of skilled labor in this country because the effete snobs that are the dimwitcraps have convinced people that they have to go to college and that work in the trades even though it can be as or more lucrative as any job requiring a generic bachelors' degree is somehow undesirable.

 

[kwc57]

Its the typical rightwing disdain for higher education

They think everyone majors in 18th century French Literature

Must you always be a tool? Conservatives don't hate education, they value it. There are in fact, far too many kids majoring in things like 18th century french literature. My 30 year old neice is STILL in school working on her PhD in medieval literature. 30 years old and she grades papers for the professors and fills in classes shen the professor is out. Her prospect for a real job in the future is some old white haired professor dying or teaching english in a high school or college.

My 20 year old (conservative like his old man) son is studying fire protection and safety technology in the engineering college at his university. He is spending the summer in an internship with BP on the north slope in Alaska. With overtime hours, he is averaging $30 per hour. His university is only one of two in the US with an accredited program for this field and only has about 200 students total in it. The vast majority of them spend their summers following their sophomore year in internships and have high paying jobs waiting for them when they graduate.

The difference? One is in a field where there is a real need and the other is pursuing what would better be described as a hobby. I'm not saying that colleges shouldn't provide a wide field of majors, but there is only so much call for history and english majors out in the work world.

So following ones passion is a bad thing?

Not at all.........unless it won't feed you or pay the bills. In that case, it's better to get an education and do a job that will and follow your passion as a hobby.

 

[kwc57]

I wonder how many Libs have degrees in the study of the south Bolivian lesbian newt in a mostly
heterosexual rain forest.

Most engineers and scientists are liberal

Conservatives get their degrees in "Christian Studies"

Scientists maybe, but Engineers not so much. Unlike scientists Engineers such as myself have to ground ourselves in the realities of economics and feasability, things that lead to a more conservative outlook than the theoretical folks.

Yep. My son is an engineering student and I've gotten to know a number of his classmates as well as a good number of adult friends who are engineers. I don't know a single one who is liberal.

 

[kwc57]

"Conservatives don't hate education, they value it. There are in fact, far too many kids majoring in things like 18th century french literature."

You are so right....and Right!

Examples?


1. Wine Making. College isn't just about boozing after hours. Students at a host of schools can take viticulture -- learning to make wine from the grape growing to the grape stomping (or pressing these days) and beyond.
2. Golf Management. Four years on the links doesn't sound all that hard, but these students actually learn everything from how to keep a green "green" to hospitality.
3. Boilermaking. Not just the Purdue mascot, it's the study of how to make and repair steam parts.
4. Franchising. An entire line of study can help you run your own fast food chain. It's a far cry from flipping burgers.
5. Philology. A fancy name for the study of language. Take your pick from Tagalog to Urdu.
6. Meat Cutting. Thank a meat-cutting major for your steak tonight.
7. Home Ec. Yes, even in this day and age -- although they call it "family and consumer sciences" these days.
8. Home Furnishings and Equipment Installers. A roundabout way of saying "interior design," but they sound large and in charge this way.
9. Auctioneering. Classes to make you talk faster! New Yorkers need not apply.
10. Fashion and Fabric Consultation. Next stop: personal shopper.
11. Aromatherapy. You mean there's more to it than walking through Yankee Candle and taking home what smells good?
12. Human Sexuality. Let's talk about sex, baby! They do it at Widener University!
13. Canadian History. Our neighbor to the north is YOUNGER than the United States. And that's saying a lot.
14. Gunsmithing. As long as there's a right to bear arms, someone has to make them, right?
15. Mortuary Science and Embalming. Somebody's got to do it, but way to bring a pallor to your party days.
16. Logic. Can we sign everyone up for a year of this?
17. Security and Loss Prevention. They're NOT just mall cops apparently.
18. Cartooning. It's not a well-known college, but there's a school devoted entirely to comic books. Spider-Man eat your heart out.
19. Bagpiping. There's never a shortage of pipers at Scottish funerals ... or weddings ... thanks to Carnegie Mellon.
20. Sports Ministry. Get out there with your pastor and play paddleball at Belhaven. You'll be in sports heaven.
Would you pay for these?
Meatcutting and 19 More Strange College Majors Parents Are Paying For | The Stir

Every one seems like a valid major

What did you major in?

They point to a subject they know nothing about, ridicule it, then say, "See how dumb". Right wingers are a damaged people.

Not at all. Liberals just aren't intelligent enough to understand adult subjects.

 

[kwc57]

Must you always be a tool? Conservatives don't hate education, they value it. There are in fact, far too many kids majoring in things like 18th century french literature. My 30 year old neice is STILL in school working on her PhD in medieval literature. 30 years old and she grades papers for the professors and fills in classes shen the professor is out. Her prospect for a real job in the future is some old white haired professor dying or teaching english in a high school or college.

My 20 year old (conservative like his old man) son is studying fire protection and safety technology in the engineering college at his university. He is spending the summer in an internship with BP on the north slope in Alaska. With overtime hours, he is averaging $30 per hour. His university is only one of two in the US with an accredited program for this field and only has about 200 students total in it. The vast majority of them spend their summers following their sophomore year in internships and have high paying jobs waiting for them when they graduate.

The difference? One is in a field where there is a real need and the other is pursuing what would better be described as a hobby. I'm not saying that colleges shouldn't provide a wide field of majors, but there is only so much call for history and english majors out in the work world.

"Conservatives don't hate education, they value it. There are in fact, far too many kids majoring in things like 18th century french literature."

You are so right....and Right!

Examples?


1. Wine Making. College isn't just about boozing after hours. Students at a host of schools can take viticulture -- learning to make wine from the grape growing to the grape stomping (or pressing these days) and beyond.
2. Golf Management. Four years on the links doesn't sound all that hard, but these students actually learn everything from how to keep a green "green" to hospitality.
3. Boilermaking. Not just the Purdue mascot, it's the study of how to make and repair steam parts.
4. Franchising. An entire line of study can help you run your own fast food chain. It's a far cry from flipping burgers.
5. Philology. A fancy name for the study of language. Take your pick from Tagalog to Urdu.
6. Meat Cutting. Thank a meat-cutting major for your steak tonight.
7. Home Ec. Yes, even in this day and age -- although they call it "family and consumer sciences" these days.
8. Home Furnishings and Equipment Installers. A roundabout way of saying "interior design," but they sound large and in charge this way.
9. Auctioneering. Classes to make you talk faster! New Yorkers need not apply.
10. Fashion and Fabric Consultation. Next stop: personal shopper.
11. Aromatherapy. You mean there's more to it than walking through Yankee Candle and taking home what smells good?
12. Human Sexuality. Let's talk about sex, baby! They do it at Widener University!
13. Canadian History. Our neighbor to the north is YOUNGER than the United States. And that's saying a lot.
14. Gunsmithing. As long as there's a right to bear arms, someone has to make them, right?
15. Mortuary Science and Embalming. Somebody's got to do it, but way to bring a pallor to your party days.
16. Logic. Can we sign everyone up for a year of this?
17. Security and Loss Prevention. They're NOT just mall cops apparently.
18. Cartooning. It's not a well-known college, but there's a school devoted entirely to comic books. Spider-Man eat your heart out.
19. Bagpiping. There's never a shortage of pipers at Scottish funerals ... or weddings ... thanks to Carnegie Mellon.
20. Sports Ministry. Get out there with your pastor and play paddleball at Belhaven. You'll be in sports heaven.
Would you pay for these?
Meatcutting and 19 More Strange College Majors Parents Are Paying For | The Stir

Every one seems like a valid major

What did you major in?

Not for what college costs. Many are trade school material.

 

[rightwinger]

"Conservatives don't hate education, they value it. There are in fact, far too many kids majoring in things like 18th century french literature."

You are so right....and Right!

Examples?


1. Wine Making. College isn't just about boozing after hours. Students at a host of schools can take viticulture -- learning to make wine from the grape growing to the grape stomping (or pressing these days) and beyond.
2. Golf Management. Four years on the links doesn't sound all that hard, but these students actually learn everything from how to keep a green "green" to hospitality.
3. Boilermaking. Not just the Purdue mascot, it's the study of how to make and repair steam parts.
4. Franchising. An entire line of study can help you run your own fast food chain. It's a far cry from flipping burgers.
5. Philology. A fancy name for the study of language. Take your pick from Tagalog to Urdu.
6. Meat Cutting. Thank a meat-cutting major for your steak tonight.
7. Home Ec. Yes, even in this day and age -- although they call it "family and consumer sciences" these days.
8. Home Furnishings and Equipment Installers. A roundabout way of saying "interior design," but they sound large and in charge this way.
9. Auctioneering. Classes to make you talk faster! New Yorkers need not apply.
10. Fashion and Fabric Consultation. Next stop: personal shopper.
11. Aromatherapy. You mean there's more to it than walking through Yankee Candle and taking home what smells good?
12. Human Sexuality. Let's talk about sex, baby! They do it at Widener University!
13. Canadian History. Our neighbor to the north is YOUNGER than the United States. And that's saying a lot.
14. Gunsmithing. As long as there's a right to bear arms, someone has to make them, right?
15. Mortuary Science and Embalming. Somebody's got to do it, but way to bring a pallor to your party days.
16. Logic. Can we sign everyone up for a year of this?
17. Security and Loss Prevention. They're NOT just mall cops apparently.
18. Cartooning. It's not a well-known college, but there's a school devoted entirely to comic books. Spider-Man eat your heart out.
19. Bagpiping. There's never a shortage of pipers at Scottish funerals ... or weddings ... thanks to Carnegie Mellon.
20. Sports Ministry. Get out there with your pastor and play paddleball at Belhaven. You'll be in sports heaven.
Would you pay for these?
Meatcutting and 19 More Strange College Majors Parents Are Paying For | The Stir

Every one seems like a valid major

What did you major in?

Not for what college costs. Many are trade school material.

True....and trade school ain't cheap either

Boilermaking Yes......Designing boilers University
Meat Cutting Yes.....Running a meat cutting facility University
Auctioneering Yes
Gunsmithing Yes.......Designing weapons University

 

[rdean]

Since we instituted the D.O.E we have sunk in national standings.

Can you demonstrate a cause and effect?

Don't need to. it was the last major policy change in US education.

Before the DOE we put men on the moon. After the DOE we have kids who can't make change for a dollar.

And Rick Santorum saying the president is a snob for wanting education to be availible for all Americans and Republicans cheered.

 

[rdean]

Top Engineering Schools | Best Engineering Programs | US News

Funny, when you look at the top RANKED colleges and universities in the country, so many are in those dreaded Blue States.

Foreign students examine benefits of studying in U.S.

One reason students pick America to study is the country's strong reputation when it comes to higher education. Thirteen of the 20 best world universities are located on American soil, according to Quacquarelli Symonds World University ranking.

Anthony Bailey, the vice provost for global initiatives at the University of Southern California in Los Angeles, says this is true for many of his school's international students.

"The U.S. has a lot of top universities and that is a big draw," he says. "There are so many education options here."

----------------------------------------

Is there any connection between what Republicans think about education and what the rest of the world thinks about Republicans?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Can you demonstrate a cause and effect?

Don't need to. it was the last major policy change in US education.

Before the DOE we put men on the moon. After the DOE we have kids who can't make change for a dollar.

And Rick Santorum saying the president is a snob for wanting education to be availible for all Americans and Republicans cheered.

I don't really care what Santorum says I wouldn't vote for him if you paid me.

The fact is that not everyone needs to go to college and many people would be better off if they didn't.

 

[squeeze berry]

Gotta love this,

The conservative dislike of education ...

when you start your post off with that kind of grossly false statement it kinda makes the rest of your opinion hard to accept.

That is the real BS of the piece, the children I know who grew up in conservative republican families cling to the same bifurcated views as most wingnuts on USMB.

Good thing you used the term "wingnuts", it adds validity to your point of view.

Yup....Conservatives love education

As long as it is abolish the Dept of Education and Homeschool for everyone

after having your ass handed to you one would think you would shut the fuck up.

but no............... more bullshit

 

[kwc57]

Every one seems like a valid major

What did you major in?

Not for what college costs. Many are trade school material.

True....and trade school ain't cheap either

Boilermaking Yes......Designing boilers University
Meat Cutting Yes.....Running a meat cutting facility University
Auctioneering Yes
Gunsmithing Yes.......Designing weapons University

Didn't say it was cheap, but it is cheaper than a 4 year university bachlors degree.