Please explain why you Republicans support the wealthy over your own middle class?

[eflatminor]

I prefer nonfiction over fiction.

An ad hominem attack from a lefty. Shocking.

Any chance you could actually critique this book or this man's writing using facts or even logic and reason? Could you possibly make a coherent argument that isn't based in emotion or attacking the man? I'd love to hear it.

Mises and basically the entirety of Libertarian economics is based on ideas that look great on paper but fail in reality due to inevitable externalities in the market.

It's very similar to how Communism fails in reality, but just in the opposite extreme.

Please point to where a Libertarian economy has existed and where it failed. I can point to hundreds of centrally planned economies under scores of different names that have failed. Can you name one Libertarian failure? Just one?

 

[Utilitarian]

'Give us what we want.. or we'll steal it from you'

Sorry... I don't coddle thieves.. whether you threaten to steal it one way or another

Well, pilgrim, I hope your aim is good.

Internet tough guy, eh?

Well yeah... He believes he can fight off an angry underclass. I don't make that claim.

If we ended all social programs tomorrow, you'd definitely need some ammo to keep around.

 

[Si modo]

Well, pilgrim, I hope your aim is good.

Internet tough guy, eh?

Well yeah... He believes he can fight off an angry underclass. I don't make that claim.

If we ended all social programs tomorrow, you'd definitely need some ammo to keep around.

The Second Amendment is in place for a reason.

 

[Avatar4321]

An ad hominem attack from a lefty. Shocking.

Any chance you could actually critique this book or this man's writing using facts or even logic and reason? Could you possibly make a coherent argument that isn't based in emotion or attacking the man? I'd love to hear it.

Mises and basically the entirety of Libertarian economics is based on ideas that look great on paper but fail in reality due to inevitable externalities in the market.

It's very similar to how Communism fails in reality, but just in the opposite extreme.

Please point to where a Libertarian economy has existed and where it failed. I can point to hundreds of centrally planned economies under scores of different names that have failed. Can you name one Libertarian failure? Just one?

No. He can't.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Did someone make a bad choice if they were born paraplegic?

No.

But then, some paraplegics make good choices and reach great heights.

Did someone make a bad choice if a drunk driver hit them and handicapped them as a result?

If they did, then they are liable for the damages.

There are any number of things outside of your control that can happen in life, but it's always Libertarians that brush these things aside in favor of ideology.

Nonsense, Libertarians fully recognize the uncertainty of life. We just view insurance and private support mechanisms as more equitable than an ever growing central government.

That's part of why I can't agree with you guys.

Do you honestly think that Libertarians throw people into the streets to die?

(That was the communists who did that - literally.)

 

[Cuyo]

Who knew that when I support individual liberty and freedom for all and equality that I am anti-middle class?

If you vote republican, you only support the illusions of those things. Those things are not what they're about; They're just bumper stickers. Republicans trick people like yourself who suffer from their policies by appealing to a part of the brain, specifically the basal ganglia or the "Reptilian Brain."

What they really advocate for is aristocracy, and damned if they ain't winning that fight.

Cuyo. I'm a hell of a lot brighter than you give me credit.

1. Likewise,
2. Then you must know I'm exactly right in what I said.

 

[Utilitarian]

An ad hominem attack from a lefty. Shocking.

Any chance you could actually critique this book or this man's writing using facts or even logic and reason? Could you possibly make a coherent argument that isn't based in emotion or attacking the man? I'd love to hear it.

Mises and basically the entirety of Libertarian economics is based on ideas that look great on paper but fail in reality due to inevitable externalities in the market.

It's very similar to how Communism fails in reality, but just in the opposite extreme.

Please point to where a Libertarian economy has existed and where it failed. I can point to hundreds of centrally planned economies under scores of different names that have failed. Can you name one Libertarian failure? Just one?

And we see how Libertarian logic works. You see, no actual Communism has existed either. When Lenin and Stalin got ahold of Marx's ideas, what they put into place instead was a totalitarian state. Marx actually had a lot more in common with anarchists than most people realize.

Yet, the fact that a true Communism has never existed doesn't validate its feasibility anymore than the fact that a purely free market has never existed.

So, in effect, what a strict libertarian advocates is for a system that has never existed, just like Communists.

So, yes, I can't point to a pure Libertarian system failure, but I also can't point to the success of one either.

Government will always exist, and no market will ever be 100% free.

 

[eflatminor]

We haven't seen income equality like this since the robber barons. Ignoring that is stupid.

Actually income equality is wider today than the robber baron days. Therefore, when there was very little government meddling in business, we had LESS income inequality, not more. Starting to see the picture here?

More importantly, please explain why income inequality is a bad thing. If a guy is smart, works hard, makes good decisions in launching a business to sell a product that the people want, he'll make good money. How is that bad for anyone else?

Our country was strongest with a strong Middle Class. The income inequality we are experiencing is destroying the Middle Class...the ACTUAL "job creators".

Again, ignoring that is stupid...almost as stupid as thinking the free market will regulate itself and that the modern day Robber Barons will pay a living wage out of the goodness of their generous hearts.

Income inequality does not destroy the middle class! Again, show us how a guy getting rich automatically means someone else gets less. Wealth is not a finite thing. It can be created or destroyed. It's not some pie to cut up evenly!

 

[eflatminor]

I know we'll probably never agree on this, but success and failure are only partially within your own control.

We will NEVER agree on that. If you are fat and miserable it is because you made every choice that was required to be fat and miserable. Stop blaming others for your bad choices.

Did someone make a bad choice if they were born paraplegic?

Did someone make a bad choice if a drunk driver hit them and handicapped them as a result?

There are any number of things outside of your control that can happen in life, but it's always Libertarians that brush these things aside in favor of ideology. That's part of why I can't agree with you guys.

This assumes that a paraplegic or a handicapped person cannot be successful. How bigoted of you!

 

[SAT]

It looks like most posters ignore Chic's cut-and-paste-and-then-pat-her-own-back posts.

Good call.

Anyway, what we're seeing is not a longing for a return to an aristocracy, but an apparent longing for good old feudalism. The right wingers have allegiance to their overlords, and hope that someday their personal merit will be recognized and rewarded by their betters.

There's not a good reason for Warren Buffet paying a lower tax rate than his secretary. There are reasons, they just aren't good reasons.

You know who loved the progressive income tax? Adam Smith.

Isn't that interesting?

 

[Utilitarian]

Nonsense, Libertarians fully recognize the uncertainty of life. We just view insurance and private support mechanisms as more equitable than an ever growing central government.

I guess you haven't dealt with many insurance companies.

 

[rdean]

Please explain Americans why you Republicans support the wealthy over your own middle class?

I could never understand why the misguided mouthpieces in the Republican Party continue to make excuses for the top 1% wealthiest while dissing their own in the middle class. Cowards and Traitors, the bunch of ya. While the middle class is trying to unite against the wealthiest, some in the middle class are playing the Benedict Arnold role - all in the name of the Grand Ol' Party.

Shameless Cowards - the lot of you

-----

Define "support".

Voter suppression, tax breaks, tax cuts, subsidies. Did that really have to be explained?

 

[Intense]

Please explain Americans why you Republicans support the wealthy over your own middle class?

I could never understand why the misguided mouthpieces in the Republican Party continue to make excuses for the top 1% wealthiest while dissing their own in the middle class. Cowards and Traitors, the bunch of ya. While the middle class is trying to unite against the wealthiest, some in the middle class are playing the Benedict Arnold role - all in the name of the Grand Ol' Party.

Shameless Cowards - the lot of you

-----

I support Private Property Rights, Rich or Poor. Our Nation was founded, in part on that. Your Property Rights, are part of your Defense against the Tyranny of the State. By denying Others, you are the Traitor, Criminal, and Coward. You are correct in one thing. You don't know.

 

[Utilitarian]

We will NEVER agree on that. If you are fat and miserable it is because you made every choice that was required to be fat and miserable. Stop blaming others for your bad choices.

Did someone make a bad choice if they were born paraplegic?

Did someone make a bad choice if a drunk driver hit them and handicapped them as a result?

There are any number of things outside of your control that can happen in life, but it's always Libertarians that brush these things aside in favor of ideology. That's part of why I can't agree with you guys.

This assumes that a paraplegic or a handicapped person cannot be successful. How bigoted of you!

Yeah, that's exactly what I said...

 

[PoliticalChic]

We haven't seen income equality like this since the robber barons. Ignoring that is stupid.

Actually income equality is wider today than the robber baron days. Therefore, when there was very little government meddling in business, we had LESS income inequality, not more. Starting to see the picture here?

More importantly, please explain why income inequality is a bad thing. If a guy is smart, works hard, makes good decisions in launching a business to sell a product that the people want, he'll make good money. How is that bad for anyone else?

Our country was strongest with a strong Middle Class. The income inequality we are experiencing is destroying the Middle Class...the ACTUAL "job creators".

Again, ignoring that is stupid...almost as stupid as thinking the free market will regulate itself and that the modern day Robber Barons will pay a living wage out of the goodness of their generous hearts.

Sandwich, if you ever decide to pick up a book, try Thomas Sowell's "Economic Facts and Fallacies."

Chapter five covers this exact fallacy...with graphs and everything...even you will understand it.

Here, let me start you off in the right directon:

fal·la·cy/ˈfaləsē/

Noun:

1.A mistaken belief, esp. one based on unsound argument.
2.A failure in reasoning that renders an argument invalid.

 

[eflatminor]

Mises and basically the entirety of Libertarian economics is based on ideas that look great on paper but fail in reality due to inevitable externalities in the market.

It's very similar to how Communism fails in reality, but just in the opposite extreme.

Please point to where a Libertarian economy has existed and where it failed. I can point to hundreds of centrally planned economies under scores of different names that have failed. Can you name one Libertarian failure? Just one?

And we see how Libertarian logic works. You see, no actual Communism has existed either. When Lenin and Stalin got ahold of Marx's ideas, what they put into place instead was a totalitarian state. Marx actually had a lot more in common with anarchists than most people realize.

Yet, the fact that a true Communism has never existed doesn't validate its feasibility anymore than the fact that a purely free market has never existed.

So, in effect, what a strict libertarian advocates is for a system that has never existed, just like Communists.

So, yes, I can't point to a pure Libertarian system failure, but I also can't point to the success of one either.

Government will always exist, and no market will ever be 100% free.

What you overlook is that true CENTRAL PLANNING, whatever you want to call it, has always existed and it always fails. Only limited government as envision in the founding of this country has ever proved to bring more people out of poverty and turned more middle class into rich people. America became the richest country the world has ever know precisely because we rejected central planning...which people like you insist on bringing back despite the history of its failing.

 

[rdean]

Please explain Americans why you Republicans support the wealthy over your own middle class?

I could never understand why the misguided mouthpieces in the Republican Party continue to make excuses for the top 1% wealthiest while dissing their own in the middle class. Cowards and Traitors, the bunch of ya. While the middle class is trying to unite against the wealthiest, some in the middle class are playing the Benedict Arnold role - all in the name of the Grand Ol' Party.

Shameless Cowards - the lot of you

-----

Each and every Republican thinks their "ship will come in". That they are millionaires currently without funds. The money they are protecting is the money they will have after they "build wealth" or "win the Lotto". Most are lucky if they don't lose their trailer after they go bankrupt from the medical bills.

 

[Intense]

Please explain Americans why you Republicans support the wealthy over your own middle class?

I could never understand why the misguided mouthpieces in the Republican Party continue to make excuses for the top 1% wealthiest while dissing their own in the middle class. Cowards and Traitors, the bunch of ya. While the middle class is trying to unite against the wealthiest, some in the middle class are playing the Benedict Arnold role - all in the name of the Grand Ol' Party.

Shameless Cowards - the lot of you

-----

Define "support".

Voter suppression, tax breaks, tax cuts, subsidies. Did that really have to be explained?

It's not Voter Suppression, It's Maintaining the Credibility of the Election.

Flat Tax, Include Every Citizen that Earns Income, No Exceptions.

No Subsidies, get Government out of the Market Place, other than Regulation of Standards.

End the Monopolies where they cannot be justified.

 

[Utilitarian]

Please point to where a Libertarian economy has existed and where it failed. I can point to hundreds of centrally planned economies under scores of different names that have failed. Can you name one Libertarian failure? Just one?

And we see how Libertarian logic works. You see, no actual Communism has existed either. When Lenin and Stalin got ahold of Marx's ideas, what they put into place instead was a totalitarian state. Marx actually had a lot more in common with anarchists than most people realize.

Yet, the fact that a true Communism has never existed doesn't validate its feasibility anymore than the fact that a purely free market has never existed.

So, in effect, what a strict libertarian advocates is for a system that has never existed, just like Communists.

So, yes, I can't point to a pure Libertarian system failure, but I also can't point to the success of one either.

Government will always exist, and no market will ever be 100% free.

What you overlook is that true CENTRAL PLANNING, whatever you want to call it, has always existed and it always fails. Only limited government as envision in the founding of this country has ever proved to bring more people out of poverty and turned more middle class into rich people. America became the richest country the world has ever know precisely because we rejected central planning...which people like you insist on bringing back despite the history of its failing.

Was the Interstate Highway System a failure? Was the development of our military infrastructure leading up to WW2 a failure? Was NASA a failure?

The most successful economies MIX planning with privatization. It's not an either or thing like so many Libertarians seem to assume.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Please explain Americans why you Republicans support the wealthy over your own middle class?

I could never understand why the misguided mouthpieces in the Republican Party continue to make excuses for the top 1% wealthiest while dissing their own in the middle class. Cowards and Traitors, the bunch of ya. While the middle class is trying to unite against the wealthiest, some in the middle class are playing the Benedict Arnold role - all in the name of the Grand Ol' Party.

Shameless Cowards - the lot of you

-----

I support Private Property Rights, Rich or Poor. Our Nation was founded, in part on that. Your Property Rights, are part of your Defense against the Tyranny of the State. By denying Others, you are the Traitor, Criminal, and Coward. You are correct in one thing. You don't know.

Of course, you are correct.

And you are probably aware of the fact that John Locke's statement on which our D of I motto of "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness..." was based, was
Life, liberty and property.

The change was due to the wish not to allow slaves to be defined as property.