Plenty of "Good Guys with Guns" But 6 Injured Anyway

[Brain357]

I love how you guys want to claim you can reload so fast capacity doesn't matter. Then out of the other side of your mouth criminals will go to extremes to get hi cap magazines. You guys don't believe your own arguments, why should I?

 

[WinterBorn]

Well then make one now and take pictures and document the steps. But again why bother if you can reload so fast? I'm not sure you guys believe your own arguments.

who the fuck are you to make such demands

I'm asking you to prove your false claim. Only a half hour right? Get to it.

You are seriously fixated on the magazine capacity. I still don't think it will make as much difference.

I know when I am target shooting, I am far more likely to rapid fire and not aim as carefully when I know I have a full magazine or when I have a 25 round mag in the .22. When I have fewer rounds I am more careful.

Someone with fewer rounds might pay more careful attention. That would have the opposite effect of what you want. These mass shooters are typically lousy shots.

 

[bripat9643]

We aren't discussing how many times police fire. The study doesn't lie. I notice you posted no links to back anything up. Try facts.

Since the police are supposedly better trained than civilians and therefore more accurate, one would reasonably assume that they should fire fewer shots than untrained civilians. Yet, there are multiple examples of the police firing several dozen shots to take down an assailant. In fact, there is one example I can think of where the police fired thousand of rounds to take down two assailants who were wearing bullet proof vests.

As for whether the study lies or not, the fact is that studies often do lie. They often give deliberately misleading results. This study is highly suspect since only 35% of the incidents used in the study involved no shots being fired. The reality is that in the overwhelming majority of cases, no shots are fired. Simply brandishing a weapon is usually enough to make the perpetrator give up or run away. If we averaged all those incidents together, then the average number of bullets fire would be almost zero.

However, when the assailants don't give up and start blasting away, you're going to want more than two bullets in your weapon. You're going to want more than enough to do the job.

If you look at combatants in a war, they may not fire their weapons for months at a time. However, there may come a day when they have to fire 500 hundred rounds because they encounter a concentration of the enemy. If you told the general of those troops that they only need to carry 10 bullets with them because some "study" showed that was the average number of bullets fire per day, they would think you were daft, and they would be correct. The average is utterly meaningless in terms of what's needed. the maximum your ever going to need is the quantity the military and the police look at, because if you run out, you aren't going to care much what some moronic pinko professor has to say on the subject.

Another failure of you study is that it only looks at situations where the perpetrator was armed with a gun. there are numerous situations where the perpetrator is only armed with a knife or a bat, or he is simply physically more intimidating than his victim.

This study was designed to give misleading results to propagate the gun control argument. It's nothing more than sleazy propaganda.

Police are trying to capture criminals. Citizens are just defending themselves. Completely different.

The police are only allowed to fire their weapons to defend themselves. Civilians are trying to defend themselves from criminals. The situations are exactly parallel.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Well then make one now and take pictures and document the steps. But again why bother if you can reload so fast? I'm not sure you guys believe your own arguments.

who the fuck are you to make such demands

I'm asking you to prove your false claim. Only a half hour right? Get to it.

it is not a false claim it is easy to do

simply google it you dumb fucker

i get so tired of you lazy holey then thou losers

just because you cant do does not mean

no buddy can do it

 

[WinterBorn]

I love how you guys want to claim you can reload so fast capacity doesn't matter. Then out of the other side of your mouth criminals will go to extremes to get hi cap magazines. You guys don't believe your own arguments, why should I?

You are still confusing the ability to reload quickly with the requirement to do so.

You yourself have said you want the shooters to have to reload, because that is when they can be stopped or when they make mistakes, ect.

A person defending their home & family can make the same mistakes.

 

[Brain357]

who the fuck are you to make such demands

I'm asking you to prove your false claim. Only a half hour right? Get to it.

You are seriously fixated on the magazine capacity. I still don't think it will make as much difference.

I know when I am target shooting, I am far more likely to rapid fire and not aim as carefully when I know I have a full magazine or when I have a 25 round mag in the .22. When I have fewer rounds I am more careful.

Someone with fewer rounds might pay more careful attention. That would have the opposite effect of what you want. These mass shooters are typically lousy shots.

So now you know what a crazy mass shooter is going to do?

 

[bripat9643]

Why would they spend many thousands on a printer to make hi cap magazines? You gun nuts always say you can reload so fast capacity doesn't matter. Do these magazines pop out ready to be loaded or do they need a spring? How does a printer pop out a spring?

you can pound one out of tin

in less then a 1/2 hour

so who cares

Well then make one now and take pictures and document the steps. But again why bother if you can reload so fast? I'm not sure you guys believe your own arguments.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Abww7edoc4]Make a GUN using a 3D Printer! 100% Legal. Amature GunSmith Makes an AR-15 Rifle - YouTube[/ame]

 

[jon_berzerk]

I love how you guys want to claim you can reload so fast capacity doesn't matter. Then out of the other side of your mouth criminals will go to extremes to get hi cap magazines. You guys don't believe your own arguments, why should I?

You are still confusing the ability to reload quickly with the requirement to do so.

You yourself have said you want the shooters to have to reload, because that is when they can be stopped or when they make mistakes, ect.

A person defending their home & family can make the same mistakes.

the theater shooter

left unspent rounds in mags that he swapped

 

[Brain357]

I love how you guys want to claim you can reload so fast capacity doesn't matter. Then out of the other side of your mouth criminals will go to extremes to get hi cap magazines. You guys don't believe your own arguments, why should I?

You are still confusing the ability to reload quickly with the requirement to do so.

You yourself have said you want the shooters to have to reload, because that is when they can be stopped or when they make mistakes, ect.

A person defending their home & family can make the same mistakes.

And you argue that capacity doesn't matter because you can reload so fast. So now your arguing against yourself?

 

[WinterBorn]

I'm asking you to prove your false claim. Only a half hour right? Get to it.

You are seriously fixated on the magazine capacity. I still don't think it will make as much difference.

I know when I am target shooting, I am far more likely to rapid fire and not aim as carefully when I know I have a full magazine or when I have a 25 round mag in the .22. When I have fewer rounds I am more careful.

Someone with fewer rounds might pay more careful attention. That would have the opposite effect of what you want. These mass shooters are typically lousy shots.

So now you know what a crazy mass shooter is going to do?

None of what I said was said as if it were a sure thing. It is all supposition. But then, so is your plan for him to drop the magazine.

 

[WinterBorn]

I love how you guys want to claim you can reload so fast capacity doesn't matter. Then out of the other side of your mouth criminals will go to extremes to get hi cap magazines. You guys don't believe your own arguments, why should I?

You are still confusing the ability to reload quickly with the requirement to do so.

You yourself have said you want the shooters to have to reload, because that is when they can be stopped or when they make mistakes, ect.

A person defending their home & family can make the same mistakes.

And you argue that capacity doesn't matter because you can reload so fast. So now your arguing against yourself?

Am I? Or am I saying that mistakes happen, and high stress (like a shooting) increases the likelihood of them.

 

[Brain357]

who the fuck are you to make such demands

I'm asking you to prove your false claim. Only a half hour right? Get to it.

it is not a false claim it is easy to do

simply google it you dumb fucker

i get so tired of you lazy holey then thou losers

just because you cant do does not mean

no buddy can do it

So you won't make one even though it is so easy? That is telling. How do you get the right spring tension?

 

[Brain357]

I

You are still confusing the ability to reload quickly with the requirement to do so.

You yourself have said you want the shooters to have to reload, because that is when they can be stopped or when they make mistakes, ect.

A person defending their home & family can make the same mistakes.

And you argue that capacity doesn't matter because you can reload so fast. So now your arguing against yourself?

Am I? Or am I saying that mistakes happen, and high stress (like a shooting) increases the likelihood of them.

Then your saying capacity does matter. Make up your mind.

 

[Brain357]

You are seriously fixated on the magazine capacity. I still don't think it will make as much difference.

I know when I am target shooting, I am far more likely to rapid fire and not aim as carefully when I know I have a full magazine or when I have a 25 round mag in the .22. When I have fewer rounds I am more careful.

Someone with fewer rounds might pay more careful attention. That would have the opposite effect of what you want. These mass shooters are typically lousy shots.

So now you know what a crazy mass shooter is going to do?

None of what I said was said as if it were a sure thing. It is all supposition. But then, so is your plan for him to drop the magazine.

And in your next post mistakes happen? Your arguing both sides, very dishonest.

 

[WinterBorn]

I

And you argue that capacity doesn't matter because you can reload so fast. So now your arguing against yourself?

Am I? Or am I saying that mistakes happen, and high stress (like a shooting) increases the likelihood of them.

Then your saying capacity does matter. Make up your mind.

Am I? What I have been saying all along is that the ability to rapidly reload a semi-auto negates the advantage of banning larger magazines.

You have maintained that the smaller magazines require more frequent reloads which allow the shooter to be overwhelmed or allows for a greater chance that he will drop a magazine or other mistake.

I point out that the same things you hope for in the mass shooting can easily happen to someone defending themselves.

I have not wavered in my argument. Also, while I am confident in my ability to reload, I am against the gov't legislating what my fellow gun owners can or cannot have. Especially when it is based on such dubious evidence.

 

[WinterBorn]

So now you know what a crazy mass shooter is going to do?

None of what I said was said as if it were a sure thing. It is all supposition. But then, so is your plan for him to drop the magazine.

And in your next post mistakes happen? Your arguing both sides, very dishonest.

Not dishonest at all. I have been consistent and straight forward in this entire discussion.

I can reload my pistol in less than 2 seconds. That does not mean that a larger capacity magazine has no use to any shooter. And I disagree with legislating the choice away in the hopes that the next mass shooter will drop a magazine.

 

[Brain357]

I

Am I? Or am I saying that mistakes happen, and high stress (like a shooting) increases the likelihood of them.

Then your saying capacity does matter. Make up your mind.

Am I? What I have been saying all along is that the ability to rapidly reload a semi-auto negates the advantage of banning larger magazines.

You have maintained that the smaller magazines require more frequent reloads which allow the shooter to be overwhelmed or allows for a greater chance that he will drop a magazine or other mistake.

I point out that the same things you hope for in the mass shooting can easily happen to someone defending themselves.

I have not wavered in my argument. Also, while I am confident in my ability to reload, I am against the gov't legislating what my fellow gun owners can or cannot have. Especially when it is based on such dubious evidence.

Yes you are as I have shown several times.

I have posted a study that defense on average is 2 shots. You have posted a video of a woman defending against 3 thugs with approximately 4 shots. I have heard no example of anyone needing a hi cap magazine for defense. There are lots of examples of mass shooters using hi cap magazines.

 

[Brain357]

None of what I said was said as if it were a sure thing. It is all supposition. But then, so is your plan for him to drop the magazine.

And in your next post mistakes happen? Your arguing both sides, very dishonest.

Not dishonest at all. I have been consistent and straight forward in this entire discussion.

I can reload my pistol in less than 2 seconds. That does not mean that a larger capacity magazine has no use to any shooter. And I disagree with legislating the choice away in the hopes that the next mass shooter will drop a magazine.

You have said capacity doesn't matter because people can reload so fast. Then you say it does matter because mistakes happen. Yes that's very honest debate. sorry you fail

 

[eflatminor]

I find it telling that none of the gun grabbers every attempt to honestly answer these kind of questions.

Logical fallacy in 3...2...

Still no response. Telling indeed. Let's try it one more time, just for shit's and giggles. Okay gun grabbers, tell us:

What exactly makes you think these "shooters" will obey your magazine limit law...or any law that restricts the ability of law abiding citizens to defend themselves?

I really would love to see someone address this question DIRECTLY.

Not holding my breath...

They will become hard to get

They will be harder for LAW ABIDING citizens to get. So, once again, I ask, what makes you think criminals won't have them? There are MILLIONS out there, they're VERY easy to make. You'll only be ensuring the bad guys have the tools that you find so evil, while the good guys don't. It's as though you're rooting for the criminals! How crazy is that???

and not often used just like machine guns.

Not often used by good guys. Bad guys all over the world use them, even where civilian firearm ownership is banned. That's the point.

You said capacity doesn't matter because you can reload so fast, so why would criminals bother with them?

Because not everyone can change a magazine as fast as a competition shooter, as YOUR previous post demonstrated. Oh the irony.

So, one more time, WHAT MAKES YOU THINK CRIMINALS WILL OBEY YOUR MAGAZINE LAWS?

 

[eflatminor]

Confiscate the magazines and melt them down to cast manhole covers! It's the appropriate thing to do. Cover the stench of death that high capacity magazines wrought the way we cover the stench from our sewers.

Gun nuts rationalize the absolute need for high capacity magazines because, in their warped fantasy world, they will be called upon to face down both the Bloods and the Cryps and then the entire Sioux Nation with the Corleone Family in reserve.

No one needs more than ten shots unless that person is going on the offensive with a gun.

Right, 'cuz those criminals and crazies will surely hand them over when asked to do so...