Police knew that the El Paso shooter had an ak47 and that he intended to use it, but did nothing

[deannalw]

I get it, but in all those cases say they took the guns, what would the news been then? Corrupt FBI confiscating guns! 1776,1776! No frame had been committed. This ain't the minority report. We can't arrest or detain folks just because we think they will commit a crime.

No, but on a judge's order, we should be able to take their guns. Temporarily.

Who decides? A judge with no mental health training whatsoever?

How would you feel if I convinced a judge that your elevator no longer reached the top floor (and it doesn't) and you no longer needed access to the internet to spread lies?

It doesn't seem to be a problem in the states that already have ERPO laws. You would have to ask a judge how they make decisions in MANY cases without a mental health degree. I think expert testimony is usually relied on.

Judges can order mental exams, they do not need decide without a degree

Anyone who thinks he needs an AR-15 needs a mental exam.

I didn't need one, but I wanted one so I bought one.

Ain't America grand?

Actually, I have two so I suppose I'm double nuts.

 

[Frannie]

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/08/07/us/el-paso-crusius-gun-warning/index.html

As usual there were tips in place to law enforcement who were felt it more important not to miss their meeting at the donut shop.

CIAO

Why in the heck would you say such a thing?

Your linked article explains the call, and your evil stoking comment is the problem with the world today...

If the police cant stop mass killings when they have the name of the killer before, the police are useless.

You cannot read very well.

They had the mothers phone number and name.

Enter reality kid

 

[ColonelAngus]

To set the record straight. It was NOT an AK47.

Also, the dude was 21 and lived at home.

The concerned mom should have TAKEN THE FUCKING GUN AWAY FROM HER SON IF SHE WAS CONCERNED!

Be a fucking parent

 

[OldLady]

I heard alittle about that. I just don't think there is allot the cops could have done.

With that being the conversation we should be having, but we are not. Maybe there is nothing in the end they could have done but unless we start asking ourselves this question we will never know.

Most of the people who end up doing something like this have all kinds of red flags in their past.

James Holmes therapist said that he threatened her life but no one did anything. On the other hand there are many troubled people that never harm anyone outside of themselves.

We will never address this because fighting partisan political arguments is more important. A few dead is worth the price of winning power.

------------------------------------------- my only response would be that I GUESS that this 'j. holmes' didn't break any laws with his threats to his therapist Pknopf .

Did you know that threatening to kill an individual, race of people, and more could result in criminal charges and prison time? Whether you post that threat on social media or call and threaten someone over the phone, threats of bodily harm and homicide are not tolerated at the state or federal level.

Colorado Murder Threat Defense Attorney - Rubinstein Law Offices

You didn't answer my earlier question as to why you jumped to the conclusion that I was advocating gun control.

------------------------------------ first , you sound like YOU are looking for MORE laws , rules and regulations of Gun Owners Pknopf . That being said and just looking at Rubenstein words on Threats I GUESS that 'j. holmes' threats fell through the cracks and he wasn't Prosecuted Pknopf . [as I roll my eyes]

So in the end you jumped to conclusions and dismissed obvious concerns but still think your changing of my name here is cute.

It's no wonder it's so hard to address anything.

Well, don't go by pismoe. Sometimes you can't really "address" anything here.

His family thought he was a little immature to own the gun. Well we can't just go around locking people up with the thought police. We live in a country that gives us rights. It's kind of funny that the OP is the same kind of person that argues for the rights of the 2nd Amendment, but then as an armchair quarterback posts something negative about cops for not violating the shooter's 2nd Amendment rights to legally own the gun.

Finger pointing is fun. Especially when it takes the focus off the weapon.

 

[OldLady]

How much supporting evidence for my position do you need? I'd just like to know up front so I do not waste my time?

If you say none will matter, I won't.

All police get training in how to spot and deal with special needs people, who routinely break the law.
If your police dept does not they should not be on the road

You didn't answer my question. Having "a class" on dealing with the mentally ill is not being trained on how to deal with the mentally ill and there are examples all the time where it's obvious many do not know how to.

How much corroborating evidence do you require?

If you need more evidence than 32 bodies you are a piece of shit from the whacko nra

A mother calling anonymously and saying her son was "immature" and untrained in heavy fire power guns does not constitute "mental illness." You cannot factually tie this phone call to the cops goofing up due to a lack of mental health training. They asked her twice if he was suicidal or had threatened others, and to her knowledge, the answer was no..

A mother is not required to say her kid is unstable nor should she have to. She did the right thing. You failed her

I did? How?

 

[Frannie]

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/08/07/us/el-paso-crusius-gun-warning/index.html

As usual there were tips in place to law enforcement who were felt it more important not to miss their meeting at the donut shop.

CIAO

Why in the heck would you say such a thing?

Your linked article explains the call, and your evil stoking comment is the problem with the world today...

If the police cant stop mass killings when they have the name of the killer before, the police are useless.

Police really do not prevent crime -
Police respond to crime to document and investigate.

So if the police see a shooter in progress they can not stop the crime

Gotcha

You see that occurring a lot?

I'm not a cop so my being the police and seeing something as a cop is quite illogical

Next

Ps cops see this often. proof Ohio stupid

 

[Frannie]

All police get training in how to spot and deal with special needs people, who routinely break the law.
If your police dept does not they should not be on the road

You didn't answer my question. Having "a class" on dealing with the mentally ill is not being trained on how to deal with the mentally ill and there are examples all the time where it's obvious many do not know how to.

How much corroborating evidence do you require?

If you need more evidence than 32 bodies you are a piece of shit from the whacko nra

A mother calling anonymously and saying her son was "immature" and untrained in heavy fire power guns does not constitute "mental illness." You cannot factually tie this phone call to the cops goofing up due to a lack of mental health training. They asked her twice if he was suicidal or had threatened others, and to her knowledge, the answer was no..

A mother is not required to say her kid is unstable nor should she have to. She did the right thing. You failed her

I did? How?

By fighting not to have change. See this shooting is actually old news and no different from florida

 

[pismoe]

No, but on a judge's order, we should be able to take their guns. Temporarily.

Who decides? A judge with no mental health training whatsoever?

How would you feel if I convinced a judge that your elevator no longer reached the top floor (and it doesn't) and you no longer needed access to the internet to spread lies?

It doesn't seem to be a problem in the states that already have ERPO laws. You would have to ask a judge how they make decisions in MANY cases without a mental health degree. I think expert testimony is usually relied on.

Judges can order mental exams, they do not need decide without a degree

Anyone who thinks he needs an AR-15 needs a mental exam.

Worse the ak47 was designed specifically to kill Americans

---------------------------------- so what . The AK was put into service in 1947 and I think it replace the SKS . The SKS was designed or used by the 'soviets' to fight WW2 . The AK replaced the SKS I think . Both guns have been used to kill 'chinese' , viet naumers , Cambodians , chechens and Americans [plus many others] Frannie .

 

[deannalw]

With that being the conversation we should be having, but we are not. Maybe there is nothing in the end they could have done but unless we start asking ourselves this question we will never know.

Most of the people who end up doing something like this have all kinds of red flags in their past.

James Holmes therapist said that he threatened her life but no one did anything. On the other hand there are many troubled people that never harm anyone outside of themselves.

We will never address this because fighting partisan political arguments is more important. A few dead is worth the price of winning power.

------------------------------------------- my only response would be that I GUESS that this 'j. holmes' didn't break any laws with his threats to his therapist Pknopf .

Did you know that threatening to kill an individual, race of people, and more could result in criminal charges and prison time? Whether you post that threat on social media or call and threaten someone over the phone, threats of bodily harm and homicide are not tolerated at the state or federal level.

Colorado Murder Threat Defense Attorney - Rubinstein Law Offices

You didn't answer my earlier question as to why you jumped to the conclusion that I was advocating gun control.

------------------------------------ first , you sound like YOU are looking for MORE laws , rules and regulations of Gun Owners Pknopf . That being said and just looking at Rubenstein words on Threats I GUESS that 'j. holmes' threats fell through the cracks and he wasn't Prosecuted Pknopf . [as I roll my eyes]

So in the end you jumped to conclusions and dismissed obvious concerns but still think your changing of my name here is cute.

It's no wonder it's so hard to address anything.

Well, don't go by pismoe. Sometimes you can't really "address" anything here.

His family thought he was a little immature to own the gun. Well we can't just go around locking people up with the thought police. We live in a country that gives us rights. It's kind of funny that the OP is the same kind of person that argues for the rights of the 2nd Amendment, but then as an armchair quarterback posts something negative about cops for not violating the shooter's 2nd Amendment rights to legally own the gun.

Finger pointing is fun. Especially when it takes the focus off the weapon.

Who's trying to take the focus off the weapon?

 

[Taz]

No, but on a judge's order, we should be able to take their guns. Temporarily.

Who decides? A judge with no mental health training whatsoever?

How would you feel if I convinced a judge that your elevator no longer reached the top floor (and it doesn't) and you no longer needed access to the internet to spread lies?

It doesn't seem to be a problem in the states that already have ERPO laws. You would have to ask a judge how they make decisions in MANY cases without a mental health degree. I think expert testimony is usually relied on.

Judges can order mental exams, they do not need decide without a degree

Anyone who thinks he needs an AR-15 needs a mental exam.

--------------------------------------- what if he just WANTS an AR15 in this still kinda Free Country TAZ ??

Look, for the general safety of the population, we shouldn't be selling that shit.

PS you were NEVER in a free country. Wake up.

 

[iceberg]

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/08/07/us/el-paso-crusius-gun-warning/index.html

As usual there were tips in place to law enforcement who were felt it more important not to miss their meeting at the donut shop.

CIAO

oh for the love of god - do people even read past the god damn headlines?

"The mother contacted police because she was worried about her son owning the weapon given his age, maturity level and lack of experience handling such a firearm, attorneys Chris Ayres and R. Jack Ayres said.
During the call, the mother was transferred to a public safety officer who told her that -- based on her description of the situation -- her son, 21, was legally allowed to purchase the weapon, the attorneys said. The mother did not provide her name or her son's name, and police did not seek any additional information from her before the call concluded, they added."

so - she was just worried someone her sons age bought a gun. nothing about "he's dangerous, he's mental, he's going to shoot someone..." nothing to the police.

so you're now advocating that every time someone calls the police cause someone else has a gun, the police should go take it away and/or dive into the history here.

"The public safety officer asked the mother twice whether her son was suicidal or had threatened any other persons, which she indicated was not the case, according to Felty."

mother said son not dangerous.

read the entire article before the OH NOES comes up.

 

[Taz]

No, but on a judge's order, we should be able to take their guns. Temporarily.

Who decides? A judge with no mental health training whatsoever?

How would you feel if I convinced a judge that your elevator no longer reached the top floor (and it doesn't) and you no longer needed access to the internet to spread lies?

It doesn't seem to be a problem in the states that already have ERPO laws. You would have to ask a judge how they make decisions in MANY cases without a mental health degree. I think expert testimony is usually relied on.

Judges can order mental exams, they do not need decide without a degree

Anyone who thinks he needs an AR-15 needs a mental exam.

I didn't need one, but I wanted one so I bought one.

Ain't America grand?

Actually, I have two so I suppose I'm double nuts.

Just curious, why do you have 2? One stopped getting the chubby going?

 

[iceberg]

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/08/07/us/el-paso-crusius-gun-warning/index.html

As usual there were tips in place to law enforcement who were felt it more important not to miss their meeting at the donut shop.

CIAO

I heard alittle about that. I just don't think there is allot the cops could have done.

Saying that is just not responsible, the FBI also had the both the name of Nikolas Cruse and that he intended to do what he did. Law enforcement failed, but hey they always get the donut

I get it, but in all those cases say they took the guns, what would the news been then? Corrupt FBI confiscating guns! 1776,1776! No frame had been committed. This ain't the minority report. We can't arrest or detain folks just because we think they will commit a crime.

You seem to be saying that the police need to watch people with guns aimed kill others before they can act. Both of these shooters were severely I'll, they should have been evaluated at least

and where are you getting this information on the shooters history?

look - i want to get to the bottom of this shit also but we're NEVER going to do it if we freak out as a default reaction and don't even gather facts on which to act upon. now you're just making shit up and it's pretty pathetic.

 

[Billiejeens]

Why in the heck would you say such a thing?

Your linked article explains the call, and your evil stoking comment is the problem with the world today...

If the police cant stop mass killings when they have the name of the killer before, the police are useless.

Police really do not prevent crime -
Police respond to crime to document and investigate.

So if the police see a shooter in progress they can not stop the crime

Gotcha

You see that occurring a lot?

I'm not a cop so my being the police and seeing something as a cop is quite illogical

Next

Ps cops see this often. proof Ohio stupid

Once Again -
Do you see statistics that verify your opinion?
Or do Police respond - usually to a 911 call?
There are 1/4 of a million 911 calls made each year - in almost all cases the crime is ongoing or complete.

 

[pismoe]

so a Good Argument that 'j.holmes' shoulda or could been arrested eh . Course he wasn't arrested so its as I said , 'j.holmes' wasn't arrested so one of the reasons for that coulda as I previously said coulda been that he fell through the CRACKS Pknopp ,

 

[Care4all]

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/08/07/us/el-paso-crusius-gun-warning/index.html

As usual there were tips in place to law enforcement who were felt it more important not to miss their meeting at the donut shop.

CIAO

Why in the heck would you say such a thing?

Your linked article explains the call, and your evil stoking comment is the problem with the world today...

If the police cant stop mass killings when they have the name of the killer before, the police are useless.

READ YOUR OWN LINKED ARTICLE

The police were not given a name...

 

[pismoe]

Who decides? A judge with no mental health training whatsoever?

How would you feel if I convinced a judge that your elevator no longer reached the top floor (and it doesn't) and you no longer needed access to the internet to spread lies?

It doesn't seem to be a problem in the states that already have ERPO laws. You would have to ask a judge how they make decisions in MANY cases without a mental health degree. I think expert testimony is usually relied on.

Judges can order mental exams, they do not need decide without a degree

Anyone who thinks he needs an AR-15 needs a mental exam.

--------------------------------------- what if he just WANTS an AR15 in this still kinda Free Country TAZ ??

Look, for the general safety of the population, we shouldn't be selling that shit.

PS you were NEVER in a free country. Wake up.

-------------------------------------- FREE Country should be the goal of every American Taz . Wake up Taz !!

 

[Frannie]

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/08/07/us/el-paso-crusius-gun-warning/index.html

As usual there were tips in place to law enforcement who were felt it more important not to miss their meeting at the donut shop.

CIAO

Why in the heck would you say such a thing?

Your linked article explains the call, and your evil stoking comment is the problem with the world today...

If the police cant stop mass killings when they have the name of the killer before, the police are useless.

READ YOUR OWN LINKED ARTICLE

The police were not given a name...

Use your brain the police have the name with the phone number

Grow up if you can

 

[Lewdog]

His family thought he was a little immature to own the gun. Well we can't just go around locking people up with the thought police. We live in a country that gives us rights. It's kind of funny that the OP is the same kind of person that argues for the rights of the 2nd Amendment, but then as an armchair quarterback posts something negative about cops for not violating the shooter's 2nd Amendment rights to legally own the gun.

That isn't the argument. James Holmes threatened his therapists life. That looks to be a crime in Colorado. His therapist testified in court that she could not get anyone to do anything.

There is a good argument there that James Holmes should have been arrested and all that goes with that.

We do not know all the reasons this guys mom called. Maybe a visit by someone trained in things like this could have better explained her call. Maybe not. The argument is not that we can stop every single person intent on harming others. The argument is whether we are doing enough where we can.

This thread isn't about James Holmes. It's about the El Paso shooter and his mom didn't say he threatened to shoot anyone. She said she thought he was too immature and inexperienced to own one. He is 21 and he is legal able to buy and own one. Law enforcement had NO REASON to take his gun.

It is absolutely AMAZING how some of the strong 2nd Amendment supporters on this forum not only don't know how the 2nd Amendment works, but also suddenly lose their fervor for a citizen's rights after-the-fact.

 

[Taz]

It doesn't seem to be a problem in the states that already have ERPO laws. You would have to ask a judge how they make decisions in MANY cases without a mental health degree. I think expert testimony is usually relied on.

Judges can order mental exams, they do not need decide without a degree

Anyone who thinks he needs an AR-15 needs a mental exam.

--------------------------------------- what if he just WANTS an AR15 in this still kinda Free Country TAZ ??

Look, for the general safety of the population, we shouldn't be selling that shit.

PS you were NEVER in a free country. Wake up.

-------------------------------------- FREE Country should be the goal of every American Taz . Wake up Taz !!

You're NEVER going to live in a free country, that's why all the jails are full. Better to concentrate on something you can make a difference on.