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Obama doesn't need to negotiate, he's the President. The Republicans need to stop acting like fools and start acting like the adults they supposedly are.
October 3 2013~
Let the nay saying begin!
"A majority of Americans want President Obama to negotiate with Congress over the debt ceiling, and nearly two-thirds oppose raising the debt without significant spending reforms attached, according to a recent poll from Ending Spending and the American Action Forum.
House Speaker John Boehner (R., Ohio) said Wednesday following a meeting at the White House that the president had reiterated one more time tonight that he will not negotiate. Obama and most Democrats favor a clean debt-ceiling hike without spending reforms attached. Meanwhile, House GOP leaders are said to be working on a larger budget deal to end the government and raise the debt ceiling with reforms."
Poll: Americans Want Obama to Negotiate | National Review Online
KEY FINDINGS
1. AN OPPORTUNITY: Obama is badly bruised. The President's numbers aren't strong, with an underwater approval rating (43% approve, 49% disapprove), and a generic congressional ballot that has Republicans ahead by 4 points (40% GOP, 36%DEM)
Just read the rest yourself:
http://www.endingspending.com/docs/debtceilingpoll.pdf
What percentage of Americans actually understand what the debt ceiling is?
The Poll says nothing about the ACA being tied to the debt. It seems to indicate Americans favor some more spending cuts.
What about raising taxes on those making over 1 Million, raising capital gains, raising the estate tax... Getting rid of loopholes.
That would only count as "consent" if saying "no" was a viable option. WHich it wasn't.
Sure it was. Why would he ask if it wasn't an option?
he wouldn't have. It wasn't a question. Just like when he asked all the other slaves, "Hey, who feels like picking tobacco today?"
Um. Nope. They were picking tobacco whether they felt like it or not.
That's what slavery is. Certainly, you understand THAT concept, since squealing about "Freedom" is like your answer to everything.
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The best indications are that his brother *may* have been the father and DNA exonerated Thomas Jefferson. And yes, she could have consented. She could have been crazy about his brother. But only a libtard would call consensual sex "rape" because - well - libtards desperately need a narrative that demonizes their opponents since libtards stand firmly on the wrong side of the facts and firmly against the Constitution.
Except DNA did nothing of the sort.
And, no, you can't "consent" when you are "property", something the founders were totally cool with.
3 points....
One I think it's kind of cool that Jefferson is a maternal cousin of my great great great great grandfather....
Second Don't the books and stories tell us of evil hard mean slave owners and slaves who were as good as free the way they were treated.... Fact is many stayed with their former owners after they were emancipated.
Third. None of this has to do with shit going on today..........
Sure it was. Why would he ask if it wasn't an option?
he wouldn't have. It wasn't a question. Just like when he asked all the other slaves, "Hey, who feels like picking tobacco today?"
Um. Nope. They were picking tobacco whether they felt like it or not.
That's what slavery is. Certainly, you understand THAT concept, since squealing about "Freedom" is like your answer to everything.
"He wouldn't have"...
Joe continues to make up his own version of history. What's the over/under on how long it takes until he starts claiming he was there and witnessed the "rape"?
as much as it pains me to say so I agree with Joe on thisI don't see how a slave can give consent that is like in the modern day you say not a child cangive consent have sex with an adultneither really has the power to say no even if she loved Jefferson and consent all the way does not make it any less creepy.But you can consent to sex... Game. Set. Match.
No, you can't truly "consent" when you are PROPERTY.
This is why Slavery was a bad thing.
Sure they can:
Slave Owner: "Slave, would you like to have sex?"
Slave: "Yes"
Boom! Consent...! (you continue to take stupidity to previously unforeseen levels)
[
What you have not proven is that Sally Hemmings was ever raped. Unless you think that each and every act of sex was a rape you have nothing to say. To all knowable evidence it was a relationship that lasted for many years. She had multiple children. It was, to all evidence, a consensual and loving relationship.
Sally Hemmings was PROPERTY.
I want to repeat that because you are kind of dense. SALLY HEMMINGS was PROPERTY.
By definition, every act of sex she had with Jefferson WAS rape because the issue of "consent" was besides the point.
Incidently, most historical movies portray Sally as black, but she was 3/4's white and resembled Jefferson's dead wife (because she was Martha Jefferson's half sister.)
If she consented (to of course what never occurred as I have proven already), it cannot be rape. Period. End of story.
So? How many Republicans voted for it?
Here Are Three Debt-Ceiling Lies Youll Hear From the GOP This Week
2. Obama is a big hypocrite because he voted against a debt-limit increase while Bush was president.
Yes, he did cast such a vote, but no, hes not a hypocrite, not even a small one. The reason is simple. Democrats made no threats when they cast their votes. They knew they were going to lose and had no real intention of winning.
It was March 16, 2006, when Obama cast the fateful vote. But the Democrats votes, Obamas included, were purely symbolic. The Republicans controlled the Senate at the time, 55-45. The increase in the debt limit, the fourth in George W. Bushs tenure, passed, 52-48, with three Republicans voting with all the Democrats.
But the Democrats knew they were going to lose. They were in the minority; duh. They did not choose to filibuster, which they could have done and which would have meant the Republicans needed 60 votes. If theyd done so, that would have been hardball, and in that case, Obama would have been a participant in a real threat against American creditworthiness. Even then it wouldnt have been the same as what the GOP is doing now, unless those 45 Democrats had demanded, oh, that Bush rescind his tax cuts or his Medicare Part D bill or some other signal legislative achievement.
But the Democrats did no such thing. They cast symbolic votes to force Republicans to vote to increase the debt limit. So Obamas 2006 vote means nothing and bears no resemblance to whats going on today.
Then why do it [MENTION=24452]Seawytch[/MENTION]? Because they are partisan hack HYPOCRITES!!!!!
Sally Hemmings was PROPERTY.
I want to repeat that because you are kind of dense. SALLY HEMMINGS was PROPERTY.
By definition, every act of sex she had with Jefferson WAS rape because the issue of "consent" was besides the point.
Incidently, most historical movies portray Sally as black, but she was 3/4's white and resembled Jefferson's dead wife (because she was Martha Jefferson's half sister.)
If she consented (to of course what never occurred as I have proven already), it cannot be rape. Period. End of story.
A slave did not have the luxury of consent. There was no such thing. Sally Hemmings was a slave and had no right to consent or not.
For all we know, she and the lascivious Mr. Jefferson could very well have had an actual "relationship" but that was seldom the case. More often than not, it was the slave owner taking advantage of his property.
Here Are Three Debt-Ceiling Lies Youll Hear From the GOP This Week
2. Obama is a big hypocrite because he voted against a debt-limit increase while Bush was president.
Yes, he did cast such a vote, but no, hes not a hypocrite, not even a small one. The reason is simple. Democrats made no threats when they cast their votes. They knew they were going to lose and had no real intention of winning.
It was March 16, 2006, when Obama cast the fateful vote. But the Democrats votes, Obamas included, were purely symbolic. The Republicans controlled the Senate at the time, 55-45. The increase in the debt limit, the fourth in George W. Bushs tenure, passed, 52-48, with three Republicans voting with all the Democrats.
But the Democrats knew they were going to lose. They were in the minority; duh. They did not choose to filibuster, which they could have done and which would have meant the Republicans needed 60 votes. If theyd done so, that would have been hardball, and in that case, Obama would have been a participant in a real threat against American creditworthiness. Even then it wouldnt have been the same as what the GOP is doing now, unless those 45 Democrats had demanded, oh, that Bush rescind his tax cuts or his Medicare Part D bill or some other signal legislative achievement.
But the Democrats did no such thing. They cast symbolic votes to force Republicans to vote to increase the debt limit. So Obamas 2006 vote means nothing and bears no resemblance to whats going on today.
Then why do it [MENTION=24452]Seawytch[/MENTION]? Because they are partisan hack HYPOCRITES!!!!!
Uh oh...puppy is using large fonts again. Viagra not working anymore?
I imagine they were doing it as a symbolic gesture...much like the GOP holding 44 votes to defund a law.
as much as it pains me to say so I agree with Joe on thisI don't see how a slave can give consent that is like in the modern day you say not a child cangive consent have sex with an adultneither really has the power to say no even if she loved Jefferson and consent all the way does not make it any less creepy.No, you can't truly "consent" when you are PROPERTY.
This is why Slavery was a bad thing.
Sure they can:
Slave Owner: "Slave, would you like to have sex?"
Slave: "Yes"
Boom! Consent...! (you continue to take stupidity to previously unforeseen levels)
If she consented (to of course what never occurred as I have proven already), it cannot be rape. Period. End of story.
A slave did not have the luxury of consent. There was no such thing. Sally Hemmings was a slave and had no right to consent or not.
For all we know, she and the lascivious Mr. Jefferson could very well have had an actual "relationship" but that was seldom the case. More often than not, it was the slave owner taking advantage of his property.
For once you are correct on all accounts Seawytch. They could have and that was seldom the case.
The fact is, DNA exonerated Jefferson and Joe is lying through is teeth calling him a "rapist" when he was never even charged with that crime, much less convicted of it.
Joe has to try to demonize the founders because they created the Constitution which Joe hates.
Then why do it [MENTION=24452]Seawytch[/MENTION]? Because they are partisan hack HYPOCRITES!!!!!
Uh oh...puppy is using large fonts again. Viagra not working anymore?
I imagine they were doing it as a symbolic gesture...much like the GOP holding 44 votes to defund a law.
You seem awfully interested in my dick. Are you sure you're not straight sweetie?
So to be clear, you're admitting that Obama - a graduate of an Ivy League school and holding a position of representing the people - acted like a high school boy at a party who was desperate for attention and intentionally voted wrong? Wow. You just proved that the Republicans really are the only adults in the room.
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For once you are correct on all accounts Seawytch. They could have and that was seldom the case.
The fact is, DNA exonerated Jefferson and Joe is lying through is teeth calling him a "rapist" when he was never even charged with that crime, much less convicted of it.
Robert Gillespie, a lawyer in Richmond who is the head of the Monticello Association, which includes the descendants of Jefferson's two daughters, said, ''We've always agreed with mainstream historians that Jefferson wouldn't have fathered Sally Hemings's children.'' But, Mr. Gillespie said, the DNA results are ''changing my attitude.''
Mr. Gillespie said he had always believed that ''Jefferson would have shown the second set of children love and affection just as he did the first set. Apparently he was a product of the 18th century, and had a double standard.''
Dr. Ellis, author of ''American Sphinx: The Character of Thomas Jefferson,'' (Knopf, 1997), and other Jefferson scholars like Dumas Malone have long said that Jefferson did not have a relationship with Hemings. Dr. Ellis once dismissed the possibility as ''a tin can tied to Jefferson's reputation.''
Now, he said, the DNA tests have changed his mind. ''This evidence is new evidence and it seems to me to be clinching,'' he said. Dr. Ellis said circumstantial evidence, including a quotation attributed to another of Hemings's sons, James Madison, also pointed to a liaison. ''It includes the timing of her pregnancies, the physical resemblance of her children to Jefferson, and Madison saying late in life that his mother told him.''
Joe has to try to demonize the founders because they created the Constitution which Joe hates.
as much as it pains me to say so I agree with Joe on thisI don't see how a slave can give consent that is like in the modern day you say not a child cangive consent have sex with an adultneither really has the power to say no even if she loved Jefferson and consent all the way does not make it any less creepy.Sure they can:
Slave Owner: "Slave, would you like to have sex?"
Slave: "Yes"
Boom! Consent...! (you continue to take stupidity to previously unforeseen levels)
The issue is not how "creepy" a relationship was - the issue is consent. Furthermore, there was no relationship between her and Thomas Jefferson - DNA proved that.
Uh oh...puppy is using large fonts again. Viagra not working anymore?
I imagine they were doing it as a symbolic gesture...much like the GOP holding 44 votes to defund a law.
You seem awfully interested in my dick. Are you sure you're not straight sweetie?
So to be clear, you're admitting that Obama - a graduate of an Ivy League school and holding a position of representing the people - acted like a high school boy at a party who was desperate for attention and intentionally voted wrong? Wow. You just proved that the Republicans really are the only adults in the room.
Just showing concern for a fellow American puppy. Just wanted you to know there is medicine for your little problem.
The Democrats had a strictly symbolic vote. They KNEW it wasn't going to go anywhere, much like the GOP and their repeated votes on repealing the ACA. Are you calling them high school children desperate for attention?
Thomas Jefferson was a brilliant brilliant man yeah that does not excuse to do abuse of power over his slaves you can romanticize it all you want is just wrong to treat somebody as property. He knew this and having sex with said person with no power it's just as wrong
