POLL: Does the left want to end capitalism?

[Tehon]

Yes, I already expressed a similar opinion at the start of our conversation. But cracks in the system are already appearing and people are starting to look for something different. I don't see the ignorance coming from my point of view.

For the time being the best we can do is something similar to what the Nordic countries do. If you agree with that then the comment about ignorance wasn't for you.

I don't agree with the Nordic approach. I think we can do better. What I do agree with is that people aren't ready for the Marxist approach.

The Nordic countries are pretty happy with their model. What would you do to improve it? What do you think is possible today?

I have no desire to improve the Nordic model, it's unsustainable. Today I'm content watching capitalism do its thing, for better or worse.

What do you think is possible today? What would you do if you had the power to change everything?

We have the technology, anything is possible but society has to decide for itself what it wants. There is another way to organize society but it remains hidden in plain sight. So long as that is the case we will continue on this path, wrestling over how much control to give to a ruling class. Eventually we will lose even that.

 

[Tehon]

What do you think is possible today? What would you do if you had the power to change everything?

You didn't ask me but I will answer.
I would put policies in place to encourage small businesses. And remove the log jam of regulations that are in place only to protect big businesses in those markets.
At the same time, we need to lower the % of GDP that the financial markets have. It is not healthy overall for the investment/credit crowd to have beyond 10-15% of GDP. Today it is just over 20%, and it shows. Investor interests rarely agrees with main street interests.
Then I would do something to combat corporate hold on the federal government. The legislative branch has absolutely been rendered useless due to corruption and an unwillingness to lead.
We need campaign reform, and we need it now.
That is a little start.

^ This is what I'm talking about.

we will continue on this path, wrestling over how much control to give to a ruling class.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

For the time being the best we can do is something similar to what the Nordic countries do. If you agree with that then the comment about ignorance wasn't for you.

I don't agree with the Nordic approach. I think we can do better. What I do agree with is that people aren't ready for the Marxist approach.

The Nordic countries are pretty happy with their model. What would you do to improve it? What do you think is possible today?

I have no desire to improve the Nordic model, it's unsustainable. Today I'm content watching capitalism do its thing, for better or worse.

What do you think is possible today? What would you do if you had the power to change everything?

We have the technology, anything is possible but society has to decide for itself what it wants. There is another way to organize society but it remains hidden in plain sight. So long as that is the case we will continue on this path wrestling over how much control to give to a ruling class. Eventually we will lose even that.

"Where in the world are you going to find these angels, who are going to organize society for us"? - Milton Friedman
Angels that are beyond corruption, beyond the inherent frailty of mankind. Where are these super beings, that will swoop down from the sky and organize everything for us and will end corruption and the sins of man?

Fairy Tale.

 

[rightwinger]

Capitalism unchecked becomes dog eat dog

What a fucking retard.

I am not!

Mother had me tested

Yeah, the doctor lied.

The man said I was special

Shows you!

 

[kaz]

So what is your impression of the responses so far?

I'm very surprised. The left wing is more ignorant than I realized.

Tax Cut Economics is pure ignorance that benefits those with the most capital, the most.

I think in general the right wing is more ignorant than the left. This thread has shifted my perspective somewhat, though. It's closer than I thought.

What is the left correct about?

Completely unchecked capitalism does not work for ordinary people. It eats itself and becomes destructive to the comfort of everyday people.

Socialism creates the dependent class, not capitalism. Capitalism creates a need for labor and in self interest businesses hire and give opportunity and training.

You just gave an example of leftist ignorance, not right.

Government is destroying the poor with things like unchecked illegal immigration, the minimum wage, driving up the cost of hiring with endless rules, regulations and taxes. Socialism is the enemy of the poor, not capitalism

 

[kaz]

I'm very surprised. The left wing is more ignorant than I realized.

Tax Cut Economics is pure ignorance that benefits those with the most capital, the most.

I think in general the right wing is more ignorant than the left. This thread has shifted my perspective somewhat, though. It's closer than I thought.

What is the left correct about?

Completely unchecked capitalism does not work for ordinary people. It eats itself and becomes destructive to the comfort of everyday people.

Yep. The screamingly obvious point of equilibrium here is effective and efficient regulation. But the libertarians controlling the GOP and the left wingers controlling the Dems have other ideas.
.

Libertarians are controlling the GOP? You're a complete idiot. There is nothing libertarian about the GOP

 

[Tehon]

I don't agree with the Nordic approach. I think we can do better. What I do agree with is that people aren't ready for the Marxist approach.

The Nordic countries are pretty happy with their model. What would you do to improve it? What do you think is possible today?

I have no desire to improve the Nordic model, it's unsustainable. Today I'm content watching capitalism do its thing, for better or worse.

What do you think is possible today? What would you do if you had the power to change everything?

We have the technology, anything is possible but society has to decide for itself what it wants. There is another way to organize society but it remains hidden in plain sight. So long as that is the case we will continue on this path wrestling over how much control to give to a ruling class. Eventually we will lose even that.

"Where in the world are you going to find these angels, who are going to organize society for us"? - Milton Friedman
Angels that are beyond corruption, beyond the inherent frailty of mankind. Where are these super beings, that will swoop down from the sky and organize everything for us and will end corruption and the sins of man?

Fairy Tale.

We don't need angels to better organize us, just a new way of thinking. Corruption and greed are the products of competition for resources.

But at least you acknowledge that capitalism places limitations on freedom. That doesn't happen everyday.

 

[Uncensored2008]

My statement didn't need clarification. Socialism is a socioeconomic relationship. It is not a form of government.

Socialism requires an authoritarian state to enforce the division of labor and resources. Have you not read Marx?

Whether the "Dictatorship of the Proletarians" or the Kleptocracy of Merkle in Germany, Socialism is ALWAYS authoritarian, and must be so. Evolution drives a species to survive and thrive. Working to ones own harm for the supposed benefit of society violates our basic programming. Hence socialists ALWAYS use force.

 

[rightwinger]

My statement didn't need clarification. Socialism is a socioeconomic relationship. It is not a form of government.

Socialism requires an authoritarian state to enforce the division of labor and resources. Have you not read Marx?

Whether the "Dictatorship of the Proletarians" or the Kleptocracy of Merkle in Germany, Socialism is ALWAYS authoritarian, and must be so. Evolution drives a species to survive and thrive. Working to ones own harm for the supposed benefit of society violates our basic programming. Hence socialists ALWAYS use force.

Absolutely

Nobody in the US is advocating Sicialism

 

[Uncensored2008]

It is not required that a centralized government plan the economy of a community. The centralized government rises out of the need to protect all of the communities from the capitalist invaders.

Capitalist invaders such as those having a yard sale or lemonaide stand.

The totalitarian government rises because men seek to trade in peace, offering value in exchange for value. This is the opposite of socialism, so the state is there to crush the natural goodness of people.

 

[danielpalos]

A supreme social law of any land, is pretty authoritarian.

 

[Uncensored2008]

We don't need angels to better organize us, just a new way of thinking. Corruption and greed are the products of competition for resources.

But at least you acknowledge that capitalism places limitations on freedom. That doesn't happen everyday.

Corruption is the currency of a socialist system. Bribes are how every socialist society operates.

Humans have a survival instinct that has developed through millions of years of evolution. That you think you can override that to cause people to work for their own destruction is delusional.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Where's the option for.
I'm Right-Wing, and I want to end Capitalism?

 

[danielpalos]

Where's the option for.
I'm Right-Wing, and I want to end Capitalism?

just insist on wanting to make the trains, planes, and automobiles, run on time; in the most national and most social manners and fashions in modern times.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Where's the option for.
I'm Right-Wing, and I want to end Capitalism?

Nazis are not "right wing." Not in the way that the terms are used in America. You're views are more closely aligned with Shitflinger than with one like me.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Where's the option for.
I'm Right-Wing, and I want to end Capitalism?

Nazis are not "right wing." Not in the way that the terms are used in America. You're views are more closely aligned with Shitflinger than with one like me.

Americans don't even understand politics.

Right-Wing means for authority, control, order, traditional values, socially Conservative values, clerical values, natural values, hierarchy etc.

Nazis in each category are to the Right of Republicans, and Democrats.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Where's the option for.
I'm Right-Wing, and I want to end Capitalism?

Nazis are not "right wing." Not in the way that the terms are used in America. You're views are more closely aligned with Shitflinger than with one like me.

Americans don't even understand politics.

Right-Wing means for authority, control, order, traditional values, socially Conservative values, clerical values, natural values, hierarchy etc.

Nazis in each category are to the Right of Republicans, and Democrats.

Again, the rotters continent is irrelevant.

In American parlance, the right supports individualism, liberty, and capitalism. The left supports collectivism, authoritarianism, and socialism.

You fit with the left. not the right.

 

[TheDude]

I see intellectually dishonest progressives are shying away from a selection. Most don't know what they want anyway.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Where's the option for.
I'm Right-Wing, and I want to end Capitalism?

Nazis are not "right wing." Not in the way that the terms are used in America. You're views are more closely aligned with Shitflinger than with one like me.

Americans don't even understand politics.

Right-Wing means for authority, control, order, traditional values, socially Conservative values, clerical values, natural values, hierarchy etc.

Nazis in each category are to the Right of Republicans, and Democrats.

Again, the rotters continent is irrelevant.

In American parlance, the right supports individualism, liberty, and capitalism. The left supports collectivism, authoritarianism, and socialism.

You fit with the left. not the right.

A.) The terms Right, and Left wing come from Europe (France)

B.) The terms Right, and Left wing are still usually used properly in Europe. (Except Britain)

C.) I do believe that British people including ones in the U.S.A are too stupid to be taken seriously, they have totally misused politics, they don't understand politics, they are Europe's biggest mistake.

D.) Capitalism does lead to Liberal, and Left Wing values, the Capitalists would love to sell Heroin to kids for profit, Abortions to kids for profit, Porn to kids for profit, Gangster rap music to kids for profit, Gay marriage parties for profit, Hollywood, media, Facebook, Youtube, Google Capitalists promoting Liberalism, it's kind of garbage.

E.) Back towards point C. British people don't understand politics, they are retarded savages for the most part, and I don't value the opinion of such retarded savages.

 

[kaz]

The Nordic countries are pretty happy with their model. What would you do to improve it? What do you think is possible today?

I have no desire to improve the Nordic model, it's unsustainable. Today I'm content watching capitalism do its thing, for better or worse.

What do you think is possible today? What would you do if you had the power to change everything?

We have the technology, anything is possible but society has to decide for itself what it wants. There is another way to organize society but it remains hidden in plain sight. So long as that is the case we will continue on this path wrestling over how much control to give to a ruling class. Eventually we will lose even that.

"Where in the world are you going to find these angels, who are going to organize society for us"? - Milton Friedman
Angels that are beyond corruption, beyond the inherent frailty of mankind. Where are these super beings, that will swoop down from the sky and organize everything for us and will end corruption and the sins of man?

Fairy Tale.

We don't need angels to better organize us, just a new way of thinking. Corruption and greed are the products of competition for resources.

But at least you acknowledge that capitalism places limitations on freedom. That doesn't happen everyday.

Making your own choices is a limit on freedom? That's just inane