POLL: Does the size and role of government exist on a continuum?

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Are you telling me that Americans can’t find their way?

No, you logic challenged dumbass. Goddamn, you people really have the logic skills of a dog turd.

 

[Oddball]

Instead of moving towards the direction of less America, let's move towards the direction of MORE America. That means more liberties, smaller government and a wall to keep unAmericans out.

Smaller Government, just reduce the size of the Military..

For you moonbats, smaller gubmint begins and ends with the military......But y'all mess yourselves at even talking about devolving shit shows like the Department of Education to the states.

 

[Norman]

Instead of moving towards the direction of less America, let's move towards the direction of MORE America. That means more liberties, smaller government and a wall to keep unAmericans out.

Smaller Government, just reduce the size of the Military..

For you moonbats, smaller gubmint begins and ends with the military......But y'all shit yourselves at even talking about devolving shit shows like the Department of Education to the states.

They want to undermine the defense of America by whatever means necessary. Grab the guns, kill the cops, end the military, open the border.

Exactly as you would expect from invaders.

 

[Slade3200]

[
Yes of course it is a continuum in reality. In partisan politics it is an all or nothing slippery slope game. Our politics has devolved into demonizing, stereotyping, and fear mongering. A fair, honest, objective debate is few and far between. Drama is what drives ratings and emotions and that’s what the media and our leaders play off of. We need a disrupter who can find success using good old fashioned character and integrity and intellect. Something to change the tides because we are neck deep in some really ugly crap and sinking fast

Politics has always been about demonizing, stereotyping and fearmongering....The political discourse when Murica started was far more coarse than it is today.

Get a grip.

I don’t find that excuse acceptable. Political battles have always been fought but there was also a common sense of service and respect and collaboration that was involved with governing... now it’s two sides where the others are the enemy. It’s dangerous and counter productive

Just exactly when was that? I am pretty certain it hasn't been that away during my life time.

I've been unable to get a straight answer from another poster on a different thread, so let's try this.

My position is that the size, scope, depth, breadth and authority of governments exist on a continuum. That a country can be, for example, "more" socialist or "less" socialist. "More" authoritarian or "less" authoritarian. "More" capitalist or "less" capitalist.

It seems pretty obvious to me, but I guess not to others.

So please vote and comment, thanks. I voted "Yes, obviously".
.

No.

You either have an authoritarian state or you do not....Varying degrees of relative authoritarian control are irrelevant.....You either have cancer or you do not.

Capitalism is an economic model, not a political one....Socialism is both political and economic.....Black markets (nearly pure capitalism) exist organically outside any form of authoritarian gubmint control.....In fact, such authoritarian tyranny is the root of them being "black" markets.

What can we call portions they are calling capitalism a cancer when laws are skewed to enrich those who are already rich? Like Obama Care, taxpayer funds given to large corporations, taxpayer money spent to develop pharmaceuticals and technologies that is then given to corporations that charge our own citizens excessive costs to use or enjoy that can be purchased in other countries for little to nothing?

Well it's not Capitalism. Capitalism, is when you use your capital.... hence capitalism.... to offer goods and services to the public, in voluntary exchange.

Let me give you an example. A bar tender, decided to make a product to help people hunt. He built the product himself. He traveled around in his old pickup truck, trying to sell them to stores. He was laughed at, shown the door time after time. After a while he started getting some sales. He hired people to make more of them. Now they are sold everywhere, and Phil Robertson is a multimillionaire for selling a Duck Caller.

That is capitalism. Robertson is wealthy not because of some law. There was no law "make duck callers profitable". He became wealthy because he was selling a product that people found valuable.

Now when you point to laws that enrich the already rich, that's like Elon Musk. Solarcity never made a profit, and Tesla has rarely had a profit, and last year lost a Billion dollars.

Yet if you ever see Elon Musk, he's living the high life. How that possible? The answer is socialism. The government has subsidized Elon Musk's companies for years. Solar panel subsidies, subsidies for green-cars, subsidies for green energy grants.... and the list goes on.

That isn't Capitalism. Capitalism is not that you go use government to steal other people's capital, and use it to enrich yourself. That's socialism.

Now as a special side note, let me focus on the complaint about using tax money for research.

I personally would not have government funding any research anywhere, ever.

However, one thing you need to grasp.... people on the left, appear to want to play this game where they can having things both ways.... that they can fund research, but refuse to have anyone profit from it.

This is not a realistic outcome. Nothing happens in this world, if no one can profit from it. Sorry to burst the bubble, but that's the reality.

The only way to have research done, and not have someone profit from it, is to simply lock all the discoveries from that research in a vault somewhere, and have no one use it. And if you do that... then why spend that money on research at all? Either use it to build a road instead, or cut taxes and let the public keep their own money. Why do research just to file it in a safe somewhere, so no one can profit from it?

Because that's the only alternative. If you want someone to use that research to make a product or service the people can use.... no one is going to spend BILLIONS of dollars to use that research to make a drug, only to sell it for 5¢, and make no profit from it.

Would YOU..... YOU yourself... spend a million dollars of your own money, to end up...... just without a million dollars because you are not allowed to make a profit? No. Be honest, you wouldn't. If you wouldn't, who would?

Now if you want to cut research spending, I'm all for it. Let's cut research spending.

But if you, like the vast majority of the left-wing, wants to have research spending, then you can't complain it was used by people to make a profit. You can't have it both ways.

I want a very tight leash put on large corporations and entities that are nothing more than bullies.

You don't have to tell me how to make it as I already did that several times over and it was literally stolen from myself and my husband by extremely very illegal means because they believed that we were a threat and because we don't sell out and I don't need to take payoffs in this country (well its not suppose to work that away as we do have laws if they are enforced but they haven't been). We made our million several times over and we invested back into something else. Neither of us had a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of when we started out.

In my early 20's. I was literally scrapping by on food stamps and a measly welfare check back in the early 80's and no one wanted to give me a job at things I knew about and how to do. I would not have had to be subjected to welfare and food stamps to care for and feed my small children if the state of California would have done their job gathering together child support I was entitled to. Not only that the initial judge order alimony too. I got neither for over ten years only only a few months worth after that while the ex was under the thumb of the court. He died owing me a pretty tidy sum which he never paid. (not a full story but that's the jist of it) I bid a government contract back then because I saw an advertisement for bids and knew it was something I could do. It ultimately ended up I was blacklisted because I refused to be sexually harassed. Over the years we did a lot of things in our own business enterprises that we built or started with our own money no matter how little or great it was. Now take your analogy and shove it.

People did research in private firms and as individuals before. And still do as a matter of fact. Since poverty hit us by way of crooks I've done a hell of a lot of it myself.

As taxpayers the people are spending near a trillion dollars a year for grants to colleges. It could be more I got tired of adding them all up one night when I took the time to look and see what was spent in the way of federal grant money. The greed doesn't stop. In order to justify themselves they like you they need to work for someone else or get someone else's money to make a living by rook or crook. When technology is released that the government paid for if the people in our country is not benefited from that research in the way of lowest cost medicines or new technology the tax payers don't need to fund it. The peoples research investment has giant bloated beastly abominations called pharmaceutical companies that are destroying thousands of children's health in this country with their human experimentation. And ignorant people who haven't a clue like yourself saying that should be forced on them whether their parents want to subject their children to these things or not.

You can call me a lefty as I am not impressed with your story about not having any education either. I have no degrees and walked in junior high after a few days in the 8th grade. I did do a very short stint at the local college later but did not care for the professors there and their business proposal to have me be a madame while they encouraged young'ns to whore for them. I did though faithfully study all my business books and later I also taught myself how to do various tasks that made some fairly decent money over the years,

Those regulations you talk about in the next post you make will and are most definitely applied to the small business enterprises. I know this for a fact. Hell my husband's equipment that the only ones who ran or were subjected to were us; that was Rod's older equipment that he'd paid for previously and worked pretty to hard to keep nice that we were using at the mine operation that I was fined by OSHA several times. The last time the bastards crawled over the gate while the whole thing was shut down but they were a little late because it was already decided at that point that the bank needed to cover up the fraud they committed and they'd also help cover up the fact that my equipment which they loaned money on was designed to fail from the factory so I was already basically out of business. I didn't even fall under the laws OSHA was sicked on me for. Talk about a whole lot of desperate SOB's not wanting someone else to be able to make a living if that person didn't play their corrupt games. If a neighbor goes out and butchers another neighbors cow for them without spending a small fortune on licensing that poor soul will be crucified too. Hell I could possibly raise some chickens and sell them but I wouldn't be able to butcher and freeze them for someone else without going through shitloads of licensing.

Productive bipartisanship can be found in most administrations until Obama took over and the republicans vowed to make him a one term president. That’s when the absolute obstructionism jumped to a new level. It’s only snowballed on both sides since then. Dems are doing no better as the opposition party to Trump. These people should all be embarrassed with how they conduct themselves.

 

[Oddball]

Productive bipartisanship can be found in most administrations until Obama took over and the republicans vowed to make him a one term president. That’s when the absolute obstructionism jumped to a new level. It’s only snowballed on both sides since then. Dems are doing no better as the opposition party to Trump. These people should all be embarrassed with how they conduct themselves.

Meanwhile, "cooperation" gave us the Patriot Act, DHS, TSA, NSA spying on civilians, the abomination of the FISA star chamber, numerous idiotic foreign wars, debt and deficits for as far as the eye can see.

Give me some more that partisanship and "gridlock", thankyouverymuch.

 

[Slade3200]

Productive bipartisanship can be found in most administrations until Obama took over and the republicans vowed to make him a one term president. That’s when the absolute obstructionism jumped to a new level. It’s only snowballed on both sides since then. Dems are doing no better as the opposition party to Trump. These people should all be embarrassed with how they conduct themselves.

Meanwhile, "cooperation" gave us the Patriot Act, DHS, TSA, NSA spying on civilians, the abomination of the FISA star chamber, numerous idiotic foreign wars, debt and deficits for as far as the eye can see.

Give me some more that partisanship and "gridlock", thankyouverymuch.

Prior to the patriot act and advancement t of our intel agencies our lack of intel lead to multiple planes being flown into buildings and thousands of innocent American perishing. You can bitch about how we responded and point out the many mistakes that were made but there were also actions that prevented future events and deaths. See that’s whats wrong with absolutists like yourself. You can’t give an objective account of issues. It’s either all bad or all good. But anybody with a brain knows that’s a load of crap.

 

[RodISHI]

[
Yes of course it is a continuum in reality. In partisan politics it is an all or nothing slippery slope game. Our politics has devolved into demonizing, stereotyping, and fear mongering. A fair, honest, objective debate is few and far between. Drama is what drives ratings and emotions and that’s what the media and our leaders play off of. We need a disrupter who can find success using good old fashioned character and integrity and intellect. Something to change the tides because we are neck deep in some really ugly crap and sinking fast

Politics has always been about demonizing, stereotyping and fearmongering....The political discourse when Murica started was far more coarse than it is today.

Get a grip.

I don’t find that excuse acceptable. Political battles have always been fought but there was also a common sense of service and respect and collaboration that was involved with governing... now it’s two sides where the others are the enemy. It’s dangerous and counter productive

Just exactly when was that? I am pretty certain it hasn't been that away during my life time.

I've been unable to get a straight answer from another poster on a different thread, so let's try this.

My position is that the size, scope, depth, breadth and authority of governments exist on a continuum. That a country can be, for example, "more" socialist or "less" socialist. "More" authoritarian or "less" authoritarian. "More" capitalist or "less" capitalist.

It seems pretty obvious to me, but I guess not to others.

So please vote and comment, thanks. I voted "Yes, obviously".
.

No.

You either have an authoritarian state or you do not....Varying degrees of relative authoritarian control are irrelevant.....You either have cancer or you do not.

Capitalism is an economic model, not a political one....Socialism is both political and economic.....Black markets (nearly pure capitalism) exist organically outside any form of authoritarian gubmint control.....In fact, such authoritarian tyranny is the root of them being "black" markets.

What can we call portions they are calling capitalism a cancer when laws are skewed to enrich those who are already rich? Like Obama Care, taxpayer funds given to large corporations, taxpayer money spent to develop pharmaceuticals and technologies that is then given to corporations that charge our own citizens excessive costs to use or enjoy that can be purchased in other countries for little to nothing?

Well it's not Capitalism. Capitalism, is when you use your capital.... hence capitalism.... to offer goods and services to the public, in voluntary exchange.

Let me give you an example. A bar tender, decided to make a product to help people hunt. He built the product himself. He traveled around in his old pickup truck, trying to sell them to stores. He was laughed at, shown the door time after time. After a while he started getting some sales. He hired people to make more of them. Now they are sold everywhere, and Phil Robertson is a multimillionaire for selling a Duck Caller.

That is capitalism. Robertson is wealthy not because of some law. There was no law "make duck callers profitable". He became wealthy because he was selling a product that people found valuable.

Now when you point to laws that enrich the already rich, that's like Elon Musk. Solarcity never made a profit, and Tesla has rarely had a profit, and last year lost a Billion dollars.

Yet if you ever see Elon Musk, he's living the high life. How that possible? The answer is socialism. The government has subsidized Elon Musk's companies for years. Solar panel subsidies, subsidies for green-cars, subsidies for green energy grants.... and the list goes on.

That isn't Capitalism. Capitalism is not that you go use government to steal other people's capital, and use it to enrich yourself. That's socialism.

Now as a special side note, let me focus on the complaint about using tax money for research.

I personally would not have government funding any research anywhere, ever.

However, one thing you need to grasp.... people on the left, appear to want to play this game where they can having things both ways.... that they can fund research, but refuse to have anyone profit from it.

This is not a realistic outcome. Nothing happens in this world, if no one can profit from it. Sorry to burst the bubble, but that's the reality.

The only way to have research done, and not have someone profit from it, is to simply lock all the discoveries from that research in a vault somewhere, and have no one use it. And if you do that... then why spend that money on research at all? Either use it to build a road instead, or cut taxes and let the public keep their own money. Why do research just to file it in a safe somewhere, so no one can profit from it?

Because that's the only alternative. If you want someone to use that research to make a product or service the people can use.... no one is going to spend BILLIONS of dollars to use that research to make a drug, only to sell it for 5¢, and make no profit from it.

Would YOU..... YOU yourself... spend a million dollars of your own money, to end up...... just without a million dollars because you are not allowed to make a profit? No. Be honest, you wouldn't. If you wouldn't, who would?

Now if you want to cut research spending, I'm all for it. Let's cut research spending.

But if you, like the vast majority of the left-wing, wants to have research spending, then you can't complain it was used by people to make a profit. You can't have it both ways.

I want a very tight leash put on large corporations and entities that are nothing more than bullies.

You don't have to tell me how to make it as I already did that several times over and it was literally stolen from myself and my husband by extremely very illegal means because they believed that we were a threat and because we don't sell out and I don't need to take payoffs in this country (well its not suppose to work that away as we do have laws if they are enforced but they haven't been). We made our million several times over and we invested back into something else. Neither of us had a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of when we started out.

In my early 20's. I was literally scrapping by on food stamps and a measly welfare check back in the early 80's and no one wanted to give me a job at things I knew about and how to do. I would not have had to be subjected to welfare and food stamps to care for and feed my small children if the state of California would have done their job gathering together child support I was entitled to. Not only that the initial judge order alimony too. I got neither for over ten years only only a few months worth after that while the ex was under the thumb of the court. He died owing me a pretty tidy sum which he never paid. (not a full story but that's the jist of it) I bid a government contract back then because I saw an advertisement for bids and knew it was something I could do. It ultimately ended up I was blacklisted because I refused to be sexually harassed. Over the years we did a lot of things in our own business enterprises that we built or started with our own money no matter how little or great it was. Now take your analogy and shove it.

People did research in private firms and as individuals before. And still do as a matter of fact. Since poverty hit us by way of crooks I've done a hell of a lot of it myself.

As taxpayers the people are spending near a trillion dollars a year for grants to colleges. It could be more I got tired of adding them all up one night when I took the time to look and see what was spent in the way of federal grant money. The greed doesn't stop. In order to justify themselves they like you they need to work for someone else or get someone else's money to make a living by rook or crook. When technology is released that the government paid for if the people in our country is not benefited from that research in the way of lowest cost medicines or new technology the tax payers don't need to fund it. The peoples research investment has giant bloated beastly abominations called pharmaceutical companies that are destroying thousands of children's health in this country with their human experimentation. And ignorant people who haven't a clue like yourself saying that should be forced on them whether their parents want to subject their children to these things or not.

You can call me a lefty as I am not impressed with your story about not having any education either. I have no degrees and walked in junior high after a few days in the 8th grade. I did do a very short stint at the local college later but did not care for the professors there and their business proposal to have me be a madame while they encouraged young'ns to whore for them. I did though faithfully study all my business books and later I also taught myself how to do various tasks that made some fairly decent money over the years,

Those regulations you talk about in the next post you make will and are most definitely applied to the small business enterprises. I know this for a fact. Hell my husband's equipment that the only ones who ran or were subjected to were us; that was Rod's older equipment that he'd paid for previously and worked pretty to hard to keep nice that we were using at the mine operation that I was fined by OSHA several times. The last time the bastards crawled over the gate while the whole thing was shut down but they were a little late because it was already decided at that point that the bank needed to cover up the fraud they committed and they'd also help cover up the fact that my equipment which they loaned money on was designed to fail from the factory so I was already basically out of business. I didn't even fall under the laws OSHA was sicked on me for. Talk about a whole lot of desperate SOB's not wanting someone else to be able to make a living if that person didn't play their corrupt games. If a neighbor goes out and butchers another neighbors cow for them without spending a small fortune on licensing that poor soul will be crucified too. Hell I could possibly raise some chickens and sell them but I wouldn't be able to butcher and freeze them for someone else without going through shitloads of licensing.

Productive bipartisanship can be found in most administrations until Obama took over and the republicans vowed to make him a one term president. That’s when the absolute obstructionism jumped to a new level. It’s only snowballed on both sides since then. Dems are doing no better as the opposition party to Trump. These people should all be embarrassed with how they conduct themselves.

I have no clue how old you are but you are dreaming about how nicey nice politics were before Obama. Conservative people of color were called Uncle Toms ever since I can recall by Democrats.

Politics and business is all about greed of money and power. Democrats in politics on a whole have had the dirtier of the lot IMO. Can't say all of them but I can say most I've met.

 

[Oddball]

Productive bipartisanship can be found in most administrations until Obama took over and the republicans vowed to make him a one term president. That’s when the absolute obstructionism jumped to a new level. It’s only snowballed on both sides since then. Dems are doing no better as the opposition party to Trump. These people should all be embarrassed with how they conduct themselves.

Meanwhile, "cooperation" gave us the Patriot Act, DHS, TSA, NSA spying on civilians, the abomination of the FISA star chamber, numerous idiotic foreign wars, debt and deficits for as far as the eye can see.

Give me some more that partisanship and "gridlock", thankyouverymuch.

Prior to the patriot act and advancement t of our intel agencies our lack of intel lead to multiple planes being flown into buildings and thousands of innocent American perishing. You can bitch about how we responded and point out the many mistakes that were made but there were also actions that prevented future events and deaths. See that’s whats wrong with absolutists like yourself. You can’t give an objective account of issues. It’s either all bad or all good. But anybody with a brain knows that’s a load of crap.

There you have it....You're a statist who is all in favor of slow-burn despotism, as long as it has a marginally feasible excuse and is all "bipartisan" and shit.

Schmucks like you are the main reason the nation is fucked beyond repair.

 

[RodISHI]

Productive bipartisanship can be found in most administrations until Obama took over and the republicans vowed to make him a one term president. That’s when the absolute obstructionism jumped to a new level. It’s only snowballed on both sides since then. Dems are doing no better as the opposition party to Trump. These people should all be embarrassed with how they conduct themselves.

Meanwhile, "cooperation" gave us the Patriot Act, DHS, TSA, NSA spying on civilians, the abomination of the FISA star chamber, numerous idiotic foreign wars, debt and deficits for as far as the eye can see.

Give me some more that partisanship and "gridlock", thankyouverymuch.

Prior to the patriot act and advancement t of our intel agencies our lack of intel lead to multiple planes being flown into buildings and thousands of innocent American perishing. You can bitch about how we responded and point out the many mistakes that were made but there were also actions that prevented future events and deaths. See that’s whats wrong with absolutists like yourself. You can’t give an objective account of issues. It’s either all bad or all good. But anybody with a brain knows that’s a load of crap.

There you have it....You're a statist who is all in favor of slow-burn despotism, as long as it has a marginally feasible excuse and is all "bipartisan" and shit.

Schmucks like you are the main reason the nation is fucked beyond repair.

That time I was put under arrest with bogus charges after encouraging people to get out in vote in our little town; the judge insisted I sign an agreement with the court considering my son so they could dispose of the mess they made. My own attorney told me, "You will sign that". I snapped back at him and told him "Don't ever tell me what I will sign or not sign!". There was no way I was giving even an inch of my parental rights up and especially to a corrupt damn judge and his goons. It created a bit of a rift between my attorney and I but that's life. A few years later another person who had been judicially abused concerning parental rights came to me and asked for my help to get that judge off the bench. I told my children always, "Stand firm when it comes to a lie and don't ever say you did something you didn't. You don't ever have to be in agreement with bullies". These attorneys have been taught to make people accept lies and errors for the sake of whatever. I say f'm. If you know its wrong its simple. Don't give an inch.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Meanwhile, "cooperation" gave us the Patriot Act, DHS, TSA, NSA spying on civilians, the abomination of the FISA star chamber, numerous idiotic foreign wars, debt and deficits for as far as the eye can see

It also have us infrastructure, public education, social security, public services,, antitrust laws, and plenty of other good things. So don't be a toddler and turn over the table, just because someone jumped one of your checkers.

 

[Oddball]

That time I was put under arrest with bogus charges after encouraging people to get out in vote in our little town; the judge insisted I sign an agreement with the court considering my son so they could dispose of the mess they made. My own attorney told me, "You will sign that". I snapped back at him and told him "Don't ever tell me what I will sign or not sign!". There was no way I was giving even an inch of my parental rights up and especially to a corrupt damn judge and his goons. It created a bit of a rift between my attorney and I but that's life. A few years later another person who had been judicially abused concerning parental rights came to me and asked for my help to get that judge off the bench. I told my children always, "Stand firm when it comes to a lie and don't ever say you did something you didn't. You don't ever have to be in agreement with bullies". These attorneys have been taught to make people accept lies and errors for the sake of whatever. I say f'm. If you know its wrong its simple. Don't give an inch.

I'm under extremely low risk of being called for jury duty because I don't answer the census and have no voter registration......But if that summons ever arrived, I'd spend my day passing out FIJA pamphlets and take whatever may come.

 

[Oddball]

Meanwhile, "cooperation" gave us the Patriot Act, DHS, TSA, NSA spying on civilians, the abomination of the FISA star chamber, numerous idiotic foreign wars, debt and deficits for as far as the eye can see

It also have us infrastructure, public education, social security, public services,, antitrust laws, and plenty of other good things. So don't be a toddler and turn over the table, just because someone jumped one of your checkers.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Meanwhile, "cooperation" gave us the Patriot Act, DHS, TSA, NSA spying on civilians, the abomination of the FISA star chamber, numerous idiotic foreign wars, debt and deficits for as far as the eye can see

It also have us infrastructure, public education, social security, public services,, antitrust laws, and plenty of other good things. So don't be a toddler and turn over the table, just because someone jumped one of your checkers.

View attachment 279298

That is a retarded meme for retards. Yes, only a retard will say, "it hasn't been done yet, but wait an infinite amount of time, and it may happen! Therefore, we shouldnt have public education!"

More libertarian retard nonsense....

 

[Oddball]

Meanwhile, "cooperation" gave us the Patriot Act, DHS, TSA, NSA spying on civilians, the abomination of the FISA star chamber, numerous idiotic foreign wars, debt and deficits for as far as the eye can see

It also have us infrastructure, public education, social security, public services,, antitrust laws, and plenty of other good things. So don't be a toddler and turn over the table, just because someone jumped one of your checkers.

View attachment 279298

That is a retarded meme for retards. Yes, only a retard will say, "it hasn't been done yet, but wait an infinite amount of time, and it may happen!"

Speaking of toddlers who overturn the table because someone jumped their king!

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Meanwhile, "cooperation" gave us the Patriot Act, DHS, TSA, NSA spying on civilians, the abomination of the FISA star chamber, numerous idiotic foreign wars, debt and deficits for as far as the eye can see

It also have us infrastructure, public education, social security, public services,, antitrust laws, and plenty of other good things. So don't be a toddler and turn over the table, just because someone jumped one of your checkers.

View attachment 279298

That is a retarded meme for retards. Yes, only a retard will say, "it hasn't been done yet, but wait an infinite amount of time, and it may happen!"

Speaking of toddlers who overturn the table because someone jumped their king!

Translation: you cant muster a counterargument.

Yeah, when you have to leave behind the retarded memes and do the work yourself, it gets a bit tougher.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Libertarian retard:

"We dont need public education. The free market will make sure kids get educated. And, if it doesn't, that means kids dont need to be educated."

...thereby immediately demonstrating the need for public education, haha

 

[Mac1958]

So it looks like the Trumpsters are going to complain that the size and scope of the government has become too big...

... while at the same time refusing to admit that the size and scope of government exists on a continuum.

You can't make this shit up.

Why is it so goddamn difficult to just be HONEST? What are you guys AFRAID of?
.

 

[Oddball]

The size and scope of gubmint was too big in 1789.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Here would be my answer:
Absolute power corrupts absolutely; the measure of corruption can be accurately measured by the level and concentration of power.

Let that sink in.
The beauty of the U.S. constitution is its division of power. Not only did it define and separate power, but it spread it out. Not just over 100's of people... but thousands.

And even at that, people who lusted after power grew it outside its constitutional constraints, starting with the first president.

Unfortunately, beginning with FDR, our federal government has increased it's power and influence way-way beyond what was intended by our constitution.
And therefore... corruption has increased.
Now.
I have an idea, lets give them even more power.
What was the definition of insanity again?

It really began with Wilson, but the point is valid.

I'll go part way with you, but I place the blame for stealing power on the Supreme Court.....

....the Constitution does not provide for what is called ‘judicial review,’ nor is the concept found in English law.
The judicial decisions of the Supreme Court should be treated the same way Red and Green lights are treated in Rome....as merely a suggestion.

 

[Andylusion]

[
Yes of course it is a continuum in reality. In partisan politics it is an all or nothing slippery slope game. Our politics has devolved into demonizing, stereotyping, and fear mongering. A fair, honest, objective debate is few and far between. Drama is what drives ratings and emotions and that’s what the media and our leaders play off of. We need a disrupter who can find success using good old fashioned character and integrity and intellect. Something to change the tides because we are neck deep in some really ugly crap and sinking fast

Politics has always been about demonizing, stereotyping and fearmongering....The political discourse when Murica started was far more coarse than it is today.

Get a grip.

I don’t find that excuse acceptable. Political battles have always been fought but there was also a common sense of service and respect and collaboration that was involved with governing... now it’s two sides where the others are the enemy. It’s dangerous and counter productive

Just exactly when was that? I am pretty certain it hasn't been that away during my life time.

I've been unable to get a straight answer from another poster on a different thread, so let's try this.

My position is that the size, scope, depth, breadth and authority of governments exist on a continuum. That a country can be, for example, "more" socialist or "less" socialist. "More" authoritarian or "less" authoritarian. "More" capitalist or "less" capitalist.

It seems pretty obvious to me, but I guess not to others.

So please vote and comment, thanks. I voted "Yes, obviously".
.

No.

You either have an authoritarian state or you do not....Varying degrees of relative authoritarian control are irrelevant.....You either have cancer or you do not.

Capitalism is an economic model, not a political one....Socialism is both political and economic.....Black markets (nearly pure capitalism) exist organically outside any form of authoritarian gubmint control.....In fact, such authoritarian tyranny is the root of them being "black" markets.

What can we call portions they are calling capitalism a cancer when laws are skewed to enrich those who are already rich? Like Obama Care, taxpayer funds given to large corporations, taxpayer money spent to develop pharmaceuticals and technologies that is then given to corporations that charge our own citizens excessive costs to use or enjoy that can be purchased in other countries for little to nothing?

Well it's not Capitalism. Capitalism, is when you use your capital.... hence capitalism.... to offer goods and services to the public, in voluntary exchange.

Let me give you an example. A bar tender, decided to make a product to help people hunt. He built the product himself. He traveled around in his old pickup truck, trying to sell them to stores. He was laughed at, shown the door time after time. After a while he started getting some sales. He hired people to make more of them. Now they are sold everywhere, and Phil Robertson is a multimillionaire for selling a Duck Caller.

That is capitalism. Robertson is wealthy not because of some law. There was no law "make duck callers profitable". He became wealthy because he was selling a product that people found valuable.

Now when you point to laws that enrich the already rich, that's like Elon Musk. Solarcity never made a profit, and Tesla has rarely had a profit, and last year lost a Billion dollars.

Yet if you ever see Elon Musk, he's living the high life. How that possible? The answer is socialism. The government has subsidized Elon Musk's companies for years. Solar panel subsidies, subsidies for green-cars, subsidies for green energy grants.... and the list goes on.

That isn't Capitalism. Capitalism is not that you go use government to steal other people's capital, and use it to enrich yourself. That's socialism.

Now as a special side note, let me focus on the complaint about using tax money for research.

I personally would not have government funding any research anywhere, ever.

However, one thing you need to grasp.... people on the left, appear to want to play this game where they can having things both ways.... that they can fund research, but refuse to have anyone profit from it.

This is not a realistic outcome. Nothing happens in this world, if no one can profit from it. Sorry to burst the bubble, but that's the reality.

The only way to have research done, and not have someone profit from it, is to simply lock all the discoveries from that research in a vault somewhere, and have no one use it. And if you do that... then why spend that money on research at all? Either use it to build a road instead, or cut taxes and let the public keep their own money. Why do research just to file it in a safe somewhere, so no one can profit from it?

Because that's the only alternative. If you want someone to use that research to make a product or service the people can use.... no one is going to spend BILLIONS of dollars to use that research to make a drug, only to sell it for 5¢, and make no profit from it.

Would YOU..... YOU yourself... spend a million dollars of your own money, to end up...... just without a million dollars because you are not allowed to make a profit? No. Be honest, you wouldn't. If you wouldn't, who would?

Now if you want to cut research spending, I'm all for it. Let's cut research spending.

But if you, like the vast majority of the left-wing, wants to have research spending, then you can't complain it was used by people to make a profit. You can't have it both ways.

I want a very tight leash put on large corporations and entities that are nothing more than bullies.

You don't have to tell me how to make it as I already did that several times over and it was literally stolen from myself and my husband by extremely very illegal means because they believed that we were a threat and because we don't sell out and I don't need to take payoffs in this country (well its not suppose to work that away as we do have laws if they are enforced but they haven't been). We made our million several times over and we invested back into something else. Neither of us had a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of when we started out.

In my early 20's. I was literally scrapping by on food stamps and a measly welfare check back in the early 80's and no one wanted to give me a job at things I knew about and how to do. I would not have had to be subjected to welfare and food stamps to care for and feed my small children if the state of California would have done their job gathering together child support I was entitled to. Not only that the initial judge order alimony too. I got neither for over ten years only only a few months worth after that while the ex was under the thumb of the court. He died owing me a pretty tidy sum which he never paid. (not a full story but that's the jist of it) I bid a government contract back then because I saw an advertisement for bids and knew it was something I could do. It ultimately ended up I was blacklisted because I refused to be sexually harassed. Over the years we did a lot of things in our own business enterprises that we built or started with our own money no matter how little or great it was. Now take your analogy and shove it.

People did research in private firms and as individuals before. And still do as a matter of fact. Since poverty hit us by way of crooks I've done a hell of a lot of it myself.

As taxpayers the people are spending near a trillion dollars a year for grants to colleges. It could be more I got tired of adding them all up one night when I took the time to look and see what was spent in the way of federal grant money. The greed doesn't stop. In order to justify themselves they like you they need to work for someone else or get someone else's money to make a living by rook or crook. When technology is released that the government paid for if the people in our country is not benefited from that research in the way of lowest cost medicines or new technology the tax payers don't need to fund it. The peoples research investment has giant bloated beastly abominations called pharmaceutical companies that are destroying thousands of children's health in this country with their human experimentation. And ignorant people who haven't a clue like yourself saying that should be forced on them whether their parents want to subject their children to these things or not.

You can call me a lefty as I am not impressed with your story about not having any education either. I have no degrees and walked in junior high after a few days in the 8th grade. I did do a very short stint at the local college later but did not care for the professors there and their business proposal to have me be a madame while they encouraged young'ns to whore for them. I did though faithfully study all my business books and later I also taught myself how to do various tasks that made some fairly decent money over the years,

Those regulations you talk about in the next post you make will and are most definitely applied to the small business enterprises. I know this for a fact. Hell my husband's equipment that the only ones who ran or were subjected to were us; that was Rod's older equipment that he'd paid for previously and worked pretty to hard to keep nice that we were using at the mine operation that I was fined by OSHA several times. The last time the bastards crawled over the gate while the whole thing was shut down but they were a little late because it was already decided at that point that the bank needed to cover up the fraud they committed and they'd also help cover up the fact that my equipment which they loaned money on was designed to fail from the factory so I was already basically out of business. I didn't even fall under the laws OSHA was sicked on me for. Talk about a whole lot of desperate SOB's not wanting someone else to be able to make a living if that person didn't play their corrupt games. If a neighbor goes out and butchers another neighbors cow for them without spending a small fortune on licensing that poor soul will be crucified too. Hell I could possibly raise some chickens and sell them but I wouldn't be able to butcher and freeze them for someone else without going through shitloads of licensing.

Now take your analogy and shove it.

No, I won't. You are responding with blind emotionalism, very few facts, and it sounds like bitterness and hate.
Nothing you said, contradicted anything I said.

What does anything in my post, have to do with you being bitter that you didn't get the court ordered alimony from your dead ex-husband?

When you want to come on here, and rationally discuss the topic, I'll be more than happy to discuss it with a rational person, that isn't spitting emotionalism at me. So in the mean time.... you can take your screech session, and "shove it" yourself.

As taxpayers the people are spending near a trillion dollars a year for grants to colleges. It could be more I got tired of adding them all up one night when I took the time to look and see what was spent in the way of federal grant money. The greed doesn't stop.

As I said before, I'm in favor of ending all government support for research. All of it. I think is wrong, and even immoral to take money from the poor, and give it to ivy league tenured professors who spend barely 2o hours in the class room.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...-hard-enough/2012/02/15/gIQAn058VS_story.html

But faculty members teaching 12 to 15 hours per week for 30 weeks spend only 360 to 450 hours per year in the classroom. Even in the unlikely event that they devote an equal amount of time to grading and class preparation, their workload is still only 36 to 45 percent of that of non-academic professionals.​

That is sickening, and it is not capitalism. These people get most of their pay from the government, from gov-research grants, gov-education supports, and of course students who pay tons of money in the form of government backed student loans.

All three sources of money are government, government, and government. That is not capitalism. Period.

And ignorant people who haven't a clue like yourself saying that should be forced on them whether their parents want to subject their children to these things or not.

Listen you pathetic bit of human trash... do not.... DO NOT put words in my mouth that I did not say, you worthless pile of poop.
If you do not have the moral decency or mental capability to read what I have written, and respond without making up crap I didn't say, THEN GET OFF THE FORUM YOU DISGUSTING SNOT PILE. You are clearly not an adult that any decent human being should waste their time talking to.
First warning from me.

Fair enough?

You can call me a lefty as I am not impressed with your story about not having any education either.

First, I wasn't trying to impress you. Moreover, based on your disgusting responses, clearly you are not a person worth impressing.

However, the point was, people can succeed in this country, without having all of the benefits of the wealthy. I do not have a Ph.D like my father does. That does not mean that I am stuck flipping whoppers at Burger King until I die. You are the solution to your problems. I was the solution to my problems. I quit the low paying job, and got a higher paying job.

This isn't socialist China where you are designated a rice field to tend, and you are born poor... live poor... and die poor in the rice field.

American is the ultimate choose your own adventure book. If you don't want to work some place, then you choose to work someplace else.

The immigrant who became a drone firm boss

You can be a Mexican immigrant (legal), and setup your own international company, before you even have your green card yet. He didn't even have his work visa just yet, and was making drones at home. He started selling those drones. Soon he was hiring people to build the drones. Now he's a multi-millionaire.

That's American. You can do whatever you want. It's up to you. No one is trapped. Not here.