POLL: Serious question for conservatives: Have you given up?

[g5000]

That's difficult, because I have to translate the word "extreme" -- a hyperbolic word I don't generally use -- into terminology that makes sense to me.

I truly, honestly, sincerely think that the most "extreme" things I'm seeing in politics are the narcissistic, shallow, ignorant, aggressive, binary, irrational behaviors of politicians, pundits, politicos and partisans. I think nothing in this country is more destructive than that, at this moment.

Why? Because THAT then translates into irrational positions, such as blind, reckless tax cutting; blind, reckless deregulation; the support for partial birth abortion; fantastical notions like the Green New Deal; political correctness; identity politics; white nationalism, and others.

The irrational (or in your terminology, "extreme") policy notions are created and enabled by the politicians, pundits, politicos and partisans who are clearly putting party and ideology over country.

There. That's the best I can do based on that question.
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Jackson, Mac has spoken!

But I would like to ask Mac a few questions about his post, and I will start with this one--------------->

RECKLESS TAX CUTTING, your words!

QUESTION-------------> People have debated this one for years, and I understood the Lefts position, until a revelation was shown to me, that I am POSITIVE you are aware of, since you are in the financial industry. That revelation is called the LAFFER CURVE, and I am 100% positive, that you know exactly the theory, so I will not go into it.

And so, since the LAFFER curve is pretty accurate, have our tax rates dropped below the curve? I think not, and in fact, it actually could be dumped more!

The surprising thing about the LAFFER CURVE is----------------> Far Leftists are aware of its existence, and so is Europe. Even intelligent Socialists are aware of this curve, and have been repeatedly hit over the head with it. (if you Far Leftists reading this don't know what the Laffer Curve is, look it up)

So what did Europe do, which is the same thing far Leftists want to do here?

HIDE TAX RATES by using a VAT tax! Then they too can claim they are staying inside the Laffer Curve parameters, and tax the hell out of the middle class and poor people, to pay for their foibles!

I have not done the math myself, and to be honest, to calculate its affect is probably beyond my ability, most articles state that if "even the bottom rate of the proposed VAT was put in, the taxes paid by the middle class would go up by 34%, and those paid by the poor would rise by 157%."

And the rich? (those making over 250,000 a year) 4 to 6%!

It is why the far Left has to make Trump seem crazy, even if his policies were done by past Presidents. They need a way to institute things that give them MORE MONEY, and they know Americans are NOT going to sit and watch tax rate increases, so they are talking VAT!

The Laffer Curve was first posited on the back of a napkin over cocktails by hardcore conservative Art Laffer. And no, it has not proven to be "pretty accurate". For example, it most likely not work on this go-around.

No, I'm not for a VAT. I would have added four new, higher brackets up to 59.9% top end, assuming all current deductions and credits apply.
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LOL Mac. I don't give a damn who wrote it, what they wrote it on, or the political party they were from. From all of the conclusions, has seemed pretty accurate to most people who have looked at it!

Trying to discern if ideas are good or bad, by the political bent of the author, gets us nowhere. In that case, all conservatives should not even listen to Liberal speakers, because obviously they must be wrong!

And by the way---------------> to pay for Europes free everything, they use VAT taxes, correct? Now then, knowing that most of these countries already pay 50% income tax, why don't you guesstimate for all these nice people what their REAL tax rate is for the middle class after the VAT, so that these governments can PAY for all this stuff, and most of them are STILL IN THE RED, and have a minimal defense department, lol.

Go ahead, GUESSTIMATE these peoples REAL tax rate, lol. But before you tell all these nice people on here your conclusion, tell them to sit down lest they fall down-)

The GOP remains in fantasy land regarding taxes. Tell you what: Let's agree to something.

The GOP just LOVES to pretend it's the party of fiscal responsibility, that it's all about lowering taxes & spending. But you and I BOTH know that's BULLSHIT, that it only has the BALLS to do ONE of those things.

So when the following happens, you can lecture me about this stuff: Let's see the GOP commit to cutting spending FIRST, and THEN cutting taxes.

Let's see your candidates run on making big cuts in Social Security. Medicare. Medicaid. Health Care. The EPA. The SEC. The Department of Education. All the cuts they'll need to make if they're honest.

CUTS FIRST.

THEN let's see, after they've been HONEST, if they WIN.

THEN we can talk.
.

Well, at least our peeps aren't trying to BRIBE the country with FREE EVERYTHING!

It is OUR money, NOT the governments. Who the hell are they to tell us we have to give some of OUR money to them, so they can give it to someone else?!?!?!?!?!

That is the problem with you people. You need OUR money to win YOUR races, and YOU know it!

Tell your people to quit offering free stuff, and see if THEY CAN WIN!

Free stuff, like $1.4 trillion of annual tax expenditures which mostly benefit the wealthy.

You are a profoundly retarded person if you think only the poor and Democrats are looking for a government tit to suck.

 

[Ambivalent1]

Jackson, Mac has spoken!

But I would like to ask Mac a few questions about his post, and I will start with this one--------------->

RECKLESS TAX CUTTING, your words!

QUESTION-------------> People have debated this one for years, and I understood the Lefts position, until a revelation was shown to me, that I am POSITIVE you are aware of, since you are in the financial industry. That revelation is called the LAFFER CURVE, and I am 100% positive, that you know exactly the theory, so I will not go into it.

And so, since the LAFFER curve is pretty accurate, have our tax rates dropped below the curve? I think not, and in fact, it actually could be dumped more!

The surprising thing about the LAFFER CURVE is----------------> Far Leftists are aware of its existence, and so is Europe. Even intelligent Socialists are aware of this curve, and have been repeatedly hit over the head with it. (if you Far Leftists reading this don't know what the Laffer Curve is, look it up)

So what did Europe do, which is the same thing far Leftists want to do here?

HIDE TAX RATES by using a VAT tax! Then they too can claim they are staying inside the Laffer Curve parameters, and tax the hell out of the middle class and poor people, to pay for their foibles!

I have not done the math myself, and to be honest, to calculate its affect is probably beyond my ability, most articles state that if "even the bottom rate of the proposed VAT was put in, the taxes paid by the middle class would go up by 34%, and those paid by the poor would rise by 157%."

And the rich? (those making over 250,000 a year) 4 to 6%!

It is why the far Left has to make Trump seem crazy, even if his policies were done by past Presidents. They need a way to institute things that give them MORE MONEY, and they know Americans are NOT going to sit and watch tax rate increases, so they are talking VAT!

The Laffer Curve was first posited on the back of a napkin over cocktails by hardcore conservative Art Laffer. And no, it has not proven to be "pretty accurate". For example, it most likely not work on this go-around.

No, I'm not for a VAT. I would have added four new, higher brackets up to 59.9% top end, assuming all current deductions and credits apply.
.

LOL Mac. I don't give a damn who wrote it, what they wrote it on, or the political party they were from. From all of the conclusions, has seemed pretty accurate to most people who have looked at it!

Trying to discern if ideas are good or bad, by the political bent of the author, gets us nowhere. In that case, all conservatives should not even listen to Liberal speakers, because obviously they must be wrong!

And by the way---------------> to pay for Europes free everything, they use VAT taxes, correct? Now then, knowing that most of these countries already pay 50% income tax, why don't you guesstimate for all these nice people what their REAL tax rate is for the middle class after the VAT, so that these governments can PAY for all this stuff, and most of them are STILL IN THE RED, and have a minimal defense department, lol.

Go ahead, GUESSTIMATE these peoples REAL tax rate, lol. But before you tell all these nice people on here your conclusion, tell them to sit down lest they fall down-)

The GOP remains in fantasy land regarding taxes. Tell you what: Let's agree to something.

The GOP just LOVES to pretend it's the party of fiscal responsibility, that it's all about lowering taxes & spending. But you and I BOTH know that's BULLSHIT, that it only has the BALLS to do ONE of those things.

So when the following happens, you can lecture me about this stuff: Let's see the GOP commit to cutting spending FIRST, and THEN cutting taxes.

Let's see your candidates run on making big cuts in Social Security. Medicare. Medicaid. Health Care. The EPA. The SEC. The Department of Education. All the cuts they'll need to make if they're honest.

CUTS FIRST.

THEN let's see, after they've been HONEST, if they WIN.

THEN we can talk.
.

Well, at least our peeps aren't trying to BRIBE the country with FREE EVERYTHING!

It is OUR money, NOT the governments. Who the hell are they to tell us we have to give some of OUR money to them, so they can give it to someone else?!?!?!?!?!

That is the problem with you people. You need OUR money to win YOUR races, and YOU know it!

Tell your people to quit offering free stuff, and see if THEY CAN WIN!

Free stuff, like $1.4 trillion of annual tax expenditures which mostly benefit the wealthy.

You are a profoundly retarded person if you think only the poor and Democrats are looking for a government tit to suck.

Projection kid.
YOU are a retard who thinks that ALL money belongs to the Gov and that we should just be grateful for what they let us keep.

 

[Mac1958]

The Laffer Curve was first posited on the back of a napkin over cocktails by hardcore conservative Art Laffer. And no, it has not proven to be "pretty accurate". For example, it most likely not work on this go-around.

No, I'm not for a VAT. I would have added four new, higher brackets up to 59.9% top end, assuming all current deductions and credits apply.
.

LOL Mac. I don't give a damn who wrote it, what they wrote it on, or the political party they were from. From all of the conclusions, has seemed pretty accurate to most people who have looked at it!

Trying to discern if ideas are good or bad, by the political bent of the author, gets us nowhere. In that case, all conservatives should not even listen to Liberal speakers, because obviously they must be wrong!

And by the way---------------> to pay for Europes free everything, they use VAT taxes, correct? Now then, knowing that most of these countries already pay 50% income tax, why don't you guesstimate for all these nice people what their REAL tax rate is for the middle class after the VAT, so that these governments can PAY for all this stuff, and most of them are STILL IN THE RED, and have a minimal defense department, lol.

Go ahead, GUESSTIMATE these peoples REAL tax rate, lol. But before you tell all these nice people on here your conclusion, tell them to sit down lest they fall down-)

The GOP remains in fantasy land regarding taxes. Tell you what: Let's agree to something.

The GOP just LOVES to pretend it's the party of fiscal responsibility, that it's all about lowering taxes & spending. But you and I BOTH know that's BULLSHIT, that it only has the BALLS to do ONE of those things.

So when the following happens, you can lecture me about this stuff: Let's see the GOP commit to cutting spending FIRST, and THEN cutting taxes.

Let's see your candidates run on making big cuts in Social Security. Medicare. Medicaid. Health Care. The EPA. The SEC. The Department of Education. All the cuts they'll need to make if they're honest.

CUTS FIRST.

THEN let's see, after they've been HONEST, if they WIN.

THEN we can talk.
.

Well, at least our peeps aren't trying to BRIBE the country with FREE EVERYTHING!

It is OUR money, NOT the governments. Who the hell are they to tell us we have to give some of OUR money to them, so they can give it to someone else?!?!?!?!?!

That is the problem with you people. You need OUR money to win YOUR races, and YOU know it!

Tell your people to quit offering free stuff, and see if THEY CAN WIN!

Deflection noted, thanks.

Look in the mirror, if you dare. Boilerplate talk radio responses won't work with me.
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When you tell me where I lied, I will listen. You in one of your posts, are talking about raising tax rates to 59%. I didn't see you suggesting they cut spending 1st, and in fact being a Democrat means, you must be for free stuff for all, and NOTHING is free, we have to pay for it.

Obviously, you aren't as moderate as you thought, you just haven't fallen off the cliff yet, but the clown car with you in it, is heading that way.

Straw man. I didn't say you lied. I said you deflected. You completely ignored my point and changed the subject. Clearly. It's right there on your screen.

And the second line of my sig addresses the "moderate" lie: 2. >>> For the liars who pretend I claim to be a centrist/moderate/impartial/unbiased/fence-sitter: Come on Jake, man up, just this once.

So you were just intellectually dishonest TWO (2) TIMES in one short post. Congratulations.

I'm actually disappointed. I was assuming you'd at least agree with my point on taxes & spending. Oh well. Nothing here really surprises me any more.
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