POLL: Serious question for conservatives: Have you given up?

[DOTR]

I could easily be wrong here, but I'm seeing little signs here and there that there are conservatives who are more in a salvage operation than a rescue operation.

In other words, I'm getting the impression that they feel the country is clearly going down a different road, and that the major battle has been lost. What some seem to be doing now is trying to salvage what elements of conservatism they can. But other than that, it's over.

Am I right or wrong?

I dunno. I can't speak for "conservatives". And I'm not much good at predictions (I never thought we'd elect Trump). As a libertarian, I'll continue to speak up for limited government and individual freedom, even if conservatives don't.

You consider conservatives and libertarians interchangeable? I don’t. In fact I think libertarians worked with liberals to defeat conservatives.

Oh, I agree totally. But lots of conservatives make a pretense at supporting libertarian values: limited government, individual rights, etc... And those things are worth fighting for even if Trumpsters don't get it.

Those sound like Conservative stated values. Little co-opting there?

 

[westwall]

I could easily be wrong here, but I'm seeing little signs here and there that there are conservatives who are more in a salvage operation than a rescue operation.

In other words, I'm getting the impression that they feel the country is clearly going down a different road, and that the major battle has been lost. What some seem to be doing now is trying to salvage what elements of conservatism they can. But other than that, it's over.

Am I right or wrong?
.

Good question Mac, and now, it appears, you have a clear, and defining answer-)

Maybe you should be asking instead, if moderate Democrats exist any longer, lol!

I don't see many moderates anywhere. That's the problem - moderating voices are being flushed the minute they're heard.
.

Democrats tried the moderate path for 8 years under Obama. What they received in return was complete obstruction.

Merrick Garland is not a Liberal. He is as moderate as you get in a SCOTUS nominee. He was widely praised by Conservatives. It’s why Obama chose him. He appealed to both sides. Look what Republicans did when he was nominated.

So, we tried. Now you get a wave election of progressives in 2018 and an even bigger wave in 2020.

There was nothing even remotely moderate under the Obama admin. Are you drunk?

 

[dblack]

I could easily be wrong here, but I'm seeing little signs here and there that there are conservatives who are more in a salvage operation than a rescue operation.

In other words, I'm getting the impression that they feel the country is clearly going down a different road, and that the major battle has been lost. What some seem to be doing now is trying to salvage what elements of conservatism they can. But other than that, it's over.

Am I right or wrong?

I dunno. I can't speak for "conservatives". And I'm not much good at predictions (I never thought we'd elect Trump). As a libertarian, I'll continue to speak up for limited government and individual freedom, even if conservatives don't.

You consider conservatives and libertarians interchangeable? I don’t. In fact I think libertarians worked with liberals to defeat conservatives.

Oh, I agree totally. But lots of conservatives make a pretense at supporting libertarian values: limited government, individual rights, etc... And those things are worth fighting for even if Trumpsters don't get it.

Those sound like Conservative stated values. Little co-opting there?

Maybe. But there are many conservative values libertarians reject. Both Democrats and Republicans suffer from the same affliction: the myth that every social problem can be solved by passing a law.

 

[Synthaholic]

The Democrats have literally self-destructed

...with the biggest mid-term rout ever.

Keep breathing in that bubble air!

 

[DOTR]

I could easily be wrong here, but I'm seeing little signs here and there that there are conservatives who are more in a salvage operation than a rescue operation.

In other words, I'm getting the impression that they feel the country is clearly going down a different road, and that the major battle has been lost. What some seem to be doing now is trying to salvage what elements of conservatism they can. But other than that, it's over.

Am I right or wrong?

I dunno. I can't speak for "conservatives". And I'm not much good at predictions (I never thought we'd elect Trump). As a libertarian, I'll continue to speak up for limited government and individual freedom, even if conservatives don't.

You consider conservatives and libertarians interchangeable? I don’t. In fact I think libertarians worked with liberals to defeat conservatives.

Oh, I agree totally. But lots of conservatives make a pretense at supporting libertarian values: limited government, individual rights, etc... And those things are worth fighting for even if Trumpsters don't get it.

Those sound like Conservative stated values. Little co-opting there?

Maybe. But there are many conservative values libertarians reject. Both Democrats and Republicans suffer from the same affliction: the myth that every social problem can be solved by passing a law.

The real affliction is the belief that society serves the government rather than vice versa.
And that is where libertarians fail. They fail to recognize the rights of society and so cede the field to the opponents of society.

 

[dblack]

They fail to recognize the rights of society and so cede the field to the opponents of society.

??? How so?

 

[Mac1958]

But the Regressives don't like Joe, and they have most of the energy in the party right now.

Despite all your attempts to present yourself as an above-it-all moderate who looks with disdain at the polarizing of America, you always end up revealing your true self. You’ve never fooled me.

Funny, I have right wingers saying exactly the same thing about me.

What a coincidence!

Oh, and the second line of my sig specifically addresses that "moderate" lie.
.

 

[Synthaholic]

I could easily be wrong here, but I'm seeing little signs here and there that there are conservatives who are more in a salvage operation than a rescue operation.

In other words, I'm getting the impression that they feel the country is clearly going down a different road, and that the major battle has been lost. What some seem to be doing now is trying to salvage what elements of conservatism they can. But other than that, it's over.

Am I right or wrong?
.

Good question Mac, and now, it appears, you have a clear, and defining answer-)

Maybe you should be asking instead, if moderate Democrats exist any longer, lol!

I don't see many moderates anywhere. That's the problem - moderating voices are being flushed the minute they're heard.
.

Democrats tried the moderate path for 8 years under Obama. What they received in return was complete obstruction.

Merrick Garland is not a Liberal. He is as moderate as you get in a SCOTUS nominee. He was widely praised by Conservatives. It’s why Obama chose him. He appealed to both sides. Look what Republicans did when he was nominated.

So, we tried. Now you get a wave election of progressives in 2018 and an even bigger wave in 2020.

There was nothing even remotely moderate under the Obama admin. Are you drunk?

I just gave you a great example. Are you stupid?

 

[Synthaholic]

But the Regressives don't like Joe, and they have most of the energy in the party right now.

Despite all your attempts to present yourself as an above-it-all moderate who looks with disdain at the polarizing of America, you always end up revealing your true self. You’ve never fooled me.

Funny, I have right wingers saying exactly the same thing about me.

What a coincidence!

Oh, and the second line of my sig specifically addresses that "moderate" lie.
.

Then, you should just be considered another wingnut, no more thoughtful than Willow Tree?

 

[Mac1958]

But the Regressives don't like Joe, and they have most of the energy in the party right now.

Despite all your attempts to present yourself as an above-it-all moderate who looks with disdain at the polarizing of America, you always end up revealing your true self. You’ve never fooled me.

Funny, I have right wingers saying exactly the same thing about me.

What a coincidence!

Oh, and the second line of my sig specifically addresses that "moderate" lie.
.

Then, you should just be considered another wingnut, no more thoughtful than Willow Tree?

Whatever you'd like!
.

 

[Synthaholic]

But the Regressives don't like Joe, and they have most of the energy in the party right now.

Despite all your attempts to present yourself as an above-it-all moderate who looks with disdain at the polarizing of America, you always end up revealing your true self. You’ve never fooled me.

Funny, I have right wingers saying exactly the same thing about me.

What a coincidence!

Oh, and the second line of my sig specifically addresses that "moderate" lie.
.

Then, you should just be considered another wingnut, no more thoughtful than Willow Tree?

Whatever you'd like!
.

Then why are you always arguing against extremes, and the base of each party, if you’re not a moderate?

 

[westwall]

I could easily be wrong here, but I'm seeing little signs here and there that there are conservatives who are more in a salvage operation than a rescue operation.

In other words, I'm getting the impression that they feel the country is clearly going down a different road, and that the major battle has been lost. What some seem to be doing now is trying to salvage what elements of conservatism they can. But other than that, it's over.

Am I right or wrong?
.

Good question Mac, and now, it appears, you have a clear, and defining answer-)

Maybe you should be asking instead, if moderate Democrats exist any longer, lol!

I don't see many moderates anywhere. That's the problem - moderating voices are being flushed the minute they're heard.
.

Democrats tried the moderate path for 8 years under Obama. What they received in return was complete obstruction.

Merrick Garland is not a Liberal. He is as moderate as you get in a SCOTUS nominee. He was widely praised by Conservatives. It’s why Obama chose him. He appealed to both sides. Look what Republicans did when he was nominated.

So, we tried. Now you get a wave election of progressives in 2018 and an even bigger wave in 2020.

There was nothing even remotely moderate under the Obama admin. Are you drunk?

I just gave you a great example. Are you stupid?

No, you didn't. Obama's admin was lunatic fringe left and corrupt as hell.

 

[Synthaholic]

Good question Mac, and now, it appears, you have a clear, and defining answer-)

Maybe you should be asking instead, if moderate Democrats exist any longer, lol!

I don't see many moderates anywhere. That's the problem - moderating voices are being flushed the minute they're heard.
.

Democrats tried the moderate path for 8 years under Obama. What they received in return was complete obstruction.

Merrick Garland is not a Liberal. He is as moderate as you get in a SCOTUS nominee. He was widely praised by Conservatives. It’s why Obama chose him. He appealed to both sides. Look what Republicans did when he was nominated.

So, we tried. Now you get a wave election of progressives in 2018 and an even bigger wave in 2020.

There was nothing even remotely moderate under the Obama admin. Are you drunk?

I just gave you a great example. Are you stupid?

No, you didn't. Obama's admin was lunatic fringe left and corrupt as hell.

Ok, you’re stupid. It’s not like we didn’t already know this.

 

[Mac1958]

But the Regressives don't like Joe, and they have most of the energy in the party right now.

Despite all your attempts to present yourself as an above-it-all moderate who looks with disdain at the polarizing of America, you always end up revealing your true self. You’ve never fooled me.

Funny, I have right wingers saying exactly the same thing about me.

What a coincidence!

Oh, and the second line of my sig specifically addresses that "moderate" lie.
.

Then, you should just be considered another wingnut, no more thoughtful than Willow Tree?

Whatever you'd like!
.

Then why are you always arguing against extremes, and the base of each party, if you’re not a moderate?

That depends on your definition. I'm a left-leaning independent, and I've listed my positions on the issues in the link at the end of the second line of my sig.

My "side of the fence" is against the partisan zombies on both whacked out ends of the spectrum, but I'm not moderate on the individual issues.

If you'd like to call me a moderate, call me a moderate. Call me a saxophone if you'd like. Whatever works for ya.
.

 

[Correll]

I could easily be wrong here, but I'm seeing little signs here and there that there are conservatives who are more in a salvage operation than a rescue operation.

In other words, I'm getting the impression that they feel the country is clearly going down a different road, and that the major battle has been lost. What some seem to be doing now is trying to salvage what elements of conservatism they can. But other than that, it's over.

Am I right or wrong?
.

Good question Mac, and now, it appears, you have a clear, and defining answer-)

Maybe you should be asking instead, if moderate Democrats exist any longer, lol!

I don't see many moderates anywhere. That's the problem - moderating voices are being flushed the minute they're heard.
.

Trumps policies are completely moderate. They won the GOP primaries and the general election.

Mac, name me a policy of Trump's that you consider "extreme". Give me the most extreme one.

Putting children in unsanitary, cruel and dangerous detention camps.

As opposed to what? Putting them in adult detention camps with their "parents"?

 

[Slyhunter]

I could easily be wrong here, but I'm seeing little signs here and there that there are conservatives who are more in a salvage operation than a rescue operation.

In other words, I'm getting the impression that they feel the country is clearly going down a different road, and that the major battle has been lost. What some seem to be doing now is trying to salvage what elements of conservatism they can. But other than that, it's over.

Am I right or wrong?
.

Wow, this thread didn't age well. The Democrats have literally self-destructed, and Conservative Republicans have never been stronger. Best wishes with that TDS affliction!

I've been asking this question everywhere, never got an answer and don't expect one here but just for S&Gs....

---- Where the hell do you people get this idea that everybody is either a "Democrat" or a "Republican"? How does that world even work?

Spoken like a true Liberal.

 

[Jackson]

I could easily be wrong here, but I'm seeing little signs here and there that there are conservatives who are more in a salvage operation than a rescue operation.

In other words, I'm getting the impression that they feel the country is clearly going down a different road, and that the major battle has been lost. What some seem to be doing now is trying to salvage what elements of conservatism they can. But other than that, it's over.

Am I right or wrong?
.

Good question Mac, and now, it appears, you have a clear, and defining answer-)

Maybe you should be asking instead, if moderate Democrats exist any longer, lol!

I don't see many moderates anywhere. That's the problem - moderating voices are being flushed the minute they're heard.
.

Trumps policies are completely moderate. They won the GOP primaries and the general election.

Mac, name me a policy of Trump's that you consider "extreme". Give me the most extreme one.

"Extreme" is a hyperbolic, useless term that means essentially nothing. Just like so many other terms tossed around by partisans nowadays.

Look. I believe you when you say that you think Trump is a moderate. I believe that you believe that. So we're perfectly good.
.

Mac, someone asked you to name a policy that is extreme. Can you do that?

 

[Pogo]

I could easily be wrong here, but I'm seeing little signs here and there that there are conservatives who are more in a salvage operation than a rescue operation.

In other words, I'm getting the impression that they feel the country is clearly going down a different road, and that the major battle has been lost. What some seem to be doing now is trying to salvage what elements of conservatism they can. But other than that, it's over.

Am I right or wrong?
.

Wow, this thread didn't age well. The Democrats have literally self-destructed, and Conservative Republicans have never been stronger. Best wishes with that TDS affliction!

I've been asking this question everywhere, never got an answer and don't expect one here but just for S&Gs....

---- Where the hell do you people get this idea that everybody is either a "Democrat" or a "Republican"? How does that world even work?

Spoken like a true Liberal.

And I got the answer I expected ---- crickets. Dichotomists can never explain why they're Dichotomists, but it never seems to occur to them that if their chosen binary perspective has no justification, maybe they need to abandon it.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

I could easily be wrong here, but I'm seeing little signs here and there that there are conservatives who are more in a salvage operation than a rescue operation.

In other words, I'm getting the impression that they feel the country is clearly going down a different road, and that the major battle has been lost. What some seem to be doing now is trying to salvage what elements of conservatism they can. But other than that, it's over.

Am I right or wrong?
.

We lost the war when Reagan became President...

 

[imawhosure]

Good question Mac, and now, it appears, you have a clear, and defining answer-)

Maybe you should be asking instead, if moderate Democrats exist any longer, lol!

I don't see many moderates anywhere. That's the problem - moderating voices are being flushed the minute they're heard.
.

Trumps policies are completely moderate. They won the GOP primaries and the general election.

Mac, name me a policy of Trump's that you consider "extreme". Give me the most extreme one.

"Extreme" is a hyperbolic, useless term that means essentially nothing. Just like so many other terms tossed around by partisans nowadays.

Look. I believe you when you say that you think Trump is a moderate. I believe that you believe that. So we're perfectly good.
.

Mac, someone asked you to name a policy that is extreme. Can you do that?

You know Jackson, it never ceases to amaze me that Mac himself stated in this thread, that he could not! And yet, when you ask Mac about the policies that most of the Leftists running for President want to put in, we can......and he could, pick out many.

When someone tells me something like that, but still will vote for the radicals, that means they are CONFLICTED with reality. Would you or I vote for Trump if he wanted to throw out the electoral college? No! And yet, they will! Would we vote for Trump if he went against current law and allowed illegals the right to vote? No! And yet, the so called moderates will!

If I could NOT vote for a Democrat, then I am blinded. I have voted for Democrats, up until the last midterms. I thought that those I voted for, had the proper position...………...and then they turned it all off after being elected, and turned into Nancy and Chucky Shmucky clones.

If a person tells you that Trump policies are NOT radical, but the Leftists policies are but they are still going to vote for them, they are LOST!