POLL: Ugly Politics

[Crixus]

I was thinking more of the general madness that has taken over political discussion. Believing any and every rumor that puts the other side in a bad light. Personal attacks, name-calling, distortions, deflection, straw man arguments, outright lies.

Full disclosure: I do admit that it's possible it's no worse than before, but it sure as hell seems that way to me.

Y'know, when I see something that is broken, my impulse is to fix it, not make it worse. So a lot of this just doesn't make sense to me.
.

Cons started it. We libs are learning quickly. Getting hit hard over the head with the 2016 2x4 has taught us that we need to raise the temperature to thermonuclear

Well, my argument is that the Regressives played a role in 2016, cramming PC & Identity Politics down the country's throat until it choked and pushed back. The liberals in the videos I posted earlier agree..

So given that definition is Rump a "Regressive"? Cramming "identity politics" like the continuous polarizations of "they're rapists" and "shutdown of Muslims" and "beat the crap out of 'em -- I'll pay your legal fees" and "bleeding from her wherever" and "they're laughing at us" and "you are fake news" and "fire the sumbitches"?

No, but you can try to commandeer the term if you'd like.

I'm not interested in the term really. I just want to know, if that's your definition, why Rump doesn't fit right in there. Because if what he's trolling is not "identity politics" I'm the Queen of Belgium.

Dude, it’s all identity politics. It’s all a fucking personality cult.

 

[Crixus]

Let's assume that most people here enjoy how ugly our politics have become. The Righties jumped all over Obama for every real, perceived, supposed or imagined sin, and the Lefties are doing the same with Trump. It's all reflected on USMB all day, every day. Absolutely as nasty and dirty and ugly as possible, 24/7.

So what motivates you to do this? Choose whatever answers are appropriate.
.

Full disclosure, I was here round 2009 the first time. It was way different. You saw all the jabs and banter, but typically it would end with laughs in the flame zone on Friday. If you need proof, just go look at old posts. It got worse as politics got worse. I blame the 24 news cycle.

You have a point.

The constant info-dump is a factor. In part because it dumbs down the general news and makes the most trite who-cares bullshit into "breaking news" as if it were just as deserving as actual news.

But that was around before 2009. Look at minute-by-minute drooling over the OJ Simpson trial.

Another part of it is celebrity culture.

It what wasn’t around is this, a man was shot robbing a store today at 5. Blah, blah, blah. What’s different is that the news guys add emotion to the story. Sheppard S I th is a perfect excample as is Sean Hannity. Madcow, O’Donnel and so on as you go. Those people are largely to blame, but we hold the lions share. We let our selves get swept up into it. Just like a riot. You don’t know why you are doing it, you just jump in kind of.

 

[MarkDuffy]

OP-er, do you mean attack in the sense of attacking the person airing an idea or position? Or do you mean attacking the idea/proposition, not the person who makes it?

If you mean the former, I'm not terribly given to that other than with regard to individuals who don't exhibit the expected degree of mental acuity when expressing their ideas. With regard to the latter, I "attack" the idea because as the individuals presents it, it's lame, and I'll criticize (constructive or deprecating) the proposition regardless of whether I agree with it because there's no rational basis for leaving to stand unassailed a poorly developed idea, no matter one's personal affinity toward it. I do that because I take public policy design, enactment and implementation, along with governance and leadership quite seriously.

Perhaps that's a personal thing. In my life, since I was a child, I've never found success from doing things half-assed, so I don't have much, if any, tolerance for slovenliness when others -- family, friends, colleagues, or random people -- display it when interacting with me. I don't disrespect others and their ideas by not giving them the best consideration I can, and I don't care to bother with folks who don't do the same.

I mean, at some point, one has to commit to always striving in all they do to be outstandingly, to manifest excellence to the best of one's ability. That's what living is, isn't it? Life isn't about squeaking by; it's about flourishing by taking the bull by the horns. I don't one's advancement and growth stops when one stops doing so, and once one reaches that point, one is a drag on society not a contributor to it.

I was thinking more of the general madness that has taken over political discussion. Believing any and every rumor that puts the other side in a bad light. Personal attacks, name-calling, distortions, deflection, straw man arguments, outright lies.

Full disclosure: I do admit that it's possible it's no worse than before, but it sure as hell seems that way to me.

Y'know, when I see something that is broken, my impulse is to fix it, not make it worse. So a lot of this just doesn't make sense to me.
.

Cons started it. We libs are learning quickly. Getting hit hard over the head with the 2016 2x4 has taught us that we need to raise the temperature to thermonuclear

Well, my argument is that the Regressives played a role in 2016, cramming PC & Identity Politics down the country's throat until it choked and pushed back. The liberals in the videos I posted earlier agree.
.

My team does not have conhatelie&cryradio that started with Rush. Your side has been thermonuclear for decades.

I will admit that getting my team out to vote is damn hard. Your side is lucky we don't vote or you would never win another election.

As far as Identity Politics goes, of course you all hate it. You only have one identity ~ white males women who obey.

Actually, I'm a left-leaning Independent, I voted for Hillary. I'm just horrified about what has happened to the Democrats.

And I agree. If I were to point to one place at which this madness started, I would point to Rush and his merry band of copycats.

I'm virulently anti-PC and anti-Identity Politics because they are divisive, dishonest and counter-productive.
.

Really? Cool, there is hope for both of us.

Yeah the far left is destroying us and playing right into the Cons hands. The far left falls in love, then do not act logically. If they don't get their way, they stay home or even vote for the other team in spite. Cons know how to hold their nose and herd. The far left doesn't even know the word midterms. That is when republicans get power and don't even get me started on state and local elections.

 

[ColonelAngus]

My reason is not in the poll.

I simply like to point out the false logic, hypocrisy, and lack of common sense that most Progs/Snowflakes/Libbies/Dems show on nearly every issue.

Their paradigm makes no sense. The Prog puppet masters tell the snowflakes what to think,. and the snowflakes lap it up like Monica Lewinsky lapping up the Presidential penis.

You can always get to a Prog by simply telling the truth and sticking to facts. They cannot operate in a world of truth and facts. They have to lie about their true intentions.

Do you think you (or anyone else, for that matter) ever change minds, or at least cause second thoughts?
.

I have helped people I know personally to be a bit more educated on issues. One of my best friends voted twice for Obama, but then voted for Trump because I showed him how corrupt Hillary is.

Another pal voted for Hillary because his wife was sexually assaulted when she was a teenager, so TRUMP IS BAD. (They don't mind bill Clinton, though.....odd hypocrisy)

I am hopeful that I have changed a few minds, but likely not very many.....certainly not online. Online Progs don't want any truth or facts. They flat out admit it.

 

[Pogo]

Cons started it. We libs are learning quickly. Getting hit hard over the head with the 2016 2x4 has taught us that we need to raise the temperature to thermonuclear

Well, my argument is that the Regressives played a role in 2016, cramming PC & Identity Politics down the country's throat until it choked and pushed back. The liberals in the videos I posted earlier agree..

So given that definition is Rump a "Regressive"? Cramming "identity politics" like the continuous polarizations of "they're rapists" and "shutdown of Muslims" and "beat the crap out of 'em -- I'll pay your legal fees" and "bleeding from her wherever" and "they're laughing at us" and "you are fake news" and "fire the sumbitches"?

No, but you can try to commandeer the term if you'd like.

I'm not interested in the term really. I just want to know, if that's your definition, why Rump doesn't fit right in there. Because if what he's trolling is not "identity politics" I'm the Queen of Belgium.

Dude, it’s all identity politics. It’s all a fucking personality cult.

It is indeed a personality cult, and we don't elect politicians to office as much as we buy a personality product. That's absolutely true.

But that's not what "identity politics" means. Identity politics means playing social groups off each other as "us" and "them" teams. Groups such as: white people, immigrants, Mexicans, Muslims, women, demonstrators....

 

[Pogo]

I have helped people I know personally to be a bit more educated on issues. One of my best friends voted twice for Obama, but then voted for Trump because I showed him how corrupt Hillary is.

And he didn't point out to you that that is a non sequitur?

Or if you like, a false dichotomy?

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

Let's assume that most people here enjoy how ugly our politics have become. The Righties jumped all over Obama for every real, perceived, supposed or imagined sin, and the Lefties are doing the same with Trump. It's all reflected on USMB all day, every day. Absolutely as nasty and dirty and ugly as possible, 24/7.

So what motivates you to do this? Choose whatever answers are appropriate.
.

I'll bite. I'm so very tired of the shit show that is our current political system. The constant insults to the collective intelligence of American society was pretty bad during the Obama years. It's fucking unbearable now. I'm done. I will shame both sides of the political spectrum equally when I spot the cognitive dissonance and to hell with feelings. There is lots of blame to go around when it comes to the American voter, but the biggest misstep seems a fundamental lack of education when it comes to politics. Nothing new.

The democrats most likely rigged their primaries to give Clinton (the worst candidate I've seen in many years) the nomination. Boo. The Republicans most likely rigged the election to get the biggest douche bag ever elected to the Oval Office. Double boo. We have no 'winners' here, just a gallery of 1%er scoundrels working for themselves, as usual. The American public has been an afterthought at best for decades.

What am I supposed to do about that? Rejoice? Slit my wrists? Real life is too exciting to let the political minutia sway my mood. America will continue to receive the leadership it deserves until it gets off of its fat ass and does something about it. Embrace the schadenfreude.

 

[MarkDuffy]

Let's assume that most people here enjoy how ugly our politics have become. The Righties jumped all over Obama for every real, perceived, supposed or imagined sin, and the Lefties are doing the same with Trump. It's all reflected on USMB all day, every day. Absolutely as nasty and dirty and ugly as possible, 24/7.

So what motivates you to do this? Choose whatever answers are appropriate.
.

Full disclosure, I was here round 2009 the first time. It was way different. You saw all the jabs and banter, but typically it would end with laughs in the flame zone on Friday. If you need proof, just go look at old posts. It got worse as politics got worse. I blame the 24 news cycle.

Don't agree so much with blaming the 24 news cycle. I blame all the channels now in all types of media, especially social media. Everyone follows their own tribe and community is disappearing fast.

 

[MarkDuffy]

Let's assume that most people here enjoy how ugly our politics have become.

Dear, God! I'm going to hope that assumption isn't accurate.

Oh, believe me, often times when I bring this stuff up I'll get people saying it's no big deal, and that it's no worse than before.
.

We thank our lucky stars most of those folks haven't got leadership roles in our society.

Hello? Look who is in the white house

 

[Mac1958]

My reason is not in the poll.

I simply like to point out the false logic, hypocrisy, and lack of common sense that most Progs/Snowflakes/Libbies/Dems show on nearly every issue.

Their paradigm makes no sense. The Prog puppet masters tell the snowflakes what to think,. and the snowflakes lap it up like Monica Lewinsky lapping up the Presidential penis.

You can always get to a Prog by simply telling the truth and sticking to facts. They cannot operate in a world of truth and facts. They have to lie about their true intentions.

Do you think you (or anyone else, for that matter) ever change minds, or at least cause second thoughts?
.

I have helped people I know personally to be a bit more educated on issues. One of my best friends voted twice for Obama, but then voted for Trump because I showed him how corrupt Hillary is.

Another pal vote for Hillary because his wife was sexually assaulted when she was a teenager, so TRUMP IS BAD. (They don't mind bill Clinton, though.....odd hypocrisy)

I am hopeful that I have changed a few minds, but likely not very many.....certainly not online. Online Progs don't want any truth or facts. They flat out admit it.

Yeah, I've pretty much given up trying to have a meaningful conversation online. Seems to me people tend to inflate their political persona to a point where it's pretty much pointless. It's much easier to communicate with someone in person.
.

 

[Crixus]

Well, my argument is that the Regressives played a role in 2016, cramming PC & Identity Politics down the country's throat until it choked and pushed back. The liberals in the videos I posted earlier agree..

So given that definition is Rump a "Regressive"? Cramming "identity politics" like the continuous polarizations of "they're rapists" and "shutdown of Muslims" and "beat the crap out of 'em -- I'll pay your legal fees" and "bleeding from her wherever" and "they're laughing at us" and "you are fake news" and "fire the sumbitches"?

No, but you can try to commandeer the term if you'd like.

I'm not interested in the term really. I just want to know, if that's your definition, why Rump doesn't fit right in there. Because if what he's trolling is not "identity politics" I'm the Queen of Belgium.

Dude, it’s all identity politics. It’s all a fucking personality cult.

It is indeed a personality cult, and we don't elect politicians to office as much as we buy a personality product.

But that's not what "identity politics" means. Identity politics means playing social groups off each other as "us" and "them" teams. Groups such as: white people, immigrants, Mexicans, Muslims, women, demonstrators....

I got that. Thing is, why are we so willing to be manipulated? And why do the polititions do this? Ecause they can and they get a pass as the folks who hate it are yet one more pissed off bunch of people. Polititions, black or white are not good honerable people. They must be considered the same as venomous reptiles. They are a pivotal part of a healthy environment. Even though one may just as soon cut their heads off with a shovel. We are not keeping the polititions in check. This is why trump, and had it not been him it would have been Bernie. One thing for sure, electing trump was just keeping Hillary out of the whitehouse.we are still fucked.

 

[Pogo]

I was thinking more of the general madness that has taken over political discussion. Believing any and every rumor that puts the other side in a bad light. Personal attacks, name-calling, distortions, deflection, straw man arguments, outright lies.

Full disclosure: I do admit that it's possible it's no worse than before, but it sure as hell seems that way to me.

Y'know, when I see something that is broken, my impulse is to fix it, not make it worse. So a lot of this just doesn't make sense to me.
.

Cons started it. We libs are learning quickly. Getting hit hard over the head with the 2016 2x4 has taught us that we need to raise the temperature to thermonuclear

Well, my argument is that the Regressives played a role in 2016, cramming PC & Identity Politics down the country's throat until it choked and pushed back. The liberals in the videos I posted earlier agree..

So given that definition is Rump a "Regressive"? Cramming "identity politics" like the continuous polarizations of "they're rapists" and "shutdown of Muslims" and "beat the crap out of 'em -- I'll pay your legal fees" and "bleeding from her wherever" and "they're laughing at us" and "you are fake news" and "fire the sumbitches"?

No, but you can try to commandeer the term if you'd like.

I'm not interested in the term really. I just want to know, if that's your definition, why Rump doesn't fit right in there. Because if what he's trolling is not "identity politics" I'm the Queen of Belgium.

Apparently the OP is just going to walk away and pretend the double standard above never happened.

 

[Mac1958]

Let's assume that most people here enjoy how ugly our politics have become. The Righties jumped all over Obama for every real, perceived, supposed or imagined sin, and the Lefties are doing the same with Trump. It's all reflected on USMB all day, every day. Absolutely as nasty and dirty and ugly as possible, 24/7.

So what motivates you to do this? Choose whatever answers are appropriate.
.

I'll bite. I'm so very tired of the shit show that is our current political system. The constant insults to the collective intelligence of American society was pretty bad during the Obama years. It's fucking unbearable now. I'm done. I will shame both sides of the political spectrum equally when I spot the cognitive dissonance and to hell with feelings. There is lots of blame to go around when it comes to the American voter, but the biggest misstep seems a fundamental lack of education when it comes to politics. Nothing new.

The democrats most likely rigged their primaries to give Clinton (the worst candidate I've seen in many years) the nomination. Boo. The Republicans most likely rigged the election to get the biggest douche bag ever elected to the Oval Office. Double boo. We have no 'winners' here, just a gallery of 1%er scoundrels working for themselves, as usual. The American public has been an afterthought at best for decades.

What am I supposed to do about that? Rejoice? Slit my wrists? Real life is too exciting to let the political minutia sway my mood. America will continue to receive the leadership it deserves until it gets off of its fat ass and does something about it. Embrace the schadenfreude.

.

 

[Pogo]

So given that definition is Rump a "Regressive"? Cramming "identity politics" like the continuous polarizations of "they're rapists" and "shutdown of Muslims" and "beat the crap out of 'em -- I'll pay your legal fees" and "bleeding from her wherever" and "they're laughing at us" and "you are fake news" and "fire the sumbitches"?

No, but you can try to commandeer the term if you'd like.

I'm not interested in the term really. I just want to know, if that's your definition, why Rump doesn't fit right in there. Because if what he's trolling is not "identity politics" I'm the Queen of Belgium.

Dude, it’s all identity politics. It’s all a fucking personality cult.

It is indeed a personality cult, and we don't elect politicians to office as much as we buy a personality product.

But that's not what "identity politics" means. Identity politics means playing social groups off each other as "us" and "them" teams. Groups such as: white people, immigrants, Mexicans, Muslims, women, demonstrators....

I got that. Thing is, why are we so willing to be manipulated? And why do the polititions do this? Ecause they can and they get a pass as the folks who hate it are yet one more pissed off bunch of people. Polititions, black or white are not good honerable people. They must be considered the same as venomous reptiles. They are a pivotal part of a healthy environment. Even though one may just as soon cut their heads off with a shovel. We are not keeping the polititions in check. This is why trump, and had it not been him it would have been Bernie. One thing for sure, electing trump was just keeping Hillary out of the whitehouse.we are still fucked.

Why do they do that? Because "nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public".

 

[Pogo]

Let's assume that most people here enjoy how ugly our politics have become. The Righties jumped all over Obama for every real, perceived, supposed or imagined sin, and the Lefties are doing the same with Trump. It's all reflected on USMB all day, every day. Absolutely as nasty and dirty and ugly as possible, 24/7.

So what motivates you to do this? Choose whatever answers are appropriate.
.

Full disclosure, I was here round 2009 the first time. It was way different. You saw all the jabs and banter, but typically it would end with laughs in the flame zone on Friday. If you need proof, just go look at old posts. It got worse as politics got worse. I blame the 24 news cycle.

Don't agree so much with blaming the 24 news cycle. I blame all the channels now in all types of media, especially social media. Everyone follows their own tribe and community is disappearing fast.

"Tribe" is very very much the word. NAILED it.

 

[Mac1958]

Cons started it. We libs are learning quickly. Getting hit hard over the head with the 2016 2x4 has taught us that we need to raise the temperature to thermonuclear

Well, my argument is that the Regressives played a role in 2016, cramming PC & Identity Politics down the country's throat until it choked and pushed back. The liberals in the videos I posted earlier agree..

So given that definition is Rump a "Regressive"? Cramming "identity politics" like the continuous polarizations of "they're rapists" and "shutdown of Muslims" and "beat the crap out of 'em -- I'll pay your legal fees" and "bleeding from her wherever" and "they're laughing at us" and "you are fake news" and "fire the sumbitches"?

No, but you can try to commandeer the term if you'd like.

I'm not interested in the term really. I just want to know, if that's your definition, why Rump doesn't fit right in there. Because if what he's trolling is not "identity politics" I'm the Queen of Belgium.

Apparently the OP is just going to walk away and pretend the double standard above never happened.

Or I'm just not paying that much attention to you. I see that troubles you, sorry.

In my opinion, the term Identity Politics has a specific big-picture meaning, and Trump, being his own brand of crazy, does not qualify.

If you disagree, then we disagree. I realize you're approaching this from a certain political perspective.
.

 

[Crixus]

No, but you can try to commandeer the term if you'd like.

I'm not interested in the term really. I just want to know, if that's your definition, why Rump doesn't fit right in there. Because if what he's trolling is not "identity politics" I'm the Queen of Belgium.

Dude, it’s all identity politics. It’s all a fucking personality cult.

It is indeed a personality cult, and we don't elect politicians to office as much as we buy a personality product.

But that's not what "identity politics" means. Identity politics means playing social groups off each other as "us" and "them" teams. Groups such as: white people, immigrants, Mexicans, Muslims, women, demonstrators....

I got that. Thing is, why are we so willing to be manipulated? And why do the polititions do this? Ecause they can and they get a pass as the folks who hate it are yet one more pissed off bunch of people. Polititions, black or white are not good honerable people. They must be considered the same as venomous reptiles. They are a pivotal part of a healthy environment. Even though one may just as soon cut their heads off with a shovel. We are not keeping the polititions in check. This is why trump, and had it not been him it would have been Bernie. One thing for sure, electing trump was just keeping Hillary out of the whitehouse.we are still fucked.

Why do they do that? Because "nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public".

I don’t low ball our voting public. I will say we need to wake the fuck up and stop being lazy. Don’t know how old you are. I was 5 during Reagen. My folks had just moved to the US permanent and were talking politics. It was civilized and cool then. Animated sure, but no one was called stupid. We are far from that. We used to argue ideas, but it’s more easy to just cut and past a meme saying you are a poop head.

 

[MarkDuffy]

Let's assume that most people here enjoy how ugly our politics have become. The Righties jumped all over Obama for every real, perceived, supposed or imagined sin, and the Lefties are doing the same with Trump. It's all reflected on USMB all day, every day. Absolutely as nasty and dirty and ugly as possible, 24/7.

So what motivates you to do this? Choose whatever answers are appropriate.
.

I'll bite. I'm so very tired of the shit show that is our current political system. The constant insults to the collective intelligence of American society was pretty bad during the Obama years. It's fucking unbearable now. I'm done. I will shame both sides of the political spectrum equally when I spot the cognitive dissonance and to hell with feelings. There is lots of blame to go around when it comes to the American voter, but the biggest misstep seems a fundamental lack of education when it comes to politics. Nothing new.

The democrats most likely rigged their primaries to give Clinton (the worst candidate I've seen in many years) the nomination. Boo. The Republicans most likely rigged the election to get the biggest douche bag ever elected to the Oval Office. Double boo. We have no 'winners' here, just a gallery of 1%er scoundrels working for themselves, as usual. The American public has been an afterthought at best for decades.

What am I supposed to do about that? Rejoice? Slit my wrists? Real life is too exciting to let the political minutia sway my mood. America will continue to receive the leadership it deserves until it gets off of its fat ass and does something about it. Embrace the schadenfreude.

We Dems did not rig anything. You probably mean superdelegates. Bernie should have joined the party, it was his own fault. Why would a Dem super vote for a non Dem? Why would the DNC favor a non Dem?

And the punchline is that Hillary won against bernie w/o the supers.

trump was smart enough to join the GOP to take full advantage of party politics.

You can go back to 2008 and Hillary also had the initial super lead. Obama stole them, ALL of them. Our system works.

 

[yiostheoy]

Trump wants to cut his tax bill by 100% so he comes up with this tax reform façade that eliminates Jimmy Carter's Alt Min Tax.

 

[yiostheoy]

Democrats want more taxes on the rich.

Republicans want more tax cuts for the rich.

As East is east and West is west n'ary the twain shall meet.