Pope bans homosexuals from ordination as priests

[manu1959]

But you said:

"The catholic church prior to this bigoted decision maintained the belief that homosexuality is an abomination. "

How is declaring what someone "is" an abomination but not passing judgement on them?

So what you are saying is that the church believed that homosexuality is an abomination but it was an acceptable abomination as long as the homosexuals didn't act on thier desires; as long as they showed restraint. Even though, in their heart, they were homosexuals, and homosexuality is an abomination - the church said, no biggie..they aren't "acting" on their desires so it's all good.

Is that it?

as long as they don't rape the alterboys and send $ back to the vatican ........... dont ask....don't tell

 

[manu1959]

Geeeezzzzzzzzz, now who's going to take care of the lil boys, the Nuns? I can see this one coming.

i would rep you if i could

 

[Bonnie]

They are not sinners in that regard. The catholic church(before this evil cocksucker took over) maintained that homosexual acts were sins but did not pass any judgement on homosexuals who showed restraint with regards to their sexual tendencies. That seems very reasonable to me. Now you are sending a message to all homosexuals telling them that even if they show restraint as before they are still looked at as second rate citizens. That's not very smart and it's definitely bigoted. If you want to dispute that then you might want to take an IQ test to make sure it's in the double digits.

See here is an example of how the church cannot win in your eyes, if they allow homosexuals to be priests you would say they aren't doing enough to protect kids form pedophilia, and now that the church is addressing this problem directly you again have a problem with hypocrisy.

You just hate religion!! Seriously to call the Pope an evil cocksucker, you really have no objectivity at all. You could never hope to achieve in your lifetime what that man has, no matter what you think of this one particular lawsuit pending of which you don't know everything there is to know about it. And just how is not allowing gays to be priests telling them they are second rate citizens??

 

[Powerman]

See here is an example of how the church cannot win in your eyes, if they allow homosexuals to be priests you would say they aren't doing enough to protect kids form pedophilia, and now that the church is addressing this problem directly you again have a problem with hypocrisy.

The way to protect your kids from pedophile priests is to not leave them alone with the priests. Whether or not they are homosexual has little to do with the fact that they are pedophiles. If you believe that pedophiles care that much about gender you are now saying that you care about the boys who get molested but don't care about the girls that get molested.

You just hate religion!! Seriously to call the Pope an evil cocksucker, you really have no objectivity at all. You could never hope to achieve in your lifetime what that man has, no matter what you think of this one particular lawsuit pending of which you don't know everything there is to know about it. And just how is not allowing gays to be priests telling them they are second rate citizens??

I have objectivity alright. Someone who is a defendent in a sex scandal is now shifting the blame to homosexuality and uses it as an excuse to make a very bigoted move against homosexuals.

Not allowing homosexuals to be priests is telling them they are second class citizens the same way that they are telling women they are second class citizens. It's amazing that as a woman you don't see that the church things that you are less valuable than a man.

 

[Bonnie]

Powerman...It's amazing that as a woman you don't see that the church things that you are less valuable than a man.

LOL your kiddding right?? So because women are nuns and men are priests that means the church thinks woman are less valuable than a men?

 

[Gunny]

I would say it takes a developed concious to asses the entire conversation as a whole versus selectively picking out what entertains one most.



Yep, based on this, I am squirming and a basher, go take a :chillpill

Dude, perhaps you should inbibe in your own prescription? My comment was nothing but chill. Hint: salt water will thicken the skin.

 

[Powerman]

LOL your kiddding right?? So because women are nuns and men are priests that means the church thinks woman are less valuable than a men?

Open your eyes...Nuns are powerless in the church. All the positions of power are given to men. And it's not that it's by coincidence, it's that women can't have power in the church. Do you realize how insignificant nuns are in the big scheme of things? Why are men the only ones deemed worthy enough to hold positions of power in the church? Give me one good reason.

 

[GotZoom]

Powerman - are you avoiding my post # 39?

I am very interested in what you have to say.

 

[Bonnie]

Open your eyes...Nuns are powerless in the church. All the positions of power are given to men. And it's not that it's by coincidence, it's that women can't have power in the church. Do you realize how insignificant nuns are in the big scheme of things? Why are men the only ones deemed worthy enough to hold positions of power in the church? Give me one good reason.

Nuns are not powerless they enter the church freely knowing exactly what they want to do, which is teach, and most importantly pray. They have decided to devote their whole lives to those two things...No one is dragging them into that life. Your problem is that you don't see the significance of prayer and devotion, in your eyes it's worthless unless some nun is wearing a power suit and carrying her briefcase taking over the world screaming "take back the night" and "Girl Power." The Catholic church elevates women as Jesus elevated his mother. In my parish there are some very powerful women/nun/school principals and administrators and also women that are not only nuns but hold doctorates in psychology, history, theology, math, english and on and on.
Your second mistake is seeing the church as nothing more than a powergrab or hierarchy because you can't seem to fathom that the church aside from the Vatican is made up of parrishes which are made up of people who freely support those parrishes.
Third thing you need to realize is this, priests fashion their lives after Jesus and how he lived, which means they preach, they live simply and get moved around to what ever parrish needs them, usually every five years or so, they don't marry, they devote their lives to the church and their people not to themsleves.

 

[Powerman]

But you said:

"The catholic church prior to this bigoted decision maintained the belief that homosexuality is an abomination. "

How is declaring what someone "is" an abomination but not passing judgement on them?

So what you are saying is that the church believed that homosexuality is an abomination but it was an acceptable abomination as long as the homosexuals didn't act on thier desires; as long as they showed restraint. Even though, in their heart, they were homosexuals, and homosexuality is an abomination - the church said, no biggie..they aren't "acting" on their desires so it's all good.

Is that it?

That was their stance. It may sound silly to you but that's what catholics believed prior to this ruling. No one cared if you were gay as long as you weren't practicing your gayness. Since priests aren't supposed to be sexaully active anyway then what is the difference if they can actually hold up to their end on the chastity thing. And by the way the Catholic church believes it is also a sin to have lustful thoughts about the opposite sex. So if they really wanted to be fair they should just castrate all people that they want to be priests to insure that none of them have impure thoughts. Afterall what do they need reproductive organs for anyway?

 

[Gunny]

Probably because the Pope is the most influential person in the world. That would be like saying other countries shouldn't care who we elect to be president. Or maybe you shouldn't care who your neighboring state elects to different offices. Or maybe you should. I think you should.

The Pope is NOT the most influential person in the world. He is the most widely-recognized religious leader in the world. He is the Head of the Catholic Church.

Why is what he has to say accepted by even many outside the Catholic Church? I don't know about this Pope due to lack of exposure, but John Paul was very much a champion of the poor, and he preached peace, love and togetherness. It's hard for most rational people to argue with those points.

 

[Gunny]

Open your eyes...Nuns are powerless in the church. All the positions of power are given to men. And it's not that it's by coincidence, it's that women can't have power in the church. Do you realize how insignificant nuns are in the big scheme of things? Why are men the only ones deemed worthy enough to hold positions of power in the church? Give me one good reason.

One good reason: Who cares? I don't know it to be true, or not. However, I'm more inclined to believe Bonnie on the matter than your heathen ass.

 

[Gunny]

That was their stance. It may sound silly to you but that's what catholics believed prior to this ruling. No one cared if you were gay as long as you weren't practicing your gayness. Since priests aren't supposed to be sexaully active anyway then what is the difference if they can actually hold up to their end on the chastity thing. And by the way the Catholic church believes it is also a sin to have lustful thoughts about the opposite sex. So if they really wanted to be fair they should just castrate all people that they want to be priests to insure that none of them have impure thoughts. Afterall what do they need reproductive organs for anyway?

Ahhh ..... I see YOU must be "that person" who presumes to cast the first stone.

 

[Powerman]

The Pope is NOT the most influential person in the world. He is the most widely-recognized religious leader in the world. He is the Head of the Catholic Church.

Why is what he has to say accepted by even many outside the Catholic Church? I don't know about this Pope due to lack of exposure, but John Paul was very much a champion of the poor, and he preached peace, love and togetherness. It's hard for most rational people to argue with those points.

I meant to say one of the most influential people in the world. It came out wrong. Not the first time I made a mistake. But the pope is definitely an influential person. John Paul was a good Pope in those regards. The only problem I had with him was a few years ago when he issued a statement about women "knowing their role" in the church. His views on women were very primitive. But hey he was an old guy so I can't fault him for having old fashioned views with regards to women. The new Pope is definitely a bad selection though. He will take the Church back to the 1800s if he keeps it up.

 

[Powerman]

Ahhh ..... I see YOU must be "that person" who presumes to cast the first stone.

How is favoring equality casting the first stone? It really isn't that much of a concern to me because I know this is just a PR move to let people know that the church doesn't like gay people anyway. It's not as if they will be able to tell who is gay and who is not. Believe it or not, not all gays are that easy to identify on spot.

 

[Powerman]

One good reason: Who cares? I don't know it to be true, or not. However, I'm more inclined to believe Bonnie on the matter than your heathen ass.

You don't know what to be true or not? It's a fact that women can not attain positions of power in the Catholic church.

 

[Gunny]

I meant to say one of the most influential people in the world. It came out wrong. Not the first time I made a mistake. But the pope is definitely an influential person. John Paul was a good Pope in those regards. The only problem I had with him was a few years ago when he issued a statement about women "knowing their role" in the church. His views on women were very primitive. But hey he was an old guy so I can't fault him for having old fashioned views with regards to women. The new Pope is definitely a bad selection though. He will take the Church back to the 1800s if he keeps it up.

That remains to be seen. I'm not much for pronouncing judgement before the fact. Even if he does, this affects me HOW?

How is favoring equality casting the first stone? It really isn't that much of a concern to me because I know this is just a PR move to let people know that the church doesn't like gay people anyway. It's not as if they will be able to tell who is gay and who is not. Believe it or not, not all gays are that easy to identify on spot.

I did not say, nor imply that. Casting the first stone as in "he who is without sin." You pronounced people sinners as if perfection was the standard. It is not. We are ALL imperfect.

If you favor equality, that's fine with me. However, you are the FIRST one to start making noise when you think the church has trespassed in government. Perhaps you should apply the reason rule to yourself in reverse.

You don't know what to be true or not? It's a fact that women can not attain positions of power in the Catholic church.

Whether it is or is not true, it doesn't matter to me, and if you are not a member of the Catholic Church/attend the Catholic Church, it should not matter to you.

 

[MissileMan]

I've got no dog in this fight, but I have to say that this edict appears to defy logic.

I have seen lots of posts suggesting that a person who engages in homosexuality, whether they are born that way or not, is exercising a choice. If a devout,young, Catholic male discovers that he is sexually attracted to the same sex, but wants to be a good Christian, chooses to abstain from homosexual activity, chooses to devote his life to his religion by taking a vow of celibacy and becoming a priest, how is that a bad thing in the eyes of the Catholic Church? If the Pope is really interested in saving souls, wouldn't the opposite policy make more sense?

 

[Bonnie]

I've got no dog in this fight, but I have to say that this edict appears to defy logic.

I have seen lots of posts suggesting that a person who engages in homosexuality, whether they are born that way or not, is exercising a choice. If a devout,young, Catholic male discovers that he is sexually attracted to the same sex, but wants to be a good Christian, chooses to abstain from homosexual activity, chooses to devote his life to his religion by taking a vow of celibacy and becoming a priest, how is that a bad thing in the eyes of the Catholic Church? If the Pope is really interested in saving souls, wouldn't the opposite policy make more sense?

Maybe becasue the church feels it would be too much of a struggle and too much effort would be paid to abstaining rather than just being devoted to the church. Or maybe they just think in the wake of the scandals in the church this is a quick fix? I don't know how they will really enforce it, if everyone that takes the oath is on their honor. I wonder how many of the priests that committing pedaphilia were actually gay?? Maybe the church has statistics on this that would lead them to believe this is the best course of action. I know the church doesn't make decisions lightly or arbritrarily.

 

[MissileMan]

I wonder how many of the priests that committing pedaphilia were actually gay??

That's a good question. Perhaps the kids are just targets of opportunity. Men are men, and denied sex, strange things can happen. Look what's going on in prisons. Maybe it's time for the Church to reconsider allowing priests to marry.