Pope Francis: Even Atheists Can Be Redeemed

[PratchettFan]

Atheists can be redeemed. Everyone can be redeemed. They do so through faith in Christ and His Atoning sacrifice.

No. Once they do that they are no longer Atheists.

The idea of redemption is, at best, a distraction. It focuses one's attention on one's self rather than on others. It is entirely ego driven and best ignored.

 

[Derideo_Te]

"The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! 'Father, the atheists?' Even the atheists. Everyone! And this Blood makes us children of God of the first class. We are created children in the likeness of God and the Blood of Christ has redeemed us all. And we all have a duty to do good. And this commandment for everyone to do good, I think, is a beautiful path towards peace. If we, each doing our own part, if we do good to others, if we meet there, doing good, and we go slowly, gently, little by little, we will make that culture of encounter: We need that so much. We must meet one another doing good. 'But I don't believe, Father, I am an atheist!' But do good: We will meet one another there."

So... doesn't matter whether or not I believe, so long as I'm a good person, I'll get to Heaven if I die?

Well hot damn.

In all seriousness though, I'm posting this to get the forum's opinion on hearing these words. Now obviously Protestants and Catholics are entirely different denominations, and I seriously doubt any Protestant would take anything the Pope says seriously, but to me it sounds like this:

"Don't believe in anything, just be a good person."

I feel like that's the complete opposite of how you want to run your church? Just sayin'...

(If there are any Catholics here, please enlighten me to this. I don't want to insult anyone.)

The RCC retracted the Pope's statement. However when it comes to anecdotal evidence of who ends up in heaven we discover that Atheists having Near Death Experiences have also ended up in the same place as devout believers. So if there is any basis to those NDE's then the requirement to adopt a specific set of beliefs seems moot.

 

[t_polkow]

Whoa, nice edit there. So now you are claiming to be Jewish after your previous post on banning people from teaching religion to thier children?

If you are going to be a troll, at least be a consistent troll.

No only literal fundamentalist religions , you would know that if you can comprehend the posts I made.

Odd, because this is what you quoted in your original post in the above referenced thread:

Every person ever born on this planet was born an atheist. Without exception. Religion is a learned belief. Yet very few people end up being atheists. And even less people are atheists as a child. So what happens between birth and adulthood? What happens is children are indoctrinated at an early age, and by the time they are allowed to question their religion, they are often in too deep to question it.Forced into Faith: How Religion Abuses Children's Rights

Don't see any reference to fundamentalism there....

or in the title.

should children be exposed to religion at an age where they can’t make an educated de

Also, learn about the character limits in post titles.

Nice diversion, very christian and white of you to point that out

 

[The Irish Ram]

So... doesn't matter whether or not I believe, so long as I'm a good person, I'll get to Heaven if I die?

Well hot damn.

In all seriousness though, I'm posting this to get the forum's opinion on hearing these words. Now obviously Protestants and Catholics are entirely different denominations, and I seriously doubt any Protestant would take anything the Pope says seriously, but to me it sounds like this:

"Don't believe in anything, just be a good person."

I feel like that's the complete opposite of how you want to run your church? Just sayin'...

(If there are any Catholics here, please enlighten me to this. I don't want to insult anyone.)

While Catholicism has always stated that they are the "One True Church" when it comes to doctrine, they have never really been that vigourous in saying they are the only exclusive path to salvation. You get that more with "determinist" protestant churches, where they belief is that salvation ONLY comes from God, and man has not role in determining who is saved, and who is not. Catholics have always beleived that while savlation comes from God, it is a persons own CHOICE to accept that salvation, or to reject it.

The RCC has always had the goal of bringing the other churches back into the fold. It is why they allow certian areas of the Church to not follow 100% church doctrine (Eastern Rite Catholics and Celibacy for example)

I think what he is saying is that you can reject it and still be "saved". So long as you are a good person who does good acts, you are fine whether you believe in Jesus or not. Of course, the flip side of that is that if you are not a good person and do not do good acts, you're screwed whether you believe or not. I think that might be a sticking point for a lot of folks.

There is nothing, no thing a human can do to rid himself of sin. It requires pure blood. Period.

If the Pope means that while atheists were still atheists, Christ died for their sin, he would be correct. They have the opportunity to have their sins removed.
BUT
Salvation depends on the atheist accepting Christ's blood, which means they would no longer hold to their atheist beliefs. The very best works aren't even considered, where salvation is concerned.

If the Pope said that atheists can be saved according to their works, then he is in agreement with our own President, and both are anti-Christ, and their message should be dismissed as Satanic.

 

[amrchaos]

I am not accepting any ritual blood from another human being. That is just sick!!

 

[PratchettFan]

While Catholicism has always stated that they are the "One True Church" when it comes to doctrine, they have never really been that vigourous in saying they are the only exclusive path to salvation. You get that more with "determinist" protestant churches, where they belief is that salvation ONLY comes from God, and man has not role in determining who is saved, and who is not. Catholics have always beleived that while savlation comes from God, it is a persons own CHOICE to accept that salvation, or to reject it.

The RCC has always had the goal of bringing the other churches back into the fold. It is why they allow certian areas of the Church to not follow 100% church doctrine (Eastern Rite Catholics and Celibacy for example)

I think what he is saying is that you can reject it and still be "saved". So long as you are a good person who does good acts, you are fine whether you believe in Jesus or not. Of course, the flip side of that is that if you are not a good person and do not do good acts, you're screwed whether you believe or not. I think that might be a sticking point for a lot of folks.

There is nothing, no thing a human can do to rid himself of sin. It requires pure blood. Period.

If the Pope means that while atheists were still atheists, Christ died for their sin, he would be correct. They have the opportunity to have their sins removed.
BUT
Salvation depends on the atheist accepting Christ's blood, which means they would no longer hold to their atheist beliefs. The very best works aren't even considered, where salvation is concerned.

If the Pope said that atheists can be saved according to their works, then he is in agreement with our own President, and both are anti-Christ, and their message should be dismissed as Satanic.

And that sounds good to you.... I really have never been able to wrap my mind around why.

 

[Ravi]

While Catholicism has always stated that they are the "One True Church" when it comes to doctrine, they have never really been that vigourous in saying they are the only exclusive path to salvation. You get that more with "determinist" protestant churches, where they belief is that salvation ONLY comes from God, and man has not role in determining who is saved, and who is not. Catholics have always beleived that while savlation comes from God, it is a persons own CHOICE to accept that salvation, or to reject it.

The RCC has always had the goal of bringing the other churches back into the fold. It is why they allow certian areas of the Church to not follow 100% church doctrine (Eastern Rite Catholics and Celibacy for example)

I think what he is saying is that you can reject it and still be "saved". So long as you are a good person who does good acts, you are fine whether you believe in Jesus or not. Of course, the flip side of that is that if you are not a good person and do not do good acts, you're screwed whether you believe or not. I think that might be a sticking point for a lot of folks.

There is nothing, no thing a human can do to rid himself of sin. It requires pure blood. Period.

If the Pope means that while atheists were still atheists, Christ died for their sin, he would be correct. They have the opportunity to have their sins removed.
BUT
Salvation depends on the atheist accepting Christ's blood, which means they would no longer hold to their atheist beliefs. The very best works aren't even considered, where salvation is concerned.

If the Pope said that atheists can be saved according to their works, then he is in agreement with our own President, and both are anti-Christ, and their message should be dismissed as Satanic.

He wasn't talking about salvation he was talking about redemption. Are you people stuck on stupid or Satanic asswipes? The jury is still out.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Just another reason to sleep in on Sunday.

 

[BreezeWood]

There is nothing, no thing a human can do to rid himself of sin. It requires pure blood. Period.

mankind was not made sinful .... just those who chose the forbidden fruit.

 

[Caroljo]

So... doesn't matter whether or not I believe, so long as I'm a good person, I'll get to Heaven if I die?

Well hot damn.

In all seriousness though, I'm posting this to get the forum's opinion on hearing these words. Now obviously Protestants and Catholics are entirely different denominations, and I seriously doubt any Protestant would take anything the Pope says seriously, but to me it sounds like this:

"Don't believe in anything, just be a good person."

I feel like that's the complete opposite of how you want to run your church? Just sayin'...

(If there are any Catholics here, please enlighten me to this. I don't want to insult anyone.)

The bible calls this the spirit of Anti- Christ. He is denying Jesus Christ is LORD. He is saying Jesus was a liar and as the Pope I'll speak for God so disregard what the bible says and listen to me.

Jesus said, Ye must be born again to enter the Kingdom of heaven. This man says, you don't need salvation, you don't need to be born again to enter heaven. You don't even have to believe in God. He is a mouthpiece for Satan and the Catholics should be making a mass exodus for the door right about now. The bible warns of such false teachers and we are to stay away from them. He is preaching a false gospel here. Very dangerous.

-Jeremiah

He said nothing of the sort. If anyone is a mouthpiece for Satan it is you, you nasty little twit. You really have your work cut out for you if you wish to get into heaven.

No, Jeri is right. Everything she said is what is exactly in the Bible. You just proved that you have never read it. Catholics call themselves Christians, yet they pray to their "saints" and pray to "mary" .... and in the Bible we're told that we're to pray to NO ONE but God, through his Son Jesus Christ. I too believe the Catholic church teaches a false gospel. The ARE dangerous.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

"The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! 'Father, the atheists?' Even the atheists. Everyone! And this Blood makes us children of God of the first class. We are created children in the likeness of God and the Blood of Christ has redeemed us all. And we all have a duty to do good. And this commandment for everyone to do good, I think, is a beautiful path towards peace. If we, each doing our own part, if we do good to others, if we meet there, doing good, and we go slowly, gently, little by little, we will make that culture of encounter: We need that so much. We must meet one another doing good. 'But I don't believe, Father, I am an atheist!' But do good: We will meet one another there."

So... doesn't matter whether or not I believe, so long as I'm a good person, I'll get to Heaven if I die?

Well hot damn.

In all seriousness though, I'm posting this to get the forum's opinion on hearing these words. Now obviously Protestants and Catholics are entirely different denominations, and I seriously doubt any Protestant would take anything the Pope says seriously, but to me it sounds like this:

"Don't believe in anything, just be a good person."

I feel like that's the complete opposite of how you want to run your church? Just sayin'...

(If there are any Catholics here, please enlighten me to this. I don't want to insult anyone.)

You seem to lack reading comprehension skills, perhaps I can help you.

What the pope said is that we can start at the desire to do good that we share, and use that to build a relationship with other people to bring them closer to God.

 

[IrishTexanChick]

I'm an athiest and I'll pass my, "get outta hell free" card to someone else.
I do appreciate that this man/pope seems to be more "modern" and personable than what we've seen in a long time.
I think it will help alot of ppl if he can keep it up. The politics of his "newly appointed" position has taken the wind out of more than a few.
I wish him luck.

 

[Derideo_Te]

There is nothing, no thing a human can do to rid himself of sin. It requires pure blood. Period.

mankind was not made sinful .... just those who chose the forbidden fruit.

But the "forbidden fruit" is KNOWLEDGE ergo everyone who learns how to read and write is "sinful" in the eyes of religion.

 

[Ravi]

The bible calls this the spirit of Anti- Christ. He is denying Jesus Christ is LORD. He is saying Jesus was a liar and as the Pope I'll speak for God so disregard what the bible says and listen to me.

Jesus said, Ye must be born again to enter the Kingdom of heaven. This man says, you don't need salvation, you don't need to be born again to enter heaven. You don't even have to believe in God. He is a mouthpiece for Satan and the Catholics should be making a mass exodus for the door right about now. The bible warns of such false teachers and we are to stay away from them. He is preaching a false gospel here. Very dangerous.

-Jeremiah

He said nothing of the sort. If anyone is a mouthpiece for Satan it is you, you nasty little twit. You really have your work cut out for you if you wish to get into heaven.

No, Jeri is right. Everything she said is what is exactly in the Bible. You just proved that you have never read it. Catholics call themselves Christians, yet they pray to their "saints" and pray to "mary" .... and in the Bible we're told that we're to pray to NO ONE but God, through his Son Jesus Christ. I too believe the Catholic church teaches a false gospel. The ARE dangerous.

Her interpretation of what the pope said was false and you gobbled it right up. I guess the devil is getting to you, how sad.

And look at you, how bigoted of you.

 

[BreezeWood]

There is nothing, no thing a human can do to rid himself of sin. It requires pure blood. Period.

mankind was not made sinful .... just those who chose the forbidden fruit.

But the "forbidden fruit" is KNOWLEDGE ergo everyone who learns how to read and write is "sinful" in the eyes of religion.

The forbidden fruit(s) is not "Knowledge" - the Bible is a textural Tree of Forbidden Fruits that has led astray those who misconstrue its singular purpose of accomplishing Remission to the Everlasting - accomplishable by everyone ... who defeats evil in its entirety.

 

[Derideo_Te]

mankind was not made sinful .... just those who chose the forbidden fruit.

But the "forbidden fruit" is KNOWLEDGE ergo everyone who learns how to read and write is "sinful" in the eyes of religion.

The forbidden fruit(s) is not "Knowledge" - the Bible is a textural Tree of Forbidden Fruits that has led astray those who misconstrue its singular purpose of accomplishing Remission to the Everlasting - accomplishable by everyone ... who defeats evil in its entirety.

Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat of it: for in the day that you eat thereof you shall surely die.

Knowledge was the "original sin". Parsing doesn't change the concept.

 

[BreezeWood]

But the "forbidden fruit" is KNOWLEDGE ergo everyone who learns how to read and write is "sinful" in the eyes of religion.

The forbidden fruit(s) is not "Knowledge" - the Bible is a textural Tree of Forbidden Fruits that has led astray those who misconstrue its singular purpose of accomplishing Remission to the Everlasting - accomplishable by everyone ... who defeats evil in its entirety.

Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat of it: for in the day that you eat thereof you shall surely die.

Knowledge was the "original sin". Parsing doesn't change the concept.

Reading the Bible is a choice (you shall not eat of it) and when in the very onset there exist a "Forbidden Fruit" and you continue to read - (for in the day that you eat thereof you shall surely die).


surely die - this means you will die if you fail to redress your sin - the point of mankind's expulsion.

there are truth's in the Bible - weeding out the Evil is a purpose to read it, for prosperity against who will use it as a weapon but is unnecessary to accomplish Remission.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

There is nothing, no thing a human can do to rid himself of sin. It requires pure blood. Period.

mankind was not made sinful .... just those who chose the forbidden fruit.

But the "forbidden fruit" is KNOWLEDGE ergo everyone who learns how to read and write is "sinful" in the eyes of religion.

Do you realize how stupid you have to be in order to say that?

Of course you don't, if you did you wouldn't have said it.

I want to remind everyone that this pile of bile is the same person who insists that everyone address him with the proper respect, yet he has no problem insulting people in ways that make the most egregious things anyone ever says about him seem like a compliment in comparison.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

But the "forbidden fruit" is KNOWLEDGE ergo everyone who learns how to read and write is "sinful" in the eyes of religion.

The forbidden fruit(s) is not "Knowledge" - the Bible is a textural Tree of Forbidden Fruits that has led astray those who misconstrue its singular purpose of accomplishing Remission to the Everlasting - accomplishable by everyone ... who defeats evil in its entirety.

Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat of it: for in the day that you eat thereof you shall surely die.

Knowledge was the "original sin". Parsing doesn't change the concept.

Disobedience was the sin, not knowledge, asswipe. On top of that the command was not to partake of the knowledge of good and evil. Can you think of any reason a parent would not want his children not to know about the bad things in the universe? Other than your attempt to lie about it being about knowledge, that is.