Pope v. Science on Condoms

[LiveUninhibited]

Benedict has never before spoken explicitly on condom use although he has stressed that the Roman Catholic Church is in the forefront of the battle against AIDS. The Vatican encourages sexual abstinence to fight the spread of the disease.

"You can't resolve it with the distribution of condoms," the pope told reporters aboard the Alitalia plane headed to Yaounde, Cameroon. "On the contrary, it increases the problem."

FOXNews.com - Pope: Condoms 'Increase' AIDS Epidemic in Africa - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News

Naturally, the international and scientific community were not amused, as stated in this Lancet editorial:

Whether the Pope's error was due to ignorance or a deliberate attempt to manipulate science to support Catholic ideology is unclear. But the comment still stands and the Vatican's attempts to tweak the Pope's words, further tampering with the truth, is not the way forward. When any influential person, be it a religious or political leader, makes a false scientific statement that could be devastating to the health of millions of people, they should retract or correct the public record. Anything less from Pope Benedict would be an immense disservice to the public and health advocates, including many thousands of Catholics, who work tirelessly to try and prevent the spread of HIV/AIDS worldwide.

Redemption for the Pope? : The Lancet

I can see why the Pope would prefer that people abstain or be faithful instead of rely on condoms, even though merely encouraging that approach is not likely to yield results. But he thinks that condoms exacerbate the problem?!

He really needs to offer a clarification that condoms do help protect against HIV/AIDS, but won't protect you from other consequences of immoral behavior, whatever those might be.

 

[Diuretic]

I think his handlers were getting back to backpedal on this.

 

[rayboyusmc]

I think the whole Catholic Church needs a full body condom.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I think we should all stop thinking that what the pope, or any religious "leader" says actually matters

 

[Midnight Marauder]

He really needs to offer a clarification that condoms do help protect against HIV/AIDS

When they don't break, slip off or leak. Which happens far more than is generally acknowledged.

 

[Diuretic]

He really needs to offer a clarification that condoms do help protect against HIV/AIDS

When they don't break, slip off or leak. Which happens far more than is generally acknowledged.

May as well just fuck without one you reckon?

 

[Midnight Marauder]

He really needs to offer a clarification that condoms do help protect against HIV/AIDS

When they don't break, slip off or leak. Which happens far more than is generally acknowledged.

May as well just fuck without one you reckon?

I don't.

But people should be made generally aware of their failure rate, instead of them being held up as a modern savior. They are a false sense of security.

 

[Diuretic]

When they don't break, slip off or leak. Which happens far more than is generally acknowledged.

May as well just fuck without one you reckon?

I don't.

But people should be made generally aware of their failure rate, instead of them being held up as a modern savior. They are a false sense of security.

But they're better on than off, right?

 

[Epsilon Delta]

This is probably the most irresponsible thing the Catholic Church has done in recent years. Disgraceful how this ultra-prince dares show up to give speeches in Africa and attempt to turn back all that has been accomplished. Benedict Troglodyte! Back to the middle ages with this guy!

 

[GHook93]

Just more ignorance from religious people! Probably you could hear a similar argument from the Mullahs!

 

[Zoom-boing]

There's always two sides to a story.

The United Nations AIDS agency (UNAIDS) in a 2003 study indicated that condoms are ineffective in protecting against HIV an estimated 10 per cent of the time. Other studies have suggested that failure rates might be as high as 50 per cent.

In Thailand, Dr Somchai Pinyopornpanich, deputy head of the Disease Control Department in Bangkok, said that 46.9 per cent of men and 39.1 per cent of women who use condom are infected by HIV-AIDS.

When the Pope said “we risk worsening the problem,” statistics bear that out. Countries like South Africa, which have embraced safe sex and condom use with support from the United Nations, the European Union and non-governmental organisations have seen AIDS explode. Countries that have promoted abstinence and fidelity have cut infection rates.

One study is a case in point. In his research, Edward Green of the Harvard Center for Population and Development Studies looked at Uganda’s ABC method (ABC as in Abstinence; Be faithful; Condom), which was introduced in 1986. His findings indicated that infection rates in that country dropped from 21 per cent to 6 per cent since 1991. Green, who once was a supporter of safe sex and condom use, is now in favour of abstinence and fidelity within couples.

Nova Scotia Scott » Blog Archive » The Pope is right about condoms and AIDS

Many studies, including some by the United Nations, show that nations with highest condom use also have higher HIV-AIDS infection rates.

Norman Hears, a family physician and epidemiologist at the University of California, San Francisco, said that “Condom promotion in Africa has been a disaster”.

And just to measure the danger of Catholic influence, all one has to look is the Philippines, 85 per cent Catholic, were HIV prevalence is a mere 0.01 per cent.

Even the New York Times, which recently attacked the Pope for his “dangerous” words, had to admit that traditional morality, based on abstinence and fidelity, defeated AIDS in the Philippines. In a 20 April 2003 article it said that in the Philippines, “a very low rate of condom use and a very low rate of HIV infection seem to be going hand in hand. AIDS-prevention efforts often focus on condoms, but they are not widely available here—and are mostly shunned—in this conservative Roman Catholic country.”

VATICAN AIDS and the ‘threat’ posed by the Catholic Church - Asia News

 

[LiveUninhibited]

There's always two sides to a story.

The United Nations AIDS agency (UNAIDS) in a 2003 study indicated that condoms are ineffective in protecting against HIV an estimated 10 per cent of the time. Other studies have suggested that failure rates might be as high as 50 per cent.

In Thailand, Dr Somchai Pinyopornpanich, deputy head of the Disease Control Department in Bangkok, said that 46.9 per cent of men and 39.1 per cent of women who use condom are infected by HIV-AIDS.

When the Pope said “we risk worsening the problem,” statistics bear that out. Countries like South Africa, which have embraced safe sex and condom use with support from the United Nations, the European Union and non-governmental organisations have seen AIDS explode. Countries that have promoted abstinence and fidelity have cut infection rates.

One study is a case in point. In his research, Edward Green of the Harvard Center for Population and Development Studies looked at Uganda’s ABC method (ABC as in Abstinence; Be faithful; Condom), which was introduced in 1986. His findings indicated that infection rates in that country dropped from 21 per cent to 6 per cent since 1991. Green, who once was a supporter of safe sex and condom use, is now in favour of abstinence and fidelity within couples.

Nova Scotia Scott » Blog Archive » The Pope is right about condoms and AIDS

Many studies, including some by the United Nations, show that nations with highest condom use also have higher HIV-AIDS infection rates.

Norman Hears, a family physician and epidemiologist at the University of California, San Francisco, said that “Condom promotion in Africa has been a disaster”.

And just to measure the danger of Catholic influence, all one has to look is the Philippines, 85 per cent Catholic, were HIV prevalence is a mere 0.01 per cent.

Even the New York Times, which recently attacked the Pope for his “dangerous” words, had to admit that traditional morality, based on abstinence and fidelity, defeated AIDS in the Philippines. In a 20 April 2003 article it said that in the Philippines, “a very low rate of condom use and a very low rate of HIV infection seem to be going hand in hand. AIDS-prevention efforts often focus on condoms, but they are not widely available here—and are mostly shunned—in this conservative Roman Catholic country.”

VATICAN AIDS and the ‘threat’ posed by the Catholic Church - Asia News

I'd like to see the methods of the study in question, rather than a blog entry vaguely citing it. I don't know if they're talking about people who use a condom every time, or people who do use condoms often but occassionally do not, which is more typical. Did they limit it to people who at least claimed to have used a condom every single time they had sex?

We do know that condoms reduce the transmission rate, but there is, of course, no substitute for people choosing to not be promiscuous and we don't want people to get a false sense of security. You want a comprehensive approach. The Pope really should have said something more along the lines that condoms aren't a sure thing, not that they make it worse.

 

[Zoom-boing]

I'd like to see the methods of the study in question, rather than a blog entry vaguely citing it. I don't know if they're talking about people who use a condom every time, or people who do use condoms often but occassionally do not, which is more typical. Did they limit it to people who at least claimed to have used a condom every single time they had sex?

We do know that condoms reduce the transmission rate, but there is, of course, no substitute for people choosing to not be promiscuous and we don't want people to get a false sense of security. You want a comprehensive approach. The Pope really should have said something more along the lines that condoms aren't a sure thing, not that they make it worse.

This is from the second article I posted.

When the Pope said “we risk worsening the problem,” statistics bear that out. Countries like South Africa, which have embraced safe sex and condom use with support from the United Nations, the European Union and non-governmental organisations have seen AIDS explode. Countries that have promoted abstinence and fidelity have cut infection rates.

If condoms are as effective as touted, shouldn't the AIDS rate have gone down?

 

[DavidS]

He really needs to offer a clarification that condoms do help protect against HIV/AIDS, but won't protect you from other consequences of immoral behavior, whatever those might be.

Immoral behavior?

What's the purpose of speaking out against immoral behavior if you can rectify your sins through believing in Jesus Christ and achieve eternal salvation in paradise for doing so?

Let's say some freak goes out and rapes women and children and then kills them. The hour before his execution he all of a sudden believes in Christ then he's saved vs. a normal human being who doesn't believe in Christ but is a good person and he's damned to eternal hell?

The entire idea behind Christianity is completely illogical. And Catholicism is just another version.

 

[DavidS]

If condoms are as effective as touted, shouldn't the AIDS rate have gone down?

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. If you don't use a condom, then you are highly at risk.

 

[DavidS]

He really needs to offer a clarification that condoms do help protect against HIV/AIDS

When they don't break, slip off or leak. Which happens far more than is generally acknowledged.

May as well just fuck without one you reckon?

Are you serious?

That's like saying that sometimes car brakes fail, so we should buy a car without brakes and just hope for the best. Why use airbags if they sometimes fail, right? Oh and bullet proof vests - they don't work 100% of the time, either - so let's just send our cops out there without them.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

May as well just fuck without one you reckon?

I don't.

But people should be made generally aware of their failure rate, instead of them being held up as a modern savior. They are a false sense of security.

But they're better on than off, right?

That's always been an open question in my mind. They are totally worthless if they break, leak, or slip off. I early on adopted a motto: "When in doubt, keep Russell out" and I was always in doubt.

Most of the time.

No condom ever convinced me it was going to handle the "traffic" so to speak.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

If condoms are as effective as touted, shouldn't the AIDS rate have gone down?

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. If you don't use a condom, then you are highly at risk.

You're highly at risk with or without it. The difference is, maybe with, you have a 50-50 shot. Without, no shot.

 

[DavidS]

If condoms are as effective as touted, shouldn't the AIDS rate have gone down?

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. If you don't use a condom, then you are highly at risk.

You're highly at risk with or without it. The difference is, maybe with, you have a 50-50 shot. Without, no shot.

Actually - no.

You can indeed have unprotected sex with a woman who has full blown AIDS and you won't catch it. Circumcision seems to be some kind of deterrent. Not sure why.

Condoms opponents have seized on the fact that condoms are not 100% perfect in preventing AIDS to further their arguments that abstinence and sex within marriage are the only ways to prevent AIDS.

Condoms, like all contraceptives, are not 100% foolproof. Most condom failure is due to human factors such as the failure to use condoms consistently or incorrect use of the prophylactic. Many of these problems can be corrected through safe sex education, which opponents of condoms also oppose. Poorly manufactured condoms, which are sometimes found in the developing world, or those stored at excessive heats for long periods of time, can also fail. Non-latex condoms, such as those made of sheepskin, are not adequate protect against AIDS because HIV can pass through the larger pores of these condoms.


Claims that latex condoms allow HIV to pass through are unfounded. The pores of latex condoms are too small to allow HIV to pass through. Condoms have been shown to be effective barriers not only to HIV, the virus that causes AIDS, but also to herpes simplex, CMV, hepatitis B, chlamydia and gonorrhea.

 

[Zoom-boing]

David - link?

More on the effectiveness of condom use and AIDS. I would suggest reading the articles linked in their entirety to understand what the Pope is stating about condom use and the spread of AIDS.

We have found no consistent associations between condom use and lower HIV-infection rates, which, 25 years into the pandemic, we should be seeing if this intervention was working.”

So notes Edward C. Green, director of the AIDS Prevention Research Project at the Harvard Center for Population and Development Studies, in response to papal press comments en route to Africa this week.

There is,” Green adds, “a consistent association shown by our best studies, including the U.S.-funded ‘Demographic Health Surveys,’ between greater availability and use of condoms and higher (not lower) HIV-infection rates. This may be due in part to a phenomenon known as risk compensation, meaning that when one uses a risk-reduction ‘technology’ such as condoms, one often loses the benefit (reduction in risk) by ‘compensating’ or taking greater chances than one would take without the risk-reduction technology.”

From Saint Peter’s Square to Harvard Square by Kathryn Jean Lopez on National Review Online