Power Plant Closures

[thereisnospoon]

Decus -

Who do you mean?

A lot of Greens I know back nuclear energy all the way. Not all due, but then that is their choice. Personally I think nuclear is a big part of the solution, supported by tidal, solar thermal and wind where appropriate.

What's a "green"?
I can only imagine

 

[elektra]

400 billion, bullshit, you did not provide a credible source.

One project alone accounts for 2.1 billion $

I stated 500$ billion, now you claim a 100$ billion less? Yet my post was wrong?

You have not included the research and development, how come?

YOUR posit was in the US it was $500 billion over 2 years, at least implying that, AND it gave 'Zero in return'

NOW you want me to give you my sourcing AFTER you said we spent $500 billion in 2 years with "Zero in return'? lol

Weird you are not honest. Oh right, you are a conservative

Next the far left will ignore that they got rich off these fail ventures that made the American workers suffer so the far left white rich elite could get richer.

False premises, distortions and LIES from you, shocking

Third World countries. One of the things they all had in common was a small, very rich elite, small middle class, and a large lower class. They also shared very low economic growth as a result. This has been known for at least 50 years. The US has been going in this direction for at least the last 30 years as we have gradually de-industrialized and government policies (such as trickle down economics) have promoted the shift of wealth from the lower and middle classes to the economic elite

Neo-Liberalism/Conservatives is/has destroyed the American Economy in favor of the so called "Job Creator"... In reality are "Job Exporters"...

"Third World Countries", That is easy to tackle, Dad23 gets his talking points from the number one source of Marxist/Liberal/Democrat talking points, the Howard Zinn classic, The Peoples History of the United States. Yes, call it "History", but what it is, is simple talking points meant to portray the USA as the worst government in history.

People who use Howard Zinn's book is not, "History". It is one-liner talking points, from the Communist/Marxist political activists.

I state the facts, Howard Zinn was a Marxist. Some will read my post, "Communist/Marxist", and think that is redundant, but historically speaking Marxism is the ideology and Communist specifically refers to Russian Communists and all that branched off, like the Communists in third world countries such as Brazil.

One thing all third world countries have in common is they lacked the same education that the United States enjoys.

Another thing Third World Countries share, is a language foreign to English, the bigges tragedy in Mexico's history is clinging to the language of the Spanish Conquerors, thus alienating the peasants from understanding anything in English, which first and foremost means the peasants of Mexico would never easily, get an education, not here in the USA, not in Mexico.

I think of that lost opportunity, to freely speak and learn from United States of America as the tragedy of the 20 Century.

Howard Zinn is a clever man, but I think if more people understood where a tirade such as Dad23 originates, they will see Liberals and the Democrat party as the true, "Red" party.

Yeah, it's NOT speaking English that makes them 3rd world nations *shaking head*

Talk about simplistic, lol

The 2 words Democrats need to say over and over again is 'economic activity'. Give a rich person $1,000 and they will not put it back into the economy. Give the working poor $1,000 and they will put every single penny back into the economy.


"How many times do you have to get hit over the head before you figure out who's hitting you?" - President Harry Truman

Comprehension is a problem for dad2three, I never posted what Dad2three states.

Without lies and distortions the liberal/Democrat follower of the marxist/communist follower has nothing.

Education and development, speaking Spanish in Mexico alienates the peasants of Mexico from the greatest educational system in the world, the USA

A significant fact that Dad2three and Howard Zinn fail to even consider.

Spanish literally destroyed the life of indigenous people south of our border, they have lived in poverty ever since. The smart ones illegally migrate to the great English speaking USA.

Dad2three's post that the rich create Third World Countries is pure ignorance.

 

[bripat9643]

Liekhota means only US coal stations, meanwhile China is building one a week. People like Liekhota will only be happy when the US is dragged down to third world level.

ONE policy conservatives have EVER been on the correct side of US history on? lol

No, what you mean is one policy that the left agrees with. If the country was doing really well or something this president has done turned out really well then the left wing would have something to be smug about. But considering that nothing is going well in the country, unless someone thinks spending a whole lot more money providing health care is good, then the left should be ashamed not smug.

Weird, conservatives fought EVERYTHING that created the middle class, labor laws, union rights, SS, etc. It then went onto being on the wrong side of EVERYTHING that followed, be it womans rights, civil rights, environmental laws like clean air and water, etc

Of course they are first to want to go to war or cut taxes for those that don't need it too!

Nothing going well? You mean after 30+ years of 'trickle down' and conservatives going to the FARRRR right of Nixon, things aren't working the way conservatives said they would? Shocking

80% of the population owns 5% of the wealth.

Who Rules America Wealth Income and Power

The middle class has been eviscerated.

Neo-Liberalism/Conservatives is/has destroyed the American Economy in favor of the so called "Job Creator"... In reality are "Job Exporters"...


Third World countries. One of the things they all had in common was a small, very rich elite, small middle class, and a large lower class. They also shared very low economic growth as a result. This has been known for at least 50 years. The US has been going in this direction for at least the last 30 years as we have gradually de-industrialized and government policies (such as trickle down economics) have promoted the shift of wealth from the lower and middle classes to the economic elite

The, "middle class", was not created by labor laws, unions and social security

I see, know that you are a simpleton.

Sure, before them the US had a flourishing middle class right? lol

Yes, before the Depression, it did have a flourishing middle class. Who do you imagine purchased 20 million Model Ts?

Libertarians are frauds and parasites but unfortunately have been successful in hiding their dangerous disease under war hating, and freedom loving. Sadly their freedom isn't freedom, it is chaos and opens the door to a real loss of democracy.

How does a libertarian qualify as a "parasite?" What "fraud" are they perpetrating? "Their freedom isn't freedom?" What's your idea of freedom, government control? Here's something you obviously don't understand: democracy isn't freedom. This country could use a lot less democracy and lot more of the government keeping its nose out of everyone's business.

 

[Mr. H.]

Money for nothing, and electricity for free.

Move them refrigerators.

 

[Dad2three]

ONE policy conservatives have EVER been on the correct side of US history on? lol

No, what you mean is one policy that the left agrees with. If the country was doing really well or something this president has done turned out really well then the left wing would have something to be smug about. But considering that nothing is going well in the country, unless someone thinks spending a whole lot more money providing health care is good, then the left should be ashamed not smug.

Weird, conservatives fought EVERYTHING that created the middle class, labor laws, union rights, SS, etc. It then went onto being on the wrong side of EVERYTHING that followed, be it womans rights, civil rights, environmental laws like clean air and water, etc

Of course they are first to want to go to war or cut taxes for those that don't need it too!

Nothing going well? You mean after 30+ years of 'trickle down' and conservatives going to the FARRRR right of Nixon, things aren't working the way conservatives said they would? Shocking

80% of the population owns 5% of the wealth.

Who Rules America Wealth Income and Power

The middle class has been eviscerated.

Neo-Liberalism/Conservatives is/has destroyed the American Economy in favor of the so called "Job Creator"... In reality are "Job Exporters"...


Third World countries. One of the things they all had in common was a small, very rich elite, small middle class, and a large lower class. They also shared very low economic growth as a result. This has been known for at least 50 years. The US has been going in this direction for at least the last 30 years as we have gradually de-industrialized and government policies (such as trickle down economics) have promoted the shift of wealth from the lower and middle classes to the economic elite

The, "middle class", was not created by labor laws, unions and social security

I see, know that you are a simpleton.

Sure, before them the US had a flourishing middle class right? lol

Yes, before the Depression, it did have a flourishing middle class. Who do you imagine purchased 20 million Model Ts?

Libertarians are frauds and parasites but unfortunately have been successful in hiding their dangerous disease under war hating, and freedom loving. Sadly their freedom isn't freedom, it is chaos and opens the door to a real loss of democracy.

How does a libertarian qualify as a "parasite?" What "fraud" are they perpetrating? "Their freedom isn't freedom?" What's your idea of freedom, government control? Here's something you obviously don't understand: democracy isn't freedom. This country could use a lot less democracy and lot more of the government keeping its nose out of everyone's business.

Weird, you mean cutting costs by 300% will allow more to buy? lol

And they sold 15 million, OVER 25+ YEARS? lol



The New Deal Launched Unions as Key to Building Middle Class

New Deal labor law provided legal protections that enabled workers to organize unions and to negotiate for higher wages and benefits and for safe working conditions. New Deal legislation put a floor under labor standards, establishing a minimum wage and overtime protections that lifted the incomes of workers across the wage spectrum. The New Deal’s social insurance programs, including Social Security, unemployment insurance, government guarantees for home mortgages, and financial support for poor families with children, worked hand in hand with labor organizing and wage standards to build a broad middle class.

Corporate benevolence did not hand working people good wages. It took a massive movement of striking workers, who faced decades of government suppression, to win the right to organize in 1935. After government spending on World War II finally ended the Depression by creating a full-employment economy, it took another massive wave of strikes to secure agreement from some of the nation’s largest corporations to share post-war industry profits with workers.

The New Deal Launched Unions as Key to Building Middle Class Roosevelt Institute




Our modern image of the middle class comes from the post–World War II era. The 1944 GI Bill provided returning veterans with money for college, businesses and home mortgages. Suddenly, millions of servicemen were able to afford homes of their own for the first time. As a result, residential construction jumped from 114,000 new homes in 1944 to 1.7 million in 1950.

A Brief History of the American Middle Class - TIME


HOW THE G.I. BILL BUILT THE MIDDLE CLASS AND ENHANCED
DEMOCRACY

http://www.scholarsstrategynetwork.org/sites/default/files/ssn_key_findings_mettler_on_gi_bill.pdf



ONE state or nation to EVER use libertarian bullshit? EVER? And no, the US never did, it was protectionists from day 1 AND the Founders WANTED Gov't involved !

 

[Dad2three]

When the price of electric power triples just wait for the environmental wackos to blame it on "corporate greed."

Power Plant Closures

Impact of EPA’s Regulatory Assault on Power Plants: New Regulations to Take More than 72 GW of Electricity Generation Offline and the Plant Closing Announcements Keep Coming…​

''Over 94 percent these retirements will come from generating units at coal-fired power plants, shuttering over one-fifth of the U.S.’s coal-fired generating capacity''

Horrible? lol

WHEN have conservatives EVER been on the correct side pf history on ANY POLICY?

It must be miserable to be a conservative and time after time find your policies and ideals are wrong..

Conservatives, fought clean air, clean water and workplace rules.

Conservatives fought banking regulations and caused the great depression, the great recession and every single banking crises we've ever had. Every-time the conservatives talk about smaller government they've come into power and increased the size and cost of government..

Conservatives simply cannot learn from history.

Day in the Life of a Joe Six-Pack Republican


Joe gets up at 6:00 AM to prepare his morning coffee. He fills his pot full of good clean drinking water because some liberal fought for minimum water quality standards. He takes his daily medication with his first swallow of coffee. His medications are safe to take because some liberal fought to insure their safety and work as advertised.

All but $10.00 of his medications are paid for by his employers medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance, now Joe gets it too. He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs this day. Joe’s bacon is safe to eat because some liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry.

Joe takes his morning shower reaching for his shampoo; His bottle is properly labeled with every ingredient and the amount of its contents because some liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained. Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some tree hugging liberal fought for laws to stop industries from polluting our air. He walks to the subway station for his government subsidized ride to work; it saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees. You see, some liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.

Joe begins his work day; he has a good job with excellent pay, medicals benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joe's employer pays these standards because Joe's employer doesn't want his employees to call the union. If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed he'll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some liberal didn't think he should lose his home because of his temporary misfortune.

It's noon time, Joe needs to make a Bank Deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe’s deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because some liberal wanted to protect Joe’s money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the depression.

Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae underwritten Mortgage and his below market federal student loan because some stupid liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his life-time.

Joe is home from work, he plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive to dad's; his car is among the safest in the world because some liberal fought for car safety standards. He arrives at his boyhood home. He was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers Home Administration because bankers didn't want to make rural loans. The house didn't have electric until some big government liberal stuck his nose where it didn't belong and demanded rural electrification. (Those rural Republicans would still be sitting in the dark.)
He is happy to see his dad who is now retired. His dad lives on Social Security and his union pension because some liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn't have to.


After his visit with dad he gets back in his car for the ride home.

He turns on a radio talk show. The host keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. (He doesn't tell Joe that his beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day)

Joe agrees. "We don't need those big government liberals ruining our lives; after all, I'm a self made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have."

Day of a Republican

Leave it to a lib who has no clue of the subject matter of the thread to resort to politicizing.
It's your go to excuse.
Your post is a complete and utter obfuscation.

ONE policy conservatives have EVER been on the correct side of history on in the US?

Has clean air and water laws ruined US yet? How about unions? SS? Medicare? Min wage? Auto safety laws? ALL were supposed to signal the downfall of US, according to conservatives!


Lowest EFFECTIVE SUSTAINED tax 'burden' on the 'job creators' for 80 years helped US at all?

 

[Dad2three]

As I think most people are aware, the cost of renewables are now dropping quite significantly as the initial investment costs are being repaid.

Any industry in transition requires investment, be it opening a new airport, building a new shipping port or a new football stadium. Ideally, those costs repay themselves over time, and the cost to taxpayers and users balances out over time.

The alternative is simply to continue to use laughably outdated methods and technologies, and in doing so lose thousands of jobs to countries more adept at innovation and design.

Prices for energy in the US will rise in the middle term, particularly as fracking becomes unsustainable. Prices will then drop again in the longer term.

Nonsense. Those so called renewables are not readily available. They are not affordable. They are not able to be widely distributed.
The technology just is not ready for the type of distribution required to meet the country's energy needs. Obama is part of the 'instant gratification' crowd. So in his frustration cut the EPA loose from Congressional oversight for the purpose of ramming 'conservation' down our throats.
The result will be an extension of this sluggish economy. Obama's insane energy policy is tantamount to a new tax on all Americans. More money out of the pockets of Americans means less for them to spend.
Really good ideas from inside the Beltway.

More right wing bullshit. Shocking

But the fastest growing energy sector between now and 2035, bar none, is renewable energy. Take a look at the graph from the EIA below.

Renewable Energy - The Fastest Growing Energy Sector - Investment U

According to a new report by GTM Research and the Solar Energy Industries Association (SEIA), the U.S. installed 930 megawatts (MW) of photovoltaics (PV) in Q3 2013, up 20 percent over Q2 2013 and 35 percent over Q3 2012. This represents the second largest quarter in the history of the U.S. solar market and the largest quarter ever for residential PV installations.

Even more importantly, 2013 is likely to be the first time in more than a decade that the U.S. installs more solar capacity than world leader Germany.

US Solar Industry Records Explosive Growth in Third Quarter

SO OBAMA CAN JUST CUT CONGRESS OUT OF OVERSIGHT OF EPA AND TAXES HUH? LOL. Fukkking wingnutter

 

[Dad2three]

About as much as I love meeting a conservative bitching about abortions while crying about 'takers' who want food for their kids, especially when that conservative probably is sucking off the teet of Gov't!

Translation:

"probably", in context, means Daddy-Zero has NO idea of what any conservative might be doing but his/her/its fevered imagination is hard at work.

Among the 254 counties where food stamp recipients doubled between 2007 and 2011, Republican Mitt Romney won 213 of them in last year’s presidential election, according to U.S. Department of Agriculture data compiled by Bloomberg. Kentucky’s Owsley County, which backed Romney with 81 percent of its vote, has the largest proportion of food stamp recipients among those that he carried.

Food Stamp Cut Backed by Republicans With Voters on Rolls - Bloomberg

Red States Mostly Welfare States Dependent On Blue States But Likely Too Uninformed to Know

Red States Mostly Welfare States Dependent On Blue States But Likely Too Uninformed to Know



Blue States are from Scandinavia, Red States are from Guatemala A theory of a divided nation

In the red states, government is cheaper, which means the people who live there pay lower taxes. But they also get a lot less in return. The unemployment checks run out more quickly and the schools generally aren’t as good. Assistance with health care, child care, and housing is skimpier, if it exists at all. The result of this divergence is that one half of the country looks more and more like Scandinavia, while the other increasingly resembles a social Darwinist’s paradise.

Blue States are from Scandinavia Red States are from Guatemala New Republic

 

[thereisnospoon]

Too funny. We need more nuclear power plants. The improvements in nuclear plant design are nothing short of amazing. Nuclear is 24/7 production and carbon-free. Take a look at molten salt reactors:

Molten Salt Reactors

Technology revolution in nuclear power could slash costs below coal - Telegraph

THORIUM MOLTEN-SALT The Best Reactor You 8217 ve Never Heard Of Raw Science

Sadly many people will refuse to discuss clean coal burning options that presently exist simply because the fuel is coal. The same is true of nuclear. If it's not solar, wind or wave it can't be considered. Tragic that the well-meaning are so close-minded.

.

Got some beach front property in Japan for sell , cheap?


Weird how the 'free market' can't provide for nuclear without the Gov't backing it up?

Funny but I have to ask how much government backing goes into wind and solar? Grants, tax rebates, price subsidies, etc.? You gave to admit that solar and wind only exist because of government support in one form or another.

.

Really? You mean like ANY 'NEW' energy? Why is oil or nukes getting support again?

Another obfuscation.
Fact is these new technologies are cost prohibitive because they have not been fully perfected yet. Investors are not going put up their capital in something they are not convinced will offer them a positive ROI. So the government steps in and offers to subsidize. The thing is, there are no guarantees and if it fails ( Solyndra) we the taxpayer are stuck holding the bag.
Here's the deal....When these alternative energy sources can be made readily available, mass produced/distributed, are just or more efficient than present technology and are comparable in cost to the consumer, you may have your precious new stuff. Until then....You'll just have to wait out the process..

 

[Dad2three]

So NO, you will not give us a credible source for your numbers, we are supposed to trust you? lol

Is this supposed to be in the US? World wide? What time frame (WHEN)? AND you claimed NO PAY OFFS? lol

You support Solar, why, you don't even know the cost.

I say over 500 billion, one project cost 2.1 billion. Ivanpah.

There are over 700 projects just in the usa.

On top of that if we include residential there are over 500,000,000 million projects.

797 commercial projects, one which cost 2.1 billion.

your figure thus far, 0.

I think I am a bit closer to the truth.

The cost is so extreme nobody will admit the cost, all they can do is attack the messenger

China is the world leader in clean energy investment , with $54 billion in investments in renewables in 2013, well above total U.S. investment of $36.7 billion.

U.S. Lags Behind China in Renewables Investments Climate Central

I never mentioned China and Solar? Oh, you think that we only invested 36.7$ billion, my statement still stands, go read the original post and get back to me.

China does not give a hoot about Solar, China invests in Nuclear Power, over 20 reactors under construction as we speak, they also built the Heavy Industry to make the actual Reactor, a incredible feet.

Solar is pure stupidity that has failed the world, as Spain and Germany have reported.

500$ billion in 2 years with zero return.

Weird, YOU keep positing $500 billion spent in 2 years WITHOUT giving a credible source, almost like you were a Faux 'News' host or hate talk radio guy?

I will use source, which confirms my original post, if you had any sort of comprehension beyond your prejudices you would see the link you give states the figure to be, 572$ Billion.

You argue with me for days, come up with a link, that proves me right.

Your are an idiot.

So you WILL not provide a link because you are full of shit. Got it. YOUR posit was simple, $500 billion in 2 years, you then implied it was in the US. With ZERO in return

Fukkking retarded conservatives hold onto ideology about honesty or logic

Yes, someone spends $500 billion and gets ZERO in return, lol. NOT Solar that will give US 30+ years of energy. Or Wind, or hydro, etc..

 

[Dad2three]

So NO, you will not give us a credible source for your numbers, we are supposed to trust you? lol

Is this supposed to be in the US? World wide? What time frame (WHEN)? AND you claimed NO PAY OFFS? lol

You support Solar, why, you don't even know the cost.

I say over 500 billion, one project cost 2.1 billion. Ivanpah.

There are over 700 projects just in the usa.

On top of that if we include residential there are over 500,000,000 million projects.

797 commercial projects, one which cost 2.1 billion.

your figure thus far, 0.

I think I am a bit closer to the truth.

The cost is so extreme nobody will admit the cost, all they can do is attack the messenger

China is the world leader in clean energy investment , with $54 billion in investments in renewables in 2013, well above total U.S. investment of $36.7 billion.

U.S. Lags Behind China in Renewables Investments Climate Central

I never mentioned China and Solar? Oh, you think that we only invested 36.7$ billion, my statement still stands, go read the original post and get back to me.

China does not give a hoot about Solar, China invests in Nuclear Power, over 20 reactors under construction as we speak, they also built the Heavy Industry to make the actual Reactor, a incredible feet.

Solar is pure stupidity that has failed the world, as Spain and Germany have reported.

500$ billion in 2 years with zero return.

Weird, YOU keep positing $500 billion spent in 2 years WITHOUT giving a credible source, almost like you were a Faux 'News' host or hate talk radio guy?

So you have zero idea of the cost, you have yet to offer any figure, of the total cost, what is the total cost of Solar, you are defending Solar, ranting how Solar is cheap and great, but that is a simple platitude, you have zero idea, the figure is not there, as you obviously have found out.

We are not allowed to know the costs, the Green/Renewable energy supporters do not know the costs.

Nothing but pure propane a and rubbish.

Again, you prove my point, you can not account nor grasp the costs.

Got it, only YOU know the costs, everyone else are idiots. Weird you should be able to source YOUR $500 billion figure right? lol

 

[elektra]

When the price of electric power triples just wait for the environmental wackos to blame it on "corporate greed."

Power Plant Closures

Impact of EPA’s Regulatory Assault on Power Plants: New Regulations to Take More than 72 GW of Electricity Generation Offline and the Plant Closing Announcements Keep Coming…​

''Over 94 percent these retirements will come from generating units at coal-fired power plants, shuttering over one-fifth of the U.S.’s coal-fired generating capacity''

Horrible? lol

WHEN have conservatives EVER been on the correct side pf history on ANY POLICY?

It must be miserable to be a conservative and time after time find your policies and ideals are wrong..

Conservatives, fought clean air, clean water and workplace rules.

Conservatives fought banking regulations and caused the great depression, the great recession and every single banking crises we've ever had. Every-time the conservatives talk about smaller government they've come into power and increased the size and cost of government..

Conservatives simply cannot learn from history.

Day in the Life of a Joe Six-Pack Republican


Joe gets up at 6:00 AM to prepare his morning coffee. He fills his pot full of good clean drinking water because some liberal fought for minimum water quality standards. He takes his daily medication with his first swallow of coffee. His medications are safe to take because some liberal fought to insure their safety and work as advertised.

All but $10.00 of his medications are paid for by his employers medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance, now Joe gets it too. He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs this day. Joe’s bacon is safe to eat because some liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry.

Joe takes his morning shower reaching for his shampoo; His bottle is properly labeled with every ingredient and the amount of its contents because some liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained. Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some tree hugging liberal fought for laws to stop industries from polluting our air. He walks to the subway station for his government subsidized ride to work; it saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees. You see, some liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.

Joe begins his work day; he has a good job with excellent pay, medicals benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joe's employer pays these standards because Joe's employer doesn't want his employees to call the union. If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed he'll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some liberal didn't think he should lose his home because of his temporary misfortune.

It's noon time, Joe needs to make a Bank Deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe’s deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because some liberal wanted to protect Joe’s money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the depression.

Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae underwritten Mortgage and his below market federal student loan because some stupid liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his life-time.

Joe is home from work, he plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive to dad's; his car is among the safest in the world because some liberal fought for car safety standards. He arrives at his boyhood home. He was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers Home Administration because bankers didn't want to make rural loans. The house didn't have electric until some big government liberal stuck his nose where it didn't belong and demanded rural electrification. (Those rural Republicans would still be sitting in the dark.)
He is happy to see his dad who is now retired. His dad lives on Social Security and his union pension because some liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn't have to.


After his visit with dad he gets back in his car for the ride home.

He turns on a radio talk show. The host keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. (He doesn't tell Joe that his beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day)

Joe agrees. "We don't need those big government liberals ruining our lives; after all, I'm a self made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have."

Day of a Republican

Leave it to a lib who has no clue of the subject matter of the thread to resort to politicizing.
It's your go to excuse.
Your post is a complete and utter obfuscation.

ONE policy conservatives have EVER been on the correct side of history on in the US?

Has clean air and water laws ruined US yet? How about unions? SS? Medicare? Min wage? Auto safety laws? ALL were supposed to signal the downfall of US, according to conservatives!


Lowest EFFECTIVE SUSTAINED tax 'burden' on the 'job creators' for 80 years helped US at all?

You are so right, our economy is t

You support Solar, why, you don't even know the cost.

I say over 500 billion, one project cost 2.1 billion. Ivanpah.

There are over 700 projects just in the usa.

On top of that if we include residential there are over 500,000,000 million projects.

797 commercial projects, one which cost 2.1 billion.

your figure thus far, 0.

I think I am a bit closer to the truth.

The cost is so extreme nobody will admit the cost, all they can do is attack the messenger

China is the world leader in clean energy investment , with $54 billion in investments in renewables in 2013, well above total U.S. investment of $36.7 billion.

U.S. Lags Behind China in Renewables Investments Climate Central

I never mentioned China and Solar? Oh, you think that we only invested 36.7$ billion, my statement still stands, go read the original post and get back to me.

China does not give a hoot about Solar, China invests in Nuclear Power, over 20 reactors under construction as we speak, they also built the Heavy Industry to make the actual Reactor, a incredible feet.

Solar is pure stupidity that has failed the world, as Spain and Germany have reported.

500$ billion in 2 years with zero return.

Weird, YOU keep positing $500 billion spent in 2 years WITHOUT giving a credible source, almost like you were a Faux 'News' host or hate talk radio guy?

So you have zero idea of the cost, you have yet to offer any figure, of the total cost, what is the total cost of Solar, you are defending Solar, ranting how Solar is cheap and great, but that is a simple platitude, you have zero idea, the figure is not there, as you obviously have found out.

We are not allowed to know the costs, the Green/Renewable energy supporters do not know the costs.

Nothing but pure propane a and rubbish.

Again, you prove my point, you can not account nor grasp the costs.

Got it, only YOU know the costs, everyone else are idiots. Weird you should be able to source YOUR $500 billion figure right? lol

Read your own link, it's in there, I am not going to quote a link you provide but do not read, it's in your link. Go look, fool.

 

[thereisnospoon]

BriPat -

Because they are not 'perfectly good'.

They are like any out-dated infrastructure that needs to be replaced by more effective, more cutting edge and more sustainable technologies.

Really - do you argue this bitterly everytime a bridge, an airport or hospital equipment is upgraded?

Wrong. So long as replacing them costs more than keeping them in operation, they are perfectly good. The only reason they are being shut down is some ridiculous new regulations the EPA implemented for the express purpose of shutting them down. No one is buying that shit about them being obsolete or not cost effective. They were more than cost effective before the EPA imposed the new regulations.

It is the EPA which is cost INEFFECTIVE...
Liberal government policy has been well documented as anti business and ant consumer.

 

[elektra]

You support Solar, why, you don't even know the cost.

I say over 500 billion, one project cost 2.1 billion. Ivanpah.

There are over 700 projects just in the usa.

On top of that if we include residential there are over 500,000,000 million projects.

797 commercial projects, one which cost 2.1 billion.

your figure thus far, 0.

I think I am a bit closer to the truth.

The cost is so extreme nobody will admit the cost, all they can do is attack the messenger

China is the world leader in clean energy investment , with $54 billion in investments in renewables in 2013, well above total U.S. investment of $36.7 billion.

U.S. Lags Behind China in Renewables Investments Climate Central

I never mentioned China and Solar? Oh, you think that we only invested 36.7$ billion, my statement still stands, go read the original post and get back to me.

China does not give a hoot about Solar, China invests in Nuclear Power, over 20 reactors under construction as we speak, they also built the Heavy Industry to make the actual Reactor, a incredible feet.

Solar is pure stupidity that has failed the world, as Spain and Germany have reported.

500$ billion in 2 years with zero return.

Weird, YOU keep positing $500 billion spent in 2 years WITHOUT giving a credible source, almost like you were a Faux 'News' host or hate talk radio guy?

I will use source, which confirms my original post, if you had any sort of comprehension beyond your prejudices you would see the link you give states the figure to be, 572$ Billion.

You argue with me for days, come up with a link, that proves me right.

Your are an idiot.

So you WILL not provide a link because you are full of shit. Got it. YOUR posit was simple, $500 billion in 2 years, you then implied it was in the US. With ZERO in return

Fukkking retarded conservatives hold onto ideology about honesty or logic

Yes, someone spends $500 billion and gets ZERO in return, lol. NOT Solar that will give US 30+ years of energy. Or Wind, or hydro, etc..

My figure is in your link, my post was fact.

You are a simple fool, nothing more

 

[Dad2three]

Too funny. We need more nuclear power plants. The improvements in nuclear plant design are nothing short of amazing. Nuclear is 24/7 production and carbon-free. Take a look at molten salt reactors:

Molten Salt Reactors

Technology revolution in nuclear power could slash costs below coal - Telegraph

THORIUM MOLTEN-SALT The Best Reactor You 8217 ve Never Heard Of Raw Science

Sadly many people will refuse to discuss clean coal burning options that presently exist simply because the fuel is coal. The same is true of nuclear. If it's not solar, wind or wave it can't be considered. Tragic that the well-meaning are so close-minded.

.

Got some beach front property in Japan for sell , cheap?


Weird how the 'free market' can't provide for nuclear without the Gov't backing it up?

Funny but I have to ask how much government backing goes into wind and solar? Grants, tax rebates, price subsidies, etc.? You gave to admit that solar and wind only exist because of government support in one form or another.

.

Really? You mean like ANY 'NEW' energy? Why is oil or nukes getting support again?

Another obfuscation.
Fact is these new technologies are cost prohibitive because they have not been fully perfected yet. Investors are not going put up their capital in something they are not convinced will offer them a positive ROI. So the government steps in and offers to subsidize. The thing is, there are no guarantees and if it fails ( Solyndra) we the taxpayer are stuck holding the bag.
Here's the deal....When these alternative energy sources can be made readily available, mass produced/distributed, are just or more efficient than present technology and are comparable in cost to the consumer, you may have your precious new stuff. Until then....You'll just have to wait out the process..

Solyndra MORE conservative nonsense!

Solyndra=1% of DOE energy money


Reuters: Venture Capitalists Point To Solyndra As One Of The Top 10 Companies "Ripest" To Go Public. Reuters reported in August 2009:
Investors eye top startups as IPO market awakens - Aug. 19 2009


Market Conditions Shifted Significantly from 2009 to 2011


"advantages that were more important in 2009 when it received a $535 million U.S. loan guarantee to build a factory" than they are now, noting that the price of the silicon-based panels with which Solyndra was competing "has fallen 46 percent since then."
Obama s Solar Bets May Avoid Solyndra s Fate With Low Costs - Bloomberg


A 2011 study by the consulting firm Management Information Services, Inc. (MISI) estimated the total historical federal subsidies for various energy sources over the years 1950–2010. The study found that oil, natural gas, and coal received $369 billion, $121 billion, and $104 billion (2010 dollars), respectively, or 70% of total energy subsidies over that period.


The MISI report found that non-hydro renewable energy (primarily wind and solar) benefited from $74 billion in federal subsidies, or 9% of the total, largely in the form of tax policy and direct federal expenditures on research and development (R&D). Nuclear power benefited from $73 billion in federal subsidies, 9% of the total, largely in the form of R&D, while hydro power received $90 billion in federal subsidies, 12% of the total.

In the United States, the federal government has paid US$74 billion for energy subsidies to support R&D for nuclear power ($50 billion) and fossil fuels ($24 billion) from 1973 to 2003. During this same timeframe, renewable energy technologies and energy efficiency received a total of US$26 billion. It has been suggested that a subsidy shift would help to level the playing field and support growing energy sectors, namely solar power, wind power, and biofuels

Energy subsidies - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


GET OFF RIGHT WING TALKING POINTS AND GROW A FUKKING BRAIN

Energy sources, from coal to oil and gas to nuclear, have all been subsidized over the last 400 years in the U.S. and elsewhere. By most metrics, renewable energy sources have received far less in subsidies in their early years than any of these other energy sources.


Pfund said, “All new energy industries -- timber, coal, oil and gas, nuclear -- have received substantial government support at a pivotal time in their early growth, creating millions of jobs and significant economic growth," adding, “Subsidies for these ‘traditional’ energy sources were many, many times what we are spending today on renewables."
Subsidies for Oil Gas and Nuclear vs. Renewables Greentech Media

 

[Dad2three]

BriPat -

Because they are not 'perfectly good'.

They are like any out-dated infrastructure that needs to be replaced by more effective, more cutting edge and more sustainable technologies.

Really - do you argue this bitterly everytime a bridge, an airport or hospital equipment is upgraded?

Wrong. So long as replacing them costs more than keeping them in operation, they are perfectly good. The only reason they are being shut down is some ridiculous new regulations the EPA implemented for the express purpose of shutting them down. No one is buying that shit about them being obsolete or not cost effective. They were more than cost effective before the EPA imposed the new regulations.

It is the EPA which is cost INEFFECTIVE...
Liberal government policy has been well documented as anti business and ant consumer.

Posit something without proof? Oh right, a conservative who 'believes' stuff NOT based in reality

ONE policy conservatives have EVER been on the correct side of history in the US? lol

 

[thereisnospoon]

You support Solar, why, you don't even know the cost.

I say over 500 billion, one project cost 2.1 billion. Ivanpah.

There are over 700 projects just in the usa.

On top of that if we include residential there are over 500,000,000 million projects.

797 commercial projects, one which cost 2.1 billion.

your figure thus far, 0.

I think I am a bit closer to the truth.

The cost is so extreme nobody will admit the cost, all they can do is attack the messenger

China is the world leader in clean energy investment , with $54 billion in investments in renewables in 2013, well above total U.S. investment of $36.7 billion.

U.S. Lags Behind China in Renewables Investments Climate Central

I never mentioned China and Solar? Oh, you think that we only invested 36.7$ billion, my statement still stands, go read the original post and get back to me.

China does not give a hoot about Solar, China invests in Nuclear Power, over 20 reactors under construction as we speak, they also built the Heavy Industry to make the actual Reactor, a incredible feet.

Solar is pure stupidity that has failed the world, as Spain and Germany have reported.

500$ billion in 2 years with zero return.

Weird, YOU keep positing $500 billion spent in 2 years WITHOUT giving a credible source, almost like you were a Faux 'News' host or hate talk radio guy?

So you have zero idea of the cost, you have yet to offer any figure, of the total cost, what is the total cost of Solar, you are defending Solar, ranting how Solar is cheap and great, but that is a simple platitude, you have zero idea, the figure is not there, as you obviously have found out.

We are not allowed to know the costs, the Green/Renewable energy supporters do not know the costs.

Nothing but pure propane a and rubbish.

Again, you prove my point, you can not account nor grasp the costs.

Got it, only YOU know the costs, everyone else are idiots. Weird you should be able to source YOUR $500 billion figure right? lol

And you enviro nazis do not care what the costs are. In fact, the moment something new comes along, your minions are right there protesting.
You people may believe you are protesters, but you're not. You are a bunch of annoying whiners.
You people bitch and moan about everything.
Here's an example The Southern Environmental Law Center. Sounds real nice, right. They care....Or do they?
If one looks at their mission statement, there is nothing NOTHING about protecting the environment as a priority. In fact this organization prides itself on one thing, Stopping projects IT deems to be an enemy of the environment. These people have nothing better to do with themselves than run around filing lawsuits.
The interesting part is while they win a lot of battles, they end up losing most of the wars. The end result is projects are delayed costing taxpayers and investors billions. And do these people care? Hell no. They just get to add another stopped pr delayed project to their website.
The SELC is pretty much a bunch of wealthy attorneys whose job it is to make themselves even more wealthy off the misery of others.

 

[Dad2three]

China is the world leader in clean energy investment , with $54 billion in investments in renewables in 2013, well above total U.S. investment of $36.7 billion.

U.S. Lags Behind China in Renewables Investments Climate Central

I never mentioned China and Solar? Oh, you think that we only invested 36.7$ billion, my statement still stands, go read the original post and get back to me.

China does not give a hoot about Solar, China invests in Nuclear Power, over 20 reactors under construction as we speak, they also built the Heavy Industry to make the actual Reactor, a incredible feet.

Solar is pure stupidity that has failed the world, as Spain and Germany have reported.

500$ billion in 2 years with zero return.

Weird, YOU keep positing $500 billion spent in 2 years WITHOUT giving a credible source, almost like you were a Faux 'News' host or hate talk radio guy?

I will use source, which confirms my original post, if you had any sort of comprehension beyond your prejudices you would see the link you give states the figure to be, 572$ Billion.

You argue with me for days, come up with a link, that proves me right.

Your are an idiot.

So you WILL not provide a link because you are full of shit. Got it. YOUR posit was simple, $500 billion in 2 years, you then implied it was in the US. With ZERO in return

Fukkking retarded conservatives hold onto ideology about honesty or logic

Yes, someone spends $500 billion and gets ZERO in return, lol. NOT Solar that will give US 30+ years of energy. Or Wind, or hydro, etc..

My figure is in your link, my post was fact.

You are a simple fool, nothing more

China is the world leader in clean energy investment , with $54 billion in investments in renewables in 2013, well above total U.S. investment of $36.7 billion.

U.S. Lags Behind China in Renewables Investments Climate Central

I never mentioned China and Solar? Oh, you think that we only invested 36.7$ billion, my statement still stands, go read the original post and get back to me.

China does not give a hoot about Solar, China invests in Nuclear Power, over 20 reactors under construction as we speak, they also built the Heavy Industry to make the actual Reactor, a incredible feet.

Solar is pure stupidity that has failed the world, as Spain and Germany have reported.

500$ billion in 2 years with zero return.

Weird, YOU keep positing $500 billion spent in 2 years WITHOUT giving a credible source, almost like you were a Faux 'News' host or hate talk radio guy?

I will use source, which confirms my original post, if you had any sort of comprehension beyond your prejudices you would see the link you give states the figure to be, 572$ Billion.

You argue with me for days, come up with a link, that proves me right.

Your are an idiot.

So you WILL not provide a link because you are full of shit. Got it. YOUR posit was simple, $500 billion in 2 years, you then implied it was in the US. With ZERO in return

Fukkking retarded conservatives hold onto ideology about honesty or logic

Yes, someone spends $500 billion and gets ZERO in return, lol. NOT Solar that will give US 30+ years of energy. Or Wind, or hydro, etc..

My figure is in your link, my post was fact.

You are a simple fool, nothing more

Got it, so your implication of $500 billion spent in the US was bullshit you made up AND the 'zero' is actually long lasting and cheap energy!!!

Renewable energy VC funding to triple

A new report, released today by Frost & Sullivan, has predicted that venture capital (VC) funding to renewable energy technologies is set to triple by 2020. The analysts report that this is due to, "environmental support for lower carbon footprint, and innovation in renewable energy technologies."


Renewable energy VC funding to triple pv-magazine

 

[Dad2three]

China is the world leader in clean energy investment , with $54 billion in investments in renewables in 2013, well above total U.S. investment of $36.7 billion.

U.S. Lags Behind China in Renewables Investments Climate Central

I never mentioned China and Solar? Oh, you think that we only invested 36.7$ billion, my statement still stands, go read the original post and get back to me.

China does not give a hoot about Solar, China invests in Nuclear Power, over 20 reactors under construction as we speak, they also built the Heavy Industry to make the actual Reactor, a incredible feet.

Solar is pure stupidity that has failed the world, as Spain and Germany have reported.

500$ billion in 2 years with zero return.

Weird, YOU keep positing $500 billion spent in 2 years WITHOUT giving a credible source, almost like you were a Faux 'News' host or hate talk radio guy?

So you have zero idea of the cost, you have yet to offer any figure, of the total cost, what is the total cost of Solar, you are defending Solar, ranting how Solar is cheap and great, but that is a simple platitude, you have zero idea, the figure is not there, as you obviously have found out.

We are not allowed to know the costs, the Green/Renewable energy supporters do not know the costs.

Nothing but pure propane a and rubbish.

Again, you prove my point, you can not account nor grasp the costs.

Got it, only YOU know the costs, everyone else are idiots. Weird you should be able to source YOUR $500 billion figure right? lol

And you enviro nazis do not care what the costs are. In fact, the moment something new comes along, your minions are right there protesting.
You people may believe you are protesters, but you're not. You are a bunch of annoying whiners.
You people bitch and moan about everything.
Here's an example The Southern Environmental Law Center. Sounds real nice, right. They care....Or do they?
If one looks at their mission statement, there is nothing NOTHING about protecting the environment as a priority. In fact this organization prides itself on one thing, Stopping projects IT deems to be an enemy of the environment. These people have nothing better to do with themselves than run around filing lawsuits.
The interesting part is while they win a lot of battles, they end up losing most of the wars. The end result is projects are delayed costing taxpayers and investors billions. And do these people care? Hell no. They just get to add another stopped pr delayed project to their website.
The SELC is pretty much a bunch of wealthy attorneys whose job it is to make themselves even more wealthy off the misery of others.

Thanks, so ANOTHER conservative who can't provide ONE policy conservatives have EVER been on the correct side of history on in the US

Everything else you posit is just noise

Right wingers have myths, distortions and lies in their toolbox, nothing else!

 

[thereisnospoon]

Close all those planet-killing coal plants.

YOU stop using electricity FIRST.....Then you can talk.