Power Plant Closures

[OnePercenter]

Our utility has jacked up our residential rates by 40% in the six years Obama has been in power and they're talking another 17% increase next year. I'm gradually going solar. I have no choice. Of course the 1200 watt power supply here in my gamer, and all the 200 watt bulbs I use everywhere, probably won't get me many alligator tears from the eco crowd. ; - )

Not that we don't believe you, but who is your power provider?

 

[OnePercenter]

Too funny. We need more nuclear power plants. The improvements in nuclear plant design are nothing short of amazing. Nuclear is 24/7 production and carbon-free. Take a look at molten salt reactors:

Molten Salt Reactors

Technology revolution in nuclear power could slash costs below coal - Telegraph

THORIUM MOLTEN-SALT The Best Reactor You 8217 ve Never Heard Of Raw Science

Sadly many people will refuse to discuss clean coal burning options that presently exist simply because the fuel is coal. The same is true of nuclear. If it's not solar, wind or wave it can't be considered. Tragic that the well-meaning are so close-minded.

Where do you put the waste?

 

[Dad2three]

When the price of electric power triples just wait for the environmental wackos to blame it on "corporate greed."

Power Plant Closures

Impact of EPA’s Regulatory Assault on Power Plants: New Regulations to Take More than 72 GW of Electricity Generation Offline and the Plant Closing Announcements Keep Coming…​

''Over 94 percent these retirements will come from generating units at coal-fired power plants, shuttering over one-fifth of the U.S.’s coal-fired generating capacity''

Horrible? lol

WHEN have conservatives EVER been on the correct side pf history on ANY POLICY?

It must be miserable to be a conservative and time after time find your policies and ideals are wrong..

Conservatives, fought clean air, clean water and workplace rules.

Conservatives fought banking regulations and caused the great depression, the great recession and every single banking crises we've ever had. Every-time the conservatives talk about smaller government they've come into power and increased the size and cost of government..

Conservatives simply cannot learn from history.

Day in the Life of a Joe Six-Pack Republican


Joe gets up at 6:00 AM to prepare his morning coffee. He fills his pot full of good clean drinking water because some liberal fought for minimum water quality standards. He takes his daily medication with his first swallow of coffee. His medications are safe to take because some liberal fought to insure their safety and work as advertised.

All but $10.00 of his medications are paid for by his employers medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance, now Joe gets it too. He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs this day. Joe’s bacon is safe to eat because some liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry.

Joe takes his morning shower reaching for his shampoo; His bottle is properly labeled with every ingredient and the amount of its contents because some liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained. Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some tree hugging liberal fought for laws to stop industries from polluting our air. He walks to the subway station for his government subsidized ride to work; it saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees. You see, some liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.

Joe begins his work day; he has a good job with excellent pay, medicals benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joe's employer pays these standards because Joe's employer doesn't want his employees to call the union. If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed he'll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some liberal didn't think he should lose his home because of his temporary misfortune.

It's noon time, Joe needs to make a Bank Deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe’s deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because some liberal wanted to protect Joe’s money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the depression.

Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae underwritten Mortgage and his below market federal student loan because some stupid liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his life-time.

Joe is home from work, he plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive to dad's; his car is among the safest in the world because some liberal fought for car safety standards. He arrives at his boyhood home. He was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers Home Administration because bankers didn't want to make rural loans. The house didn't have electric until some big government liberal stuck his nose where it didn't belong and demanded rural electrification. (Those rural Republicans would still be sitting in the dark.)
He is happy to see his dad who is now retired. His dad lives on Social Security and his union pension because some liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn't have to.


After his visit with dad he gets back in his car for the ride home.

He turns on a radio talk show. The host keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. (He doesn't tell Joe that his beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day)

Joe agrees. "We don't need those big government liberals ruining our lives; after all, I'm a self made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have."

Day of a Republican

Leave it to a lib who has no clue of the subject matter of the thread to resort to politicizing.
It's your go to excuse.
Your post is a complete and utter obfuscation.

ONE policy conservatives have EVER been on the correct side of history on in the US?

Has clean air and water laws ruined US yet? How about unions? SS? Medicare? Min wage? Auto safety laws? ALL were supposed to signal the downfall of US, according to conservatives!


Lowest EFFECTIVE SUSTAINED tax 'burden' on the 'job creators' for 80 years helped US at all?

You are so right, our economy is t

China is the world leader in clean energy investment , with $54 billion in investments in renewables in 2013, well above total U.S. investment of $36.7 billion.

U.S. Lags Behind China in Renewables Investments Climate Central

I never mentioned China and Solar? Oh, you think that we only invested 36.7$ billion, my statement still stands, go read the original post and get back to me.

China does not give a hoot about Solar, China invests in Nuclear Power, over 20 reactors under construction as we speak, they also built the Heavy Industry to make the actual Reactor, a incredible feet.

Solar is pure stupidity that has failed the world, as Spain and Germany have reported.

500$ billion in 2 years with zero return.

Weird, YOU keep positing $500 billion spent in 2 years WITHOUT giving a credible source, almost like you were a Faux 'News' host or hate talk radio guy?

So you have zero idea of the cost, you have yet to offer any figure, of the total cost, what is the total cost of Solar, you are defending Solar, ranting how Solar is cheap and great, but that is a simple platitude, you have zero idea, the figure is not there, as you obviously have found out.

We are not allowed to know the costs, the Green/Renewable energy supporters do not know the costs.

Nothing but pure propane a and rubbish.

Again, you prove my point, you can not account nor grasp the costs.

Got it, only YOU know the costs, everyone else are idiots. Weird you should be able to source YOUR $500 billion figure right? lol

Read your own link, it's in there, I am not going to quote a link you provide but do not read, it's in your link. Go look, fool.

Got it, the US didn't spend $500 billion and get 'zero' in return, even if one plant cost $2.1 billion lol

 

[thereisnospoon]

When the price of electric power triples just wait for the environmental wackos to blame it on "corporate greed."

Power Plant Closures

Impact of EPA’s Regulatory Assault on Power Plants: New Regulations to Take More than 72 GW of Electricity Generation Offline and the Plant Closing Announcements Keep Coming…​

There's an easy escape where the power companies could make more money by complying with regulations. Install either geothermal or solar thermal hybrids onto their carbon plants to reduce their yearly carbon footprint. They'll actually make a ton of money charging the same rates and using less fuel that has to be mined, refined, bought, burned and scrubbed.

Every day the sun is shining, it's sweet moolah..

In a perfect world you'd be spot on. Unfortunately that technology does not exist today. Nor will it for the foreseeable future
We should as a nation get on the ball and get this stuff developed.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Too funny. We need more nuclear power plants. The improvements in nuclear plant design are nothing short of amazing. Nuclear is 24/7 production and carbon-free. Take a look at molten salt reactors:

Molten Salt Reactors

Technology revolution in nuclear power could slash costs below coal - Telegraph

THORIUM MOLTEN-SALT The Best Reactor You 8217 ve Never Heard Of Raw Science

Sadly many people will refuse to discuss clean coal burning options that presently exist simply because the fuel is coal. The same is true of nuclear. If it's not solar, wind or wave it can't be considered. Tragic that the well-meaning are so close-minded.

Where do you put the waste?

Unfortunately there is always fallout from everything.
If we lived in a world where every "what if" or "but what about" question had to be answered , we'd never get anything done

 

[Saigon]

Spoon -

Ten years ago you might have been right about renewables, but the funny thing is that in dozens of other developed countries, the transition from coal to renewables has been relatively straightforward and not particularly controversial.

There are quite a few countries now that generate 20%+ of their electricity from renewables, and that is set to rise significantly as the newer tidal and solar-thermal stations come online.

The days in which you could dismiss something like solar as being ineffective or too expensive passed by several years ago.

 

[elektra]

When the price of electric power triples just wait for the environmental wackos to blame it on "corporate greed."

Power Plant Closures

Impact of EPA’s Regulatory Assault on Power Plants: New Regulations to Take More than 72 GW of Electricity Generation Offline and the Plant Closing Announcements Keep Coming…​

''Over 94 percent these retirements will come from generating units at coal-fired power plants, shuttering over one-fifth of the U.S.’s coal-fired generating capacity''

Horrible? lol

WHEN have conservatives EVER been on the correct side pf history on ANY POLICY?

It must be miserable to be a conservative and time after time find your policies and ideals are wrong..

Conservatives, fought clean air, clean water and workplace rules.

Conservatives fought banking regulations and caused the great depression, the great recession and every single banking crises we've ever had. Every-time the conservatives talk about smaller government they've come into power and increased the size and cost of government..

Conservatives simply cannot learn from history.

Day in the Life of a Joe Six-Pack Republican


Joe gets up at 6:00 AM to prepare his morning coffee. He fills his pot full of good clean drinking water because some liberal fought for minimum water quality standards. He takes his daily medication with his first swallow of coffee. His medications are safe to take because some liberal fought to insure their safety and work as advertised.

All but $10.00 of his medications are paid for by his employers medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance, now Joe gets it too. He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs this day. Joe’s bacon is safe to eat because some liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry.

Joe takes his morning shower reaching for his shampoo; His bottle is properly labeled with every ingredient and the amount of its contents because some liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained. Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some tree hugging liberal fought for laws to stop industries from polluting our air. He walks to the subway station for his government subsidized ride to work; it saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees. You see, some liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.

Joe begins his work day; he has a good job with excellent pay, medicals benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joe's employer pays these standards because Joe's employer doesn't want his employees to call the union. If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed he'll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some liberal didn't think he should lose his home because of his temporary misfortune.

It's noon time, Joe needs to make a Bank Deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe’s deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because some liberal wanted to protect Joe’s money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the depression.

Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae underwritten Mortgage and his below market federal student loan because some stupid liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his life-time.

Joe is home from work, he plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive to dad's; his car is among the safest in the world because some liberal fought for car safety standards. He arrives at his boyhood home. He was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers Home Administration because bankers didn't want to make rural loans. The house didn't have electric until some big government liberal stuck his nose where it didn't belong and demanded rural electrification. (Those rural Republicans would still be sitting in the dark.)
He is happy to see his dad who is now retired. His dad lives on Social Security and his union pension because some liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn't have to.


After his visit with dad he gets back in his car for the ride home.

He turns on a radio talk show. The host keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. (He doesn't tell Joe that his beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day)

Joe agrees. "We don't need those big government liberals ruining our lives; after all, I'm a self made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have."

Day of a Republican

Leave it to a lib who has no clue of the subject matter of the thread to resort to politicizing.
It's your go to excuse.
Your post is a complete and utter obfuscation.

ONE policy conservatives have EVER been on the correct side of history on in the US?

Has clean air and water laws ruined US yet? How about unions? SS? Medicare? Min wage? Auto safety laws? ALL were supposed to signal the downfall of US, according to conservatives!


Lowest EFFECTIVE SUSTAINED tax 'burden' on the 'job creators' for 80 years helped US at all?

You are so right, our economy is t

I never mentioned China and Solar? Oh, you think that we only invested 36.7$ billion, my statement still stands, go read the original post and get back to me.

China does not give a hoot about Solar, China invests in Nuclear Power, over 20 reactors under construction as we speak, they also built the Heavy Industry to make the actual Reactor, a incredible feet.

Solar is pure stupidity that has failed the world, as Spain and Germany have reported.

500$ billion in 2 years with zero return.

Weird, YOU keep positing $500 billion spent in 2 years WITHOUT giving a credible source, almost like you were a Faux 'News' host or hate talk radio guy?

So you have zero idea of the cost, you have yet to offer any figure, of the total cost, what is the total cost of Solar, you are defending Solar, ranting how Solar is cheap and great, but that is a simple platitude, you have zero idea, the figure is not there, as you obviously have found out.

We are not allowed to know the costs, the Green/Renewable energy supporters do not know the costs.

Nothing but pure propane a and rubbish.

Again, you prove my point, you can not account nor grasp the costs.

Got it, only YOU know the costs, everyone else are idiots. Weird you should be able to source YOUR $500 billion figure right? lol

Read your own link, it's in there, I am not going to quote a link you provide but do not read, it's in your link. Go look, fool.

Got it, the US didn't spend $500 billion and get 'zero' in return, even if one plant cost $2.1 billion lol

Yea, whatever you say, over 600 billion invested, and now we have all the power we can use, we no longer import power from canada, our electric bills are no longer at record highs.

But there is still that little fact, 500 $ billion was just spent in the last two years, and we are to we must build solar until the year 2056, so if we spend just another 100 trillion dollars, we will be fine.

Boy it is just terrible being right.

 

[Dad2three]

China is the world leader in clean energy investment , with $54 billion in investments in renewables in 2013, well above total U.S. investment of $36.7 billion.

U.S. Lags Behind China in Renewables Investments Climate Central

I never mentioned China and Solar? Oh, you think that we only invested 36.7$ billion, my statement still stands, go read the original post and get back to me.

China does not give a hoot about Solar, China invests in Nuclear Power, over 20 reactors under construction as we speak, they also built the Heavy Industry to make the actual Reactor, a incredible feet.

Solar is pure stupidity that has failed the world, as Spain and Germany have reported.

500$ billion in 2 years with zero return.

Weird, YOU keep positing $500 billion spent in 2 years WITHOUT giving a credible source, almost like you were a Faux 'News' host or hate talk radio guy?

I will use source, which confirms my original post, if you had any sort of comprehension beyond your prejudices you would see the link you give states the figure to be, 572$ Billion.

You argue with me for days, come up with a link, that proves me right.

Your are an idiot.

So you WILL not provide a link because you are full of shit. Got it. YOUR posit was simple, $500 billion in 2 years, you then implied it was in the US. With ZERO in return

Fukkking retarded conservatives hold onto ideology about honesty or logic

Yes, someone spends $500 billion and gets ZERO in return, lol. NOT Solar that will give US 30+ years of energy. Or Wind, or hydro, etc..

My figure is in your link, my post was fact.

You are a simple fool, nothing more

SO AGAIN, No the US NEVER spent $500 billion in 2 years with zero to show for it

 

[elektra]

Spoon -

Ten years ago you might have been right about renewables, but the funny thing is that in dozens of other developed countries, the transition from coal to renewables has been relatively straightforward and not particularly controversial.

There are quite a few countries now that generate 20%+ of their electricity from renewables, and that is set to rise significantly as the newer tidal and solar-thermal stations come online.

The days in which you could dismiss something like solar as being ineffective or too expensive passed by several years ago.

Except for in Spain where the government with the support of the universities gave declared solar a failure and reversed there policy.

 

[elektra]

I never mentioned China and Solar? Oh, you think that we only invested 36.7$ billion, my statement still stands, go read the original post and get back to me.

China does not give a hoot about Solar, China invests in Nuclear Power, over 20 reactors under construction as we speak, they also built the Heavy Industry to make the actual Reactor, a incredible feet.

Solar is pure stupidity that has failed the world, as Spain and Germany have reported.

500$ billion in 2 years with zero return.

Weird, YOU keep positing $500 billion spent in 2 years WITHOUT giving a credible source, almost like you were a Faux 'News' host or hate talk radio guy?

I will use source, which confirms my original post, if you had any sort of comprehension beyond your prejudices you would see the link you give states the figure to be, 572$ Billion.

You argue with me for days, come up with a link, that proves me right.

Your are an idiot.

So you WILL not provide a link because you are full of shit. Got it. YOUR posit was simple, $500 billion in 2 years, you then implied it was in the US. With ZERO in return

Fukkking retarded conservatives hold onto ideology about honesty or logic

Yes, someone spends $500 billion and gets ZERO in return, lol. NOT Solar that will give US 30+ years of energy. Or Wind, or hydro, etc..

My figure is in your link, my post was fact.

You are a simple fool, nothing more

SO AGAIN, No the US NEVER spent $500 billion in 2 years with zero to show for it

After spending 500 billion. Why do we need to spend trillions more forever into the future.

Face it, SAR is a world wide failure.

China can attest to that fact, 20 USA designed and constructed nuclear power plants are the proof.

 

[Saigon]

Elektra -

In 2008 the Spanish government committed to achieving a target of 12 percent of primary energy from renewable energy by 2010 and by 2020 expects the installed solar generating capacity of 10,000 megawatts (MW).[2] Spain is the fourth largest manufacturer in the world of solar power technology and exports 80 percent of this output to Germany.[3] Spain added a record 2.6 GW of solar power in 2008,[4] increasing capacity to 3.5 GW.[5] Total solar power in Spain was 3.859 GW by the end of 2010 and solar energy produced 6.9 terawatt-hours (TW·h), covering 2.7% of the electricity demand in 2010. By the end of 2012, 4.516 GW had been installed, and that year 8.169 TWh of electricity was produced.

Solar power in Spain - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Spain's problem with solar has more to do with the recession and the subsequent spike in unemployment and drop in tax revenues that it does anything to do with the technology.

Through a ministerial ruling in March 2004, the Spanish government removed economic barriers to the connection of renewable energy technologies to the electricity grid. The Royal Decree 436/2004 equalized conditions for large-scale solar thermal and photovoltaic plants and guaranteed feed-in tariffs.[7] In the wake of the 2008 financial crisis, the Spanish government drastically cut its subsidies for solar power and capped future increases in capacity at 500 MW per year, with effects upon the industry worldwide

Although the cut in fee-in tariffs jammed a spanner in the wheels of solar, Spain is still one of the big players in the industry, and installed capacity is still rising steadily, the last I heard.

These things are always going to happens in recessions, just as they happen to new coal and nuclear develpments. Finland has a mothballed reactor that has never opened for similar reasons - did you post about that?

 

[Dad2three]

Spoon -

Ten years ago you might have been right about renewables, but the funny thing is that in dozens of other developed countries, the transition from coal to renewables has been relatively straightforward and not particularly controversial.

There are quite a few countries now that generate 20%+ of their electricity from renewables, and that is set to rise significantly as the newer tidal and solar-thermal stations come online.

The days in which you could dismiss something like solar as being ineffective or too expensive passed by several years ago.

Except for in Spain where the government with the support of the universities gave declared solar a failure and reversed there policy.

Fukkking liar

THE FACTS

As highlighted in previous analyses, the underlying problem that legislators in Spain are trying to address is the rapid growth of the electricity system deficit, which now stands at €26 billion.

This deficit has been created over the last fifteen years as the costs of generating electricity have risen faster than what utilities can lawfully recover from rates. The root cause of this is ultimately that Spain limits the amount by which electricity prices can increase.

While most commentators have attributed the deficit to the growth of renewable energy, the origins of the tariff deficit pre-date the rise of renewable energy in Spain.

Second, despite countless articles and commentaries to the contrary, the problems in Spain’s electricity system are not caused solely by its feed-in tariff (FIT) policy.

To understand why, an analogy is instructive: to attribute Spain’s electricity system deficit to its FIT is similar to blaming an airline’s bankruptcy on its latest purchase of airplanes. A firm’s bankruptcy is always and everywhere driven by the failure to keep revenues ahead of costs. Buying planes is fine, as long as you have customers to fill them.

In Spain’s case, it is not the investment in wind turbines and solar power that represent the root of the problem: like many of its European partners, Spain encouraged private investment in wind and solar power partly to meet binding EU climate and energy targets, partly to improve its energy security, and partly to encourage the development of new economic sectors.

Moreover, numerous studies from major research institutes and think tanks around the world continue to find that FITs are the most cost-effective means of accelerating investment in renewable energy.

The problem is therefore not with wind and solar per se, nor with the policy that encouraged investment in them (though Spain’s FIT policy had a number of important design flaws): it is that the government, through regulations dating back decades, prevented utilities from recovering the true costs of the electricity system through rates.

In other words, Spain tried to have it both ways: it set out to transform its electricity system, but failed to establish a credible mechanism to pay for it.

The Lesson in Renewable Energy Development from Spain

 

[Saigon]

Why do we need to spend trillions more forever into the future.
.

Because ALL foms of electricity production, be it nuclear, coal, hydro or solar - cost money to build and install.

 

[Dad2three]

Weird, YOU keep positing $500 billion spent in 2 years WITHOUT giving a credible source, almost like you were a Faux 'News' host or hate talk radio guy?

I will use source, which confirms my original post, if you had any sort of comprehension beyond your prejudices you would see the link you give states the figure to be, 572$ Billion.

You argue with me for days, come up with a link, that proves me right.

Your are an idiot.

So you WILL not provide a link because you are full of shit. Got it. YOUR posit was simple, $500 billion in 2 years, you then implied it was in the US. With ZERO in return

Fukkking retarded conservatives hold onto ideology about honesty or logic

Yes, someone spends $500 billion and gets ZERO in return, lol. NOT Solar that will give US 30+ years of energy. Or Wind, or hydro, etc..

My figure is in your link, my post was fact.

You are a simple fool, nothing more

SO AGAIN, No the US NEVER spent $500 billion in 2 years with zero to show for it

After spending 500 billion. Why do we need to spend trillions more forever into the future.

Face it, SAR is a world wide failure.

China can attest to that fact, 20 USA designed and constructed nuclear power plants are the proof.

Yes, the US never spent trillions on oil, gas or unsafe, unreliable nukes!

 

[Tom Sweetnam]

Our utility has jacked up our residential rates by 40% in the six years Obama has been in power and they're talking another 17% increase next year. I'm gradually going solar. I have no choice. Of course the 1200 watt power supply here in my gamer, and all the 200 watt bulbs I use everywhere, probably won't get me many alligator tears from the eco crowd. ; - )

Not that we don't believe you, but who is your power provider?

Whose "we"? You keep referring to yourself with collective pronouns, especially in the third person, and people are going to think you're schizophrenic...or that you're a queen...or something.

OK, truth be known, our rates have been so high because of a longstanding and very expensive legal battle between Xcel Energy and hedge fund billionaire, Louis Bacon. Bacon bought Malcolm Forbes' old family ranch down here near where I live, in the Sangre de Cristo Range of the Rocky Mountains. It consists of more than 100,000 acres of magnificent wilderness. He then bought another 90,000 acres adjacent, for a total of nearly 200,000 acres.

Meanwhile, Xcel Energy, power provider for the San Luis Valley, decided they wanted to build a new power grid across Bacon's property. That's when the legal battle started, and that's when we all started paying for it. I was on Bacon's side. Anyway, when the dust settled, Xcel gave up their suit, and Bacon donated 88,000 acres of land to a permanent environmental trust. The story had a happy ending. We're all still paying through the wazoo for power though.

 

[OnePercenter]

Unfortunately there is always fallout from everything.
If we lived in a world where every "what if" or "but what about" question had to be answered , we'd never get anything done

Nuclear waste is extreme 'fall out' where you have to ask 'what if' and but what about.'

 

[elektra]

Why do we need to spend trillions more forever into the future.
.

Because ALL foms of electricity production, be it nuclear, coal, hydro or solar - cost money to build and install.

Cherry picking? I am happy to see you have no technical nor economic arguments to refute my facts.

Trillions of dollars must be taken from the backs of Americans.

I must work for rich corporations who sell a product under government protected monopolies.

This is not about providing electricity to Americans, the leftist simply are out to destroy the USA.

We will be over 100's in trillions in debt with zero power to show for it.

You think your electric and food bills are high today, wait until tomorrow.

Americans must suffer and be destroyed, it is liberals desire.

They simply hate America, the current energy policy is just one more nail in our coffin.

 

[elektra]

I will use source, which confirms my original post, if you had any sort of comprehension beyond your prejudices you would see the link you give states the figure to be, 572$ Billion.

You argue with me for days, come up with a link, that proves me right.

Your are an idiot.

So you WILL not provide a link because you are full of shit. Got it. YOUR posit was simple, $500 billion in 2 years, you then implied it was in the US. With ZERO in return

Fukkking retarded conservatives hold onto ideology about honesty or logic

Yes, someone spends $500 billion and gets ZERO in return, lol. NOT Solar that will give US 30+ years of energy. Or Wind, or hydro, etc..

My figure is in your link, my post was fact.

You are a simple fool, nothing more

SO AGAIN, No the US NEVER spent $500 billion in 2 years with zero to show for it

After spending 500 billion. Why do we need to spend trillions more forever into the future.

Face it, SAR is a world wide failure.

China can attest to that fact, 20 USA designed and constructed nuclear power plants are the proof.

Yes, the US never spent trillions on oil, gas or unsafe, unreliable nukes!

Yep, for once you are right, our current Nuclear power industry did not cost us Trillions, our Nuclear reactors are safe and reliable.

Our Nuclear Plants run 500 days straight without needing to be shutdown.

That can not be said for Solar or Wind.

Great point dad2three, so glad I straightened you out.

 

[OnePercenter]

Whose "we"? You keep referring to yourself with collective pronouns, especially in the third person, and people are going to think you're schizophrenic...or that you're a queen...or something.

OK, truth be known, our rates have been so high because of a longstanding and very expensive legal battle between Xcel Energy and hedge fund billionaire, Louis Bacon. Bacon bought Malcolm Forbes' old family ranch down here near where I live, in the Sangre de Cristo Range of the Rocky Mountains. It consists of more than 100,000 acres of magnificent wilderness. He then bought another 90,000 acres adjacent, for a total of nearly 200,000 acres.

Meanwhile, Xcel Energy, power provider for the San Luis Valley, decided they wanted to build a new power grid across Bacon's property. That's when the legal battle started, and that's when we all started paying for it. I was on Bacon's side. Anyway, when the dust settled, Xcel gave up their suit, and Bacon donated 88,000 acres of land to a permanent environmental trust. The story had a happy ending. We're all still paying through the wazoo for power though.

'Truth be told'

 

[Tom Sweetnam]

'Truth be told'

You're really big on three or four word bon mots I've noticed. Is that a lot of effort for you?