Pre-existing conditions coverage

[Listening]

The 'left' wanted single payer are at least a public option. But America is infested with fear filled right wing ideologues who worship what they falsely believe is a free market, when in fact it is a 'FEE" market.

The individual mandate was created by the right wing Heritage Foundation to address the "free rider' problem.

Conservatives have ZERO solutions, just scorn for what they once praised....

The Left's solution to the problem of gov't screwing up the system is more gov't. Always. Explain how a gov't that couldn't get a website to run correctly is going to manage everyone health care. Yeah, they wont.

More blather about how conservatives invented the mandate. that is total bullshit and it gets debunked on here about once a day.
And more bullshit about how conservatives (or maybe its Republicans--to you they're all the same) don't have any solutions. Another meme debunked about twice a day.
So other than repeating falsehoods, do you have anything to say before admitting your ass has been handed to you again?

You have debunked NOTHING....

1994

Personal Freedom, Responsibility, And Mandates
by Robert E. Moffit

The national debate on universal health coverage is the latest incarnation of an ancient, enduring question of political philosophy: reconciling personal liberty and the authority of the State. It is the central problem of American political culture and is at the heart of nearly every major constitutional conflict in our history.

Americans-heirs of a classical liberal tradition, grounded in the political philosophy of John Locke and the spirit of Thomas Jefferson, in which personal freedom is paramount - harbor a deep distrust of governmental authority. We do not automatically assume that the individual is or should be subordinate to society, whether the issue is literary censorship or economic regulation.1 Therefore, any political limitation on personal freedom, regardless of prevailing wisdom, prejudices, or majority interests, must be based on a compelling argument.2

The Taxpayer Mandate
Policy analysts at The Heritage Foundation have wrestled incessantly with this problem, while developing a “consumer choice” plan for comprehensive health system reform, now embodied in a major legislative proposal.3 Only after extensive analysis of the peculiar distortions of the health insurance market did Heritage scholars reluctantly agree to an individual mandate.

Heritage = ???

Answer: Nothing.

Heritage is not the conservative movement.

But you knew that.

 

[The Rabbi]

That nonsense has been debunked over and over. One writer published an article in a Heritage publication and suddenly "conservatives" or "The GOP" invented the mandate.
Obama ran on the mandate in 08 and Hillary opposed it. Or vice versa, I can't remember. But not one GOP congressman voted for Obamacare or the mandate. How could it be their proposal and not one single person voted for it?

And here's the article debunking it. For the 10th time.
http://blog.heritage.org/2012/02/06/dont-blame-heritage-for-obamacare-mandate/

 

[Bfgrn]

That's nice. Now go fuck yourself.
Because gov't programs have high levels of incompetence and lack of accountability. You want your healthcare overseen by someone who can't be fired, go right ahead. The rest of us understand the free market is what accounts for innovation and advances in medicine.

Just a note for your own understanding. The federal government does not oversee medicare. They contract it out to civilian companies. All the government does is pay the bill. People see the medical providers they wish. Incompetence is a human issue, not a government issue. (I am not saying MC is good or bad, just what it is)

There isn't anything that the government does where they just "pay the bills". There are always all kinds of strings attached.

Check out medicare. They don't even pay enough to incent doctors to take on new patients. Now, that's health care for you.

The scum bags in this system are the doctors and hospitals. And without Medicare the would be no doctors.

Medicare pays for much of the durable equipment for many hospitals. It also funds the vast majority of residency training in the United States, including resident physician salaries and benefits, and gives subsidies to teaching hospitals in exchange for training resident physicians.

 

[Bfgrn]

That nonsense has been debunked over and over. One writer published an article in a Heritage publication and suddenly "conservatives" or "The GOP" invented the mandate.
Obama ran on the mandate in 08 and Hillary opposed it. Or vice versa, I can't remember. But not one GOP congressman voted for Obamacare or the mandate. How could it be their proposal and not one single person voted for it?

And here's the article debunking it. For the 10th time.
Don't Blame Heritage for ObamaCare Mandate | The Foundry: Conservative Policy News from The Heritage Foundation

 

[The Rabbi]

Just a note for your own understanding. The federal government does not oversee medicare. They contract it out to civilian companies. All the government does is pay the bill. People see the medical providers they wish. Incompetence is a human issue, not a government issue. (I am not saying MC is good or bad, just what it is)

There isn't anything that the government does where they just "pay the bills". There are always all kinds of strings attached.

Check out medicare. They don't even pay enough to incent doctors to take on new patients. Now, that's health care for you.

The scum bags in this system are the doctors and hospitals. And without Medicare the would be no doctors.

Medicare pays for much of the durable equipment for many hospitals. It also funds the vast majority of residency training in the United States, including resident physician salaries and benefits, and gives subsidies to teaching hospitals in exchange for training resident physicians.

Link?
Oh yeah there is none. Just more raving from another lib coming unhinged at the failure of Ocare.

 

[The Rabbi]

That nonsense has been debunked over and over. One writer published an article in a Heritage publication and suddenly "conservatives" or "The GOP" invented the mandate.
Obama ran on the mandate in 08 and Hillary opposed it. Or vice versa, I can't remember. But not one GOP congressman voted for Obamacare or the mandate. How could it be their proposal and not one single person voted for it?

And here's the article debunking it. For the 10th time.
Don't Blame Heritage for ObamaCare Mandate | The Foundry: Conservative Policy News from The Heritage Foundation

You've got nothing.

 

[Listening]

Just a note for your own understanding. The federal government does not oversee medicare. They contract it out to civilian companies. All the government does is pay the bill. People see the medical providers they wish. Incompetence is a human issue, not a government issue. (I am not saying MC is good or bad, just what it is)

There isn't anything that the government does where they just "pay the bills". There are always all kinds of strings attached.

Check out medicare. They don't even pay enough to incent doctors to take on new patients. Now, that's health care for you.

The scum bags in this system are the doctors and hospitals. And without Medicare the would be no doctors.

Medicare pays for much of the durable equipment for many hospitals. It also funds the vast majority of residency training in the United States, including resident physician salaries and benefits, and gives subsidies to teaching hospitals in exchange for training resident physicians.

Brilliant argument. Medicare started when.....?

There were no doctors before then ?

Please tell me you are drinking.

If we didn't have medicare, we would have a much better system.

Doctors are dropping medicare like flys. That makes them scumbags ? Because they want to feed their families and pay back the outrageous loans they are forced to take so you can legislate sub-par compensation on them.

 

[M14 Shooter]

There isn't anything that the government does where they just "pay the bills". There are always all kinds of strings attached.

Check out medicare. They don't even pay enough to incent doctors to take on new patients. Now, that's health care for you.

The scum bags in this system are the doctors and hospitals. And without Medicare the would be no doctors.

Medicare pays for much of the durable equipment for many hospitals. It also funds the vast majority of residency training in the United States, including resident physician salaries and benefits, and gives subsidies to teaching hospitals in exchange for training resident physicians.

Brilliant argument. Medicare started when.....?

There were no doctors before then ?

Please tell me you are drinking.

If we didn't have medicare, we would have a much better system.

Doctors are dropping medicare like flys. That makes them scumbags ? Because they want to feed their families and pay back the outrageous loans they are forced to take so you can legislate sub-par compensation on them.

The very best way to lower costs and improve quality is eliminate all 3rd party payers.
Pay for everything yourself. This will force competition among vendors.

 

[The Rabbi]

The scum bags in this system are the doctors and hospitals. And without Medicare the would be no doctors.

Medicare pays for much of the durable equipment for many hospitals. It also funds the vast majority of residency training in the United States, including resident physician salaries and benefits, and gives subsidies to teaching hospitals in exchange for training resident physicians.

Brilliant argument. Medicare started when.....?

There were no doctors before then ?

Please tell me you are drinking.

If we didn't have medicare, we would have a much better system.

Doctors are dropping medicare like flys. That makes them scumbags ? Because they want to feed their families and pay back the outrageous loans they are forced to take so you can legislate sub-par compensation on them.

The very best way to lower costs and improve quality is eliminate all 3rd party payers.
Pay for everything yourself. This will force competition among vendors.

Insurance should cover only those extraordinary expenses the average person cannot cover. Otherwise it isnt insurance but a maintenance contract. An expensive one too.

 

[Listening]

The scum bags in this system are the doctors and hospitals. And without Medicare the would be no doctors.

Medicare pays for much of the durable equipment for many hospitals. It also funds the vast majority of residency training in the United States, including resident physician salaries and benefits, and gives subsidies to teaching hospitals in exchange for training resident physicians.

Brilliant argument. Medicare started when.....?

There were no doctors before then ?

Please tell me you are drinking.

If we didn't have medicare, we would have a much better system.

Doctors are dropping medicare like flys. That makes them scumbags ? Because they want to feed their families and pay back the outrageous loans they are forced to take so you can legislate sub-par compensation on them.

The very best way to lower costs and improve quality is eliminate all 3rd party payers.
Pay for everything yourself. This will force competition among vendors.

Screw the morons who think we can't decide for ourselves.

Their "solution" has run up costs astronomically.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Brilliant argument. Medicare started when.....?

There were no doctors before then ?

Please tell me you are drinking.

If we didn't have medicare, we would have a much better system.

Doctors are dropping medicare like flys. That makes them scumbags ? Because they want to feed their families and pay back the outrageous loans they are forced to take so you can legislate sub-par compensation on them.

The very best way to lower costs and improve quality is eliminate all 3rd party payers.
Pay for everything yourself. This will force competition among vendors.

Screw the morons who think we can't decide for ourselves.

Their "solution" has run up costs astronomically.

Their "solution" is to take power from the people and give it to the state.

 

[dnsmith35]

There isn't anything that the government does where they just "pay the bills". There are always all kinds of strings attached.

Check out medicare. They don't even pay enough to incent doctors to take on new patients. Now, that's health care for you.

I am 78 years old and my primary coverage is Medicare, with a supplement to cover the co-pay. I have never had a medical provider turn down providing services to me. If there are medical providers who won't accept Medicare, shame on them.

Of course our medical providers in my area aren't so greedy as those in some other areas.

Ah... so you don't just want the federal government to force the young and healthy to subsidize the old and sick in general, you want them to be forced to subsidize YOU, personally.

The young don't have to subsidize me. I paid for my medicare over 45 years. You are doing the same.....unless you are a tax cheat.

 

[The Rabbi]

I am 78 years old and my primary coverage is Medicare, with a supplement to cover the co-pay. I have never had a medical provider turn down providing services to me. If there are medical providers who won't accept Medicare, shame on them.

Of course our medical providers in my area aren't so greedy as those in some other areas.

Ah... so you don't just want the federal government to force the young and healthy to subsidize the old and sick in general, you want them to be forced to subsidize YOU, personally.

The young don't have to subsidize me. I paid for my medicare over 45 years. You are doing the same.....unless you are a tax cheat.

Actually you paid for someone else's. He'd thank you but he's dead.

 

[dnsmith35]

Ah... so you don't just want the federal government to force the young and healthy to subsidize the old and sick in general, you want them to be forced to subsidize YOU, personally.

The young don't have to subsidize me. I paid for my medicare over 45 years. You are doing the same.....unless you are a tax cheat.

Actually you paid for someone else's. He'd thank you but he's dead.

There is no a private insurer in this country who would not jump at the chance to collect 3% of all wages to cover people over 65. The government made a profit, they just spent it along with all the other money they waste.

 

[Bfgrn]

A modern society owes all its members medical care and basic services...
It is part of a reasonable infrastructure....
But as a modern society we owe our people medical care...

We do? It is? According to what?
Why are the the young and healthy financially responsible for the health care costs of the old and sick?

No response... no surprise.

Because the 'young and healthy' will someday become the 'old and sick'. And youth is no guarantee of health.

 

[Bfgrn]

That nonsense has been debunked over and over. One writer published an article in a Heritage publication and suddenly "conservatives" or "The GOP" invented the mandate.
Obama ran on the mandate in 08 and Hillary opposed it. Or vice versa, I can't remember. But not one GOP congressman voted for Obamacare or the mandate. How could it be their proposal and not one single person voted for it?

And here's the article debunking it. For the 10th time.
Don't Blame Heritage for ObamaCare Mandate | The Foundry: Conservative Policy News from The Heritage Foundation

Honesty has never been a conservative tenet.

Stuart Butler is LYING to you...

How the Heritage Foundation, a Conservative Think Tank, Promoted the Individual Mandate - Forbes

Avik Roy, Forbes Staff

Stuart Butler’s lecture describes what the Heritage’s mandate would look like:

"We would include a mandate in our proposal–not a mandate on employers, but a mandate on heads of households–to obtain at least a basic package of health insurance for themselves and their families. That would have to include, by federal law, a catastrophic provision in the form of a stop loss for a family’s total health outlays. It would have to include all members of the family, and it might also include certain very specific services, such as preventive care, well baby visits, and other items."

Taranto points out that the Heritage mandate was less onerous than the Obamacare one, as it focused on coverage for catastrophic illness, rather than the comprehensive health plans that Obamacare requires. “On the other hand, Butler’s vague language—‘it might also include certain very specific services…and other items’—would seem to leave the door wide open for limitless expansion,” he writes. “Whatever the particular differences, the Heritage mandate was indistinguishable in principle from the ObamaCare one. In both cases, the federal government would force individuals to purchase a product from a private company—something that Congress has never done before.”

 

[Bfgrn]

Graduate Medical Education - Health Affairs

The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), through the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, is the single largest funder of graduate medical education (GME). This is the training that medical school graduates receive as residents in more than 1,000 of the nation's hospitals, known as "teaching" hospitals. These trainees are a key part of the labor supply at these hospitals.

 

[Andylusion]

Just a note for your own understanding. The federal government does not oversee medicare. They contract it out to civilian companies. All the government does is pay the bill. People see the medical providers they wish. Incompetence is a human issue, not a government issue. (I am not saying MC is good or bad, just what it is)

There isn't anything that the government does where they just "pay the bills". There are always all kinds of strings attached.

Check out medicare. They don't even pay enough to incent doctors to take on new patients. Now, that's health care for you.

I am 78 years old and my primary coverage is Medicare, with a supplement to cover the co-pay. I have never had a medical provider turn down providing services to me. If there are medical providers who won't accept Medicare, shame on them.

Of course our medical providers in my area aren't so greedy as those in some other areas.

It's pretty easy to just claim that others are greedy. That's fine.... but not true.

Have you ever worked in a doctors office? Have you ever seen the cost of running a general practice? Likely not.

I don't know what you did for a living, but if the cost of doing your job continued to climb, until you were not making the living you got the job to get, would you keep doing it?

Chances are you would not. Is that because you are greedy? Likely not.

If you got a 4-year degree in accounting, to earn a $60,000 income, and 10 years later you were earning $30,000, would you continue to work there?

No you would not.

Here's the bottom line. Medicare, and Medicaid, both do not pay out enough money to cover the cost of treatment. The payouts are low.

Doctors don't work for a middle income wage. Nor should they.

Remember Obama going to the Mayo Clinic? One of the leading clinics in the whole country? Remember that? Remember how he said Mayo was a model of health care?

Mayo Clinic Makes Medicare, Medicaid Cuts | Heartlander Magazine

The controversy over below-market government reimbursement rates has led the famed Mayo Clinic to close off access for many Medicare and Medicaid patients.

According to Mayo, Medicare was reimbursing doctors at the Mayo Clinic in Arizona for only about 50 percent of the cost of the primary care treatment they were providing, leading Mayo to make the decision to opt out of Medicare.

The Mayo Clinic that Obama praised, canceled Medicare and Medicaid.

Why? Because Medicare and Medicaid was only paying out 50% of the costs in treatment they were providing. So no more Medicare and Medicaid.

If you want the best health care in the US today, at the Mayo Clinic, Medicare and Medicaid patients need not apply. Show up with cash, or private insurance. No Medicare and Medicaid.

Now if you want to say they are greedy for not losing money, fine.... but if *YOU* were the one not getting paid, you wouldn't do it either. Welcome to reality.

 

[Andylusion]

Since I have been covered by Medicare Advantage ( 7 years, now) I have never had to wait more than 5 days to see my doc., and my out of pocket dollars are less than when I was employed with group health insurance. I have never had an authorization request refused, nor have I ever been told that a doc I wanted to see did not take Medicare patients. In short, it is the best insurance I have ever had.

Well of course. Everyone else is paying a higher price, so you can pay a lower price. You are punishing your children and grand children with higher taxes, and higher insurance premiums, so that you can have cheaper premiums, and cheaper health care.

You are not doing this intentionally with malice, but.... that's how the system works.

Socialism is always awesome to the people who benefit from it, until the money runs out.

Look at the Federal Debt. Look at the sluggish economy under the burden of taxes and regulation. The money is running out.

But until it does.... yeah, your Medicare is going to be wonderful.

 

[Andylusion]

That nonsense has been debunked over and over. One writer published an article in a Heritage publication and suddenly "conservatives" or "The GOP" invented the mandate.
Obama ran on the mandate in 08 and Hillary opposed it. Or vice versa, I can't remember. But not one GOP congressman voted for Obamacare or the mandate. How could it be their proposal and not one single person voted for it?

And here's the article debunking it. For the 10th time.
Don't Blame Heritage for ObamaCare Mandate | The Foundry: Conservative Policy News from The Heritage Foundation

Honesty has never been a conservative tenet.

Stuart Butler is LYING to you...

How the Heritage Foundation, a Conservative Think Tank, Promoted the Individual Mandate - Forbes

Avik Roy, Forbes Staff

Stuart Butler’s lecture describes what the Heritage’s mandate would look like:

"We would include a mandate in our proposal–not a mandate on employers, but a mandate on heads of households–to obtain at least a basic package of health insurance for themselves and their families. That would have to include, by federal law, a catastrophic provision in the form of a stop loss for a family’s total health outlays. It would have to include all members of the family, and it might also include certain very specific services, such as preventive care, well baby visits, and other items."

Taranto points out that the Heritage mandate was less onerous than the Obamacare one, as it focused on coverage for catastrophic illness, rather than the comprehensive health plans that Obamacare requires. “On the other hand, Butler’s vague language—‘it might also include certain very specific services…and other items’—would seem to leave the door wide open for limitless expansion,” he writes. “Whatever the particular differences, the Heritage mandate was indistinguishable in principle from the ObamaCare one. In both cases, the federal government would force individuals to purchase a product from a private company—something that Congress has never done before.”

I don't care. Who cares? Who signed it into law? The Heritage Foundation, or Obama? A conservative think tank, or a Democrap?

You can post links on this until the end of time. Doesn't change the answer to those questions.