President Trump backs new bill to give nationwide right to conceal carry

[M14 Shooter]

Yes background checks lowered crime.

This is a lie.

The last few years crime has increased with CCW.

This is also a lie.

Background checks passed in 93.

Yeah looks pretty clear it lowered violent crime.

And how is crime more recently with ccw at all time highs?
FBI: Violent crime up in 2016 for second year in a row

Google:
Post hoc ergo propter hoc

Your denial of reality is noted.

You inability to present an argument not based on a logical fallacy is expected.

You are fully aware of the fact that you cannot show causation, and so you won't even try,

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Yes background checks lowered crime.

This is a lie.

The last few years crime has increased with CCW.

This is also a lie.

Background checks passed in 93.

Yeah looks pretty clear it lowered violent crime.

And how is crime more recently with ccw at all time highs?
FBI: Violent crime up in 2016 for second year in a row

Look it up. It's called the Ferguson Effect.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Lawful means they are within the law. Killing somebody who is breaking into your home is lawful. Accidental deaths are not against the law, they are accidental. Suicides are not illegal because of the obvious reasons. In other words, your link is fudged data with nothing to back it up.

Here, try some honest data for a change.

Report: Concealed Carry Permit Holders Are The Most Law-Abiding People In The Country

John Lott? Haha. That guy is a complete joke and his name is on 99% of pro gun studies. Some real study info.

In his book, More Guns, Less Crime, as well as in other published articles, John Lott claims that RTC laws save lives and reduce violent crime. Lott argues that when more law-abiding citizens carry guns, more crimes will be deterred or successfully interrupted. Importantly, he contends that those who can legally own guns have such low rates of criminal offending, that the net effect of RTC laws and more legal gun carrying is to significantly lower rates of violent crime.
Lott’s research to support these claims, however, has been found to be flawed in many important ways.6,7,8,9 When those flaws are corrected, no crime-reducing effects of RTC laws are evident.
The most comprehensive, and arguably most rigorous, study on the effects of RTC laws was recently published by economists John Donohue
(Stanford), Abhay Aneja (University of California, Berkeley), and Kyle Weber (Columbia). Donohue and colleagues found that violent crime rates increased with each additional year a RTC law was in place, presumably as more people were carrying guns on their person and in their vehicles.b,10 By years 7 through 10 following the adoption of a RTC law, violent crime rates were 11% to 14% higher than predicted had such laws not been in place. After controlling for changes in incarceration rates and the number of police per capita, RTC laws were associated with a 10% higher murder rate 10 years following the adoption of RTC laws.11 This is consistent with findings from a prior study showing that violent crime increased with each year an RTC law was in place 12 and a recent study that found RTC laws are associated with a 10.6% increase in homicides committed with handguns. 13

https://www.jhsph.edu/research/cent.../publications/concealed-carry-of-firearms.pdf

Just what you posted shows that the article is biased and even fake. That is unless you believe their report is more accurate than FBI statistics.

View attachment 248220

Wisconsin is fairly new to concealed carry. Lets check how they are doing. They got carry at the end of 2011. Violent crime rates:
2011: 249.9
2012: 283.9
2013: 280.7
2014: 291.1
2015: 304.3
2016: 305.9
Ouch. Quite the gain since ccw.

Wisconsin Crime Rates 1960 - 2016

Which is also proportional to the demographics change in the state as well.

There has been no demographics change. Nice try.

Look it up. It's called the US Census.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Lawful means they are within the law. Killing somebody who is breaking into your home is lawful. Accidental deaths are not against the law, they are accidental. Suicides are not illegal because of the obvious reasons. In other words, your link is fudged data with nothing to back it up.

Here, try some honest data for a change.

Report: Concealed Carry Permit Holders Are The Most Law-Abiding People In The Country

John Lott? Haha. That guy is a complete joke and his name is on 99% of pro gun studies. Some real study info.

In his book, More Guns, Less Crime, as well as in other published articles, John Lott claims that RTC laws save lives and reduce violent crime. Lott argues that when more law-abiding citizens carry guns, more crimes will be deterred or successfully interrupted. Importantly, he contends that those who can legally own guns have such low rates of criminal offending, that the net effect of RTC laws and more legal gun carrying is to significantly lower rates of violent crime.
Lott’s research to support these claims, however, has been found to be flawed in many important ways.6,7,8,9 When those flaws are corrected, no crime-reducing effects of RTC laws are evident.
The most comprehensive, and arguably most rigorous, study on the effects of RTC laws was recently published by economists John Donohue
(Stanford), Abhay Aneja (University of California, Berkeley), and Kyle Weber (Columbia). Donohue and colleagues found that violent crime rates increased with each additional year a RTC law was in place, presumably as more people were carrying guns on their person and in their vehicles.b,10 By years 7 through 10 following the adoption of a RTC law, violent crime rates were 11% to 14% higher than predicted had such laws not been in place. After controlling for changes in incarceration rates and the number of police per capita, RTC laws were associated with a 10% higher murder rate 10 years following the adoption of RTC laws.11 This is consistent with findings from a prior study showing that violent crime increased with each year an RTC law was in place 12 and a recent study that found RTC laws are associated with a 10.6% increase in homicides committed with handguns. 13

https://www.jhsph.edu/research/cent.../publications/concealed-carry-of-firearms.pdf

Just what you posted shows that the article is biased and even fake. That is unless you believe their report is more accurate than FBI statistics.

View attachment 248220

Funny you should post that. The Brady bill was passed at the end of 1993. The graph clearly shows how effective it was. Thanks.

What the graph shows is that it was at it's height and going down before 1993. Furthermore all studies have shown it had no positive effect. The gun ban expired in 2004, and violent crime continued to decline until the Ferguson Effect kicked in at 2014 when police quit being proactive in their duties.

If the gun ban had any impact, violent crime would have reversed itself within a year or two. So why the continued decline? Because more states adopted CCW laws and laws that favored the shooter during that same period.

Yes background checks lowered crime. We need to make them stronger. The last few years crime has increased with CCW.

It had nothing to do with CCW's. If CCW's were the cause, crime would have been increasing as licenses were being issued. You can't say it was lowering while CCW's were increasing and then say crime increased because of CCW's. There is no logic in your argument.

 

[rightwinger]

A state issued drivers license is recognized nationwide

But you still have to follow each states laws