President Trump backs new bill to give nationwide right to conceal carry

[M14 Shooter]

Different requirements among the states to attain a CCW.

How does this override the privileges and immunities clause of the 14th Amendment?-

How does it not?

Ah. You cannot answer my question. Thank you.
The P+I clause of 14th amendment was designed to prevent sates from doing exactly what we see here - denying the people of another state the same rights, privileges and immunities enjoyed by the person of said state - If CA did not allow concealed carry, there'd be an argument for not recognizing an OH permit, but CA does, and so there isn't.

The permits are currently issued on a statewide basis and not by the federal government so your article IV argument doesn't have any traction.

Have you read the FF&C clause?
Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.
How does the FF&C clause not hold water?

 

[M14 Shooter]

any state that allows it should do so with their regs in place for their citizens. i'm saying if a state has different regs than the next one over or on different coasts, then that needs to be followed withineach of their boundaries.

There's no question that the time/place/manner restrictions on concealed carry in CA would apply to someone from OH while in CA - the discussion here centers on how/why the state of CA does not have to recognize an OH permit under its laws.

 

[litman]

I am a liberal as most of you know. I have no objection to a concealed carry in all 50 states as long as everyone has to go through a very comprehensive background check. Several steps up from just buying a gun. With open carry at least you can see that their is an idiot with a gun nearby. But why I agree is just like me who owned a motorhome and in a lot of states can arrest you for having a concealed weapon without a permit. While I never carried a gun with me I know a lot of people do. When you are in a different state and don't really know where it is really safe to spend the night. I can see that a federal law saying you can travel from state to state as I said before with expanded background check.

 

[HappyJoy]

Different requirements among the states to attain a CCW.

How does this override the privileges and immunities clause of the 14th Amendment?-

How does it not?

Ah. You cannot answer my question. Thank you.
The P+I clause of 14th amendment was designed to prevent sates from doing exactly what we see here - denying the people of another state the same rights, privileges and immunities enjoyed by the person of said state - If CA did not allow concealed carry, there'd be an argument for not recognizing an OH permit, but CA does, and so there isn't.

That doesn't make a lot of sense. If a person jumps through hurdles to get a CCW permit in California what right does someone from Arizona have to just waltz right on in having done almost nothing to get theirs? Last I checked this is how it works and I don't think it's been declared unconstitutional. You should give it a try and see what happens.

The permits are currently issued on a statewide basis and not by the federal government so your article IV argument doesn't have any traction.

Have you read the FF&C clause?
Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.
How does the FF&C clause not hold water?

How does it? If I'm a lawyer registered to practice law in one state doesn't mean I can walk into the courtroom of another state and practice. Same for a dentist, doctor and teacher.

 

[playtime]

any state that allows it should do so with their regs in place for their citizens. i'm saying if a state has different regs than the next one over or on different coasts, then that needs to be followed withineach of their boundaries.

There's no question that the time/place/manner restrictions on concealed carry in CA would apply to someone from OH while in CA - the discussion here centers on how/why the state of CA does not have to recognize an OH permit under its laws.

the point was made earlier by another poster. some states require more stringant background checks & passing a gun safety course & perhaps even provable recertification courses whilst other states do not. any state that doesn't want inexperienced or lazy yahoos coming in from from other states with concealed weapons should be their option.

 

[M14 Shooter]

I am a liberal as most of you know. I have no objection to a concealed carry in all 50 states as long as everyone has to go through a very comprehensive background check. Several steps up from just buying a gun.

Why? If ti is legal for you to won a gun, why should it not be just as legal to carry it?
After all - criminals carry guns, legally or otherwise.

 

[HappyJoy]

I am a liberal as most of you know. I have no objection to a concealed carry in all 50 states as long as everyone has to go through a very comprehensive background check. Several steps up from just buying a gun.

Why? If ti is legal for you to won a gun, why should it not be just as legal to carry it?
After all - criminals carry guns, legally or otherwise.

A lot of idiots who don't know how to use one do as well. Don't be lazy, cheap and irresponsible.

 

[bendog]

TWENTY FIVE PAGES OVER A DEBUNKED FAIL OF AN OP? Seriously.

 

[Pilot1]

Practicing law is a horrible analogy and if you are a lawyer you know why. Laws differ in each state. The right to self defense doesn't.

 

[HappyJoy]

TWENTY FIVE PAGES OVER A DEBUNKED FAIL OF AN OP? Seriously.

In all fairness that's about 80% of this board.

 

[M14 Shooter]

That doesn't make a lot of sense.

The constitution states people of a given state the have same rights, privileges and immunities enjoyed by the person of they state they are in - if CA allows the people of CA to carry guns, then it must also allow people from OH to carry guns while in CA.
You may not understand how this does not make sense, but you still have not soundly explained why that does not apply here.

How does the FF&C clause not hold water?

How does it? If I'm a lawyer....

We're not talking about professional licensures here, but the privileges and immunities of the people as whole.

Further, lawyers and doctors and teachers are generally allowed to practice their profession while temporarily in another state; if they move to the new state, they are required to get a new license.

 

[danielpalos]

The defense and protection of the state and of the United States is an obligation of all persons within the state. The legislature shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the maintenance and regulation of an organized militia.

Why do we have any security problems in our free States?

 

[M14 Shooter]

the point was made earlier by another poster. some states require more stringant background checks & passing a gun safety course & perhaps even provable recertification courses whilst other states do not. any state that doesn't want inexperienced or lazy yahoos coming in from from other states with concealed weapons should be their option.

And this point was countered by the fact that astate with less stringent CCW qualifications does not have to recognize a state with more stringent CCW qualifications, as well as the fact "qualifications" for the enjoyment of a privilege do not enter into the P&I clause.

 

[Pilot1]

State licensing for professionals is all about collecting fees.

 

[Pilot1]

With freedom comes risk. If you want to virtually eliminate risk, hide under your bed and stay there

 

[HappyJoy]

That doesn't make a lot of sense.

The constitution states people of a given state the have same rights, privileges and immunities enjoyed by the person of they state they are in - if CA allows the people of CA to carry guns, then it must also allow people from OH to carry guns while in CA.
You may not understand how this does not make sense, but you still have not soundly explained why that does not apply here.

How does the FF&C clause not hold water?

How does it? If I'm a lawyer....

We're not talking about professional licensures here, but the privileges and immunities of the people as whole.

Further, lawyers and doctors and teachers are generally allowed to practice their profession while temporarily in another state; if they move to the new state, they are required to get a new license.

You're free to apply for a license or permit in that state, just like if you are practicing law.

Just curious, does article IV specifically exclude occupational licenses?

 

[M14 Shooter]

You're free to apply for a license or permit in that state, just like if you are practicing law.

You continue to avoid the salient point:
The constitution states people of a given state the have same rights, privileges and immunities enjoyed by the person of they state they are in - if CA allows the people of CA to carry guns, then it must also allow people from OH to carry guns while in CA.
Let me know when you can meaningfully address this.

 

[HappyJoy]

You're free to apply for a license or permit in that state, just like if you are practicing law.

You continue to avoid the salient point:
The constitution states people of a given state the have same rights, privileges and immunities enjoyed by the person of they state they are in - if CA allows the people of CA to carry guns, then it must also allow people from OH to carry guns while in CA.
Let me know when you can meaningfully address this.

I'm not ignoring it, I'm asking why you don't have an issue with states not accepting professional licenses while you think it's a constitutional crisis that states aren't forced to accept gun permit licenses. Also, why don't you sue a state and see what happens?

 

[M14 Shooter]

You're free to apply for a license or permit in that state, just like if you are practicing law.

You continue to avoid the salient point:
The constitution states people of a given state the have same rights, privileges and immunities enjoyed by the person of they state they are in - if CA allows the people of CA to carry guns, then it must also allow people from OH to carry guns while in CA.
Let me know when you can meaningfully address this.

I'm not ignoring it...

The fact you have not meaningfully addressed the point says otherwise.

Professional licenses are not based on the basic rights associated with citizenship, while the right to keep and bear arms, free speech, etc, are.

 

[HappyJoy]

You're free to apply for a license or permit in that state, just like if you are practicing law.

You continue to avoid the salient point:
The constitution states people of a given state the have same rights, privileges and immunities enjoyed by the person of they state they are in - if CA allows the people of CA to carry guns, then it must also allow people from OH to carry guns while in CA.
Let me know when you can meaningfully address this.

I'm not ignoring it...

The fact you have not meaningfully addressed the point says otherwise.

I did. States are not automatically forced to accept all other licenses why should they for guns? I'll give another example. I have an OHV vehicle that is street legal, however I'm not allowed to drive it on roads in some other states.

Now, has this ever been challenged in court? What was the outcome? If all states are required to accept all other state gun permits then why do we even need the law mentioned in the OP?