Pro-"Palestinians"... is this what you want?

[Kondor3]

"...Nice try, but Taqiyya is about hiding one's religious faith when one is in danger..."

There is a recognized school of thought in Islam (specifically, Shiia, but spilling-over in practical usage to other forms, to varying degrees) which permits dissembling (lying) to enemies as a tool of Jihad.

The Palestinians have been in a constant state of Jihad with the Jews of Israel since 1948.

According to that school of thought, it is within the boundaries of Islamic ethics to dissemble in taking such an oath in order to obtain land in pursuit of the goals of long-term multi-generational Jihad.

Translation: the Oath you suggest would be tainted by the possibility of such interpretation and such dissembling and, consequently, would not be acceptable to Israelis, as a condition of readmission to Israel.

That's a far cry from accusing all Muslims of being liars, as your first fly-off-the-handle shoot-without-thinking-it-through overreaction indicates.

Now... any other questions that I can help you with this evening, pertaining to the uses of dissembling within the domain of Islam, that you have climbed within my head to observe?

 

[Kondor3]

Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Hyrcanus]

"...Nice try, but Taqiyya is about hiding one's religious faith when one is in danger..."

There is a recognized school of thought in Islam (specifically, Shiia, but spilling-over in practical usage to other forms, to varying degrees) which permits dissembling (lying) to enemies as a tool of Jihad.

The Palestinians have been in a constant state of Jihad with the Jews of Israel since 1948.

According to that school of thought, it is within the boundaries of Islamic ethics to dissemble in taking such an oath in order to obtain land in pursuit of the goals of long-term multi-generational Jihad.

Translation: the Oath you suggest would be tainted by the possibility of such interpretation and such dissembling and, consequently, would not be acceptable to Israelis, as a condition of readmission to Israel.

That's a far cry from accusing all Muslims of being liars, as your first fly-off-the-handle shoot-without-thinking-it-through overreaction indicates.

Now... any other questions that I can help you with this evening, pertaining to the uses of dissembling within the domain of Islam, that you have climbed within my head to observe?

Next you'll tell us that Jews can't be trusted because they say the Kol Nidre prayer every Yom Kippur.

 

[Kondor3]

"...Next you'll tell us..."

What I say next has nothing to do with the accuracy of what I have already said.

If you wish to dispute my interpretation, you may begin at your discretion.

 

[krych3k]

Well, your cherry-picked one sided version of 'history' isn't any prize for accuracy, Jose.

I don't see any mention of the pogroms against the Jews of Hebron in 1929, for example.

Nor did you see fit to notice the 950,000 Arab Jews who were ethnically cleansed from various Arab nations.

Oh, and you 'forgot' to mention the ethnic cleansing of East Jerusalem in'49 when the Jewish families living in a number of neighborhoods were forced out at gunpoint.

What, do ONLY Palestinian refugees have rights? Does ONLY Israel have a duty to return what was taken?

I suppose that's a POV: but don't presume to claim that would be 'justice'.

I have a great idea!

Since we all respect the Right to Return to lands that were fled during armed conflict, all Jews who fled the Arabs states during the 1948 war should be allowed to return to their former lands.

And all Arabs who fled Israel during the same war will also have the right to return to Israel.

Does that satisfy you?

Your comparison between the 800,000 Arabs who fled/kicked out of Israel in 1948 to the 800,000 Jews who came to Israel during its first ten years, is absurd.

These 800,000 Jews don't want to go back to their former lands. If anything, all they want is their money back. While the Arabs DO want to return to their former lands, and many simply would not accept monetary compensation for their lost properties.

You see, unlike the Jewish refugees from the Muslim lands, the Arab refugees from Israel can't be bought and don't want to be bought.

Hey genius, how many of those 800K Arabs that left the land of Israel in 1948 are alive in 2013? Even if a "Palestinian" was born in Hebron in 1948, that'd make him or her 65 years old. Most of them are dead, and those that are still living don't have much time left. So the "right of return" is nonsense.

 

[MHunterB]

Aside from the fact that I dispute your numbers - your sneering at the Jewish refugees is unconscionable. They were stripped of their citizenship and beggared and kicked out: if there is to be 'justice for refugees', there should be justice offered to ALL....

#1. The majority of Jewish refugees were NOT forced out by govt. decree.
What's your source for that?

#2. No Jewish refugees want to return to their formers homes. Not one.
Now, why do you suppose that might be?

#3. Unlike the Palestinians refugees, who have been abused as political pawns for 65 years, the Jewish refugees were settled and assimiliated into Israeli society as full citizens.
So what, they're not entitled to compensation for the theft by various 'governments' in Arab League lands? The AL states conspired to confiscate everything these people had: it's not relevant what happened afterwards, that doesn't remove the criminality of the AL conspiracy.

Comparing the status of Palestinian refugees to Jewish refugees is dishonest and ignorant.

Oh, really? And denying the Arab Jewish refugees compensation, or slandering them because they might accept it is what, exactly? Are you going to pretend you're being fair and honest? That you have any real regard for justice?

Incidentally, YOU are the one who began with the 'comparisons': all I did was state that there ARE Arab Jewish refugees. You seem to want to deny that they were refugees. Why do you think that's OK to do? It's not the Palestinians who would wind up paying reparations for most of that theft: are you so fond of Egypt, Syria, Iraq?

 

[krych3k]

"...Any refugees that are allowed to come back to Israel must swear to live at peace with their neighbors..."

Taqiyya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nice try, but Taqiyya is about hiding one's religious faith when one is in danger.

Now about hiding one's murderous intentions until one has the opportunity to act on them.

Taqqiya is much more than that. It is deception for the purpose of Islamic conquest.

 

[MHunterB]

"...Any refugees that are allowed to come back to Israel must swear to live at peace with their neighbors..."
Taqiyya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So you think all Muslims are liars?

That's pretty bigoted. Reminds me of the Neo-Nazis who complained that Joe Lieberman couldn't be trusted as Vice-President because as a Jew, he said the Kol Nidre which can be interpreted as saying that all promises & commitments made the previous year are null and void.

It can? By actual Jews practicing Judaism? I don't think so: the directive to 'follow the law of land' is a pretty high level one, and I don't think a mere prayer composed during a particular era for a particular situation could supersede that. I am not particularly a scholar of halacha, so I'll be asking a couple of rabbis I know to give me their opinions.

Just in case some *expletive deleted* induhvidual thinks that conspiranutter BS filth you 'para-quoted' is worth trying......

 

[Hyrcanus]

Taqqiya is much more than that. It is deception for the purpose of Islamic conquest.

So is the Kol Nidre, according to Neo-Nazis.

 

[Kondor3]

Taqqiya is much more than that. It is deception for the purpose of Islamic conquest.

So is the Kol Nidre, according to Neo-Nazis.

But we are not talking about Kol Nidre at the moment.

We are talking about Taqqiya.

And the question is:

Do various elements and forms of Islam also recognize Taqqiya - dissembling to the enemy - as an ethical and valid tool of Jihad?

(a state of affairs that would make an Oath by a Palestinian unappealing to Israelis as a criteria for readmission)

I say the answer to that question is" Yes - Taqqiya is perceived by many Muslims as a valid tool of Jihad.

You may begin your counterpointing of that contention at your discretion.

 

[krych3k]

Taqqiya is much more than that. It is deception for the purpose of Islamic conquest.

So is the Kol Nidre, according to Neo-Nazis.

Again, the pathetic attempt to draw a false parallel between Jews and Muslims, and Judaism and Islam. There is no Jewish counterpart to Islamic taqqiya. Nice try, though.

 

[Hyrcanus]

Again, the pathetic attempt to draw a false parallel between Jews and Muslims, and Judaism and Islam. There is no Jewish counterpart to Islamic taqqiya. Nice try, though.

Right, because Jews are special.

 

[Hyrcanus]

Its ZIonism and Nazism that are just alike. And its Zionism behind all the human rights abuses in Palestine.

You can't blame Zionism for human rights abuses committed by Hamas.

You can't blame Zionism for the PA law sentencing anyone to death if they sell land to a Jew.

 

[Indofred]

Its ZIonism and Nazism that are just alike. And its Zionism behind all the human rights abuses in Palestine.

Zionism (Extremist, terrorist Jews) are also the reason America gets attacked.
For some reason, American governments prefer to defend Israelis instead of Americans.

 

[Hyrcanus]

Zionism (Extremist, terrorist Jews) are also the reason America gets attacked.
For some reason, American governments prefer to defend Israelis instead of Americans.

Al Qaeda said the reason why they attacked the USA on 9-11 are:

1. The embargo on Iraq.

2. US troops in Saudi Arabia.

3. US support for Israel.

Clearly, American suppport for Israel isn't the only reason why they attack us.

 

[HistoryBefore67]

Again, the pathetic attempt to draw a false parallel between Jews and Muslims, and Judaism and Islam. There is no Jewish counterpart to Islamic taqqiya. Nice try, though.

Right, because Jews are special.

What's wrong with the concept of Jews being special, otter?

I know that Mr. Obama likes to play the "nobody is better than anyone else" card, but I don't buy that.

I think Jewish values and ideal are better than those of many faiths and cultures around the Earth, and I'm not afraid to say so.

As Mark Twain once wrote:

"The Egyptian, the Babylonian, and the Persian rose, filled the planet with sound and splendor, then . . . passed away. The Greek and the Roman followed. The Jew saw them all, beat them all, and is now what he always was, exhibiting no decadence, no infirmities of age, no weakening of his parts. … All things are mortal but the Jew; all other forces pass, but he remains. What is the secret of his immortality?"

 

[Hossfly]

Its ZIonism and Nazism that are just alike. And its Zionism behind all the human rights abuses in Palestine.

How do you arrive at that conclusion, Captain Knowledge?

 

[Hyrcanus]

What's wrong with the concept of Jews being special, otter?...

What's wrong with the concept of Whites being special?

That would be racism. But its ok for Jews to think they're special?

Interesting.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Zionism (Extremist, terrorist Jews) are also the reason America gets attacked.
For some reason, American governments prefer to defend Israelis instead of Americans.

Al Qaeda said the reason why they attacked the USA on 9-11 are:

1. The embargo on Iraq.

2. US troops in Saudi Arabia.

3. US support for Israel.

Clearly, American suppport for Israel isn't the only reason why they attack us.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?src_vid=bzYM9ZnWsnk&v=J1bm2GPoFfg]What motivated the 9/11 hijackers? See testimony most didn't - YouTube[/ame]

 

[HistoryBefore67]

Its ZIonism and Nazism that are just alike. And its Zionism behind all the human rights abuses in Palestine.

Isn't the internet great?

It allows cowards like Sherri to call people Nazis and get away with it.

I've got an idea, Sherri. Why don't you go to the next meeting of AIPAC, the JNF or the ZOA and tell everyone there how they are Nazis.