Progressives Killed Eric Garner

[boedicca]

Don't you sane people out there just love it when the RWnuts have to twist themselves into a mental pretzel trying to find some way to blame liberals for everything?

TRANSLATION: I can't refute anything the OP said. But I hate it anyway, so I'll ignore the details, call it names, attack the messenger, and call them names too. And maybe I can get somebody to believe me instead.

There's nothing that merits refuting in the OP. Blaming this on liberals is like claiming the moon is made of green cheese.

Scuze me, but what caused his selling loose cigarettes to be a crime worthy of police action?

 

[mdk]

It's true.
What was the "root cause" of police approaching Garner? He was illegally selling untaxed cigarettes.
Now, NY has raised taxes on cigarettes, a favored progressive cause, to unbelievable levels. And of course that invites activity to skirt the tax in any way. The simplest is to load up a van in NC, where the tax is low, drive the cigs to NY, where the tax is high, and sell them. They are like arbitragers.
Garner was simply responding to incentives put out by progressives and their insane tax policies and selling cigs to earn a living. But the result was an unforutnate encounter and his death. Better tax policies in NY would have left this man alive.

I couldn't agree more. We have Big Government trying to micro-manage and tax every aspect of Civil Society, and turning banal activities into crimes. No wonder the police are out of control. And Obama's solution is to give them more military grade weapons and equipment.

The Progs complain about the police brutality their Big Government policies enable.

So Washington and Hamilton are responsible for the deaths during the Whiskey Rebellion? Not hardly.

 

[Jarhead]

So, a police officer uses excessive force to investigate a meaninglessly minor offense, and it's the victim's fault that he died?

Statist fucks like you are what's destroying this country.

If you resist you get what you deserve. Don't give the cops a reason to bother you.

Like I said, you're the type of statist fuck that is destroying this country. There is no evidence that Garner was doing anything wrong. He was confronted by police, he told them he didn't want to talk to them an wanted to be left alone. The whole thing should have ended there. The police had no right to arrest Garner. What you call "resisting" is what everyone else calls "having rights."

Actually, there are facts about the situation you are not aware of.

In NYC (including all boros), a store owner/property owner is responsible for ANYTHING that may take place in front of his/her store/property. Whereas he does not own that sidewalk, if one were to trip on it within the property line, the property owner is responsible for any legal action.

About 30 years ago, street vendors had to get certain licenses to sell on the street. This protected the property owners as if there were an altercation or an incident due to the street vendor and the crowd he may attract, the street vendor was in first position for legal action.

This guy was selling cigarettes...not a horrible crime, but if there were an incident, he was not licensed, and the property owner would be responsible.

So the NYPD has a civil responsibility to eliminate any illegal street vending.

Yes, it turned bad....but they had to tell the man to "move along"...and he refused.

 

[Discombobulated]

Here is a good Opinion piece.

Blame only the man who tragically decided to resist New York Post

"First, while “chokeholds” are banned by NYPD regulation, they’re not illegal under state law when used by a cop during a lawful arrest. So much for criminal charges, given that nobody seriously disputes the legitimacy of the arrest."

"Finally, there is this: There were 228,000 misdemeanor arrests in New York City in 2013, the last year for which there are audited figures, and every one of them had at least the potential to turn into an Eric Garner-like case."

The unnecessary use of force can be a criminal offense, no matter what the means is.

If it was unnecessary. It looked to me like it was the only way to control the man when he refused to let himself be arrested.

That's because all the weenies and dipshits like you on this thread have never been involved in any situation that required you to legally restrain anyone. You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[StevenC]

Don't you sane people out there just love it when the RWnuts have to twist themselves into a mental pretzel trying to find some way to blame liberals for everything?

TRANSLATION: I can't refute anything the OP said. But I hate it anyway, so I'll ignore the details, call it names, attack the messenger, and call them names too. And maybe I can get somebody to believe me instead.

There's nothing that merits refuting in the OP. Blaming this on liberals is like claiming the moon is made of green cheese.

I agree we shouldn't blame liberals. We should

Here is a good Opinion piece.

Blame only the man who tragically decided to resist New York Post

"First, while “chokeholds” are banned by NYPD regulation, they’re not illegal under state law when used by a cop during a lawful arrest. So much for criminal charges, given that nobody seriously disputes the legitimacy of the arrest."

"Finally, there is this: There were 228,000 misdemeanor arrests in New York City in 2013, the last year for which there are audited figures, and every one of them had at least the potential to turn into an Eric Garner-like case."

The unnecessary use of force can be a criminal offense, no matter what the means is.

If it was unnecessary. It looked to me like it was the only way to control the man when he refused to let himself be arrested.

Since he's dead, you'd have to prove it was necessary to use lethal force.

So now it is lethal an not unnecessary? No you have to prove it was unnecessary and it appears they couldn't.

 

[boedicca]

It's true.
What was the "root cause" of police approaching Garner? He was illegally selling untaxed cigarettes.
Now, NY has raised taxes on cigarettes, a favored progressive cause, to unbelievable levels. And of course that invites activity to skirt the tax in any way. The simplest is to load up a van in NC, where the tax is low, drive the cigs to NY, where the tax is high, and sell them. They are like arbitragers.
Garner was simply responding to incentives put out by progressives and their insane tax policies and selling cigs to earn a living. But the result was an unforutnate encounter and his death. Better tax policies in NY would have left this man alive.

I couldn't agree more. We have Big Government trying to micro-manage and tax every aspect of Civil Society, and turning banal activities into crimes. No wonder the police are out of control. And Obama's solution is to give them more military grade weapons and equipment.

The Progs complain about the police brutality their Big Government policies enable.

So Washington and Hamilton are responsible for the deaths during the Whiskey Rebellion? Not hardly.

Your faux relativism is incredibly pathetic.

 

[Jarhead]

Don't you sane people out there just love it when the RWnuts have to twist themselves into a mental pretzel trying to find some way to blame liberals for everything?

TRANSLATION: I can't refute anything the OP said. But I hate it anyway, so I'll ignore the details, call it names, attack the messenger, and call them names too. And maybe I can get somebody to believe me instead.

There's nothing that merits refuting in the OP. Blaming this on liberals is like claiming the moon is made of green cheese.

Scuze me, but what caused his selling loose cigarettes to be a crime worthy of police action?

See my post #63......it is legit. They have to in an effort to protect the owner of the property

 

[boedicca]

Don't you sane people out there just love it when the RWnuts have to twist themselves into a mental pretzel trying to find some way to blame liberals for everything?

TRANSLATION: I can't refute anything the OP said. But I hate it anyway, so I'll ignore the details, call it names, attack the messenger, and call them names too. And maybe I can get somebody to believe me instead.

There's nothing that merits refuting in the OP. Blaming this on liberals is like claiming the moon is made of green cheese.

Scuze me, but what caused his selling loose cigarettes to be a crime worthy of police action?

See my post #63......it is legit. They have to in an effort to protect the owner of the property

Really? They had to use force? This was a petty regulatory infraction and should have resulted in a citation at most.

 

[Jarhead]

It was not a choke hold. That is what the media refers it to....and progressives jumped on it.

A choke hold is when you hold someone to the point where they can not breathe.

The man continually said "I cant breathe"....

If one cant breathe, one can not say they cant breathe....thus the reason for the universal sign of choking...it is the only way a choking person can say they are choking.

It was not a choke hold. It was a wrestling hold commonly known as a half nelson.

The media makes the intelligent, like you, look stupid.

Maybe you just forgot to watch the video.

maybe you forgot to read my post.

As the video shows, the man is saying "I cant breathe"..

If one cant breathe, then one can not speak. Breathe is necessary to speak. That is fact.

The video clearly shows the man in a half nelson...a commonly used wresting move and a commonly used police tactic used to keep someone under their control.

Know your facts before calling for the firing of someone

Don't believe your eyes then, just keep lying.

is it that you do not know how to read or is it that you do not wish to address the facts.

The man is breathing or he would not be able to say "I cant breathe"...

When a half nelson hold blocks the airway it is a choke hold....and no longer a half nelson.

If it doesn't block the airway, as in this case, it is a half nelson....commonly taught to and used by most PD's.

What is it that you don't get?

Why do you have to lie all the time? Don't your so called arguments stand on their own merits? Apparently not. You're not even a good liar.....just plain stupid.

explain what is a lie.

Fact: One can not speak if one can not breathe.
Fact: A half Nelson is a hold where you wrap your arm around the neck of an opponent WITHOUT closing the wind pipe.

You continually tell me I am wrong, but you wont tell me where.

Enlighten me.

 

[Ravi]

The choke hold is clearly against NYPD policy, the officer in question should be fired.

It was not a choke hold. That is what the media refers it to....and progressives jumped on it.

A choke hold is when you hold someone to the point where they can not breathe.

The man continually said "I cant breathe"....

If one cant breathe, one can not say they cant breathe....thus the reason for the universal sign of choking...it is the only way a choking person can say they are choking.

It was not a choke hold. It was a wrestling hold commonly known as a half nelson.

The media makes the intelligent, like you, look stupid.

Maybe you just forgot to watch the video.

maybe you forgot to read my post.

As the video shows, the man is saying "I cant breathe"..

If one cant breathe, then one can not speak. Breathe is necessary to speak. That is fact.

The video clearly shows the man in a half nelson...a commonly used wresting move and a commonly used police tactic used to keep someone under their control.

Know your facts before calling for the firing of someone

Don't believe your eyes then, just keep lying.

is it that you do not know how to read or is it that you do not wish to address the facts.

The man is breathing or he would not be able to say "I cant breathe"...

When a half nelson hold blocks the airway it is a choke hold....and no longer a half nelson.

If it doesn't block the airway, as in this case, it is a half nelson....commonly taught to and used by most PD's.

What is it that you don't get?

You guys are such asses.

He should have been more direct in his declarations so even the stupid fucking cops could understand him.

He should have said, "Mr. Police Officer, sir? I'm having a rather difficult time breathing, can you please stop applying pressure to my neck? Thank you, kind sir."

 

[Discombobulated]

The forearm around the throat must be the new revised version of the half nelson......very Greco Roman.

 

[Jarhead]

Don't you sane people out there just love it when the RWnuts have to twist themselves into a mental pretzel trying to find some way to blame liberals for everything?

TRANSLATION: I can't refute anything the OP said. But I hate it anyway, so I'll ignore the details, call it names, attack the messenger, and call them names too. And maybe I can get somebody to believe me instead.

There's nothing that merits refuting in the OP. Blaming this on liberals is like claiming the moon is made of green cheese.

Scuze me, but what caused his selling loose cigarettes to be a crime worthy of police action?

See my post #63......it is legit. They have to in an effort to protect the owner of the property

Really? They had to use force? This was a petty regulatory infraction and should have resulted in a citation at most.

They asked him to move along. They had to. To allow him to continue selling cigarettes there would be wrong to the owner of the property.
The police action was not due to what he was selling.
It was due to the fact that he would not "move along"

Wow, the media really does not want folks to know the facts on this one.

Here in NYC, they did when it happened...and still are.

 

[mdk]

It's true.
What was the "root cause" of police approaching Garner? He was illegally selling untaxed cigarettes.
Now, NY has raised taxes on cigarettes, a favored progressive cause, to unbelievable levels. And of course that invites activity to skirt the tax in any way. The simplest is to load up a van in NC, where the tax is low, drive the cigs to NY, where the tax is high, and sell them. They are like arbitragers.
Garner was simply responding to incentives put out by progressives and their insane tax policies and selling cigs to earn a living. But the result was an unforutnate encounter and his death. Better tax policies in NY would have left this man alive.

I couldn't agree more. We have Big Government trying to micro-manage and tax every aspect of Civil Society, and turning banal activities into crimes. No wonder the police are out of control. And Obama's solution is to give them more military grade weapons and equipment.

The Progs complain about the police brutality their Big Government policies enable.

So Washington and Hamilton are responsible for the deaths during the Whiskey Rebellion? Not hardly.

Your faux relativism is incredibly pathetic.

So if the people responsible for the tax are too blame in this case then Washington and Hamilton are to blame for the deaths during the Whiskey Rebellion. I think both positions are absurd but you don't and that makes you an inconsistent hypocrite.

 

[Camp]

Eric Garner DID commit suicide.by failing to comply with the commands of the NYPD officers on the scene. At that point any negative outcome was his own fault.

I say this as an individual who truly expects to see his life end at the hands of LEOs, but when you resist an officer or fail to comply with commands, you have to expect the worst response (for you) possible.

The choke hold is clearly against NYPD policy, the officer in question should be fired.

It was not a choke hold. That is what the media refers it to....and progressives jumped on it.

A choke hold is when you hold someone to the point where they can not breathe.

The man continually said "I cant breathe"....

If one cant breathe, one can not say they cant breathe....thus the reason for the universal sign of choking...it is the only way a choking person can say they are choking.

It was not a choke hold. It was a wrestling hold commonly known as a half nelson.

The media makes the intelligent, like you, look stupid.

Maybe you just forgot to watch the video.

maybe you forgot to read my post.

As the video shows, the man is saying "I cant breathe"..

If one cant breathe, then one can not speak. Breathe is necessary to speak. That is fact.

The video clearly shows the man in a half nelson...a commonly used wresting move and a commonly used police tactic used to keep someone under their control.

Know your facts before calling for the firing of someone

You are mistaken on both of the points you are attempting to make. A half nelson looks nothing like the policeman's hold and people are able to talk while being choked. Choking is a relatively slow death.

 

[Pop23]

Wow, this is like saying that since prudish Republicans keep public nudity illegal, cops are free to kill nude people and it will be all the fault of Republicans.

The state profits from nudity?

How so?

 

[Jarhead]

The forearm around the throat must be the new revised version of the half nelson......very Greco Roman.

It is an issue of where the pressure is placed....via the bicep on the back of the neck (half nelson) or via the forearm on the throat (choke hold).

In this case, it must have been via the pressure on the back of the neck because he was obviously breathing....so it was a half nelson.

 

[Discombobulated]

The forearm around the throat must be the new revised version of the half nelson......very Greco Roman.

It is an issue of where the pressure is placed....via the bicep on the back of the neck (half nelson) or via the forearm on the throat (choke hold).

In this case, it must have been via the pressure on the back of the neck because he was obviously breathing....so it was a half nelson.

You've never been in a real fight in your whole life......have you?

 

[The Rabbi]

Now, NY has raised taxes on cigarettes, a favored progressive cause

Raising the cigarette tax is a favored progressive cause, eh?

Jindal tax plan would raise state sales tax rate to 5.88 percent

Part of Jindal's tax plan:

The proposal also calls for increasing the state's cigarette tax from 36 cents to $1.41 per pack.

Moving on to that bastion of Liberalism, the socialist state of Arizona:

Indeed, it's no surprise that the public in Arizona would favor a cigarette tax increase above all else. On at least two prior occasions (Prop 200 in 1994 and Prop 303 in 2002), Arizona voters approved increases in the state's cigarette tax.

This time, however, voters would not only be approving an increase in the state cigarette tax (from the current rate of $1.18 per pack to a new rate of $1.98 per pack) as well as increases in other tobacco products, but they would also approve the creation of a special "board" that would determine how the funds generated (~$150 million per year) would be spent. This board would be appointed by the governor and approved by the legislature.

Arizona is Hooked on Cigarette Tax Revenue Tax Foundation

Are you suggesting progressives dont want conficatory taxes on cigarettes?

 

[mdk]

Wow, this is like saying that since prudish Republicans keep public nudity illegal, cops are free to kill nude people and it will be all the fault of Republicans.

The state profits from nudity?

How so?

Maybe not public nudity but I am pretty sure the states tax the porn industry. To what extent I don't know.

 

[mdk]

Now, NY has raised taxes on cigarettes, a favored progressive cause

Raising the cigarette tax is a favored progressive cause, eh?

Jindal tax plan would raise state sales tax rate to 5.88 percent

Part of Jindal's tax plan:

The proposal also calls for increasing the state's cigarette tax from 36 cents to $1.41 per pack.

Moving on to that bastion of Liberalism, the socialist state of Arizona:

Indeed, it's no surprise that the public in Arizona would favor a cigarette tax increase above all else. On at least two prior occasions (Prop 200 in 1994 and Prop 303 in 2002), Arizona voters approved increases in the state's cigarette tax.

This time, however, voters would not only be approving an increase in the state cigarette tax (from the current rate of $1.18 per pack to a new rate of $1.98 per pack) as well as increases in other tobacco products, but they would also approve the creation of a special "board" that would determine how the funds generated (~$150 million per year) would be spent. This board would be appointed by the governor and approved by the legislature.

Arizona is Hooked on Cigarette Tax Revenue Tax Foundation

Are you suggesting progressives dont want conficatory taxes on cigarettes?

The anti-smoking crusade is a bi-partisan endeavor. It crosses both sides of the aisle. They're not called Sin Taxes for nothing.