Question for sailors: How could a destroyer be rammed broadside by a supertanker?

[Iceweasel]

The radar guy must have been sleeping too.

There are more than one!

Maybe they were sleeping together. A radar love sort of thing.

 

[MarathonMike]

Ok fine it's a container ship and there are more than one radar guys. Can you offer us any idea how this happens and why a Destroyer would be unable to detect or evade the ship?

 

[depotoo]

Ship, sorry. But the info on that particular container ship, the ACX Crystal states that is its speed.
MV ACX Crystal - Wikipedia

This tanker has a speed upwards of 25 knots. According to its reported speed it was around 18 knots when it collided.

A destroyer has a top speed of maybe 35 knots (or more), a tanker 12 knots though a tanker would usually travel at 8-10 knots. As soon as I heard of this I thought there was something not right. Even if a crew on a tanker were hell bent on ramming a US navy ship it should never get close. Worst case scenario is the tanker didn't respond to warnings from the destroyer, the destroyer could have just gunned the engines and moved.

Unless of course it was in 'the Japanese Bermuda Triangle'!

It is a container ship, not a tanker.

 

[eagle1462010]

Ok fine it's a container ship and there are more than one radar guys. Can you offer us any idea how this happens and why a Destroyer would be unable to detect or evade the ship?

There are always possibilities..........doubtful at best................could have had power problems.....Radar could have malfunctioned..............but they have more than one radar.............The ship could have just gotten underway..........I don't know.........and the crew may have tied one on.................Hungover...........Low visibility.............engine malfunctions causing it to go dead in the water...............

There are other possible issues..............but highly unlikely.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

The radar guy must have been sleeping too.

There are more than one!

Maybe they were sleeping together. A radar love sort of thing.

Not funny considering the circumstances.

 

[MarathonMike]

Ok fine it's a container ship and there are more than one radar guys. Can you offer us any idea how this happens and why a Destroyer would be unable to detect or evade the ship?

There are always possibilities..........doubtful at best................could have had power problems.....Radar could have malfunctioned..............but they have more than one radar.............The ship could have just gotten underway..........I don't know.........and the crew may have tied one on.................Hungover...........Low visibility.............engine malfunctions causing it to go dead in the water...............

There are other possible issues..............but highly unlikely.

Thank you for offering some possibilities. I can only speculate that it was late at night, ship was more or less on autopilot and the skeleton crew that was supposed to have the watch was not on the job. As for the U turn the tanker took and then headed directly into the Destroyer, it's looking like a high probability of a high jack and deliberate ramming.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Ok fine it's a container ship and there are more than one radar guys. Can you offer us any idea how this happens and why a Destroyer would be unable to detect or evade the ship?

There are always possibilities..........doubtful at best................could have had power problems.....Radar could have malfunctioned..............but they have more than one radar.............The ship could have just gotten underway..........I don't know.........and the crew may have tied one on.................Hungover...........Low visibility.............engine malfunctions causing it to go dead in the water...............

There are other possible issues..............but highly unlikely.

Pure speculation is all you have.

I can relate a personal experience.

In about 1987, we were transiting an area south of the Straits of Messina (think where the boot of Italy kicks Sicily) on a guided missile cruiser which was 547 feet long.

I was the watch officer in the Combat Information Center and my best friend was the officer of the deck (OOD) on the bridge. This was my second Med deployment and I had been on board about 2 years.

There was a small intermittent radar contact approaching us from the south as most of the major traffic flowed north towards the straits.. We were headed southeast and my watch team was tracking about 20 radar contacts at the time. The weather was clear and visibility was good.

This radar contact would pop up for a few sweeps of the radar and then disappear for a few minutes, only to pop up back again. Both a scope plot and maneuvering board solution showed that it was close to a constant bearing - decreasing range contact (CBDR) or a collision course, but it was still many miles off. It continued to pop-up and disappear for about the next 20 minutes of so. I had already designated the track and we were watching it closely. I informed the watch supervisor I was going to the bridge to confer with the OOD. We should have had a visual on his port running light with the track they were following. No one saw a thing, so I returned back to CIC.

As the minutes wore on, the contact continued to pop up and then disappear. Finally, I decided to go back to the bridge to see that the watch could see, as they were still reporting no visual on the contact. Looking for myself, I was finally able to make out a white light directly ahead. As I told the ODD, what I saw, I continued looking to the starboard side and saw another white light. This made no sense, as the only white light we should be seeing would be if we were behind him. I walked out on the bridge wing for a better look with my OOD following me.

The next thing we saw still scares me to this day. A very large container ship, not unlike the one involved in the collision with the USS Fitzgerald, was dead ahead at a range of about 200 yards. It was showing lights as though it was anchored, in waters far too deep to have been anchored, but moving at about 15 knots. Because our paths were almost perpendicular, we passed just behind him with a clearance of about 50 yards. We had taken no action to change course as would have been required because we simply did not know what was out there. Why such a large ship failed to show up visibly or even on radar made no sense. I believe they were running with the wrong lights or or they had turned them off completely until right before we got too close for comfort.

I will be really interested in seeing why the container ship in this instance apparently doubled back on it's track not once, but twice. The investigation will find out what happened.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Ok fine it's a container ship and there are more than one radar guys. Can you offer us any idea how this happens and why a Destroyer would be unable to detect or evade the ship?

There are always possibilities..........doubtful at best................could have had power problems.....Radar could have malfunctioned..............but they have more than one radar.............The ship could have just gotten underway..........I don't know.........and the crew may have tied one on.................Hungover...........Low visibility.............engine malfunctions causing it to go dead in the water...............

There are other possible issues..............but highly unlikely.

Thank you for offering some possibilities. I can only speculate that it was late at night, ship was more or less on autopilot and the skeleton crew that was supposed to have the watch was not on the job. As for the U turn the tanker took and then headed directly into the Destroyer, it's looking like a high probability of a high jack and deliberate ramming.

There are no "skeleton crews" on watch on a naval vessel. Each watch rotation has a set manning level.

 

[Marianne]

Only two things I want to know. Was the captain of the container ship named Mohammad and how the hell did it sneak up on one of our Navy ships?

 

[MarathonMike]

Ok fine it's a container ship and there are more than one radar guys. Can you offer us any idea how this happens and why a Destroyer would be unable to detect or evade the ship?

There are always possibilities..........doubtful at best................could have had power problems.....Radar could have malfunctioned..............but they have more than one radar.............The ship could have just gotten underway..........I don't know.........and the crew may have tied one on.................Hungover...........Low visibility.............engine malfunctions causing it to go dead in the water...............

There are other possible issues..............but highly unlikely.

Pure speculation is all you have.

I can relate a personal experience.

In about 1987, we were transiting an area south of the Straits of Messina (think where the boot of Italy kicks Sicily) on a guided missile cruiser which was 547 feet long.

I was the watch officer in the Combat Information Center and my best friend was the officer of the deck (OOD) on the bridge. This was my second Med deployment and I had been on board about 2 years.

There was a small intermittent radar contact approaching us from the south as most of the major traffic flowed north towards the straits.. We were headed southeast and my watch team was tracking about 20 radar contacts at the time. The weather was clear and visibility was good.

This radar contact would pop up for a few sweeps of the radar and then disappear for a few minutes, only to pop up back again. Both a scope plot and maneuvering board solution showed that it was close to a constant bearing - decreasing range contact (CBDR) or a collision course, but it was still many miles off. It continued to pop-up and disappear for about the next 20 minutes of so. I had already designated the track and we were watching it closely. I informed the watch supervisor I was going to the bridge to confer with the OOD. We should have had a visual on his port running light with the track they were following. No one saw a thing, so I returned back to CIC.

As the minutes wore on, the contact continued to pop up and then disappear. Finally, I decided to go back to the bridge to see that the watch could see, as they were still reporting no visual on the contact. Looking for myself, I was finally able to make out a white light directly ahead. As I told the ODD, what I saw, I continued looking to the starboard side and saw another white light. This made no sense, as the only white light we should be seeing would be if we were behind him. I walked out on the bridge wing for a better look with my OOD following me.

The next thing we saw still scares me to this day. A very large container ship, not unlike the one involved in the collision with the USS Fitzgerald, was dead ahead at a range of about 200 yards. It was showing lights as though it was anchored, in waters far too deep to have been anchored, but moving at about 15 knots. Because our paths were almost perpendicular, we passed just behind him with a clearance of about 50 yards. We had taken no action to change course as would have been required because we simply did not know what was out there. Why such a large ship failed to show up visibly or even on radar made no sense. I believe they were running with the wrong lights or or they had turned them off completely until right before we got too close for comfort.

I will be really interested in seeing why the container ship in this instance apparently doubled back on it's track not once, but twice. The investigation will find out what happened.

Thank you that was precisely the expert response I was hoping for.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Ok fine it's a container ship and there are more than one radar guys. Can you offer us any idea how this happens and why a Destroyer would be unable to detect or evade the ship?

There are always possibilities..........doubtful at best................could have had power problems.....Radar could have malfunctioned..............but they have more than one radar.............The ship could have just gotten underway..........I don't know.........and the crew may have tied one on.................Hungover...........Low visibility.............engine malfunctions causing it to go dead in the water...............

There are other possible issues..............but highly unlikely.

Pure speculation is all you have.

I can relate a personal experience.

In about 1987, we were transiting an area south of the Straits of Messina (think where the boot of Italy kicks Sicily) on a guided missile cruiser which was 547 feet long.

I was the watch officer in the Combat Information Center and my best friend was the officer of the deck (OOD) on the bridge. This was my second Med deployment and I had been on board about 2 years.

There was a small intermittent radar contact approaching us from the south as most of the major traffic flowed north towards the straits.. We were headed southeast and my watch team was tracking about 20 radar contacts at the time. The weather was clear and visibility was good.

This radar contact would pop up for a few sweeps of the radar and then disappear for a few minutes, only to pop up back again. Both a scope plot and maneuvering board solution showed that it was close to a constant bearing - decreasing range contact (CBDR) or a collision course, but it was still many miles off. It continued to pop-up and disappear for about the next 20 minutes of so. I had already designated the track and we were watching it closely. I informed the watch supervisor I was going to the bridge to confer with the OOD. We should have had a visual on his port running light with the track they were following. No one saw a thing, so I returned back to CIC.

As the minutes wore on, the contact continued to pop up and then disappear. Finally, I decided to go back to the bridge to see that the watch could see, as they were still reporting no visual on the contact. Looking for myself, I was finally able to make out a white light directly ahead. As I told the ODD, what I saw, I continued looking to the starboard side and saw another white light. This made no sense, as the only white light we should be seeing would be if we were behind him. I walked out on the bridge wing for a better look with my OOD following me.

The next thing we saw still scares me to this day. A very large container ship, not unlike the one involved in the collision with the USS Fitzgerald, was dead ahead at a range of about 200 yards. It was showing lights as though it was anchored, in waters far too deep to have been anchored, but moving at about 15 knots. Because our paths were almost perpendicular, we passed just behind him with a clearance of about 50 yards. We had taken no action to change course as would have been required because we simply did not know what was out there. Why such a large ship failed to show up visibly or even on radar made no sense. I believe they were running with the wrong lights or or they had turned them off completely until right before we got too close for comfort.

I will be really interested in seeing why the container ship in this instance apparently doubled back on it's track not once, but twice. The investigation will find out what happened.

Thank you that was precisely the expert response I was hoping for.

You are welcome!

 

[MikeK]

So we've been attacked by Manila, then? Or Japan?

If it was deliberate it could have been effected by a single individual who no one would have suspected.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

So we've been attacked by Manila, then? Or Japan?

If it was deliberate it could have been effected by a single individual who no one would have suspected.

A single individual?

It actually is very difficult to hit another ship if they are following the Rules of the Road.

That container ship is about as maneuverable as the Statue of Liberty.

 

[dannyboys]

I'm thinking it was deliberate. The other ship did a weird loop and rammed it.

Supertankers take about five miles at three knots to make a "weird loop".

 

[dannyboys]

Years ago our enemy attacked the USS Cole using a small fishing boat with a bomb on board. It was deadly. The Cole is the same class guided missile destroyer as Fitzgerald. Obviously our enemy could possibly use a container ship to ram us. Surely the Navy knows what kind of damage a ramming container ship can do...

TANKER!!!!!!!! NOT A CONTAINER SHIP ASSHOLE. If you want to post fucking at least KEEP UP!

 

[dannyboys]

The radar guy must have been sleeping too.

There are more than one!

There's at least four independent radar systems on the destroyer. There's 'side scan' radar. Doppler radar. And a few others which are classified.
There's at least two 'real time' satellite navigation systems each 100% independent. A Navy technician sitting in Texas can operate the ship's navigation system for Christs sake!
Something stinks here.
The ship's defenses are designed to spot and destroy a missile approaching the ship at 600 MPH from five miles out.

 

[Iceweasel]

I'm thinking it was deliberate. The other ship did a weird loop and rammed it.

Supertankers take about five miles at three knots to make a "weird loop".

...and it happened by all reports I've seen.

 

[Iceweasel]

Years ago our enemy attacked the USS Cole using a small fishing boat with a bomb on board. It was deadly. The Cole is the same class guided missile destroyer as Fitzgerald. Obviously our enemy could possibly use a container ship to ram us. Surely the Navy knows what kind of damage a ramming container ship can do...

TANKER!!!!!!!! NOT A CONTAINER SHIP ASSHOLE. If you want to post fucking at least KEEP UP!

 

[Scamp]

Years ago our enemy attacked the USS Cole using a small fishing boat with a bomb on board. It was deadly. The Cole is the same class guided missile destroyer as Fitzgerald. Obviously our enemy could possibly use a container ship to ram us. Surely the Navy knows what kind of damage a ramming container ship can do...

TANKER!!!!!!!! NOT A CONTAINER SHIP ASSHOLE. If you want to post fucking at least KEEP UP!

There is no "tanker" involved in this incident. It was a container ship.

 

[depotoo]

Ok, so the time if the incident was reported was 2:20, but it happened about an hour before, which makes sense with the maritime traffic info

It took nearly an hour for the collision to be reported
An official for Japan's coast guard said it is investigating why it took nearly an hour for the collision to be reported, the AP reported.

The coast guard originally said the collision occurred at 2:20 a.m. because when the container ship reported the incident it at 2:25 a.m., it said the collision had just happened. The coast guard later changed the collision time to 1:30 a.m. after interviewing crewmembers aboard the container ship.
What we know about Navy destroyer's deadly collision