Question for those pushing a "living wage"

[Brain357]

The logical fallacy you just committed is begging the question.

So let's say wal-mart raises wages to $15 an hour or whatever you want. So then they fire all their current employees and hire better ones. Then their current employees are back entirely on welfare.

How did this help you exactly?

What makes you think the current employees wouldn't earn the higher wage? Now they would have more incentive to do a good job. Now they might get my business.

You've obviously never managed anyone in your life, it doesn't work that way. No one works harder because they are paid more and no one who has ever managed anyone would say that.

You can hire a lot more reliable employee in the $10-$12 range than minimum wage. And you can hire a lot better employee than that when you get to $15 an hour. So obviously Walmart paying more will hire better employees and the ones now are going to be on the street.

So egain, how did you help them exactly?

I disagree. Now they have a better job worth holding onto. I have manages people, not sure what you have managed.

 

[Brain357]

Tell me how much is standing there scanning bar codes and stuffing crap in a bag worth per hour?

Those cashiers don't even have to be able to add anymore a fucking retard could do the job.

If your job is so easy a retarded person could do it you certainly don't deserve 15 an hour.

And if you're over 25 and still earning minimum wage you sir or madam are a fucking loser.

Those people have made the Walton's the richest family in the world.

Those bastards! That's disgusting!

Disgusting is them getting extremely poor wages in return.

 

[kaz]

I get the Walton's are making billions with help from corporate welfare. My tax dollars shouldn't be going to billionaires. You don't get that do you? How about we just start gov run stores that pay better and close walmart? Would be about the same thing, just cutting out the billionaires.

The logical fallacy you just committed is begging the question.

So let's say wal-mart raises wages to $15 an hour or whatever you want. So then they fire all their current employees and hire better ones. Then their current employees are back entirely on welfare.

How did this help you exactly?

What would make the new employees be any better than the old ones ? I shop in WalMart all the time. I get good assistance from the employees there. The cashiers do their jobs all right. I see no reason to let anybody go.

I see, so you think workers are like socket wrenches? One is as good or as bad as the other? Not so, Comrade.

First of all, better employees get more done faster. They also work more independently. And you need fewer of them. You also need fewer managers since there are fewer employees. For my low end jobs in my business, I have documentation on every procedure. They have to complete detailed paperwork and follow detailed steps. For my higher end workers, they get more guidelines and work more autonomously. Seriously, have none of you people ever had a job before? I fell like I'm typing the blatantly obvious.

 

[kaz]

Welcome to Fantasy Island

Ecnomics is anything you want it to be

A liberal chastising someone for not grasping economics, OK, that made me laugh...

Anyone who is serious about wanting a job could get one. Maybe not paying what they want, maybe they need to work harder and care more about their job. But no one has an excuse not to be able to get one.

There are millions of Americans who want a job and can't get one. Reasons are various. Automation is one. Immigration is another. Much of it is employer discrimination. Discrimination based on age, weight, not enough education, too much education, affirmative action, length of time being unemployed, health history, not knowing somebody, etc. Fools with no direct knowledge of this, sometimes call these excuses. Those who talk from experience know better.

LOL, "Those who talk from experience know better." Now that you can't top me on. There are also job postings everywhere. Start at the bottom and work your way up. But don't say there are no jobs. You're obviously not looking, there are lots of them.

 

[kaz]

Welcome to Fantasy Island

Ecnomics is anything you want it to be

A liberal chastising someone for not grasping economics, OK, that made me laugh...

Anyone who is serious about wanting a job could get one. Maybe not paying what they want, maybe they need to work harder and care more about their job. But no one has an excuse not to be able to get one.

You are confusing what one person is capable of accomplishing and what 30 million people are capable of accomplishing. One person can hustle to put himself above the rest, 30 million is the rest

One person can achieve through gumption, for 30 million to succeed you need economic change.

Bull, there is no limit to the size of the economy. Everyone who is absorbed other than in a government job is creating economic value and making room for the others.

 

[rightwinger]

A liberal chastising someone for not grasping economics, OK, that made me laugh...

Anyone who is serious about wanting a job could get one. Maybe not paying what they want, maybe they need to work harder and care more about their job. But no one has an excuse not to be able to get one.

You are confusing what one person is capable of accomplishing and what 30 million people are capable of accomplishing. One person can hustle to put himself above the rest, 30 million is the rest

One person can achieve through gumption, for 30 million to succeed you need economic change.

No, you need those 30m to learn gumption. It's not about putting yourself over others it's about putting work over being lazy.

This is why I have so little respect for today's conservatives

The willingness to call 30 million people lazy, freeloaders and deadbeats

30 million people need some type of government assistance because of historically low wages. They are working harder, they are more productive......the profits are just not trickling down

 

[kaz]

What makes you think the current employees wouldn't earn the higher wage? Now they would have more incentive to do a good job. Now they might get my business.

You've obviously never managed anyone in your life, it doesn't work that way. No one works harder because they are paid more and no one who has ever managed anyone would say that.

You can hire a lot more reliable employee in the $10-$12 range than minimum wage. And you can hire a lot better employee than that when you get to $15 an hour. So obviously Walmart paying more will hire better employees and the ones now are going to be on the street.

So egain, how did you help them exactly?

I disagree. Now they have a better job worth holding onto. I have manages people, not sure what you have managed.

I've spent my career in management, management consulting and then as a business owner, and what makes sense to you is irrelevant. That doesn't happen in real life. In real life, people are paid what they decide to be worth, they never, ever rise to the level of what you pay them. As I said, you've obviously never managed anyone.

 

[kaz]

Those people have made the Walton's the richest family in the world.

Those bastards! That's disgusting!

Disgusting is them getting extremely poor wages in return.

Actually, we know they pay good wages because they have so many employees. Each one of those employees decided that the Walmart wage was better than any other job opportunity they had. No one took Walmart when they had a better offer. For an employer to be able to hire and retain that many employees is proof they are paying good wages and fair wages.

 

[kaz]

You are confusing what one person is capable of accomplishing and what 30 million people are capable of accomplishing. One person can hustle to put himself above the rest, 30 million is the rest

One person can achieve through gumption, for 30 million to succeed you need economic change.

No, you need those 30m to learn gumption. It's not about putting yourself over others it's about putting work over being lazy.

This is why I have so little respect for today's conservatives

The willingness to call 30 million people lazy, freeloaders and deadbeats

30 million people need some type of government assistance because of historically low wages. They are working harder, they are more productive......the profits are just not trickling down

Those people should take any job they can get, work hard, care about their job and work their way up. Not sit on their duffs and wait for a job they feel is worthy of them.

 

[rightwinger]

A liberal chastising someone for not grasping economics, OK, that made me laugh...

Anyone who is serious about wanting a job could get one. Maybe not paying what they want, maybe they need to work harder and care more about their job. But no one has an excuse not to be able to get one.

You are confusing what one person is capable of accomplishing and what 30 million people are capable of accomplishing. One person can hustle to put himself above the rest, 30 million is the rest

One person can achieve through gumption, for 30 million to succeed you need economic change.

Bull, there is no limit to the size of the economy. Everyone who is absorbed other than in a government job is creating economic value and making room for the others.

Very true. And when the economy expands or contracts people in different economic levels are affected differently. In this case, those in the lower working classes were left out of the economic recovery. It is not for lack of effort or gumption.

 

[rightwinger]

No, you need those 30m to learn gumption. It's not about putting yourself over others it's about putting work over being lazy.

This is why I have so little respect for today's conservatives

The willingness to call 30 million people lazy, freeloaders and deadbeats

30 million people need some type of government assistance because of historically low wages. They are working harder, they are more productive......the profits are just not trickling down

Those people should take any job they can get, work hard, care about their job and work their way up. Not sit on their duffs and wait for a job they feel is worthy of them.

So you also believe that 30 million Americans are just fucking lazy

 

[RKMBrown]

You are confusing what one person is capable of accomplishing and what 30 million people are capable of accomplishing. One person can hustle to put himself above the rest, 30 million is the rest

One person can achieve through gumption, for 30 million to succeed you need economic change.

Bull, there is no limit to the size of the economy. Everyone who is absorbed other than in a government job is creating economic value and making room for the others.

Very true. And when the economy expands or contracts people in different economic levels are affected differently. In this case, those in the lower working classes were left out of the economic recovery. It is not for lack of effort or gumption.

You say that like your talking about yourself. Who do you know that is in poverty and can't get out even with effort and gumption? I don't get it. Again I've never known someone in poverty that wasn't there by choice. Not talking about people who need it like folks on cancer treatments or things like that. I'm sure some of the 30mil have some sort of real reason, and not just lame excuses. I'm talking about the people who can work, have the ability, and just choose to lay around making up excuses.

Only half the country isn't retired or a kid in school, so you are talking about roughly 1 in 5 Americans (this 30m) who have some reason or excuse.

 

[rightwinger]

Bull, there is no limit to the size of the economy. Everyone who is absorbed other than in a government job is creating economic value and making room for the others.

Very true. And when the economy expands or contracts people in different economic levels are affected differently. In this case, those in the lower working classes were left out of the economic recovery. It is not for lack of effort or gumption.

You say that like your talking about yourself. Who do you know that is in poverty and can't get out even with effort and gumption? I don't get it. Again I've never known someone in poverty that wasn't there by choice. Not talking about people who need it like folks on cancer treatments or things like that. I'm sure some of the 30mil have some sort of real reason, and not just lame excuses. I'm talking about the people who can work, have the ability, and just choose to lay around making up excuses.

Only half the country isn't retired or a kid in school, so you are talking about roughly 1 in 5 Americans (this 30m) who have some reason or excuse.

God are you a sick fuck. Embarrassing that you call yourself an American

 

[Zmrzlina]

When a firm pays their employees so little that the employees are qualified to receive assistance from the state, then that firm is passing on the costs of business onto the state and the tax payer.

 

[kaz]

You are confusing what one person is capable of accomplishing and what 30 million people are capable of accomplishing. One person can hustle to put himself above the rest, 30 million is the rest

One person can achieve through gumption, for 30 million to succeed you need economic change.

Bull, there is no limit to the size of the economy. Everyone who is absorbed other than in a government job is creating economic value and making room for the others.

Very true. And when the economy expands or contracts people in different economic levels are affected differently. In this case, those in the lower working classes were left out of the economic recovery. It is not for lack of effort or gumption.

So in every company I've worked for, the higher you are the harder and longer you work. The people on the way up also work longer and harder. The hourly workers punch the clock and are out of the building 5 minutes after their shift ends. They volunteer for nothing, don't train unless they are paid for it.

You can call it what you want, but it is definitely for lower effort, though not necessarily lack of effort. Liberals are so black and white.

 

[kaz]

This is why I have so little respect for today's conservatives

The willingness to call 30 million people lazy, freeloaders and deadbeats

30 million people need some type of government assistance because of historically low wages. They are working harder, they are more productive......the profits are just not trickling down

Those people should take any job they can get, work hard, care about their job and work their way up. Not sit on their duffs and wait for a job they feel is worthy of them.

So you also believe that 30 million Americans are just fucking lazy

I realize as a liberal you like boiling everything down to black and white, but my answer was a lot more comprehensive than the black and white answer you're looking for.

 

[RKMBrown]

Very true. And when the economy expands or contracts people in different economic levels are affected differently. In this case, those in the lower working classes were left out of the economic recovery. It is not for lack of effort or gumption.

You say that like your talking about yourself. Who do you know that is in poverty and can't get out even with effort and gumption? I don't get it. Again I've never known someone in poverty that wasn't there by choice. Not talking about people who need it like folks on cancer treatments or things like that. I'm sure some of the 30mil have some sort of real reason, and not just lame excuses. I'm talking about the people who can work, have the ability, and just choose to lay around making up excuses.

Only half the country isn't retired or a kid in school, so you are talking about roughly 1 in 5 Americans (this 30m) who have some reason or excuse.

God are you a sick fuck. Embarrassing that you call yourself an American

Are you really trying to say that to be American is to coddle lazy useless couch potatoes?

 

[kaz]

Very true. And when the economy expands or contracts people in different economic levels are affected differently. In this case, those in the lower working classes were left out of the economic recovery. It is not for lack of effort or gumption.

You say that like your talking about yourself. Who do you know that is in poverty and can't get out even with effort and gumption? I don't get it. Again I've never known someone in poverty that wasn't there by choice. Not talking about people who need it like folks on cancer treatments or things like that. I'm sure some of the 30mil have some sort of real reason, and not just lame excuses. I'm talking about the people who can work, have the ability, and just choose to lay around making up excuses.

Only half the country isn't retired or a kid in school, so you are talking about roughly 1 in 5 Americans (this 30m) who have some reason or excuse.

God are you a sick fuck. Embarrassing that you call yourself an American

True Americans mail it in every day like you do, right big guy? Who are we to work hard and get ahead and then expect others to take responsibility for themselves? It just isn't right...

 

[kaz]

You say that like your talking about yourself. Who do you know that is in poverty and can't get out even with effort and gumption? I don't get it. Again I've never known someone in poverty that wasn't there by choice. Not talking about people who need it like folks on cancer treatments or things like that. I'm sure some of the 30mil have some sort of real reason, and not just lame excuses. I'm talking about the people who can work, have the ability, and just choose to lay around making up excuses.

Only half the country isn't retired or a kid in school, so you are talking about roughly 1 in 5 Americans (this 30m) who have some reason or excuse.

God are you a sick fuck. Embarrassing that you call yourself an American

Are you really trying to say that to be American is to coddle lazy ass loosers?

That's exactly what he's saying. Those of us who work hard are the freaks to be scorned, there's something wrong with us. People who are like him, do the least every day they can get away with are the normal ones.

 

[RKMBrown]

God are you a sick fuck. Embarrassing that you call yourself an American

Are you really trying to say that to be American is to coddle lazy ass loosers?

That's exactly what he's saying. Those of us who work hard are the freaks to be scorned, there's something wrong with us. People who are like him, do the least every day they can get away with are the normal ones.

That's what I thought, I'd just never heard being a good for nothing lazy bum as being an American trait. Socialist trait, yes. But not American.