Reagan's legacy

[MtnBiker]

Originally posted by Socrates

It's simply true that Reagan did untold harm to the US economy by being so fiscally irresponsible, and that is his legacy.

You are in the distinct minority of that opinion. But oh well, you are entitled to have such an opinion as ineffective as it is.

 

[Annie]

Originally posted by Socrates
Insein said, "Perhaps you need to review history then. An estimated 40 million people were killed under Communist Rule in Soviet Russia from the 1940's upto the 1980's."

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Almost all of those murdered by the government in the Soviet Union were murdered by Stalin, who died way before Reagan took office. You think he deserves credit for putting an end to Stalinist practices even though they ended before he was president? You truly are insein.

You need to read Orwell's 1984, particularly the part about doublespeak, since you, the master of revisionist history, love to accuse others of the sins you commit.

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While many more died under the paranoid Stalin, life was not that great post Stalin either:

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/archives/gula.html

 

[Socrates]

Mtnbiker said, "You are in the distinct minority of that opinion."
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Maybe the majority agrees with me and maybe they don't, but it's irrelevant. You can't refute what someone says by appealing to the opinion of the masses. Majority opinion is very often wrong. And in this case, most people aren't even aware of the relevant facts. For example, very few people realize that 14% of their tax money pays only for interest on Reagan's debt.

 

[MtnBiker]

I knew that with the passing of Reagan this past week and all of the attention he would be receiving that there would be many to bring into question his presidency. Go ahead try to diminish Reagan's greatness, it just isn't going to happen.

 

[Annie]

Here, here!

 

[MtnBiker]

BTW Socrates, there is a quote button at the bottom right of all posts. Click on that to quote another post.

 

[Socrates]

Originally posted by MtnBiker
BTW Socrates, there is a quote button at the bottom right of all posts. Click on that to quote another post.

Thanks

 

[MtnBiker]

Hey it worked.

 

[Socrates]

Originally posted by MtnBiker
I knew that with the passing of Reagan this past week and all of the attention he would be receiving that there would be many to bring into question his presidency. Go ahead try to diminish Reagan's greatness, it just isn't going to happen.

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It's fine to have heros and to have a mythical view him or her. We all do it; it must serve some human need. But for those who want to know the truth, facts become relevant; and not just the pleasant facts.

It is a fact that Reagan left us a huge debt and that that debt has harmed our economy for almost 20 years now. Your response did not address this fact. It seems that you're more interested in maintaining your mythical view of "his greatness", and leaving all unpleasant facts out of it.

 

[MtnBiker]

Again, you are in the minority of any such Reagan myth.

 

[Socrates]

Originally posted by MtnBiker
Again, you are in the minority of any such Reagan myth.

And again, truth isn't determined by majority opinion.

 

[Annie]

Originally posted by Socrates
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It's fine to have heros and to have a mythical view him or her. We all do it; it must serve some human need. But for those who want to know the truth, facts become relevant; and not just the pleasant facts.

It is a fact that Reagan left us a huge debt and that that debt has harmed our economy for almost 20 years now. Your response did not address this fact. It seems that you're more interested in maintaining your mythical view of "his greatness", and leaving all unpleasant facts out of it.

Ok, what is the amount that Reagan left? The government has trouble keeping track of these numbers, but give us something to work with please.

 

[MtnBiker]

Originally posted by Socrates
And again, truth isn't determined by majority opinion.

You must then believe that a majority of people are not capable of correctly processing information and thus coming to the wrong conclusion and that you who holds a minorty position has some greater ability to do so.

 

[OCA]

*sigh* *shrug* I don't know, I guess demos don't want to face the truth, I mean what i'm about to link them to is irrefuteable truth but they will continue to black out and rewrite history because they are jealous that they cannot produce someone as loved and popular as Reagan.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4204&highlight=reaganomics

The simple, plain and irrefuteable truth about the deficit is that in the first few years of Reagan's tax cuts the Congress, heavily Democratic and led by the loser Tip O'Neill did not adjust for the initial lower revenues by lowering spending but in fact did just the opposite they increased spending exorbitantly resulting in the deficit. Yes that is a fact, Democrats were at fault for the deficit, the president spends nothing, Congress is responsible for appropriating funds. This is something that Demos have been repeating for 15 years because they believe that Americans are basically stupid and will not check them on their lies. Sorry, people are on to the lying and scandalous left.

Read and enjoy leftist revisionists.

 

[Jimmyeatworld]

Response:

Jimmy, I never said the economy was in good shape at the end of the 1970s. So, I'm not sure who you think you are refuting.

What I did say, and what is true, is that Reagan's main legacy is that he left the US with a crushing national debt.

The citizens of the US are paying about 250 million dollars per year of interest on the debt. That's about 14% of all the taxes we pay. My God, what a tax cut we could actually afford if we weren't still paying so much for Reagan's fiscal irresponsibility. People think that the Iraq war is expensive if it costs 100 million a year. Hell, that's less than half of what we pay every year for Reagan's debt.

We could almost pay for the entire military with the money we spend just paying interest on the debt.

Not only that, when the government borrows this amount of money, it sucks money out of the economy that would otherwise be invested in private companies. So, it hurts no only the taxpayer but also impedes economic growth as well. This is all mainstream economics.

It's simply true that Reagan did untold harm to the US economy by being so fiscally irresponsible, and that is his legacy. [/B][/QUOTE]

I am refuting your entire opinion about the ecomony in the Reagan years. The economy during the Carter administration, to put it in lamens terms, sucked ass. My point is that I don't see how anyone who lived through that consider the economy bad during the Reagan years. It really doesn't surprise me, however, considering the skewed look so many have at history.

 

[Socrates]

Originally posted by MtnBiker
You must then believe that a majority of people are not capable of correctly processing information and thus coming to the wrong conclusion and that you who holds a minorty position has some greater ability to do so.

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If you believe that majority opinion dictates what the truth is, then you must believe that the world was flat for thousands of years since most people believed that. You must also think that slavery was perfectly moral for centuries since most people believed that.

You must also believe that when the majority view changes, then the truth changes.

I guess since the majority of Americans thought that Al Gore would be a better president than Bush, that means that Al Gore would have been a better president (since the majority view determines what's true). Or is the majority of people in the whole world that determines the truth? If this is the case, then Christianity is false since most people believe it's false.

Majorities get things wrong all the time. Minority opinions are very often correct. So, if one wants to know the truth, one must use evidence and rational argument, not simply an appeal to what a particular majority thinks.

 

[Socrates]

Originally posted by OCA
*sigh* *shrug* I don't know, I guess demos don't want to face the truth, I mean what i'm about to link them to is irrefuteable truth but they will continue to black out and rewrite history because they are jealous that they cannot produce someone as loved and popular as Reagan.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4204&highlight=reaganomics

The simple, plain and irrefuteable truth about the deficit is that in the first few years of Reagan's tax cuts the Congress, heavily Democratic and led by the loser Tip O'Neill did not adjust for the initial lower revenues by lowering spending but in fact did just the opposite they increased spending exorbitantly resulting in the deficit. Yes that is a fact, Democrats were at fault for the deficit, the president spends nothing, Congress is responsible for appropriating funds. This is something that Demos have been repeating for 15 years because they believe that Americans are basically stupid and will not check them on their lies. Sorry, people are on to the lying and scandalous left.

Read and enjoy leftist revisionists.

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When you make a mistake, it's natural to try to blame someone else. Like all presidents, Reagan proposed his budget to Congress and he got most of what he wanted and he signed it. He could have vetoed it (them), but he didn't. Reagan had a huge mandate when he took office, and he is absolutely responsible for the budgets that he came up with and then signed into law.

Sorry that he made such big mistakes, I really am. After all, I'm still paying for his debts.

Bush likes to say we need more personal responsibility in this country. I agree. Stop denying that Reagan was responsible for his own budgets.

 

[Socrates]

I suppose that the Democrats are responsible for the largest deficit in history that is happening right now also, despite the fact that Republicans control the presidency and both houses of Congress.

Conservatives need to learn to take responsiblity for their failures, and stop blaming Democrats who aren't even in power when they make their policies.

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by Socrates
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When you make a mistake, it's natural to try to blame someone else. Like all presidents, Reagan proposed his budget to Congress and he got most of what he wanted and he signed it. He could have vetoed it (them), but he didn't. Reagan had a huge mandate when he took office, and he is absolutely responsible for the budgets that he came up with and then signed into law.

Sorry that he made such big mistakes, I really am. After all, I'm still paying for his debts.

Bush likes to say we need more personal responsibility in this country. I agree. Stop denying that Reagan was responsible for his own budgets.

Well the facts stand on their own. I mean go to any independent site such as OMB and the same thing will be said. Its all right there recorded in history, tax cuts spark an economy and only out of control spending creates deficits, and who is the party of out of control spending I wonder?

The budget came to Reagan, he signed it knowing what would happen but not wanting to shut down the government or create a budget standoff or crisis and he knew that Americans desperately needed the tax cuts what with the complete devastation laid upon Americans by Jimmy Carter and the Democrats, if he didn't sign the vindictive Democrats would've taken away the tax cuts and that would've been ruinous, so he signed with the evil. Hell he probably had the foresight to see exactly what was going to happen down the road, a history revisionist attack on his legacy by Democrats, for shame!

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by Socrates
I suppose that the Democrats are responsible for the largest deficit in history that is happening right now also, despite the fact that Republicans control the presidency and both houses of Congress.

Conservatives need to learn to take responsiblity for their failures, and stop blaming Democrats who aren't even in power when they make their policies.

Little thing called a War On Terror that costs money. I could give two shits less about the deficit right now. What matters though is Bush gave tax relief from the OPPRESSIVE AND CRIMINAL tax rates that were imposed under Bubba. They weren't much but they were a start.