Red Letter Christianity divergence....Chuckt

[PostmodernProph]

No. These are cut and paste Christians.
They follow the verses they want and ignore the verses they don't want using human reasoning.
They have the appearance of following the word but they aren't.

overly broad generalization.....perhaps you can find examples, but I can certainly find as many examples within the traditional church as well....

 

[PostmodernProph]

Not Emerging - YouTube

^^^What he said^^^

A common sense answer. There really shouldn't be anything at all complicated about Christianity and God's will in our lives.

except he doesn't accurately describe the emerging church.....all he's describing is liberalism.....I can demonstrate the exact same thing among the German theologians of the 1930s who raised the issue of "historical Jesus" and it would have nothing to do with the emerging church......

 

[PostmodernProph]

Having seen the video clips above I can say without a doubt that "the emerging church" idea IS dangerous. The "Church" of Jesus Christ has been around since the time of Christ. It "emerged" at that time. The tenets of Christ's gospel are the same today as they were then.

then the clips have proved themselves dangerous.....for misrepresenting the emergent church.....

 

[thebrucebeat]

There are four streams of the Emergent Church and one of them is heretical.

actually I think there are thousands of streams.....for one thing, it is anathema to capitalize it.....Emergent Church.....the whole concept behind the emergent church is to free religion from modernism, including modernism's tendency to turn everything into absolutes that need capitalization.....

now, what is the heresy you see in one of the streams of the emergent church?.....

It is the start of an apostasy movement. Why is that? I remember the news articles where Rick Warren told the church to change or die. Why would that be?

I remember my grandmothers and they basically talked about the days before television and radio. There wasn't an abundance of books. What did people read by candlelight? They read the Bible.

My grandmother came from an era where they didn't have rock star concerts. How much are concert tickets today? And people can't throw that in the offering plate. Is it an idol? I think they are.

She came through the depression where people didn't have food to eat and I think the big complaint back then was that people weren't thankful.

There was a day and it might have stopped in the 40's and 50's but people basically memorized their Bible.

Now you can't get people to church so Christians got depressed and now you got these guys selling their wares and getting you to buy their books. I toured the offices at one church and they have leather bound copies of the Purpose Driven Life.

So back to this Emergent Church stuff. They're saying that you have to become relevant to bring people to Jesus. Christians are now on the way out of Church because we're now labeled "joy busters". So this is an abandoning of Christianity in favor of postmodernism because they're playing a game where Sunday School teachers are no longer called Suday School teachers but they are now called "Shadowers".

Apostasy (from Greek αποστασία, meaning a defection or revolt, from απο, apo, "away, apart", στασις, stasis, "standing") is a term generally employed to describe the formal abandonment or renunciation of one's religion, especially if the motive is deemed unworthy.

Appendix:Glossary of Jewish terms - Wiktionary

The basis for this is that Church is no longer for Christians but it is now tailored for the non-Christian. Why? Because the way we have done things are deemed unworthy.

2 Peter 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
l2 Peter 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

They stopped following the church model and they made church into a consumer driven business so they now show movies in church and you are now the merchandise. That is why megachurches are spending more money on themselves and less on evangelism.

I get the definition "stories" from "feigned words" and "make merchandise of you" means they are selling you. One large mega church pastor tells people to tell others their story. I say, "good emotional story" but it is worthless because it is not the gospel and it doesn't tell people how to get saved and people are forgetting what it means to be Christian because there is no discipline because they don't teach. It is the movie church or the Reader's Digest church. It doesn't get me through my day.

People are going to get fed up with that because when they face divorce or when they face depression or life's problems, there isn't a pastor there to help them with Biblical teaching. I know an emergent church and two people committed suicide in that church and the pastor won't tell anyone because it is bad for business. They don't feel responsible for the sheep and they tell us to do the work while forsaking doing it themselves.

Contrast that with:

Hebrews 13:17 Have confidence in your leaders and submit to their authority, because they keep watch over you as those who must give an account. Do this so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no benefit to you.

Do they act like they have to give an account? No. They don't want you to know who committed suicide in their church so they don't talk about it and the whole services for the next six months are scheduled around a plan called "Keep them happy".

Virtually every mega-church in this country is not a "emergent church" but rather a card carrying member of the NAE. The theology is very conservative and evangelical even though the sales pitch has been modernized. Almost every single one. Many lean heavily on the prosperity doctrine as it is essentially a Ponzi scheme, promising the more you give the more you'll get.
Most of the praise and worship bands and the Christian rock bands are conservative evangelical.

Here's how Wiki describes the emerging church....

The emerging church is a Christian movement of the late 20th and early 21st centuries that crosses a number of theological boundaries: participants are described as Protestant, post-Protestant, evangelical,[1] post-evangelical, liberal, post-liberal, conservative, post-conservative, anabaptist, adventist,[2] reformed, charismatic, neocharismatic, and post-charismatic. Emerging churches can be found throughout the globe, predominantly in North America, Western Europe, Australia, New Zealand, and Africa. Some attend local independent churches or house churches[3][4][5] while others worship in traditional Christian denominations. Proponents believe the movement transcends such "modernist" labels of "conservative" and "liberal," calling the movement a "conversation" to emphasize its developing and decentralized nature, its vast range of standpoints, and its commitment to dialogue. Participants seek to live their faith in what they believe to be a "postmodern" society. What those involved in the conversation mostly agree on is their disillusionment with the organized and institutional church and their support for the deconstruction of modern Christian worship, modern evangelism, and the nature of modern Christian community.

The mega-churches are not places for the "conversation". They are almost all rigidly doctrinal, with very few exceptions.

 

[thebrucebeat]

The church has existed since the time of Christ and has been handed down or maintained through the ages. What's happening today isn't an "emerging" church but a "great falling away" from the church. What IS emerging is a New Age philosophy posing as a religious authority. It's "another Christ" and "another Gospel."

2 Corinthians 11:4, "For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him."

Beware!!

1 Peter 5:8, "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:"

And all the while using Christ's recorded words as their marching orders.
How dare they!

 

[thebrucebeat]

4 Lanes of the Emerging Church - YouTube

lol dude.....you say you don't like the emergent church because one of the lanes is heresy......did you notice all four lanes were "emergent" and he liked three of them?......the one he didn't like was "emergent liberals"......

the problem isn't that they were emergent......the problem was they were liberals......

so don't condemn the emergent church....condemn the liberal church.....

Though misguided, in my mind, that would at least be honest of him, wouldn't it?

 

[Avatar4321]

MAybe the red highlights on the words spoken by Christ in the NT?

So basically focusing solely on what Christ said in the Gospels and ignoring what God says everywhere else?

Sincerely information seeking question:

Where do christ's words come from?
Where are they written?

God.
The scriptures.

 

[DriftingSand]

The church has existed since the time of Christ and has been handed down or maintained through the ages. What's happening today isn't an "emerging" church but a "great falling away" from the church. What IS emerging is a New Age philosophy posing as a religious authority. It's "another Christ" and "another Gospel."

2 Corinthians 11:4, "For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him."

Beware!!

1 Peter 5:8, "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:"

And all the while using Christ's recorded words as their marching orders.
How dare they!

Who are you talking about? If you mean the Apostles I think they "marched" to Christ's drum out of love. If you ever have a chance to study the lives of the Apostles after Christ's death, resurrection, and ascension you would know that they were non-violent men who went about doing charitable things and preaching the gospel of Christ. You will also find that most of them died violent and painful deaths. John was tortured and exiled to the isle of Patmos where he likely died of old age.

 

[SmedlyButler]

Christianity has never been a monolithic structure with it's teachings never-changing. It was 300 years after the death of Jesus before the church "Fathers" even reached a compromise on the Divine nature of Christ. And even this compromise has been a subject of theological argument since. The Roman Emperor Constantine brought them together in Nicea to try to unify the muddled and conflicting tenets of his empire's young religion. To him it was more about politics than religion.

It wasn't until 367 AD that the Athanasius produced the list of 66 books recognized now as canonical. There are dozens of scriptural texts that were left off the list. I'm sure most of you know about the dead sea scrolls that included such books as the Gospel of Thomas and the Book of Enoch.

The Catholic church got enormously wealthy by basically inventing Purgatory and selling indulgences to ease the sins that sent you there.

Which brings up the Reformation, now that was "emergence" on steroids. There really are endless examples of Christian religions adapting and changing doctrine and rites to attract new converts or hold on to wavering "believers".

I won't talk about Mormonism other than to say "wow, now there's a wild example of an emergent "Christianity".

I read one of the linked articles on "red letter Christianity" and to me, as an atheist, it looks a lot more appealing than another emerging and fast growing sect, "Prosperity Gospel". Unless of course I wanted to become a preacher and get rich quick.

I guess all I'm saying is that to an outsider it looks like a tempest in a teapot.

 

[thebrucebeat]

The church has existed since the time of Christ and has been handed down or maintained through the ages. What's happening today isn't an "emerging" church but a "great falling away" from the church. What IS emerging is a New Age philosophy posing as a religious authority. It's "another Christ" and "another Gospel."

2 Corinthians 11:4, "For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him."

Beware!!

1 Peter 5:8, "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:"

And all the while using Christ's recorded words as their marching orders.
How dare they!

Who are you talking about? If you mean the Apostles I think they "marched" to Christ's drum out of love. If you ever have a chance to study the lives of the Apostles after Christ's death, resurrection, and ascension you would know that they were non-violent men who went about doing charitable things and preaching the gospel of Christ. You will also find that most of them died violent and painful deaths. John was tortured and exiled to the isle of Patmos where he likely died of old age.

I was talking about the people of the emerging church. That was what the post was talking about that I was responding to.
Not the apostles or the myths that surrounded their deaths recorded, for the most part, hundreds of years after their passing, with a couple of exceptions.

 

[Chuckt]

there isn't a pastor there to help them with Biblical teaching.

why do you think emerging churches don't have pastors?.....

Did you ever hear of outsourced theology? Someone sits in a room and writes the sermon and you as a pastor can go buy it. When you cut the workload down like that, why would you need the Holy Spirit when you can just buy a sermon? Why pay people to go to seminary or why buy books for a pastor's library when you can just ad lib it?

It is called academic dishonesty. It is also dishonesty with your congregants.

Who elected pastors who don't work at your church to lead the church? How can a pastor that doesn't work at your church oversee the church?

Is it okay to have a morally dishonest person you don't see writing sermons when he or she is a hypocrite?

 

[Chuckt]

10 Signs You May Have Just Entered... The Emergent Church Zone - YouTube

lol....that one's from the Onion, right?....

Have you looked up his credentials?
You can find him on the web.

 

[Chuckt]

4 Lanes of the Emerging Church - YouTube

lol dude.....you say you don't like the emergent church because one of the lanes is heresy......did you notice all four lanes were "emergent" and he liked three of them?......the one he didn't like was "emergent liberals"......

the problem isn't that they were emergent......the problem was they were liberals......

so don't condemn the emergent church....condemn the liberal church.....

Lol. Do you know his history?

 

[DriftingSand]

Christianity has never been a monolithic structure with it's teachings never-changing. It was 300 years after the death of Jesus before the church "Fathers" even reached a compromise on the Divine nature of Christ. And even this compromise has been a subject of theological argument since. The Roman Emperor Constantine brought them together in Nicea to try to unify the muddled and conflicting tenets of his empire's young religion. To him it was more about politics than religion.

It wasn't until 367 AD that the Athanasius produced the list of 66 books recognized now as canonical. There are dozens of scriptural texts that were left off the list. I'm sure most of you know about the dead sea scrolls that included such books as the Gospel of Thomas and the Book of Enoch.

The Catholic church got enormously wealthy by basically inventing Purgatory and selling indulgences to ease the sins that sent you there.

Which brings up the Reformation, now that was "emergence" on steroids. There really are endless examples of Christian religions adapting and changing doctrine and rites to attract new converts or hold on to wavering "believers".

I won't talk about Mormonism other than to say "wow, now there's a wild example of an emergent "Christianity".

I read one of the linked articles on "red letter Christianity" and to me, as an atheist, it looks a lot more appealing than another emerging and fast growing sect, "Prosperity Gospel". Unless of course I wanted to become a preacher and get rich quick.

I guess all I'm saying is that to an outsider it looks like a tempest in a teapot.

Some truth to your post but one thing is certain: the basic tenets and teachings of New Testament Christianity are the same today as they were 2000 years ago.

Jesus Christ was, has been, and shall ever be the door to God's Kingdom (from a Christian's perspective). Sin then is sin now. Sins don't morph into acceptable life choices just because we're in the 21st century.

True, various Church rituals have ebbed and flowed throughout the centuries but rituals have never been a Christian requirement. So it's mankind's leadership over the Church that has changed but the New Testament tenets of truth remain steadfast and true.

 

[DriftingSand]

Having seen the video clips above I can say without a doubt that "the emerging church" idea IS dangerous. The "Church" of Jesus Christ has been around since the time of Christ. It "emerged" at that time. The tenets of Christ's gospel are the same today as they were then.

then the clips have proved themselves dangerous.....for misrepresenting the emergent church.....

I guess it boils down to perspective. If the "emergent church" teaches the tenets of the New Testament then it's fine with me. If the "emergent church" is teaching something contrary to the New Testament then it's "another gospel" that Christ and the Apostles warned us to avoid.

 

[Iceweasel]

Some truth to your post but one thing is certain: the basic tenets and teachings of New Testament Christianity are the same today as they were 2000 years ago.

That isn't true. Even after the catholic (small c, universal church) canonized select books there were disagreements to the point of it becoming a state religion and killing opposing ideas. Some of it is preserved in early church fathers' responses since the originals were considered heresy and not preserved. Today everything exists from literal fundamentalism to liberal spirituality.

Jesus Christ was, has been, and shall ever be the door to God's Kingdom (from a Christian's perspective). Sin then is sin now. Sins don't morph into acceptable life choices just because we're in the 21st century.

It was not considered to be sinful to own a slave but most would consider so now. Women were to be covered and not speak out in church, today, not so much. Remarriage (according to Jesus) was a sin, today, not so much.

True, various Church rituals have ebbed and flowed throughout the centuries but rituals have never been a Christian requirement. So it's mankind's leadership over the Church that has changed but the New Testament tenets of truth remain steadfast and true.

Mankind's leadership determined what was to be in the Bible. The Reformation changed quite a few tenants as do the offshoots.

 

[theliq]

Is the emerging church dangerous? - YouTube

Well this Dick Head may well wish to live in the past in good old Eire,where the clergy BUMMED AND RAPED AT WILL children.

NO THANKS

 

[PostmodernProph]

why do you think emerging churches don't have pastors?.....

Did you ever hear of outsourced theology? Someone sits in a room and writes the sermon and you as a pastor can go buy it. When you cut the workload down like that, why would you need the Holy Spirit when you can just buy a sermon? Why pay people to go to seminary or why buy books for a pastor's library when you can just ad lib it?

It is called academic dishonesty. It is also dishonesty with your congregants.

Who elected pastors who don't work at your church to lead the church? How can a pastor that doesn't work at your church oversee the church?

Is it okay to have a morally dishonest person you don't see writing sermons when he or she is a hypocrite?

first of all, there are a lot of responsibilities of a pastor besides writing sermons, pastoral care and leadership prominent among them.....what pastor hasn't heard or read something and said, "my congregation needs to hear that!" and worked it into his sermon, either with accreditation or without........now I don't believe I know anyone that buys sermons, though I expect it may happen.....if it does, I hope they at least know enough to buy one that's theologically sound AND worth the money.....

the point remains, I still am not convinced this is a characteristic of the emerging church.....

 

[PostmodernProph]

10 Signs You May Have Just Entered... The Emergent Church Zone - YouTube

lol....that one's from the Onion, right?....

Have you looked up his credentials?
You can find him on the web.

I don't care about his credentials (or even know who he is to do so)......what he said was absolutely false and ridiculous....

 

[PostmodernProph]

4 Lanes of the Emerging Church - YouTube

lol dude.....you say you don't like the emergent church because one of the lanes is heresy......did you notice all four lanes were "emergent" and he liked three of them?......the one he didn't like was "emergent liberals"......

the problem isn't that they were emergent......the problem was they were liberals......

so don't condemn the emergent church....condemn the liberal church.....

Lol. Do you know his history?

I don't even know his name, but he said he was part of lane three of the emerging church...from listening to the video I assume he's a Reformed Baptist.........apparently from your comments you therefore condemn him since you don't like the emerging church.....I will admit I was a bit puzzled why you then used him as a source.....