Red scare of the 1950's, today we have the racist scare

[Missouri_Mike]

I could agree to that.

So to clarify now that I have more time. The gay couple can get a plain chocolate cake with no mention or design features representing a wedding cake and that's fine. As long as they make them that they don't need to make any further concessions.

I don't see why they couldn't sell them any wedding cake they offer. They shouldn't have to put to guys holding hands on the cake or write Happy Guy Wedding... But a cake is a cake.

Do you think tux shop should be allowed to deny selling a tux to a guy if he is going to use it in a gay wedding?

never never never eat a cake that you had to force someone to make for you

Agreed. Why would you do that? I've been places I'm obviously not welcome and just leave. I'm not going to sue them I just go somewhere else.

Why were you not welcome?

Mostly preppy hipster type restaraunts or bars. I've never been asked to leave but it's pretty obvious they don't think much of the country guy in their establishment. Bad service, crappy table in the back etc.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

From a religious point of view, Homosexuality is an abomination to God.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Is it more or less of an abomination as pre marital sex? Using the lords name in vain? Getting a tattoo?

I'm not here to make religious calls. All I am saying is how people of religion feel. As for the other things you mentioned, those are personal decisions and doesn't involve forcing people to be part of your practices.

My other examples can be applied. Should people be allowed to deny service to single mothers because they had premarital sex? That is also a sin or an abomination as you put it. See where this can go?

Again, apples and oranges.

Christian religions teach forgiveness because they follow the path of Jesus. We are taught that everybody sins, it's the redemption that's more important.

In other words, I can't go to confession at a Catholic church and ask the priest to ask God for forgiveness because I plan to rape a woman. I can ask God for forgiveness after the assault because I felt guilt, but you cannot get forgiveness beforehand like a gift card.

When a gay person asks a baker to create a cake for his gay wedding, he is saying that he plans on participating in a ritual against the religion of the baker, and wants the baker to participate as well. Unlike buying a tux where the shop is just the middle man in the transaction, baking a cake is more creative because it starts from scratch and requires a lot of art and work. The baker is therefore involved in the wedding just like a photographer, a florist, or the person that rents them the hall.

Just stop. These people aren't discriminating because their religion tells them to, they do it because they hate fags.

Bakery Will Do Pagan, Cloning, and Divorce Cakes But Not Gay Weddings

Masterpiece Cakeshop, Colorado Bakery, Agrees To 'Dog Wedding' Cake Despite Turning Away Gays | HuffPost

So gay weddings can be treated like a joke with all of the seriousness of a dog wedding?

 

[Seawytch]

Is it more or less of an abomination as pre marital sex? Using the lords name in vain? Getting a tattoo?

I'm not here to make religious calls. All I am saying is how people of religion feel. As for the other things you mentioned, those are personal decisions and doesn't involve forcing people to be part of your practices.

My other examples can be applied. Should people be allowed to deny service to single mothers because they had premarital sex? That is also a sin or an abomination as you put it. See where this can go?

Again, apples and oranges.

Christian religions teach forgiveness because they follow the path of Jesus. We are taught that everybody sins, it's the redemption that's more important.

In other words, I can't go to confession at a Catholic church and ask the priest to ask God for forgiveness because I plan to rape a woman. I can ask God for forgiveness after the assault because I felt guilt, but you cannot get forgiveness beforehand like a gift card.

When a gay person asks a baker to create a cake for his gay wedding, he is saying that he plans on participating in a ritual against the religion of the baker, and wants the baker to participate as well. Unlike buying a tux where the shop is just the middle man in the transaction, baking a cake is more creative because it starts from scratch and requires a lot of art and work. The baker is therefore involved in the wedding just like a photographer, a florist, or the person that rents them the hall.

Just stop. These people aren't discriminating because their religion tells them to, they do it because they hate fags.

Bakery Will Do Pagan, Cloning, and Divorce Cakes But Not Gay Weddings

Masterpiece Cakeshop, Colorado Bakery, Agrees To 'Dog Wedding' Cake Despite Turning Away Gays | HuffPost

So gay weddings can be treated like a joke with all of the seriousness of a dog wedding?

Their hypocrisy is funny. It just proves it's not about religion, but about hating gays... and that makes the baby Jesus cry.

 

[Slade3200]

I could agree to that.

So to clarify now that I have more time. The gay couple can get a plain chocolate cake with no mention or design features representing a wedding cake and that's fine. As long as they make them that they don't need to make any further concessions.

I don't see why they couldn't sell them any wedding cake they offer. They shouldn't have to put to guys holding hands on the cake or write Happy Guy Wedding... But a cake is a cake.

Do you think tux shop should be allowed to deny selling a tux to a guy if he is going to use it in a gay wedding?

So you have to make the cake just not finish it.

I think a tux shop should be able to show two guys gating it up in their place the door. I also think other shops should welcome it.

You're not answering my question. I didn't say anything about two guys gating it up in a tux shop. I said should the tux shop be able to say "no sale" to a gay guy because he is wanting the suit for his wedding?

Behavior means a lot don't you think? Two guys go in and get fitted for tuxes. No big deal. If they go in flaming the gay around like a couple queens that could be a problem.

Absolutely, businesses can have dress codes and they can deny customers for being disruptive, aggressive or obscene. That's not really what this discussion is about. We are talking about a businesses right to discriminate because of who the customer is, not what they are doing

 

[Slade3200]

So to clarify now that I have more time. The gay couple can get a plain chocolate cake with no mention or design features representing a wedding cake and that's fine. As long as they make them that they don't need to make any further concessions.

I don't see why they couldn't sell them any wedding cake they offer. They shouldn't have to put to guys holding hands on the cake or write Happy Guy Wedding... But a cake is a cake.

Do you think tux shop should be allowed to deny selling a tux to a guy if he is going to use it in a gay wedding?

never never never eat a cake that you had to force someone to make for you

Agreed. Why would you do that? I've been places I'm obviously not welcome and just leave. I'm not going to sue them I just go somewhere else.

Why were you not welcome?

Mostly preppy hipster type restaraunts or bars. I've never been asked to leave but it's pretty obvious they don't think much of the country guy in their establishment. Bad service, crappy table in the back etc.

That is a very different situation than what we are talking about. I think you know that

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

From a religious point of view, Homosexuality is an abomination to God.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Is it more or less of an abomination as pre marital sex? Using the lords name in vain? Getting a tattoo?

I'm not here to make religious calls. All I am saying is how people of religion feel. As for the other things you mentioned, those are personal decisions and doesn't involve forcing people to be part of your practices.

My other examples can be applied. Should people be allowed to deny service to single mothers because they had premarital sex? That is also a sin or an abomination as you put it. See where this can go?

Again, apples and oranges.

Christian religions teach forgiveness because they follow the path of Jesus. We are taught that everybody sins, it's the redemption that's more important.

In other words, I can't go to confession at a Catholic church and ask the priest to ask God for forgiveness because I plan to rape a woman. I can ask God for forgiveness after the assault because I felt guilt, but you cannot get forgiveness beforehand like a gift card.

When a gay person asks a baker to create a cake for his gay wedding, he is saying that he plans on participating in a ritual against the religion of the baker, and wants the baker to participate as well. Unlike buying a tux where the shop is just the middle man in the transaction, baking a cake is more creative because it starts from scratch and requires a lot of art and work. The baker is therefore involved in the wedding just like a photographer, a florist, or the person that rents them the hall.

Just stop. These people aren't discriminating because their religion tells them to, they do it because they hate fags.

Bakery Will Do Pagan, Cloning, and Divorce Cakes But Not Gay Weddings

Masterpiece Cakeshop, Colorado Bakery, Agrees To 'Dog Wedding' Cake Despite Turning Away Gays | HuffPost

Oh, now this is grand. And WTF are The Advocate's anyway? Never heard of them, and there is no real news agency that emulated them as far as I can tell. So allow me to point out some things that you never even thought about; quotes from your articles:

When one of the reporters called and asked if the business could make two identical cakes to help a friend celebrate the grant she received for cloning human stem cells,

A request for a cake to congratulate a friend on her divorce was also happily accepted

Sweet Cakes was even happy to take orders for cakes for a pagan summer solstice fete — complete with a green pentagram decoration — and celebrating babies born out of wedlock.

After being turned away, Schmalz called the bakery and told owner Jack Phillips that she was planning to host a wedding celebration for two dogs.

And then the rest of the article went on to quote this Advocate thing.

Now, as a person who's childhood was being raised in a Catholic family in a Catholic school, I don't recall God ever stating that cloning or divorce was an abomination to God. Dogs marrying each other? Please show me scripture on that one. A Pagan is one who does not believe in your standard religions or rituals.

That aside, I hope you noted what I underlined in these quotes, and that is "they asked." Nowhere did I see them claim that they actually ordered these cakes, paid for them, and picked them up for evidence..........they asked.....

Now ask yourself: if one was trying to prove something, wouldn't they want the evidence to support it? I mean, why did they just ask? Could it be because there is no evidence of making such requests, and there would have been evidence if they actually had these cakes in their possession they "supposedly" requested?

So how do I rate your articles about this bakery?

 

[Seawytch]

Is it more or less of an abomination as pre marital sex? Using the lords name in vain? Getting a tattoo?

I'm not here to make religious calls. All I am saying is how people of religion feel. As for the other things you mentioned, those are personal decisions and doesn't involve forcing people to be part of your practices.

My other examples can be applied. Should people be allowed to deny service to single mothers because they had premarital sex? That is also a sin or an abomination as you put it. See where this can go?

Again, apples and oranges.

Christian religions teach forgiveness because they follow the path of Jesus. We are taught that everybody sins, it's the redemption that's more important.

In other words, I can't go to confession at a Catholic church and ask the priest to ask God for forgiveness because I plan to rape a woman. I can ask God for forgiveness after the assault because I felt guilt, but you cannot get forgiveness beforehand like a gift card.

When a gay person asks a baker to create a cake for his gay wedding, he is saying that he plans on participating in a ritual against the religion of the baker, and wants the baker to participate as well. Unlike buying a tux where the shop is just the middle man in the transaction, baking a cake is more creative because it starts from scratch and requires a lot of art and work. The baker is therefore involved in the wedding just like a photographer, a florist, or the person that rents them the hall.

Just stop. These people aren't discriminating because their religion tells them to, they do it because they hate fags.

Bakery Will Do Pagan, Cloning, and Divorce Cakes But Not Gay Weddings

Masterpiece Cakeshop, Colorado Bakery, Agrees To 'Dog Wedding' Cake Despite Turning Away Gays | HuffPost

Oh, now this is grand. And WTF are The Advocate's anyway? Never heard of them, and there is no real news agency that emulated them as far as I can tell. So allow me to point out some things that you never even thought about; quotes from your articles:

When one of the reporters called and asked if the business could make two identical cakes to help a friend celebrate the grant she received for cloning human stem cells,

A request for a cake to congratulate a friend on her divorce was also happily accepted

Sweet Cakes was even happy to take orders for cakes for a pagan summer solstice fete — complete with a green pentagram decoration — and celebrating babies born out of wedlock.

After being turned away, Schmalz called the bakery and told owner Jack Phillips that she was planning to host a wedding celebration for two dogs.

And then the rest of the article went on to quote this Advocate thing.

Now, as a person who's childhood was being raised in a Catholic family in a Catholic school, I don't recall God ever stating that cloning or divorce was an abomination to God. Dogs marrying each other? Please show me scripture on that one. A Pagan is one who does not believe in your standard religions or rituals.

That aside, I hope you noted what I underlined in these quotes, and that is "they asked." Nowhere did I see them claim that they actually ordered these cakes, paid for them, and picked them up for evidence..........they asked.....

Now ask yourself: if one was trying to prove something, wouldn't they want the evidence to support it? I mean, why did they just ask? Could it be because there is no evidence of making such requests, and there would have been evidence if they actually had these cakes in their possession they "supposedly" requested?

So how do I rate your articles about this bakery?

View attachment 146953

You must take three or four yoga classes to twist yourself up into that kind of a pretzel.

I would actually have respect for these bakers if they did actually refuse to bake a cake for a fat person (gluttony), or a formerly divorced person...but they don't. Know what that tells the entire thinking world? That it's not about religion, but about hating gays.

Just like in the Piggy Park Supreme Court case when a racist asshole tried to use their religion to deny service to blacks. It wasn't about religion, it was about being a racist motherfucker.

 

[Seawytch]

So to clarify now that I have more time. The gay couple can get a plain chocolate cake with no mention or design features representing a wedding cake and that's fine. As long as they make them that they don't need to make any further concessions.

I don't see why they couldn't sell them any wedding cake they offer. They shouldn't have to put to guys holding hands on the cake or write Happy Guy Wedding... But a cake is a cake.

Do you think tux shop should be allowed to deny selling a tux to a guy if he is going to use it in a gay wedding?

So you have to make the cake just not finish it.

I think a tux shop should be able to show two guys gating it up in their place the door. I also think other shops should welcome it.

You're not answering my question. I didn't say anything about two guys gating it up in a tux shop. I said should the tux shop be able to say "no sale" to a gay guy because he is wanting the suit for his wedding?

Behavior means a lot don't you think? Two guys go in and get fitted for tuxes. No big deal. If they go in flaming the gay around like a couple queens that could be a problem.

Absolutely, businesses can have dress codes and they can deny customers for being disruptive, aggressive or obscene. That's not really what this discussion is about. We are talking about a businesses right to discriminate because of who the customer is, not what they are doing

That is correct. As with most rights, the "right" to refuse service is not absolute.

The Right to Refuse Service: Can a Business Refuse Service to Someone?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I'm not here to make religious calls. All I am saying is how people of religion feel. As for the other things you mentioned, those are personal decisions and doesn't involve forcing people to be part of your practices.

My other examples can be applied. Should people be allowed to deny service to single mothers because they had premarital sex? That is also a sin or an abomination as you put it. See where this can go?

Again, apples and oranges.

Christian religions teach forgiveness because they follow the path of Jesus. We are taught that everybody sins, it's the redemption that's more important.

In other words, I can't go to confession at a Catholic church and ask the priest to ask God for forgiveness because I plan to rape a woman. I can ask God for forgiveness after the assault because I felt guilt, but you cannot get forgiveness beforehand like a gift card.

When a gay person asks a baker to create a cake for his gay wedding, he is saying that he plans on participating in a ritual against the religion of the baker, and wants the baker to participate as well. Unlike buying a tux where the shop is just the middle man in the transaction, baking a cake is more creative because it starts from scratch and requires a lot of art and work. The baker is therefore involved in the wedding just like a photographer, a florist, or the person that rents them the hall.

Just stop. These people aren't discriminating because their religion tells them to, they do it because they hate fags.

Bakery Will Do Pagan, Cloning, and Divorce Cakes But Not Gay Weddings

Masterpiece Cakeshop, Colorado Bakery, Agrees To 'Dog Wedding' Cake Despite Turning Away Gays | HuffPost

Oh, now this is grand. And WTF are The Advocate's anyway? Never heard of them, and there is no real news agency that emulated them as far as I can tell. So allow me to point out some things that you never even thought about; quotes from your articles:

When one of the reporters called and asked if the business could make two identical cakes to help a friend celebrate the grant she received for cloning human stem cells,

A request for a cake to congratulate a friend on her divorce was also happily accepted

Sweet Cakes was even happy to take orders for cakes for a pagan summer solstice fete — complete with a green pentagram decoration — and celebrating babies born out of wedlock.

After being turned away, Schmalz called the bakery and told owner Jack Phillips that she was planning to host a wedding celebration for two dogs.

And then the rest of the article went on to quote this Advocate thing.

Now, as a person who's childhood was being raised in a Catholic family in a Catholic school, I don't recall God ever stating that cloning or divorce was an abomination to God. Dogs marrying each other? Please show me scripture on that one. A Pagan is one who does not believe in your standard religions or rituals.

That aside, I hope you noted what I underlined in these quotes, and that is "they asked." Nowhere did I see them claim that they actually ordered these cakes, paid for them, and picked them up for evidence..........they asked.....

Now ask yourself: if one was trying to prove something, wouldn't they want the evidence to support it? I mean, why did they just ask? Could it be because there is no evidence of making such requests, and there would have been evidence if they actually had these cakes in their possession they "supposedly" requested?

So how do I rate your articles about this bakery?

View attachment 146953

You must take three or four yoga classes to twist yourself up into that kind of a pretzel.

I would actually have respect for these bakers if they did actually refuse to bake a cake for a fat person (gluttony), or a formerly divorced person...but they don't. Know what that tells the entire thinking world? That it's not about religion, but about hating gays.

Just like in the Piggy Park Supreme Court case when a racist asshole tried to use their religion to deny service to blacks. It wasn't about religion, it was about being a racist motherfucker.

I twisted you in a pretzel, not me.

You don't know if they agreed to making these cakes or not. You're assuming they did because some half-wit internet site said they did. And as I pointed out, it was total BS, because if this bakery said they would make the cakes, why didn't they have the bakery make them?

The reason is as clear as water. They never made such requests. They made the entire story up. You bought it hook, line and sinker.

I'm not a reporter--I'm a truck driver, and even I know that if I were to report on something as fact, I would make sure I have facts on my side--not just here say. The same goes for the lesbian couple. If the husband (or wife) called the store to get a dog wedding cake made, why didn't they order one, pay for it, and have somebody else pick it up for them as evidence of their claim?