Religious people less intelligent than atheists?

[daveman]

I have a theory about why militant atheists are so hostile towards believers.

They're afraid we're right.

That's not it at all. We just get a little tired of being treated like second class citizens when we have to accomodate the wishes of christians. This whole "war on christmas" argument is a perfect example..

Remind me again...who's forcing you to pray? To believe in God?

If you're offended by mention of the word "God", I don't know what to tell you, other than that's just too bad. No one's going to stop saying the word.

 

[YWN666]

I am not "hostile" to religious lunatics. Their stupidity just disgusts me and makes me nauseous. In the modern world, stupidity endangers mankind and the whole natural world.

"Stupidity, from being an amiable individual defect, has become a monstrous and deadly social crime."
J. D. Bernal

.

I agree. There are too many religious nutcases who are trying to force their beliefs on impressionable children in public schools and bring us backwards into the dark ages.

Nope, no hostility there.

No hostility. It's just recognizing selfish people trying to force their beliefs on others.

 

[YWN666]

I have a theory about why militant atheists are so hostile towards believers.

They're afraid we're right.

That's not it at all. We just get a little tired of being treated like second class citizens when we have to accomodate the wishes of christians. This whole "war on christmas" argument is a perfect example..

Remind me again...who's forcing you to pray? To believe in God?

If you're offended by mention of the word "God", I don't know what to tell you, other than that's just too bad. No one's going to stop saying the word.

Oh, here we go again. When a child in a public school is instructed to recite a prayer it is coercion. NO ONE is saying that students have to stop saying the word on their own, we're saying that the school can't force students to say it as part of the curriculum. The offense is not in the word "God", it is in the school directing that it be said. Get it?

 

[FA_Q2]

That's not it at all. We just get a little tired of being treated like second class citizens when we have to accomodate the wishes of christians. This whole "war on christmas" argument is a perfect example..

Remind me again...who's forcing you to pray? To believe in God?

If you're offended by mention of the word "God", I don't know what to tell you, other than that's just too bad. No one's going to stop saying the word.

Oh, here we go again. When a child in a public school is instructed to recite a prayer it is coercion. NO ONE is saying that students have to stop saying the word on their own, we're saying that the school can't force students to say it as part of the curriculum. The offense is not in the word "God", it is in the school directing that it be said. Get it?

That is not currently the case anymore though. Now, rather than the school being barred from telling a student to pray; that student is now barred from praying in any venue that the student is addressing others in. The most stark examples are in the valedictorian speeches now in controversy.

There is a very real problem when people in public are suddenly barred from saying anything that might be religious as a personal speech. That is when the pendulum has swung in the opposite direction.

 

[numan]

I am not "hostile" to religious lunatics. Their stupidity just disgusts me and makes me nauseous. In the modern world, stupidity endangers mankind and the whole natural world.

"Stupidity, from being an amiable individual defect, has become a monstrous and deadly social crime."
---J. D. Bernal

I agree. There are too many religious nutcases who are trying to force their beliefs on impressionable children in public schools and bring us backwards into the dark ages.

Nope, no hostility there.

No hostility. It's just recognizing selfish people trying to force their beliefs on others.

Quite right, as Yawn said elsewhere, I don't care if you want to worship a bucket of lugnuts, just so long as you don't try to enshrine your insanity in law, or corrupt the minds of children with your harmful superstitions.

I have a theory about why militant atheists are so hostile towards believers.

They're afraid we're right.

It is to laugh. Another of your wacky religious errors.

I am well aware that existence is almost certainly more subtle and complex than my primitive anthropoid brain can comprehend.

Equally, the crude, primitive, irrational Bronze Age superstitions of religion are far, far too barbaric and crude and idiotic to have any relation with reality. They can have no relation to the glories which science has revealed to us, let alone to the subtle mysteries which, as yet, remain beyond the purview of rational understanding.

I probably have more knowledge about your religion than you do (for example, can you read the New Testament in Greek?). It is mildly interesting from an historical and anthropological perspective -- but "true" in any significant sense?

Not a chance.
.

 

[YWN666]

Remind me again...who's forcing you to pray? To believe in God?

If you're offended by mention of the word "God", I don't know what to tell you, other than that's just too bad. No one's going to stop saying the word.

Oh, here we go again. When a child in a public school is instructed to recite a prayer it is coercion. NO ONE is saying that students have to stop saying the word on their own, we're saying that the school can't force students to say it as part of the curriculum. The offense is not in the word "God", it is in the school directing that it be said. Get it?

That is not currently the case anymore though. Now, rather than the school being barred from telling a student to pray; that student is now barred from praying in any venue that the student is addressing others in.

Only under certain circumstances like a valedictorian speech when his speech is considered to be endorsed by the school. Otherwise, he has the constitutional right to pray himself.

The most stark examples are in the valedictorian speeches now in controversy.

There is a very real problem when people in public are suddenly barred from saying anything that might be religious as a personal speech. That is when the pendulum has swung in the opposite direction.

Let's get real. No one is even suggesting that students are barred from saying anything religious under any circumstances. It is completely reasonable to restrict that speech when it is considered to be endorsed by the school.

 

[Tuatara]

Christians.

You don't see the level of animosity Christians receive from militant atheists also directed to other faiths.

Why is that?

Militant??? Are they coming after you with weapons or are you just a big crybaby?

Feeling your toes stepped on? Given your emotional response, it sure looks that way.

My toes have not been stepped on. I just find it amusing that you are throwing out the word militant when no one here is being anymore agressive verbally with you than you are with them. You dodge issues and would rather resort to labels and namecalling.

 

[Ernie S.]

I have a theory about why militant atheists are so hostile towards believers.

They're afraid we're right.

That's not it at all. We just get a little tired of being treated like second class citizens when we have to accomodate the wishes of christians. This whole "war on christmas" argument is a perfect example..

You file suits against us for our decorations and holiday displays, claim to be offended when someone wishes you happiness on December 25th and are pissed off when we use words like "war on Christmas? How friggin hypocritical can you people get?

A Nativity scene in the park does you no harm yet you ask the government to pass judgments restricting the free exercise of religion.

Christians do not, in any way, seek to stop atheists from practicing their belief system, because we feel the Constitution protects you as much as us.

I would fight any attempt by my city to finance a religious holiday display. That would violate the "establishment clause. But simply allowing others to use public property for such a display, doesn't bother me in the least.
Public property belongs to Christians as much as it does to anyone else and passing an ordinance or a court order prohibiting religious displays violates the free expression clause.

 

[Ernie S.]

I'll be your Huckleberry. Believers are dangerous to the survival of the inhabitants of this planet. They believe that "god" has a plan and have resigned themselves to leave everything up to the allmighty's wishes. When I look out and see the moon my hostility towards you fools is focused and clear. Anyone can see the huge craters on the surface of the moon. There are several that if occured here on the surface of earth would wipe out us and every other living thing except maybe moles and bats(They reside underground). The moles eat grubs AKA maggots and the bats dine on insects AKA flies. There will be a lot of flies and maggots when the big rock smacks into our planet from all the decaying flesh.

We need to stop all our foolishness and get serious about what we need to do to prevent the next cosmic holocaust. I hate the religious because they waste time and money on a grand scale that could be put to better use than the pursuit of thier delusions.

Stop acting and believing as children...grow up...face reality head on and maybe...just maybe we will have a chance to survive into the future.

That is a lot of tall claims based on nothing at all.

Christians, in general, are not doing anything at all that would stop research or attempts to avoid the next ‘cosmic cataclysm.’ Last I checked, it was our secular government that seems to think that science like NASA is not really important anymore.

Scientific research is independent of faith. The two have very little to do with each other.

But when it comes down to a matter of life and death, many religious folks will toss aside their beliefs and rely on reality. Reality rules over religious beliefs. If you're in a plane that's going down and you can either take a parachute and jump or pray to your god that the plane doesn't crash, which would you do?

Stupid analogy! Prayer doesn't work like that. Praying is generally asking God what to do and listening for an answer.
I'm confident that in a position like the above, God would tell me to grab a chute and jump.

 

[Ernie S.]

I agree. There are too many religious nutcases who are trying to force their beliefs on impressionable children in public schools and bring us backwards into the dark ages.

Nope, no hostility there.

No hostility. It's just recognizing selfish people trying to force their beliefs on others.

Isn't that precisely what you are doing? A prayer at a graduation or a Crèche set up in a park do not "force" you to do anything at all.

However, your attempts to restrict same, violate the free exercise clause of the 1st Amendment.

 

[Tuatara]

You file suits against us for our decorations and holiday displays, claim to be offended when someone wishes you happiness on December 25th and are pissed off when we use words like "war on Christmas? How friggin hypocritical can you people get?

Never heard of an atheist being offended by someone wishing them happiness on December 25th. War on Christmas is a bit of a stretch because Atheista are only pointing out that when you want religious displays in public areas that it's going to open up a can of worms of other religious and non religious dislpays. Not in your constitution.

A Nativity scene in the park does you no harm yet you ask the government to pass judgments restricting the free exercise of religion.

Yet would you welcome an Islamic display or a Hindu display or a FSM display?

Christians do not, in any way, seek to stop atheists from practicing their belief system, because we feel the Constitution protects you as much as us.

Atheists do not have a belief system Atheists put up a few bill boards and many, many christians tried to get them taken down.

I would fight any attempt by my city to finance a religious holiday display. That would violate the "establishment clause. But simply allowing others to use public property for such a display, doesn't bother me in the least.

So you would have no problem with a Satanist display?

Public property belongs to Christians as much as it does to anyone else and passing an ordinance or a court order prohibiting religious displays violates the free expression clause.

Like I said. It may open up a can of worms you don't like.

 

[FA_Q2]

Never heard of an atheist being offended by someone wishing them happiness on December 25th. War on Christmas is a bit of a stretch because Atheista are only pointing out that when you want religious displays in public areas that it's going to open up a can of worms of other religious and non religious dislpays. Not in your constitution.

A Nativity scene in the park does you no harm yet you ask the government to pass judgments restricting the free exercise of religion.

Yet would you welcome an Islamic display or a Hindu display or a FSM display?

Atheists do not have a belief system Atheists put up a few bill boards and many, many christians tried to get them taken down.

They are not ‘pointing it out.’ They are barring it from happening at all.

No problem with either of those ideas as long as the community went through whatever the standards was and nothing that is not allowed is displayed (like nudity etc.) It is only those that are barring religious displays that ever bring this up because they are the only ones care about other religious symbols.

 

[FA_Q2]

Oh, here we go again. When a child in a public school is instructed to recite a prayer it is coercion. NO ONE is saying that students have to stop saying the word on their own, we're saying that the school can't force students to say it as part of the curriculum. The offense is not in the word "God", it is in the school directing that it be said. Get it?

That is not currently the case anymore though. Now, rather than the school being barred from telling a student to pray; that student is now barred from praying in any venue that the student is addressing others in.

Only under certain circumstances like a valedictorian speech when his speech is considered to be endorsed by the school. Otherwise, he has the constitutional right to pray himself.

The most stark examples are in the valedictorian speeches now in controversy.

There is a very real problem when people in public are suddenly barred from saying anything that might be religious as a personal speech. That is when the pendulum has swung in the opposite direction.

Let's get real. No one is even suggesting that students are barred from saying anything religious under any circumstances. It is completely reasonable to restrict that speech when it is considered to be endorsed by the school.

And there you go adding qualifiers. I don’t want to restrict your right to practice your religion. Well, ONLY in this instance. Oh, and that instance as well. Oh, and we just thought up of another instance…

Bull. We have cases of religious students being barred from setting up a bible study on school grounds but for some reason the chess club is all right. The difference? None, other than the fact that there are some that do not seem to understand what the free exercise clause actually means. The ‘reasonable’ restrictions begin and end at the institution itself. It should not extend to some mythical restrictions on the grounds or in a particular speech by a student or any other asinine ambiguous line simply so that some don’t have to suffer from being exposed to Christianity.

You are making claims that Christians are invading law when that is currently no longer the case. The pendulum is on the OTHER side now.

 

[daveman]

I'll be your Huckleberry. Believers are dangerous to the survival of the inhabitants of this planet. They believe that "god" has a plan and have resigned themselves to leave everything up to the allmighty's wishes. When I look out and see the moon my hostility towards you fools is focused and clear. Anyone can see the huge craters on the surface of the moon. There are several that if occured here on the surface of earth would wipe out us and every other living thing except maybe moles and bats(They reside underground). The moles eat grubs AKA maggots and the bats dine on insects AKA flies. There will be a lot of flies and maggots when the big rock smacks into our planet from all the decaying flesh.

We need to stop all our foolishness and get serious about what we need to do to prevent the next cosmic holocaust. I hate the religious because they waste time and money on a grand scale that could be put to better use than the pursuit of thier delusions.

Stop acting and believing as children...grow up...face reality head on and maybe...just maybe we will have a chance to survive into the future.

That is a lot of tall claims based on nothing at all.

Christians, in general, are not doing anything at all that would stop research or attempts to avoid the next ‘cosmic cataclysm.’ Last I checked, it was our secular government that seems to think that science like NASA is not really important anymore.

Scientific research is independent of faith. The two have very little to do with each other.

But when it comes down to a matter of life and death, many religious folks will toss aside their beliefs and rely on reality. Reality rules over religious beliefs. If you're in a plane that's going down and you can either take a parachute and jump or pray to your god that the plane doesn't crash, which would you do?

False dichotomy -- unless atheists are withholding parachutes from believers.

December 10, 1999, a C-130 almost crashed in Kuwait.

I was on board.

After the plane struck the desert floor at Al Jaber, it regained the air. The loadmasters strung cargo straps from the front bulkhead of the cargo deck to the rear -- they were afraid the fuselage would come apart in flight. The impact, the tears in the airplane from the landing gear components punching up though into the cargo deck, the smell of hydraulic fluid, the sound of the wind coming through the holed fuselage, the sight of Airmen attending to the wounded -- all terrifying. We were packed in tight. Couldn't move. Couldn't do anything.

Couldn't do anything but pray.

For 45 minutes, while we flew over the Gulf dumping fuel, I prayed.

I prayed to God that He would take care of my girls -- my wife and my almost-4-year-old daughter -- and that if He had to take those of us on the Herc, that it would be quick and painless. I prayed that He would guide the aircrew to bring us safely to a halt back at Kuwait International. I prayed that those who had been injured at the point of impact would be okay, and that they weren't in any pain (I found out later that three Airmen had died. I spoke with a flight nurse and a chaplain later during counselling, and the nurse said that with the injuries of those killed, they would have never regained consciousness, and thus died in no pain. That was important to me).

God's given me peace over this accident. I haven't had any nightmares, no sleepless nights, no PTSD, nothing. I'm forever grateful for that, and that I had my faith to lean on during a terrifying time.

Perhaps, like many atheists, you simply don't understand the nature of faith. As for your claim: "But when it comes down to a matter of life and death, many religious folks will toss aside their beliefs and rely on reality" -- that simply doesn't hold up to reality.

Christians die for their faith every day.

The January 2011 issue of the International Bulletin of Missionary Research reported the number of Christian martyrs per year peaked at around 160,000 in the year 2000, but since the cessation of hostilities in the Sudan it had fallen to around 100,000 per year.

A second source cited by the Italian sociologist, The Price of Freedom Denied, published by sociologists Brian J. Grim and Roger Finke, estimated the number of Christian martyrs per year was higher, ranging from 130,000 and 160,000.

His estimate of 105,000 Christian martyrs in 2011, “between 287 and 288 martyrs per day: twelve per hour, or one every five minutes,” was a conservative estimate that could be adjusted up or down. “At any rate, figures are horribly high. This is the situation I wanted to alert the audience to in Gödöllo,” he said.​

You may have no beliefs you're willing to die for. But don't project that onto everyone.

 

[daveman]

But when it comes down to a matter of life and death, many religious folks will toss aside their beliefs and rely on reality. Reality rules over religious beliefs. If you're in a plane that's going down and you can either take a parachute and jump or pray to your god that the plane doesn't crash, which would you do?

False dichotemy. Having faith in God is not incompatible with taking a parachute and jumping. And that's hardly the only option available.

There are some who insist that prayer to their god will save them from anything. Look at the people whose children have died when they refused medical treatment for a treatable ailment in favor of prayer.

Homicide convictions upheld for Wisconsin parents who treated dying daughter with prayer - U.S. News

And look at the millions of people whose children were saved by the talents and skills of health care professionals and their tools and medicines, believing they're gifts from God.

The believers who see medicine as being of God far, far outnumber those who believe they should ONLY pray.

 

[daveman]

I agree. There are too many religious nutcases who are trying to force their beliefs on impressionable children in public schools and bring us backwards into the dark ages.

Nope, no hostility there.

No hostility. It's just recognizing selfish people trying to force their beliefs on others.

That's simply not credible, considering you use these words: "nutcases who are trying to...bring us backwards into the dark ages".

Did you miss my post earlier, where I listed number of openly Christian scientists? Are they nutcases who want to return to the Dark Ages?

 

[daveman]

That's not it at all. We just get a little tired of being treated like second class citizens when we have to accomodate the wishes of christians. This whole "war on christmas" argument is a perfect example..

Remind me again...who's forcing you to pray? To believe in God?

If you're offended by mention of the word "God", I don't know what to tell you, other than that's just too bad. No one's going to stop saying the word.

Oh, here we go again. When a child in a public school is instructed to recite a prayer it is coercion. NO ONE is saying that students have to stop saying the word on their own, we're saying that the school can't force students to say it as part of the curriculum. The offense is not in the word "God", it is in the school directing that it be said. Get it?

Yes, I get it. But it happens almost...nowhere, actually. When it does happen, it's big news, because it's so rare.

You really have nothing to be so emotional about.

 

[daveman]

Nope, no hostility there.

No hostility. It's just recognizing selfish people trying to force their beliefs on others.

Quite right, as Yawn said elsewhere, I don't care if you want to worship a bucket of lugnuts, just so long as you don't try to enshrine your insanity in law, or corrupt the minds of children with your harmful superstitions.

WATCH: Proud Parent Posts Video of Child Praying TO Barack Obama | Independent Journal Review

I have a theory about why militant atheists are so hostile towards believers.

They're afraid we're right.

It is to laugh. Another of your wacky religious errors.

I am well aware that existence is almost certainly more subtle and complex than my primitive anthropoid brain can comprehend.

Equally, the crude, primitive, irrational Bronze Age superstitions of religion are far, far too barbaric and crude and idiotic to have any relation with reality. They can have no relation to the glories which science has revealed to us, let alone to the subtle mysteries which, as yet, remain beyond the purview of rational understanding.

I probably have more knowledge about your religion than you do (for example, can you read the New Testament in Greek?). It is mildly interesting from an historical and anthropological perspective -- but "true" in any significant sense?

Not a chance.
.

Satan can quote Scripture.

Did you think you had a point?

 

[daveman]

Militant??? Are they coming after you with weapons or are you just a big crybaby?

Feeling your toes stepped on? Given your emotional response, it sure looks that way.

My toes have not been stepped on. I just find it amusing that you are throwing out the word militant when no one here is being anymore agressive verbally with you than you are with them. You dodge issues and would rather resort to labels and namecalling.

I'm sorry; I didn't know every single atheist in the world was posting in this thread.

Or you could just realize I was speaking generally of aggressive atheists.

And I think I see a footprint on your toes.

 

[daveman]

who's we ?

.

Christians.

You don't see the level of animosity Christians receive from militant atheists also directed to other faiths.

Why is that?

Do you not see the animosity that atheists receive from christians?

Leave us alone to practice our Constitutional rights, and we'll return the favor. Please note that there is no Constitutional right to NOT be offended.

You're going to hear the word "god" in contexts other than in front of "damn America".

Not much you can do about it, either.