Religious people seem to have more bias in these debates.

[Batcat]

Science convinced me that God exists.

World-Famous Atheist Convinced by Science That God Exists

This article titled: World-Famous Atheist Convinced by Science That God Exists deals with the conversion of Antony Flew, the great atheist philosopher who denounced atheism and embraced Islam after being convinced that the universe must have a creator.

www.truth-seeker.info

Michio Kaku Clears Up God Discovery - Innovation & Tech Today

Several months ago there was a flurry of headlines claiming that Michio Kaku had proven the existence of God. In this exclusive interview with the famous

innotechtoday.com

List of Christians in science and technology - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Scientists and Belief

When President Barack Obama announced on July 8, 2009, that he would nominate renowned geneticist Francis Collins to be the new director of the National

www.pewforum.org

View attachment 443606

OK I read the first link and the title is misleading.

There has been no scientific proof of any gods but this philosopher is of the opinion that DNA had to be made by a god. And that opinion is no more valid than his previous opinion that there was no god.

Some scientists are beginning to believe we live in a computer program. Would that make the programmer God?

BBC Earth | Environment, Climate Change, AI, Food, Health, Social, & Technology

As we face the world’s greatest environmental challenges, BBC Earth brings you solutions in psychology, food, climate change, health, social trends, and technology that can make the world a more sustainable place.

www.bbc.com

 

[Blues Man]

Science convinced me that God exists.

World-Famous Atheist Convinced by Science That God Exists

This article titled: World-Famous Atheist Convinced by Science That God Exists deals with the conversion of Antony Flew, the great atheist philosopher who denounced atheism and embraced Islam after being convinced that the universe must have a creator.

www.truth-seeker.info

Michio Kaku Clears Up God Discovery - Innovation & Tech Today

Several months ago there was a flurry of headlines claiming that Michio Kaku had proven the existence of God. In this exclusive interview with the famous

innotechtoday.com

List of Christians in science and technology - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Scientists and Belief

When President Barack Obama announced on July 8, 2009, that he would nominate renowned geneticist Francis Collins to be the new director of the National

www.pewforum.org

View attachment 443606

OK I read the first link and the title is misleading.

There has been no scientific proof of any gods but this philosopher is of the opinion that DNA had to be made by a god. And that opinion is no more valid than his previous opinion that there was no god.

Some scientists are beginning to believe we live in a computer program. Would that make the programmer God?

BBC Earth | Environment, Climate Change, AI, Food, Health, Social, & Technology

As we face the world’s greatest environmental challenges, BBC Earth brings you solutions in psychology, food, climate change, health, social trends, and technology that can make the world a more sustainable place.

www.bbc.com

Just because someone is a scientists doesn't mean they are always right. I think they were just smoking some good stuff

 

[Briss]

Well, the gist of the message is that the god created humans, giving them the gift of life; humans didn't do with the gift what the god wanted them to do with it (not really a gift then, huh); the god became angry because the freewill creatures it created used their freewill; the god then created a great flood to wipe out the evidence of its flawed creation like a clay-master blaming the clay for the imperfections in his work.

Adding insult to injury, the god decided that it would forgive humans for being exactly what it made them to be only by offering up one of its perfect creations (Jesus) to be tortured and torn apart by its imperfect creations. So now that we know that pain, blood, and suffering is the currency of choice of this being, we don't have to wonder about its true nature.

And that is as far as you got with your study?

You disagree with my interpretation thus far?

 

[Meriweather]

You asked me what prevented me from finding a path did you not?

We had been discussing the Bible. Never mind.

 

[Meriweather]

You disagree with my interpretation thus far?

I enjoy rabbinical commentary.

 

[Briss]

Science convinced me that God exists.

World-Famous Atheist Convinced by Science That God Exists

This article titled: World-Famous Atheist Convinced by Science That God Exists deals with the conversion of Antony Flew, the great atheist philosopher who denounced atheism and embraced Islam after being convinced that the universe must have a creator.

www.truth-seeker.info

Michio Kaku Clears Up God Discovery - Innovation & Tech Today

Several months ago there was a flurry of headlines claiming that Michio Kaku had proven the existence of God. In this exclusive interview with the famous

innotechtoday.com

List of Christians in science and technology - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Scientists and Belief

When President Barack Obama announced on July 8, 2009, that he would nominate renowned geneticist Francis Collins to be the new director of the National

www.pewforum.org

View attachment 443606

OK I read the first link and the title is misleading.

There has been no scientific proof of any gods but this philosopher is of the opinion that DNA had to be made by a god. And that opinion is no more valid than his previous opinion that there was no god.

Some scientists are beginning to believe we live in a computer program. Would that make the programmer God?

BBC Earth | Environment, Climate Change, AI, Food, Health, Social, & Technology

As we face the world’s greatest environmental challenges, BBC Earth brings you solutions in psychology, food, climate change, health, social trends, and technology that can make the world a more sustainable place.

www.bbc.com

You disagree with my interpretation thus far?

I enjoy rabbinical commentary.

I think you know that I'm addressing the issue of the god's requirement that its son suffer horrible torture in exchange for letting the human race off the hook for being created defective. Do you agree that that is the predominant rumor circulating through organized religion's houses of worship?

 

[Meriweather]

I think you know that I'm addressing the issue of the god's requirement that its son suffer horrible torture in exchange for letting the human race off the hook for being created defective. Do you agree that that is the predominant rumor circulating through organized religion's houses of worship?

No.

 

[Briss]

I think you know that I'm addressing the issue of the god's requirement that its son suffer horrible torture in exchange for letting the human race off the hook for being created defective. Do you agree that that is the predominant rumor circulating through organized religion's houses of worship?

No.

Then you're unaware of the fact that the central theme of the biblical version of things is that Jesus died on the cross for our sins to appease his father?

 

[Blackrook]

I'm sure the other side has its own bias too, but I think it's different. The difference is religious people seem to need their religion. If they were confronted with proof that their God isn't real I think a lot of them would be very broken on a spiritual and emotional level. Conversely I think if agnostics and atheists were confronted with proof that God is real it would have a different kind of impact. I think many atheists would be salty over being wrong, but I don't think it would destroy them in the same way. The purpose in their universe doesn't hinge on God in the same way. Personally, as an agnostic that was formally an atheist, I'd be thrilled to find out God really exists. It would simplify the universe and bring me a lot of comfort, which is probably what religion does for the religious.

Why does it matter? I think religious people, because they need this more, will bend and go to any length to avoid absorbing the kind of scrutiny that would make them question their God. They are by far the more desperate and stubborn ones in this debate. It's not about logic and facts for them. They need this, so you're never going to change their minds.

You're right that religious people need God. That's why they're religious. You get no credit for figuring out something so obvious.

 

[Meriweather]

Then you're unaware of the fact that the central theme of the biblical version of things is that Jesus died on the cross for our sins to appease his father?

There are some who believe that even before they were born, all sins they will ever commit have already been forgiven. For a few of these, even asking for forgiveness is to doubt their face. Others believe Jesus had to be a blood sacrifice in order for sins to be forgiven, or as you say, someone had to be punished for every sin committed. Nice summaries to be sure, and near the mark, but when one truly delves into the Old Testament and the Gospels, there is more detail that people seem to skip over. First is 'Testament' means 'Covenant'. Second, God has never required blood sacrifice to forgive sins--let alone a human sacrifice. Where we see blood sacrifice is to establish a Covenant (or Testament).

Read the Gospels and hear Jesus' words: "Your sins are forgiven." Jesus never said sins will be forgiven after he died a horrible death. Jesus said, "Repentance (turning away from sin) for the forgiveness of sins." It was the Temple that was asking for cereal sacrifice, etc and Jesus' words interfered with Temple revenues. They were angry and said only God could forgive sins, which still held true. Only Jesus was telling everyone, "Repentance for the forgiveness of sins; your sins are forgiven." Temple authorities insisted that Jesus had no authority to make any such declaration. There was no sign from God for anyone to declare the forgiveness of sins. Jesus noted the sign that would be given if push came to shove. Which it did. He, himself was the sign. It was his blood that sealed this New Testament (Covenant).

Temple authorities were doing all they could to silence Jesus, and Jesus had the option to shut up or continue to anger the authorities. But Jesus insisted the authority he had to announce the forgiveness of sins was from God, and he was going to remain obedient to God, not bow to Temple authority. And, we all know what happened. The Covenant was sealed with blood, and the sign of this Testament is the resurrection.

Read the closing verses of Psalm 22, known as the Prayer of an Innocent Person. The opening lines to that Psalm would immediately call to mind the closing verses. At least for someone of the Jewish faith; too many Christians have either forgotten it or never knew it to begin with.

Catholics kept the Sacraments (memories of Jesus' life and teachings). Catholics are constantly reminded of Jesus' words, we are blessed to hear them as often as we wish....You sins are forgiven. But we are also reminded it is repentance (the turning away from sin) that brings about forgiveness. We do not believe that we can sin through life because Jesus was punished for our wrong-doings. No. Jesus brought the Good News of Repentance for the forgiveness of sins, the center of the Gospel message.

It is not Christians who believe Jesus made a sacrifice (even if they see that sacrifice as a punishment) who worry me. Indeed, Jesus did lay down his life so that his message, the New Covenant, could be spread throughout the world. What bothers me are those who grow even further apart from knowing God. They read the Bible and say, "Look, look a monster!" And, as we all know, monsters do not exist. And that is the excuse for non belief.

God is love. Seek and find. Why? Because we are the salt of the earth.

And no. I did not come up with this on my own. Books. Bible Study. Hebrew studies. Group study. Decades of it. The trouble is, our lives are so busy we simply haven't the time to scan through the Bible, let alone delve deeply into its depths. Most people just get the summary...but the summary is enough for many. That is not a bad thing for those who believe.

 

[LittleNipper]

I think you know that I'm addressing the issue of the god's requirement that its son suffer horrible torture in exchange for letting the human race off the hook for being created defective. Do you agree that that is the predominant rumor circulating through organized religion's houses of worship?

No.

Then you're unaware of the fact that the central theme of the biblical version of things is that Jesus died on the cross for our sins to appease his father?

JESUS died on the cross to atone for sin. When GOD looks at a believer in CHRIST, HE now looks upon that believer through JESUS and no longer perceives the sin (it is covered/washed away). The individual who rejects CHRIST and his atonement is looked upon by GOD with all his sins and is excluded to uttermost darkness forever --- to live apart from GOD's perfection as that individual can best accommodate himself...

 

[norwegen]

I think you know that I'm addressing the issue of the god's requirement that its son suffer horrible torture in exchange for letting the human race off the hook for being created defective. Do you agree that that is the predominant rumor circulating through organized religion's houses of worship?

No.

Then you're unaware of the fact that the central theme of the biblical version of things is that Jesus died on the cross for our sins to appease his father?

That's not the central theme of the Bible. It's not even the central theme of the gospels. Jesus didn't start talking about his death until the end of his ministry.

 

[surada]

I think you know that I'm addressing the issue of the god's requirement that its son suffer horrible torture in exchange for letting the human race off the hook for being created defective. Do you agree that that is the predominant rumor circulating through organized religion's houses of worship?

No.

Then you're unaware of the fact that the central theme of the biblical version of things is that Jesus died on the cross for our sins to appease his father?

The whole notion of blood sacrifice for sins is pretty gross and pagan.

 

[Meriweather]

The whole notion of blood sacrifice for sins is pretty gross and pagan.

I don't know much about they whys and hows of pagan blood sacrifice, but I have sketchy knowledge of the whys and hows of blood sacrifice in Judaism. Being put to death on a cross is nowhere close to blood sacrifice in Judaism. Jesus had a mission: Repentance for the forgiveness of sins, which angered some in authority, some who feared the loss of not only Temple revenue but Temple purpose. They saw Jesus and his message as a threat. It was no secret. Jesus and the Apostles saw clearly his life was at stake. Jesus could have quit public preaching at any time. He did not. He was upfront that God sent him, and obedience to God was first and foremost in his life. In contemplating his likely death he noted, "Greater love has no man than to lay down his life for his friends." God is love; obedience to God's will was his mission.

Never once did Jesus note, "Someone has to be punished for the sins of all mankind." Constantly Jesus noted, "Sins are forgiven."

 

[Briss]

Then you're unaware of the fact that the central theme of the biblical version of things is that Jesus died on the cross for our sins to appease his father?

There are some who believe that even before they were born, all sins they will ever commit have already been forgiven. For a few of these, even asking for forgiveness is to doubt their face. Others believe Jesus had to be a blood sacrifice in order for sins to be forgiven, or as you say, someone had to be punished for every sin committed. Nice summaries to be sure, and near the mark, but when one truly delves into the Old Testament and the Gospels, there is more detail that people seem to skip over. First is 'Testament' means 'Covenant'. Second, God has never required blood sacrifice to forgive sins--let alone a human sacrifice. Where we see blood sacrifice is to establish a Covenant (or Testament).

Read the Gospels and hear Jesus' words: "Your sins are forgiven." Jesus never said sins will be forgiven after he died a horrible death. Jesus said, "Repentance (turning away from sin) for the forgiveness of sins." It was the Temple that was asking for cereal sacrifice, etc and Jesus' words interfered with Temple revenues. They were angry and said only God could forgive sins, which still held true. Only Jesus was telling everyone, "Repentance for the forgiveness of sins; your sins are forgiven." Temple authorities insisted that Jesus had no authority to make any such declaration. There was no sign from God for anyone to declare the forgiveness of sins. Jesus noted the sign that would be given if push came to shove. Which it did. He, himself was the sign. It was his blood that sealed this New Testament (Covenant).

Temple authorities were doing all they could to silence Jesus, and Jesus had the option to shut up or continue to anger the authorities. But Jesus insisted the authority he had to announce the forgiveness of sins was from God, and he was going to remain obedient to God, not bow to Temple authority. And, we all know what happened. The Covenant was sealed with blood, and the sign of this Testament is the resurrection.

Read the closing verses of Psalm 22, known as the Prayer of an Innocent Person. The opening lines to that Psalm would immediately call to mind the closing verses. At least for someone of the Jewish faith; too many Christians have either forgotten it or never knew it to begin with.

Catholics kept the Sacraments (memories of Jesus' life and teachings). Catholics are constantly reminded of Jesus' words, we are blessed to hear them as often as we wish....You sins are forgiven. But we are also reminded it is repentance (the turning away from sin) that brings about forgiveness. We do not believe that we can sin through life because Jesus was punished for our wrong-doings. No. Jesus brought the Good News of Repentance for the forgiveness of sins, the center of the Gospel message.

It is not Christians who believe Jesus made a sacrifice (even if they see that sacrifice as a punishment) who worry me. Indeed, Jesus did lay down his life so that his message, the New Covenant, could be spread throughout the world. What bothers me are those who grow even further apart from knowing God. They read the Bible and say, "Look, look a monster!" And, as we all know, monsters do not exist. And that is the excuse for non belief.

God is love. Seek and find. Why? Because we are the salt of the earth.

And no. I did not come up with this on my own. Books. Bible Study. Hebrew studies. Group study. Decades of it. The trouble is, our lives are so busy we simply haven't the time to scan through the Bible, let alone delve deeply into its depths. Most people just get the summary...but the summary is enough for many. That is not a bad thing for those who believe.

I see.

My position concerning the existence of a specific god (biblical version in this case) is that, invariably, people will give it whatever attributes are necessary to satisfy their need. Some people require that their god be all powerful and violent toward opposition. And the Bible opens up by offering just that--a souped up version of the human male ego; it gets angry like one, is vengeful like one, and even blames the flaws in its work on others like one. That's what some people want in their corner in their coming confrontation with something they know they can't defeat--death. Sometimes the disposition of one's god is proportional to one's fear of death. Death is big and bad and coming to a space near you. Who ya gonna call? Death Buster!

Let's start from the beginning. "In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth . . ."

If I'm new to the planet, I would ask you how you know this. So, how do you know this?

 

[Meriweather]

My position concerning the existence of a specific god (biblical version in this case) is that, invariably, people will give it whatever attributes are necessary to satisfy their need.

Have you ever experienced God or had a spiritual experience? You position is... Is your position a universal position? How many positions are there? What are they?

 

[Meriweather]

Let's start from the beginning. "In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth . . ."

If I'm new to the planet, I would ask you how you know this. So, how do you know this?

I would note that the Bible focuses on creation from a spiritual perspective. Are they interested in the creation of the physical heavens and earth (I teach science and can help them with that), or are they interested in creation from a spiritual perspective (I teach religion and can help them with that). Some of the Jewish aspects of the creation of mankind's spiritual life are thought provoking. Doesn't take a thing away from physical creation when viewed from the science perspective, either.

 

[LittleNipper]

I think you know that I'm addressing the issue of the god's requirement that its son suffer horrible torture in exchange for letting the human race off the hook for being created defective. Do you agree that that is the predominant rumor circulating through organized religion's houses of worship?

No.

Then you're unaware of the fact that the central theme of the biblical version of things is that Jesus died on the cross for our sins to appease his father?

The whole notion of blood sacrifice for sins is pretty gross and pagan.

Sin is far more gross.

 

[Briss]

My position concerning the existence of a specific god (biblical version in this case) is that, invariably, people will give it whatever attributes are necessary to satisfy their need.

Have you ever experienced God or had a spiritual experience? You position is... Is your position a universal position? How many positions are there? What are they?

The point is that every individual will assign to the god whatever characteristics the individual requires of its god.

And yes, I've had spiritual experiences. We call them other-dimensional experiences.

 

[Briss]

I think you know that I'm addressing the issue of the god's requirement that its son suffer horrible torture in exchange for letting the human race off the hook for being created defective. Do you agree that that is the predominant rumor circulating through organized religion's houses of worship?

No.

Then you're unaware of the fact that the central theme of the biblical version of things is that Jesus died on the cross for our sins to appease his father?

The whole notion of blood sacrifice for sins is pretty gross and pagan.

Sin is far more gross.

Humans used to believe that if you take an innocent animal without blemish, kill it, drain its lifeblood, and then offer up the corpse to the god, their sins would be forgiven. As gross and as primitive as that was, some still believe that a loving god did the same thing to its son.

Anyway, how do you know that this being exists? The Bible starts out with a chronological order of creation that reflects the uniformed opinion of someone who believed that the earth was the center of creation. And yet a lot of people prefer to believe that though the text starts out flawed, the rest of it is the honest to god's truth.