Religous Freedom is so dead

[emilynghiem]

Victoria Jackson is batshit crazy.

BTW here are my parodies I think are more educational and better written:
What Does the Law Say
Obama Gangsta Style - Lyrics for Video Contest
music video for Sustainable Campus converting sweatshop labor to workstudy jobs

Carla_Danger if these are not interesting to you,
my friend D2 who is in big trouble with needing health care
paid for could benefit from a fundraiser to pay off the house
and some of the costs so he can keep up his treatments.
He is recovering from a broken foot and some other heart or health conditions.

Since he is atheist, he can't do things like turn to Christian friends or churches for help.
He believes in remaining independent, and might accept loans if it isn't going to oblige or burden anyone.

Do you know of a group for atheists to help with charitable fundaising?
If I offered to put up something on gofundme he would refuse my help.

But what if other Atheists did that for a fellow Atheist. He might accept that support.

Do you have any ideas on that. You made me think of that when you replied on the
thread where we were fighting over who is or isn't taking responsibility or playing the victimcard etc.

What if there WAS a support group for Atheists who don't reach out and have fellowship groups like Churches do.
How can Atheists organize to help each other the same way as a likeminded community?

 

[Carla_Danger]

I'm trying to understand why it's alright to freely exercise one's religion on that day but no other

It's never okay for govt or public institutions to have any prayer or religious show of faith.
Not a cross, a Bible, a reference to God or Heaven. Not on any day of the year.

Only if you happen to agree with the beliefs, such as believing in gay marriage,
then it's justified to use govt to defend THOSE beliefs from discrimination.

But for things like Christmas trees, no, you can't have public money
spent on public schools and have things like that, because that's religious imposition.

I had no idea that gay marriage was a religion.

I did not know that "health care as a right" was a BELIEF until I read the Texas Democratic Party platform: "WE BELIEVE" that health care is a right.

I suspected that my beliefs in the Constitution and isonomy constituted a "political religion"
but nothing struck home to me more than recognizing principles in the Democratic platform
as spelling out what the "political beliefs" or "political religion" is of the party. I can only guess
the Republican platform is the same way, but at least they succeeded in changing their language to be more inclusive. I wish I could say the same for Democrats.
--------------------------
So yes, when you take a belief and you institutionalize it for people to BELIEVE in and adopt,
or you start harassing and even suing people who don't share your religiously held beliefs,
you are like declaring civil jihad on people.

Either believe as we do, or you are an infidel and should be cut off from having rights!
ALLAH GAYBAR!

Huh...whaaa?

Just exaggerated sarcasm and satire.

My point is yes, political beliefs should be treated equally as religious beliefs.
But right now, because they aren't recognized or treated the same,
secular beliefs are considered nonreligious and are allowed to be imposed by law.

While beliefs that are associated with traditional religions such as Christianity or Islam get attacked.

It's not okay to push those through the govt.

But right now if you have progay beliefs, you can sue and win discrimination cases against people for not supporting that.
or you BELIEVE health care is a right, you get a tax exemption for following that policy while people who don't believe
govt has the right or responsibility for managing health care get fined a tax penalty. And that's not seen as discrimination.

No, it's not exaggerated sarcasm and satire. Victoria Jackson is batshit crazy.

 

[emilynghiem]

You're getting your politics mixed up with your religion.

People do this all the time. that's my point. the lines are being crossed between church and state.
exactly. people ARE imposing their beliefs on others using laws and govt to do so.

As soon as we figure out that just because a belief is expressed in "secular terms"
doesn't make it any MORE "politically correct" to impose as a belief expressed in "religious terms"
we might get somewhere toward this concept of
equal protection of the laws
and not discriminating on the basis of creed.

Exactly! people aren't recognizing their beliefs are being imposed on others.
They are too busy fighting when other people's beliefs are imposed on them to see when it is happening mutually.

 

[Carla_Danger]

Victoria Jackson is batshit crazy.

BTW here are my parodies I think are more educational and better written:
What Does the Law Say
Obama Gangsta Style - Lyrics for Video Contest
music video for Sustainable Campus converting sweatshop labor to workstudy jobs

Carla_Danger if these are not interesting to you,
my friend D2 who is in big trouble with needing health care
paid for could benefit from a fundraiser to pay off the house
and some of the costs so he can keep up his treatments.
He is recovering from a broken foot and some other heart or health conditions.

Since he is atheist, he can't do things like turn to Christian friends or churches for help.
He believes in remaining independent, and might accept loans if it isn't going to oblige or burden anyone.

Do you know of a group for atheists to help with charitable fundaising?
If I offered to put up something on gofundme he would refuse my help.

But what if other Atheists did that for a fellow Atheist. He might accept that support.

Do you have any ideas on that. You made me think of that when you replied on the
thread where we were fighting over who is or isn't taking responsibility or playing the victimcard etc.

What if there WAS a support group for Atheists who don't reach out and have fellowship groups like Churches do.
How can Atheists organize to help each other the same way as a likeminded community?

Your Christian friends won't help him because he's an atheist? If he can't turn to his Christian friends, they don't sound like very good friends...or Christians.

I've never looked for an atheist organization that does charity. I suggest using the Google.

I know they have atheist organizations that help with disaster recovery.

Google is your friend.

 

[Carla_Danger]

I'm trying to understand why it's alright to freely exercise one's religion (in schools) on that day but no other

Have you ever considered a private religious school?

Why?
Congress is forbidden from passing any laws that would impede me from exercising my religion.
If we have to resort to only attending private schools, why is my President encouraging all students to exercise their freedom?

Is anyone stopping you from practicing your religion?

My concerns reach beyond myself.
How about my grandkids not being allowed to say "under God" while reciting the Pledge? Or not being able to lead a group of friends in prayer over their Michelle-Obama-approved school lunch?
In a couple years from now my granddaughter won't be able to thank God or pray during her valedictorian speech

Can your grandchildren say "under God" now? Can they not pray before eating lunch?

How do you know this prediction of yours is going to come true? Do you have any evidence?

 

[Carla_Danger]

You're getting your politics mixed up with your religion.

People do this all the time. that's my point. the lines are being crossed between church and state.
exactly. people ARE imposing their beliefs on others using laws and govt to do so.

As soon as we figure out that just because a belief is expressed in "secular terms"
doesn't make it any MORE "politically correct" to impose as a belief expressed in "religious terms"
we might get somewhere toward this concept of
equal protection of the laws
and not discriminating on the basis of creed.

Exactly! people aren't recognizing their beliefs are being imposed on others.
They are too busy fighting when other people's beliefs are imposed on them to see when it is happening mutually.

Then stop.

 

[emilynghiem]

I'm trying to understand why it's alright to freely exercise one's religion (in schools) on that day but no other

Have you ever considered a private religious school?

Why?
Congress is forbidden from passing any laws that would impede me from exercising my religion.
If we have to resort to only attending private schools, why is my President encouraging all students to exercise their freedom?

Is anyone stopping you from practicing your religion?

My concerns reach beyond myself.
How about my grandkids not being allowed to say "under God" while reciting the Pledge? Or not being able to lead a group of friends in prayer over their Michelle-Obama-approved school lunch?
In a couple years from now my granddaughter won't be able to thank God or pray during her valedictorian speech

What we can do is organize community groups and businesses per district, start small and work up,
to BUY out our school districts and lay out long term plans for incorporating as townships, cities, counties, etc.

When you are in charge of your own city and schools, you can shape your own policies.
So start local, organize there and if everyone did that, we'd quit this mess of divide and conquer
where people are so scattered we rely on the federal level to step in and rescue us.

organize by party, by civic association, by nonprofits and schools.
if you can include diverse groups, you can cover more people under a unified network
and prevent another entity from injecting authority by pitting you up against each other so they can control both.

That's why I believe we should organize by party.
To teach people skills in management so we can work toward independence locally
and not keep growing a bigger and bigger federal level to depend on. It should be the other way.
Growing the bottom levels of the pyramid to be the broadest. And and the tiniest positions at the top
are minimal because most of the work, resources and responsibilities are handled by the people
at the local levels running their own programs and communities we own ourselves. We need this to be equal.

 

[BULLDOG]

I'm trying to understand why it's alright to freely exercise one's religion on that day but no other

It's never okay for govt or public institutions to have any prayer or religious show of faith.
Not a cross, a Bible, a reference to God or Heaven. Not on any day of the year.

Only if you happen to agree with the beliefs, such as believing in gay marriage,
then it's justified to use govt to defend THOSE beliefs from discrimination.

But for things like Christmas trees, no, you can't have public money
spent on public schools and have things like that, because that's religious imposition.

Are you just as excited about celebrating religious holidays for other religions? If you do it for Christianity and not for the others, that's the state supporting one religion. Do you want a state run religion?

 

[emilynghiem]

I'm trying to understand why it's alright to freely exercise one's religion (in schools) on that day but no other

Have you ever considered a private religious school?

Why?
Congress is forbidden from passing any laws that would impede me from exercising my religion.
If we have to resort to only attending private schools, why is my President encouraging all students to exercise their freedom?

Is anyone stopping you from practicing your religion?

My concerns reach beyond myself.
How about my grandkids not being allowed to say "under God" while reciting the Pledge? Or not being able to lead a group of friends in prayer over their Michelle-Obama-approved school lunch?
In a couple years from now my granddaughter won't be able to thank God or pray during her valedictorian speech

Can your grandchildren say "under God" now? Can they not pray before eating lunch?

How do you know this prediction of yours is going to come true? Do you have any evidence?

1. cheerleaders had to sue to put scripture references about victory on their school banners
Texas cheerleaders continue court fight over Bible banners - CBS News

2. I can also post a story of a cross that was ordered to be removed,
under fines of up to 5,000 a day, and the group that sued to remove it even BLOCKED
a solution where the land could have been transferred to a private group to PRESERVE the cross where it was.

Mount Soledad cross controversy - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

So not only did they not want the cross on PUBLIC property, they didn't want it TRANSFERRED to a group that could save it without violating the court ruling.

They were AGAINST the cross and AGAINST the religious community preserving it, claiming that was still favoring religion
to let them buy the land.

3. you don't see "health care as a right" as a belief
but for those who do, this law was passed that fines other beliefs in how to pay for health care.
the only beliefs about health care that are exempted are the ones dictated by federal govt laws.
so that is govt REGULATING and discriminating on the basis of creed and religion.

This is an every day reality, that law has been passed, and the enforcement has been delayed
because of objections to that mandate that many like me have explained is unconstitutional on many counts.

 

[emilynghiem]

Are you just as excited about celebrating religious holidays for other religions? If you do it for Christianity and not for the others, that's the state supporting one religion. Do you want a state run religion?

If the public agrees to nationalize religious holidays, then whatever people celebrate is part of their religious freedom.
So yes, anything people want to celebrate is fine.

Just nothing that is illegal -- such as calling the shooting in France part of religious freedom, no, that's still violating
civil laws; and the religions I know of also teach to respect the civil laws of the country. So violations like that
can be shown as violating their own religion if you research and hold people to the full laws.

I do believe we should have a constitutional convention on how to handle political religions
and religious conflicts by mediation and consensus. So there is no more competing for dominance or rejection/exclusion
of any one by any other.

If you want to call Constitutionalism a political belief or religion, even that must be practiced by free choice.
Anything forced on people against their beliefs is going to fall apart. True consensus and law enforcement
is by truly free will, not coercion.

 

[Lakhota]

Religious nuttery and superstitions will eventually fade away.

 

[hortysir]

I'm trying to understand why it's alright to freely exercise one's religion (in schools) on that day but no other

Have you ever considered a private religious school?

Why?
Congress is forbidden from passing any laws that would impede me from exercising my religion.
If we have to resort to only attending private schools, why is my President encouraging all students to exercise their freedom?

Is anyone stopping you from practicing your religion?

My concerns reach beyond myself.
How about my grandkids not being allowed to say "under God" while reciting the Pledge? Or not being able to lead a group of friends in prayer over their Michelle-Obama-approved school lunch?
In a couple years from now my granddaughter won't be able to thank God or pray during her valedictorian speech

Can your grandchildren say "under God" now? Can they not pray before eating lunch?

How do you know this prediction of yours is going to come true? Do you have any evidence?

Google, I think, is what you suggested.
This country is littered with cases of schools censoring any mention of God

 

[Political Junky]

that it's been relegated to a once-a-year holiday.

Religious Freedom Day
Each year, the President declares January 16th to be Religious Freedom Day, and calls upon Americans to "observe this day through appropriate events and activities in homes, schools, and places of worship."

Are you kidding?

Obama and Democrats have raised the standards of freedom to all new heights!

You can even take your personally and religiously held sacred beliefs, such as
the belief that "health care is a right" and impose them by law on the entire nation,
imposing tax penalties on anyone who refuses to follow your mandates.
And require citizens pay tithes to exchanges you create under your beliefs.

Plenty to celebrate there!
Haven't you heard all the screaming and shouts of joy???

Unless you're a Christian.

You mean Christians like Victoria Jackson who cried and wept for the nation when Obama got re-elected?
Nawwww, she was really crying for joy. Just couldn't keep it all in, poor thing!

Victoria Jackson is batshit crazy.

Yep -

 

[Carla_Danger]

Have you ever considered a private religious school?

Why?
Congress is forbidden from passing any laws that would impede me from exercising my religion.
If we have to resort to only attending private schools, why is my President encouraging all students to exercise their freedom?

Is anyone stopping you from practicing your religion?

My concerns reach beyond myself.
How about my grandkids not being allowed to say "under God" while reciting the Pledge? Or not being able to lead a group of friends in prayer over their Michelle-Obama-approved school lunch?
In a couple years from now my granddaughter won't be able to thank God or pray during her valedictorian speech

Can your grandchildren say "under God" now? Can they not pray before eating lunch?

How do you know this prediction of yours is going to come true? Do you have any evidence?

Google, I think, is what you suggested.
This country is littered with cases of schools censoring any mention of God

If you feel that way, then send your child to a religious private school where they can be indoctrinated all day long.

Public schools should not cater to any one religion. Actually, school is a place to get an education. Church is for the study of religion. You can pray with your child before and after school, and go to church 3 times a week. Is that not enough?

Again, if that's not enough, I suggest a private religious school.

 

[emilynghiem]

Why?
Congress is forbidden from passing any laws that would impede me from exercising my religion.
If we have to resort to only attending private schools, why is my President encouraging all students to exercise their freedom?

Is anyone stopping you from practicing your religion?

My concerns reach beyond myself.
How about my grandkids not being allowed to say "under God" while reciting the Pledge? Or not being able to lead a group of friends in prayer over their Michelle-Obama-approved school lunch?
In a couple years from now my granddaughter won't be able to thank God or pray during her valedictorian speech

Can your grandchildren say "under God" now? Can they not pray before eating lunch?

How do you know this prediction of yours is going to come true? Do you have any evidence?

Google, I think, is what you suggested.
This country is littered with cases of schools censoring any mention of God

If you feel that way, then send your child to a religious private school where they can be indoctrinated all day long.

Public schools should not cater to any one religion. Actually, school is a place to get an education. Church is for the study of religion. You can pray with your child before and after school, and go to church 3 times a week. Is that not enough?

Again, if that's not enough, I suggest a private religious school.

Yes, so why can't we all fund the schools of our choice.

You wouldn't want to be forced to fund religious schools teaching things you don't believe in.

Why should other people be forced to fund public schools teaching things they don't believe in.

Why can't we have free choice instead of forcing people to fund things, and then FIGHTING
when we don't agree what to fund or not to fund in the public schools. How do we keep the schools neutral
if they are going to be publicly funded. the minute this "agenda" creeps in that people say is no longer
universal and neutral, why can't we accept and work WITH that. why exclude them and them blame them.

Can you see the bias here?

 

[Carla_Danger]

Is anyone stopping you from practicing your religion?

My concerns reach beyond myself.
How about my grandkids not being allowed to say "under God" while reciting the Pledge? Or not being able to lead a group of friends in prayer over their Michelle-Obama-approved school lunch?
In a couple years from now my granddaughter won't be able to thank God or pray during her valedictorian speech

Can your grandchildren say "under God" now? Can they not pray before eating lunch?

How do you know this prediction of yours is going to come true? Do you have any evidence?

Google, I think, is what you suggested.
This country is littered with cases of schools censoring any mention of God

If you feel that way, then send your child to a religious private school where they can be indoctrinated all day long.

Public schools should not cater to any one religion. Actually, school is a place to get an education. Church is for the study of religion. You can pray with your child before and after school, and go to church 3 times a week. Is that not enough?

Again, if that's not enough, I suggest a private religious school.

Yes, so why can't we all fund the schools of our choice.

You wouldn't want to be forced to fund religious schools teaching things you don't believe in.

Why should other people be forced to fund public schools teaching things they don't believe in.

Why can't we have free choice instead of forcing people to fund things, and then FIGHTING
when we don't agree what to fund or not to fund in the public schools. How do we keep the schools neutral
if they are going to be publicly funded. the minute this "agenda" creeps in that people say is no longer
universal and neutral, why can't we accept and work WITH that. why exclude them and them blame them.

Can you see the bias here?

If you don't want your child going to a public school, then you need to pay the funds and send them to a private school, a school of your choice. No one is stopping you.

 

[hortysir]

Why?
Congress is forbidden from passing any laws that would impede me from exercising my religion.
If we have to resort to only attending private schools, why is my President encouraging all students to exercise their freedom?

Is anyone stopping you from practicing your religion?

My concerns reach beyond myself.
How about my grandkids not being allowed to say "under God" while reciting the Pledge? Or not being able to lead a group of friends in prayer over their Michelle-Obama-approved school lunch?
In a couple years from now my granddaughter won't be able to thank God or pray during her valedictorian speech

Can your grandchildren say "under God" now? Can they not pray before eating lunch?

How do you know this prediction of yours is going to come true? Do you have any evidence?

Google, I think, is what you suggested.
This country is littered with cases of schools censoring any mention of God

If you feel that way, then send your child to a religious private school where they can be indoctrinated all day long.

Public schools should not cater to any one religion. Actually, school is a place to get an education. Church is for the study of religion. You can pray with your child before and after school, and go to church 3 times a week. Is that not enough?

Again, if that's not enough, I suggest a private religious school.

Where have I advocated schools to cater to any particular religion?
Freedom to exercise one's religion applies to every religion and should not dictate when or where someone should be allowed to pray.
Your suggestions that kids should only pray before or after school or go to private schools is exactly the unfair restrictions placed on our freedom to exercise religion.
What part of NO LAW is so difficult to grasp?

 

[TemplarKormac]

I'm trying to understand why it's alright to freely exercise one's religion (in schools) on that day but no other

Have you ever considered a private religious school?

No. If you want to bar people from reading bibles or praying in school, you should go back in time to convince the founders not to write the First Amendment.

 

[TemplarKormac]

My concerns reach beyond myself.
How about my grandkids not being allowed to say "under God" while reciting the Pledge? Or not being able to lead a group of friends in prayer over their Michelle-Obama-approved school lunch?
In a couple years from now my granddaughter won't be able to thank God or pray during her valedictorian speech

Can your grandchildren say "under God" now? Can they not pray before eating lunch?

How do you know this prediction of yours is going to come true? Do you have any evidence?

Google, I think, is what you suggested.
This country is littered with cases of schools censoring any mention of God

If you feel that way, then send your child to a religious private school where they can be indoctrinated all day long.

Public schools should not cater to any one religion. Actually, school is a place to get an education. Church is for the study of religion. You can pray with your child before and after school, and go to church 3 times a week. Is that not enough?

Again, if that's not enough, I suggest a private religious school.

Yes, so why can't we all fund the schools of our choice.

You wouldn't want to be forced to fund religious schools teaching things you don't believe in.

Why should other people be forced to fund public schools teaching things they don't believe in.

Why can't we have free choice instead of forcing people to fund things, and then FIGHTING
when we don't agree what to fund or not to fund in the public schools. How do we keep the schools neutral
if they are going to be publicly funded. the minute this "agenda" creeps in that people say is no longer
universal and neutral, why can't we accept and work WITH that. why exclude them and them blame them.

Can you see the bias here?

If you don't want your child going to a public school, then you need to pay the funds and send them to a private school, a school of your choice. No one is stopping you.

So why is it wrong to practice your faith in a school? And when was it your place to tell other parents how to school their children?

 

[TemplarKormac]

I'm trying to understand why it's alright to freely exercise one's religion on that day but no other

It's never okay for govt or public institutions to have any prayer or religious show of faith.
Not a cross, a Bible, a reference to God or Heaven. Not on any day of the year.

Only if you happen to agree with the beliefs, such as believing in gay marriage,
then it's justified to use govt to defend THOSE beliefs from discrimination.

But for things like Christmas trees, no, you can't have public money
spent on public schools and have things like that, because that's religious imposition.

I had no idea that gay marriage was a religion.

I did not know that "health care as a right" was a BELIEF until I read the Texas Democratic Party platform: "WE BELIEVE" that health care is a right.

I suspected that my beliefs in the Constitution and isonomy constituted a "political religion"
but nothing struck home to me more than recognizing principles in the Democratic platform
as spelling out what the "political beliefs" or "political religion" is of the party. I can only guess
the Republican platform is the same way, but at least they succeeded in changing their language to be more inclusive. I wish I could say the same for Democrats.
--------------------------
So yes, when you take a belief and you institutionalize it for people to BELIEVE in and adopt,
or you start harassing and even suing people who don't share your religiously held beliefs,
you are like declaring civil jihad on people.

Either believe as we do, or you are an infidel and should be cut off from having rights!
ALLAH GAYBAR!

Healthcare is not a religion. This thread is about religion/religious freedom day.

No, it isn't. But you worship the ground Obama walks on.