Remembering Robert E. Lee: American Patriot and Southern Hero

[bripat9643]

It wasn't another country. No one recognized it as such.

You can't just let states take federal property. That is property of the whole of the people.

What if Kentucky decided to just declare independence and say, hey, Fort Knox belongs to us now. Too bad.

Can't do it. Besides, as I showed earlier, South Carolina ceded all rights to Fort Sumter in 1836. It wasn't hers to just take.

Nor were the forts and military instillations or the Mint filled with Gold they seized. Or the US Ships they fired on, and captured for their own use as Man of War vessels in January 1861.

You can't just go stealing federal government property and say: hey, it's ours now. Go fuck yourselves.

Puhleeze. Foreign recognition doesn't mean a damn thing. On the one hand you turds insist secession isn't allowed, and then on the other you don't give a hoot about the heinous violations of the Constitution Lincoln committed against Southerners if that claim were true.

The hypocrisy is unbelievable. Lincoln worshippers are the lowest kind if scum there is.

Just imagine the hate these folks must hold for the sons of liberty. I mean, what vile, treasonous fucks those guys were. Bucking the established rule.

I thought when we did that and banished the tyrants, we had won. Only come to find out that tyrants are every where. once they established their own version of the King in the "United" States, they could do whatever they please and sycophants would cheer.

I imagine those who hate confederates today must hold the same disdain fro those who fought the British. Then agin, hypocrites abound!

The "Sons of Liberty" settled the question at the Convention.

Yes. the direct question, when posed, was answered when NY was considering it's ratification of the Constitution. At that time it was proposed:

"there should be reserved to the state of New York a right to withdraw herself from the union after a certain number of years." A vote was taken, and it was negatived.

http://teachingamericanhistory.org/r...wyork0723.html

Historian Amar goes on to explain the pivotal moment of agreement:
But exactly how were these states united? Did a state that said yes in the 1780's retain the right to unilaterally say no later on, and thereby secede? If not, why not?

Once again, it was in New York that the answer emerged most emphatically. At the outset of the Poughkeepsie convention, anti-Federalists held a strong majority. The tide turned when word arrived that New Hampshire and Virginia had said yes to the Constitution, at which point anti-Federalists proposed a compromise: they would vote to ratify, but if the new federal government failed to embrace various reforms that they favored, "there should be reserved to the state of New York a right to withdraw herself from the union after a certain number of years."

At the risk of alienating swing voters and losing on the ultimate ratification vote, Federalists emphatically opposed the compromise.

In doing so, they made clear to everyone - in New York and in the 12 other states where people were following the New York contest with interest - that the Constitution did not permit unilateral state secession.

Alexander Hamilton read aloud a letter at the Poughkeepsie convention that he had received from James Madison stating that "the Constitution requires an adoption in toto, and for ever." Hamilton and John Jay then added their own words, which the New York press promptly reprinted: "a reservation of a right to withdraw" was "inconsistent with the Constitution, and was no ratification."

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Thus, it was New York where the document became an irresistible reality and where its central meaning - one nation, democratic and indivisible - emerged with crystal clarity."

Conventional Wisdom--A Commentary by Prof. Akhil Amar Yale Law School

That's their opinion and nothing more. However, everyone can read for themselves what the document actually says.

 

[bripat9643]

Just because you call yourself a country, doesn't make you one.

Yeah, only the British..er, the Federal, er the King er whoever is in charge gets to make that call. You're not free people, you fucks! You belong to the King Lincoln!

If you are too ignorant as to what makes a country a country, maybe your ancetors were just as stupid and actually fought a war based on that stupidity.
Ultimately that stupidity resulted in their traitorous asses becoming maggot stew...

Explain it to us: what makes a country a country?

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Looking forward to Lincoln's birthday - gonna be a great follow-up bash to MLK's birthday.

What a GREAT two days!!!!!!

Make sure the wax likeness on the cake includes a bullet hole in his face. You know.... For historical accuracy and all that.

 

[Ravi]

Irrelevant. Firing of foreign troops trespassing on your territory is not an act of war.

You turds will repeat this mantra endlessly: "they fired the first shots. They fired the first shots. They fired the first shots." You obviously don't give a damn about the facts or international law. You're spewing Lincoln propaganda, just as they did 150 years ago.

Do you ever look at what you type before you click "post reply"?

One wonders how the troops were decided to be" foreign".

They were union troops. SC was a sovereign country after it seceded.

Ft. Sumter belonged to the United States, NOT, to South Carolina. In fact, South Caroline passed legislation in 1836 stating that they were ceding Ft. Sumter to the federal government.

Therefore, there were no foreign troops on Ft. Sumter.

We've already been through this, and your idiocy has been proven wrong a dozen times.

Nope. SC wanted the protection and didn't want to foot the bill for that protection. They screwed the pooch in more ways than one.

 

[bripat9643]

It wasn't another country. No one recognized it as such.

You can't just let states take federal property. That is property of the whole of the people.

What if Kentucky decided to just declare independence and say, hey, Fort Knox belongs to us now. Too bad.

Can't do it. Besides, as I showed earlier, South Carolina ceded all rights to Fort Sumter in 1836. It wasn't hers to just take.

Nor were the forts and military instillations or the Mint filled with Gold they seized. Or the US Ships they fired on, and captured for their own use as Man of War vessels in January 1861.

You can't just go stealing federal government property and say: hey, it's ours now. Go fuck yourselves.

Puhleeze. Foreign recognition doesn't mean a damn thing. On the one hand you turds insist secession isn't allowed, and then on the other you don't give a hoot about the heinous violations of the Constitution Lincoln committed against Southerners if that claim were true.

The hypocrisy is unbelievable. Lincoln worshippers are the lowest kind if scum there is.

Just because you call yourself a country, doesn't make you one.

That's your opinion. The Founding Fathers disagreed.

And in case you missed this one from earlier (maybe you didn't, but just had no way to reply) -

Here's a goodun' for ya. Ten years before the war, 1850 - 51, when South Carolina was flouting around with secession and held their Convention - but couldn't get the other states to join them --

Lookie here, Mississippi held a Convention too, and what did they say?

"Resolved, further, 4th, That, in the opinion of this Convention, the asserted right of secession from the Union, on the part of a State or States, is utterly unsanctioned by the Federal Constitution, which was framed to establish, and not destroy, the Union of the States; and that no secession can, in fact, take place, without a subversion of the Union established, and which will not virtually amount, in its effects and consequences, to a civil revolution."

- 1851 Mississippi Secession Convention

Source: The Rebellion Record a diary of american events with documents narratives ... - frank moore - Google Books
http://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/...c30779/m1/117/

Ten years earlier Southerners were saying secession was Unconstitutional. Howzabout that?

Irrelevant. Plenty of other events and people indicate that secession was perfectly legal. Note: your cite claims that secession is "unsanctioned," not illegal.

lol.

More
Lost Cause babbling. If it makes you feel better blabber on. Won't change the fact of history.

Nor the fact had we not succeeded in keeping the Union together, you wouldn't be here right now, able to babble about what has become the greatest and most powerful country in the world.

Yeah, right, if things had been different, then things would have been different. Brilliant.

You didn't counter my argument so you must be conceding it.

 

[bripat9643]

Do you ever look at what you type before you click "post reply"?

One wonders how the troops were decided to be" foreign".

They were union troops. SC was a sovereign country after it seceded.

Ft. Sumter belonged to the United States, NOT, to South Carolina. In fact, South Caroline passed legislation in 1836 stating that they were ceding Ft. Sumter to the federal government.

Therefore, there were no foreign troops on Ft. Sumter.

We've already been through this, and your idiocy has been proven wrong a dozen times.

Nope. SC wanted the protection and didn't want to foot the bill for that protection. They screwed the pooch in more ways than one.

Hmmm . . wrong. You're a moron.

 

[paperview]

Confederates crying for their "Freedom" to subjugate a whole race of people.

Four million slaves. Not even classed as citizens. This includes Free Blacks who needed passes just to travel, prevented them from owning arms, and a whole arrays of Codes that denied them rights.

Just shy of 4 million owned, traded and sold as a farmer does a cow.

Never mind their wholesale stomping on First Amendment rights / Freedom of the press / Freedom of Speech for decades before the war - for the majority of those they did allow citizenship.

They were more authoritarian than the "tyrants" they rebelled against.

 

[Ravi]

One wonders how the troops were decided to be" foreign".

They were union troops. SC was a sovereign country after it seceded.

Ft. Sumter belonged to the United States, NOT, to South Carolina. In fact, South Caroline passed legislation in 1836 stating that they were ceding Ft. Sumter to the federal government.

Therefore, there were no foreign troops on Ft. Sumter.

We've already been through this, and your idiocy has been proven wrong a dozen times.

Nope. SC wanted the protection and didn't want to foot the bill for that protection. They screwed the pooch in more ways than one.

Hmmm . . wrong. You're a moron.

Could be true, but I'm less of a moron than you. You didn't even know that little tidbit of history. Try to educate yourself next time you want to whine about the epic failure of the southern states.

 

[bripat9643]

They were union troops. SC was a sovereign country after it seceded.

Ft. Sumter belonged to the United States, NOT, to South Carolina. In fact, South Caroline passed legislation in 1836 stating that they were ceding Ft. Sumter to the federal government.

Therefore, there were no foreign troops on Ft. Sumter.

We've already been through this, and your idiocy has been proven wrong a dozen times.

Nope. SC wanted the protection and didn't want to foot the bill for that protection. They screwed the pooch in more ways than one.

Hmmm . . wrong. You're a moron.

Could be true, but I'm less of a moron than you. You didn't even know that little tidbit of history. Try to educate yourself next time you want to whine about the epic failure of the southern states.

You're the one who doesn't know the facts about that "tidbit" of history. I've already submitted several posts on the subject including cites of historical documents.

 

[bripat9643]

Confederates crying for their "Freedom" to subjugate a whole race of people.

Four million slaves. Not even classed as citizens. This includes Free Blacks who needed passes just to travel, prevented them from owning arms, and a whole arrays of Codes that denied them rights.

Just shy of 4 million owned, traded and sold as a farmer does a cow.

Never mind their wholesale stomping on First Amendment rights / Freedom of the press / Freedom of Speech for decades before the war - for the majority of those they did allow citizenship.

They were more authoritarian than the "tyrants" they rebelled against.

Hmmm, no they weren't. You think blacks were treated like equals in the North? Many states had black codes that sometimes made it impossible for them to live in those states. Northerners were probably more racist than Southerners.

Slavery was the law of the land. Your liberal forfathers agreed to that.

 

[reconmark]

US Senator brags about killing to spread slavery. Then kills to spread slavery. His speech should be in every US text book.

He also made it a crime to speak against slavery.


He also made it a crime -- really, we show you -- to not sign a card promising you are pro slavery. Men were arrested and tortured for not signing that card.

 

[paperview]

Confederates crying for their "Freedom" to subjugate a whole race of people.

Four million slaves. Not even classed as citizens. This includes Free Blacks who needed passes just to travel, prevented them from owning arms, and a whole arrays of Codes that denied them rights.

Just shy of 4 million owned, traded and sold as a farmer does a cow.

Never mind their wholesale stomping on First Amendment rights / Freedom of the press / Freedom of Speech for decades before the war - for the majority of those they did allow citizenship.

They were more authoritarian than the "tyrants" they rebelled against.

Hmmm, no they weren't. You think blacks were treated like equals in the North? Many states had black codes that sometimes made it impossible to live in those states. Northerners were probably more racist than Southerners.

....

They treated them better than your heroes who wanted to own them as farm property and rape their women and children.

 

[kaz]

The southern states wanted war long before Lincoln ever stepped into office.

They wanted to leave the union. You seriously think they wanted war even if the union let them go? Why would they?

 

[bripat9643]

US Senator brags about killing to spread slavery. Then kills to spread slavery. His speech should be in every US text book.

He also made it a crime to speak against slavery.


He also made it a crime -- really, we show you -- to not sign a card promising you are pro slavery. Men were arrested and tortured for not signing that card.

Lincoln shut down any newspaper the criticized his administration or his policies - over 300 hundred of them. He also threw people into concentration camps merely for not showing enough enthusiasm for his policies. Lincoln worshippers are hardly in a position to be attacking the South on free speech issues.

 

[Ravi]

Ft. Sumter belonged to the United States, NOT, to South Carolina. In fact, South Caroline passed legislation in 1836 stating that they were ceding Ft. Sumter to the federal government.

Therefore, there were no foreign troops on Ft. Sumter.

We've already been through this, and your idiocy has been proven wrong a dozen times.

Nope. SC wanted the protection and didn't want to foot the bill for that protection. They screwed the pooch in more ways than one.

Hmmm . . wrong. You're a moron.

Could be true, but I'm less of a moron than you. You didn't even know that little tidbit of history. Try to educate yourself next time you want to whine about the epic failure of the southern states.

You're the one who doesn't know the facts about that "tidbit" of history. I've already submitted several posts on the subject including cites of historical documents.

Nothing you've posted disproves the fact that in 1836 South Carolina enacted legislation that ceded Ft. Sumter to the Federal government.

 

[reconmark]

Confederates crying for their "Freedom" to subjugate a whole race of people.

Four million slaves. Not even classed as citizens. This includes Free Blacks who needed passes just to travel, prevented them from owning arms, and a whole arrays of Codes that denied them rights.

Just shy of 4 million owned, traded and sold as a farmer does a cow.

Never mind their wholesale stomping on First Amendment rights / Freedom of the press / Freedom of Speech for decades before the war - for the majority of those they did allow citizenship.

They were more authoritarian than the "tyrants" they rebelled against.

Hmmm, no they weren't. You think blacks were treated like equals in the North? Many states had black codes that sometimes made it impossible to live in those states. Northerners were probably more racist than Southerners.

....

They treated them better than your heroes who wanted to own them as farm property and rape their women and children.

I think brit may be so upset because his ancestors even at that time were too stupid and lazy to grow wealthy on the backs of slaves.
He longs for the days of easy money falling into the hands of inbred cousins...

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

They were union troops. SC was a sovereign country after it seceded.

Ft. Sumter belonged to the United States, NOT, to South Carolina. In fact, South Caroline passed legislation in 1836 stating that they were ceding Ft. Sumter to the federal government.

Therefore, there were no foreign troops on Ft. Sumter.

We've already been through this, and your idiocy has been proven wrong a dozen times.

Nope. SC wanted the protection and didn't want to foot the bill for that protection. They screwed the pooch in more ways than one.

Hmmm . . wrong. You're a moron.

Could be true, but I'm less of a moron than you. You didn't even know that little tidbit of history. Try to educate yourself next time you want to whine about the epic failure of the southern states.

Wow, that's a neat trick, making something up and then chiding people for not knowing it too. I see what you did there.

 

[Toro]

Confederates crying for their "Freedom" to subjugate a whole race of people.

Four million slaves. Not even classed as citizens. This includes Free Blacks who needed passes just to travel, prevented them from owning arms, and a whole arrays of Codes that denied them rights.

Just shy of 4 million owned, traded and sold as a farmer does a cow.

Never mind their wholesale stomping on First Amendment rights / Freedom of the press / Freedom of Speech for decades before the war - for the majority of those they did allow citizenship.

They were more authoritarian than the "tyrants" they rebelled against.

Second Amendment rights too, apparently, if free blacks weren't allowed to own firearms.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Confederates crying for their "Freedom" to subjugate a whole race of people.

Four million slaves. Not even classed as citizens. This includes Free Blacks who needed passes just to travel, prevented them from owning arms, and a whole arrays of Codes that denied them rights.

Just shy of 4 million owned, traded and sold as a farmer does a cow.

Never mind their wholesale stomping on First Amendment rights / Freedom of the press / Freedom of Speech for decades before the war - for the majority of those they did allow citizenship.

They were more authoritarian than the "tyrants" they rebelled against.

Hmmm, no they weren't. You think blacks were treated like equals in the North? Many states had black codes that sometimes made it impossible to live in those states. Northerners were probably more racist than Southerners.

....

They treated them better than your heroes who wanted to own them as farm property and rape their women and children.

I think brit may be so upset because his ancestors even at that time were too stupid and lazy to grow wealthy on the backs of slaves.
He longs for the days of easy money falling into the hands of inbred cousins...

Idiot.

 

[reconmark]

US Senator brags about killing to spread slavery. Then kills to spread slavery. His speech should be in every US text book.

He also made it a crime to speak against slavery.


He also made it a crime -- really, we show you -- to not sign a card promising you are pro slavery. Men were arrested and tortured for not signing that card.

Lincoln shut down any newspaper the criticized his administration or his policies - over 300 hundred of them. He also threw people into concentration camps merely for not showing enough enthusiasm for his policies. Lincoln worshippers are hardly in a position to be attacking the South on free speech issues.

As usual you ignorance can't refute fact so the attempt at deflection begins.
It can't deflect from the fact that these inbred cousin fuckers fought to maintain slavery...they admit it from their own mouths.