Remembering Robert E. Lee: American Patriot and Southern Hero

[bripat9643]

The southern states wanted war long before Lincoln ever stepped into office.

Wrong. They wanted to secede peacefully. Lincoln wanted war. He deliberately instigated the war.

Firing on ships and seizing forts and arsenals all across the South before Lincoln was even inaugurated isn't peacefull.

It may not be peaceful, but it isn't an act of war if those ships and the men in those forts are trespassing on your territory.

 

[bripat9643]

Lincoln wanted war and he got it. Nobody's immune from the wars they start and their consequences.

Why did he want war?

To restore the status quo, including leaving slavery intact. Thanks for asking.

Please be a little more detailed. Restore what status quo?

Keep in mind that there would have been no war if the southern states hadn't seceded.

There would have been no war if Lincoln hadn't invaded Virginia.

Wrong...the first shots were fired by the Southerners in South Carolina.....cowardly shots too.

Kicking out foreign troops trespassing on your territory is not an act of war.

 

[paperview]

That was clearly illegal. Charging Lee with treason would not have been illegal.

Lincoln wanted war and he got it. Nobody's immune from the wars they start and their consequences.

Why did he want war?

To restore the status quo, including leaving slavery intact. Thanks for asking.

Please be a little more detailed. Restore what status quo?

Keep in mind that there would have been no war if the southern states hadn't seceded.

There would have been war no matter what happened with Lincoln's election. His base electoral pledge was no slavery in the territories. The south saw the writing on the wall. They were going to go in November. The first succession was SC in december, I believe Dec 4
The were going to to.

Yes.

The South seceded because they had been itchin to...

The fires were burning many, many years before 1861, This is fact.

The slavery issue was a major one in the preceding presidential election. (not to mention the high intensity of the full 1850's decade...)

The South was itching for a fight, and they intended to take it home over that issue.

Let's go back, 4 years earlier, to just before the November, 1856 election.
Here is an article from ----> OCT 1856, from the New York Times, quoting a Richmond editorial, entitled: LOOK THE FUTURE IN THE FACE
...where future secessionists threaten war and the evil of what they term "Black Republicanism" (their term for the Republicans who favored emancipation ) is castigated, and where they predict, nay - taunt, the coming bloodbath.

I present a picture of the actual paper below...read it:

Here is the top line:

It begins:

"The Southern political Press has never been more open and frank in its avowal of political purposes and plans, than it is during the present canvass.

The triumphs of Slavery during the past four years,--the successful repeal of the Missouri Compromise, a measure for which oven Mr. CALHOUN never dared to hope,--and the ready, eager promptitude with which the Democratic party at Cincinnati yielded to the exactions of the Slaveholding power, seemed to have inspired the political leaders of the South with the belief, that time has come when they can safely and even with advantage to themselves, make open proclamation of the projects they have in store for the future.

....We invite attention to the following lead editorial from Richmond (the NY Times here quotes from the Southern paper) where Southerners state: "'Tis treason to cry "Peace!" "peace!" when there is no peace. There is, there can be, no peace, no lasting union between the south and Black Republicanism."
And they go on:
Forewarned...Forearmed!" We see the numbers, the characters, the designs of our enemies/ Let us prepare to resist them and drive them back

....A common danger from without, and a common necessity (Slavery) within,
will be sure to make the South a great, a united, a vigilant and a warlike people."
..

",...the division is sure to take place...Socialism, communism, infidelity,licentiousness and agrarianism, now scarcely suppressed by union with the conservative South will burst forth in a carnival of blood..."
Those were the Southern sentiments well before the Confederates started seizing forts and arsenals and firing on Unions ships in January of 1861. They continue:

"The great object of the South in supporting Buchanan is to promote and extend the perpetuation of the "conservative institution of Slavery." And the votes by which it is hoped he may be elected, are to become the basis of a secession movement and the formation of a Southern Slave Confederacy...

See the full newspaper article here: (!) Bold Avowals--The Election of Buchanan to be a Stop Towards Disunion. - Article - NYTimes.com


1856. Itchin' itchin itchin.

 

[bripat9643]

South Carolina fired the first shots. and they did so to protect the institution of slavery:

"The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution. "
Avalon Project - Confederate States of America - Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union

"The new Constitution has put at rest forever all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institutions—African slavery as it exists among us—the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution."
- Alexander Stephens - Vice President of the Confederacy

Alexander Stephens Reinforces The Cornerstone

Irrelevant. Firing of foreign troops trespassing on your territory is not an act of war.

You turds will repeat this mantra endlessly: "they fired the first shots. They fired the first shots. They fired the first shots." You obviously don't give a damn about the facts or international law. You're spewing Lincoln propaganda, just as they did 150 years ago.

 

[nodoginnafight]

The neo-confederates HAVE to try to re-write history.
Because the actual history is indefensible.

 

[bodecea]

The southern states wanted war long before Lincoln ever stepped into office.

Wrong. They wanted to secede peacefully. Lincoln wanted war. He deliberately instigated the war.

Firing on ships and seizing forts and arsenals all across the South before Lincoln was even inaugurated isn't peacefull.

They never did take Fort Pickens in Florida.

 

[bodecea]

South Carolina fired the first shots. and they did so to protect the institution of slavery:

"The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution. "
Avalon Project - Confederate States of America - Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union

"The new Constitution has put at rest forever all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institutions—African slavery as it exists among us—the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution."
- Alexander Stephens - Vice President of the Confederacy

Alexander Stephens Reinforces The Cornerstone

Irrelevant. Firing of foreign troops trespassing on your territory is not an act of war.

You turds will repeat this mantra endlessly: "they fired the first shots. They fired the first shots. They fired the first shots." You obviously don't give a damn about the facts or international law. You're spewing Lincoln propaganda, just as they did 150 years ago.

Do you ever look at what you type before you click "post reply"?

 

[nodoginnafight]

The southern states wanted war long before Lincoln ever stepped into office.

Wrong. They wanted to secede peacefully. Lincoln wanted war. He deliberately instigated the war.

Firing on ships and seizing forts and arsenals all across the South before Lincoln was even inaugurated isn't peacefull.

They never did take Fort Pickens in Florida.

We never said they were EFFECTIVE traitors.

 

[bripat9643]

Lincoln wanted war and he got it. Nobody's immune from the wars they start and their consequences.

Why did he want war?

To restore the status quo, including leaving slavery intact. Thanks for asking.

Please be a little more detailed. Restore what status quo?

Keep in mind that there would have been no war if the southern states hadn't seceded.

There would have been war no matter what happened with Lincoln's election. His base electoral pledge was no slavery in the territories. The south saw the writing on the wall. They were going to go in November. The first succession was SC in december, I believe Dec 4
The were going to to.

Yes.

The South seceded because they had been itchin to...

The fires were burning many, many years before 1861, This is fact.

The slavery issue was a major one in the preceding presidential election. (not to mention the high intensity of the full 1850's decade...)

The South was itching for a fight, and they intended to take it home over that issue.

Let's go back, 4 years earlier, to just before the November, 1856 election.
Here is an article from ----> OCT 1856, from the New York Times, quoting a Richmond editorial, entitled: LOOK THE FUTURE IN THE FACE
...where future secessionists threaten war and the evil of what they term "Black Republicanism" (their term for the Republicans who favored emancipation ) is castigated, and where they predict, nay - taunt, the coming bloodbath.

I present a picture of the actual paper below...read it:

Here is the top line:

It begins:

"The Southern political Press has never been more open and frank in its avowal of political purposes and plans, than it is during the present canvass.

The triumphs of Slavery during the past four years,--the successful repeal of the Missouri Compromise, a measure for which oven Mr. CALHOUN never dared to hope,--and the ready, eager promptitude with which the Democratic party at Cincinnati yielded to the exactions of the Slaveholding power, seemed to have inspired the political leaders of the South with the belief, that time has come when they can safely and even with advantage to themselves, make open proclamation of the projects they have in store for the future.

....We invite attention to the following lead editorial from Richmond (the NY Times here quotes from the Southern paper) where Southerners state: "'Tis treason to cry "Peace!" "peace!" when there is no peace. There is, there can be, no peace, no lasting union between the south and Black Republicanism."
And they go on:
Forewarned...Forearmed!" We see the numbers, the characters, the designs of our enemies/ Let us prepare to resist them and drive them back

....A common danger from without, and a common necessity (Slavery) within,
will be sure to make the South a great, a united, a vigilant and a warlike people."
..

",...the division is sure to take place...Socialism, communism, infidelity,licentiousness and agrarianism, now scarcely suppressed by union with the conservative South will burst forth in a carnival of blood..."
Those were the Southern sentiments well before the Confederates started seizing forts and arsenals and firing on Unions ships in January of 1861. They continue:

"The great object of the South in supporting Buchanan is to promote and extend the perpetuation of the "conservative institution of Slavery." And the votes by which it is hoped he may be elected, are to become the basis of a secession movement and the formation of a Southern Slave Confederacy...

See the full newspaper article here: (!) Bold Avowals--The Election of Buchanan to be a Stop Towards Disunion. - Article - NYTimes.com


1856. Itchin' itchin itchin.

You're great at posting a lot or irrelevant propaganda. Wanting to secede and wanting war are two separate things. However, your propaganda depends on them being one and the same.

It's pointless to argue with all you deliberate ignoramuses because you don't even bother to respond to the points made.

 

[paperview]

It wasn't another country. No one recognized it as such.

You can't just let states take federal property. That is property of the whole of the people.

What if Kentucky decided to just declare independence and say, hey, Fort Knox belongs to us now. Too bad.

Can't do it. Besides, as I showed earlier, South Carolina ceded all rights to Fort Sumter in 1836. It wasn't hers to just take.

Nor were the forts and military instillations or the Mint filled with Gold they seized. Or the US Ships they fired on, and captured for their own use as Man of War vessels in January 1861.

You can't just go stealing federal government property and say: hey, it's ours now. Go fuck yourselves.

 

[Ravi]

South Carolina fired the first shots. and they did so to protect the institution of slavery:

"The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution. "
Avalon Project - Confederate States of America - Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union

"The new Constitution has put at rest forever all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institutions—African slavery as it exists among us—the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution."
- Alexander Stephens - Vice President of the Confederacy

Alexander Stephens Reinforces The Cornerstone

Irrelevant. Firing of foreign troops trespassing on your territory is not an act of war.

You turds will repeat this mantra endlessly: "they fired the first shots. They fired the first shots. They fired the first shots." You obviously don't give a damn about the facts or international law. You're spewing Lincoln propaganda, just as they did 150 years ago.

Do you ever look at what you type before you click "post reply"?

One wonders how the troops were decided to be" foreign".

 

[bripat9643]

South Carolina fired the first shots. and they did so to protect the institution of slavery:

"The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution. "
Avalon Project - Confederate States of America - Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union

"The new Constitution has put at rest forever all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institutions—African slavery as it exists among us—the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution."
- Alexander Stephens - Vice President of the Confederacy

Alexander Stephens Reinforces The Cornerstone

Irrelevant. Firing of foreign troops trespassing on your territory is not an act of war.

You turds will repeat this mantra endlessly: "they fired the first shots. They fired the first shots. They fired the first shots." You obviously don't give a damn about the facts or international law. You're spewing Lincoln propaganda, just as they did 150 years ago.

Do you ever look at what you type before you click "post reply"?

That should be "firing on foreign troops," and yes, I read it. What part of that do you object to? Do you think if Hitler sends tanks into Poland that the Poles are starting a war by firing on them?

 

[bripat9643]

South Carolina fired the first shots. and they did so to protect the institution of slavery:

"The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution. "
Avalon Project - Confederate States of America - Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union

"The new Constitution has put at rest forever all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institutions—African slavery as it exists among us—the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution."
- Alexander Stephens - Vice President of the Confederacy

Alexander Stephens Reinforces The Cornerstone

Irrelevant. Firing of foreign troops trespassing on your territory is not an act of war.

You turds will repeat this mantra endlessly: "they fired the first shots. They fired the first shots. They fired the first shots." You obviously don't give a damn about the facts or international law. You're spewing Lincoln propaganda, just as they did 150 years ago.

Do you ever look at what you type before you click "post reply"?

One wonders how the troops were decided to be" foreign".

They were union troops. SC was a sovereign country after it seceded.

 

[nodoginnafight]

It wasn't another country. No one recognized it as such.

You can't just let states take federal property. That is property of the whole of the people.

What if Kentucky decided to just declare independence and say, hey, Fort Knox belongs to us now. Too bad.

Can't do it. Besides, as I showed earlier, South Carolina ceded all rights to Fort Sumter in 1836. It wasn't hers to just take.

Nor were the forts and military instillations or the Mint filled with Gold they seized. Or the US Ships they fired on, and captured for their own use as Man of War vessels in January 1861.

You can't just go stealing federal government property and say: hey, it's ours now. Go fuck yourselves.

Paperview,
Deep down they really do know their history (I think). They just feel a compelling need to re-write it.

Either that or they are just stupid.

Either way, facts will not change their minds.

But we'll keep trying.

 

[nodoginnafight]

Hey, anyone other than Britpat wanna try to re-write history here?

He has been thoroughly trounced by the words of the Confederates themselves.

Anyone else wanna try?

 

[bripat9643]

It wasn't another country. No one recognized it as such.

You can't just let states take federal property. That is property of the whole of the people.

What if Kentucky decided to just declare independence and say, hey, Fort Knox belongs to us now. Too bad.

Can't do it. Besides, as I showed earlier, South Carolina ceded all rights to Fort Sumter in 1836. It wasn't hers to just take.

Nor were the forts and military instillations or the Mint filled with Gold they seized. Or the US Ships they fired on, and captured for their own use as Man of War vessels in January 1861.

You can't just go stealing federal government property and say: hey, it's ours now. Go fuck yourselves.

Puhleeze. Foreign recognition doesn't mean a damn thing. On the one hand you turds insist secession isn't allowed, and then on the other you don't give a hoot about the heinous violations of the Constitution Lincoln committed against Southerners if that claim were true.

The hypocrisy is unbelievable. Lincoln worshippers are the lowest kind if scum there is.

 

[bripat9643]

South Carolina fired the first shots. and they did so to protect the institution of slavery:

"The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution. "
Avalon Project - Confederate States of America - Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union

"The new Constitution has put at rest forever all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institutions—African slavery as it exists among us—the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution."
- Alexander Stephens - Vice President of the Confederacy

Alexander Stephens Reinforces The Cornerstone

Irrelevant. Firing of foreign troops trespassing on your territory is not an act of war.

You turds will repeat this mantra endlessly: "they fired the first shots. They fired the first shots. They fired the first shots." You obviously don't give a damn about the facts or international law. You're spewing Lincoln propaganda, just as they did 150 years ago.

Do you ever look at what you type before you click "post reply"?

One wonders how the troops were decided to be" foreign".

One wonders how you manage to function without a brain.

 

[nodoginnafight]

Looking forward to Lincoln's birthday - gonna be a great follow-up bash to MLK's birthday.

What a GREAT two days!!!!!!

 

[bripat9643]

Hey, anyone other than Britpat wanna try to re-write history here?

He has been thoroughly trounced by the words of the Confederates themselves.

Anyone else wanna try?

I love the way you turds delude yourselves to believe you're winning. You haven't won a single point. You just keep repeating the same already exploded claims over and over again.

 

[paperview]

"Secession is nothing but revolution.

The framers of our Constitution never exhausted so much labor, wisdom, and forbearance in its formation, and surrounded it with so many guards and securities, if it was intended to be broken by every member of the Confederacy at will.

It was intended for “perpetual union,” so expressed in the preamble, and for the establishment of a government, not a compact, which can only be dissolved by revolution or the consent of all the people in convention assembled."

- Robert E. Lee, January 23, 1861