Revisionist history focusing on 1/6 is getting louder.

[elektra]

Ok, let's walk through this. Let's say YOU'RE that cop. A mob of 100 or more rush you. You unload your service weapon and take out maybe a dozen or so. What happens to you after you discharge your last bullet; assuming someone hasn't already wrestled your own gun from you or shot you with theirs?

We do not have to walk through an imaginary scenario, we have a real scenario.

But I will play along. Yes I am part of a mob, They rush a police officer (I dont like the name, cop). I see not one or two people fall dead, being shot by the police officer, I see a 7 people fall dead, in seconds. I am next, the Police Officer has reloaded, and I can see the gunshot fire has brought a full platoon of police to our location.

I would not proceed further, seeing 7 people die in seconds, with me to be the next. The crowd behind me, seeing me run away, certainly many would run away.

Than of course the police officer will take cover (not concealment) and proceed to kill 5 more, at which point the police platoon will have opened fire with shotguns and assault weapons.

Now it does sound like crickets, with the crowd dead and scattered.

 

[Billiejeens]

How?

Seriously?
Jesus Christ

I have been telling you - it's all in the timing.

What was about to happen in Congress when Scaffold Commander starting imploring people to go inside?

 

[Billiejeens]

And yet Trump is the favored to win the election in November.

He was a spectacular President.

 

[Marener]

Seriously?
Jesus Christ

I have been telling you - it's all in the timing.

What was about to happen in Congress when Scaffold Commander starting imploring people to go inside?

What was happening in Congress? They were debating the objection to counting Arizona’s electoral votes for a few hours and then they were going to vote to keep them.

Go on. Now what?

 

[OldFlame]

If you’re saying Sund is accusing the FBI and DHS of wanting the riot, please tell me how he came to this conclusion.

I'd guess it's based on his years of experience in handling prior and similar events in DC and the kind of intelligence he received for those events, not to mention cooperation among other law enforcement agencies and his chain of command. Why don't you buy his book and read it?

Tell me how your committee came to the conclusion that every US intelligence agency just 'dropped the ball' on 1/6/21? Guess we're not very safe, and those agencies are a waste of tax payer money. Who wrote that report? Who was on the committee?

 

[Billiejeens]

Exactly.

The were a group of amateur TV executive producers who literally hired a professional producer named Jon Goldston to make an evening drama - starring themselves of course.

Correct -

There was literally no investigation.

It was an infomercial -

Here, buy this idea.
No one that didn't already have stock in that idea, bought it.

 

[Billiejeens]

What was happening in Congress? They were debating the objection to counting Arizona’s electoral votes for a few hours and then they were going to vote to keep them.

Go on. Now what?

The objections were never actually heard, were they.
The chaos stopped that.

 

[Billiejeens]

Anyone who had reason to not want any questions asked about election anomalies greatly benefited from getting this narrative out.

This.

 

[Marener]

I'd guess it's based on his years of experience in handling prior and similar events in DC and the kind of intelligence he received for those events, not to mention cooperation among other law enforcement agencies and his chain of command. Why don't you buy his book and read it?

Tell me how your committee came to the conclusion that every US intelligence agency just 'dropped the ball' on 1/6/21? Guess we're not very safe, and those agencies are a waste of tax payer money. Who wrote that report? Who was on the committee?

We both agree that the coordination didn’t happen.

But how did he conclude that the motivation behind the lack of coordination was malice and not incompetence?

The committee interviewed the relevant people from the intelligence agencies. That’s how they came to that conclusion. The committee members are listed on the documents provided.

Did Sund interview anyone?

If you want to claim that the intelligence agencies are pretty shoddy, you won’t find an argument from me. To be honest, I think the FBI is probably was little gun shy to take too aggressive a stance against Trump supporters given the blowback they’ve gotten from Republicans.

 

[Marener]

The objections were never actually heard, were they.
The chaos stopped that.

Yes they were. And the objections were voted down.

We all knew the objections wouldn’t succeed. Are you denying this?

 

[Chillicothe]

And you, being the idiot you are, believe that there aren't any protocols, policies, regulations, or any other form of rules that govern what information is shared among agencies, specifically to the one person who was in charge of security for the Capitol Building on 1/6/2021?

Notably, one of the key 'agencies'...or entities... that had an outsized role in what happened on J6,and for the lack of preparation.....was ...Don Trump and his circle of enablers.

I mean by that, there was fulsome testimony at the J6 Committee hearings, and more since, that Trump & enablers planned to order a march on the Capitol from their podium at the Ellipse. They had planned it for a couple of weeks.

Yet.....

Yet.....they instructed all to keep it a secret. They intentionally forbade applying for the legally required 'march' permits.

Why keep it a secret?

If the required permits had been applied for the DC police, the Parks police, the Capitol police...... those agencies would have been alerted and would have staffed up, erected crowd control barriers--more substantial ones... they could have staged their own SWAT or reactionary teams....if only the Trump circle would have informed them that they intended to send thousands of angry and incited people on an aggressive march right at our elected Representatives.

Why did Trump & enablers want to keep it secret?

Why didn't they want the Capitol to have beefed-up security?
Did they want it to be easily overwhelmed by the agitated crowd so that the Electoral count could be halted?

Personally, I think the real culprits here are Trump and his circle of now indicted enablers.

There would have been no need...no current controversies....about the National Guard, or "intel agencies" if the existing police agencies....all three of them.....had been informed as required by law that a march was gonna come straight at the Capitol. They could have been prepared by that foreknowledge.

Why keep it a secret?

--------------------------------------------

There is some recently released video, Americans luv video, that back up the true story.

Link it for us, BJ.

----------------------------------------

Not one single agency shared their serious intel with Steven Sund, quite the coincidence, isn't it?

See the first response in this post. About the Trump circle intentionally keeping a long planned march a secret from all three of the involved police agencies.

Why keep such an endeavor secret?

-------------------------------------------------

The were a group of amateur TV executive producers who literally hired a professional producer named Jon Goldston to make an evening drama - starring themselves of course.

Well, duh!!

The Representatives on that committee were NOT "amateur TV executive".
They were duly elected congressional representatives that had come from a variety of occupations.....none of them TV producers, videographers, or film editors. Duh!!

And they had on their plate hundreds of thousands of hours of video depictions of what happened....from security cams, from body cams, from news organization's tapes, and most damning from the violent perpetrators own selfies.

Hundreds of thousands of hours!

Of course, they needed professional help in scanning it, organizing it, collating it, editing it, so that a coherent story could be relayed.

Remember, they had watching over their shoulders the millions and millions of Americans who had watched the violence themselves ---live----on the telly that day. So they knew they had hew exactly what happened as best as it was captured on video. They knew they had these millions of witnesses who saw it too....and would judge what was presented.

 

[elektra]

At this point, given the direction the thread has taken, I'd like to reiterate the observation I made in post #1.

Pelosi does not control National Guard requests for the Capitol.​

Mr. McCarthy and others said that Ms. Pelosi had refused pleas by the Capitol Police to provide backup, like the National Guard, ahead of Jan. 6.

But the speaker of the House does not control the National Guard. And while Congress could have requested support in advance, that decision lies with the Capitol Police Board, not the speaker.

But Nancy Pelosi does control security of the Capitol Building and nothing posted thus far dispels that fact.

Yes, you claim it is the Capitol Police, sure who reports to Nancy Pelosi

You counter, "no, the Capitol Police Chief reports to the Capitol Police Board", which is like reporting to himself seeings how the Capitol Police Chief is one of the four members.

Then, it is, "the Capitol Police Board" does not report to Nancy Pelosi, they report to other committees.

You say this all, without any sort of reference? Laws? The Laws state a Standard Operating Procedure will be made and in put in practice. That Standard Operating Procedure in not made public.

What does the Standard Operating Procedure state must be done during an emergency.

If I am to believe the DemoRATS position, Nancy Pelosi will maybe notified once the proper committees are notified by the Capitol Police Board.

The real thing this thread proved, is Nancy Pelosi lost control of the Capitol Building.

As far as the National Guard goes, had Nancy Pelosi taken appropriate action, none of this never would of taken place. We all know it is not Nancy Pelosi that activates the National Guard. But what we know that you do not, is the Legislative Branch owns the Capitol Building and Donald Trump can not unilaterally send in the National Guard.

We also know that Trump would not be the one to activate the National Guard for that power was delegated to the Department of Defense, who Delegated the power to activate the National Guard to the General of the Army.

Separation of powers, Trump the executive branch can not send troops into the legislative branch, who by law provides their own security.

Further, we have the testimony of the Capitol Police Chief stating 4 days prior to Jan. 6th that the National Guard troops were offered, and refused by the sergeant at arms.

The sergeant at arms reports to Nancy Pelosi, nobody has proven different, it is a fact. Did the sergeant at arms decide on his own or did he ask Pelosi, the most powerful member of Congress? The person the sergeant at arms does in fact report to.

The national guard was refused by the legislative branch of government multiple times throughout the day of jan 6th.

We also know the Metropolitan Police requested and received 300 National Guard troops. So there is the fact that the National Guard was offered and refused by the Legislative Branch of government. Yet accepted by the police that protect Washington DC, the Metropolitan Police.

 

[elektra]

Where did you get that notion? So since 'they' didn't think they were serious threats, 'they' just chose not to share any information with the Chief of Capitol Police? And you, being the idiot you are, believe that there aren't any protocols, policies, regulations, or any other form of rules that govern what information is shared among agencies, specifically to the one person who was in charge of security for the Capitol Building on 1/6/2021? You're a special kind of stupid. I suggest you buy Steven Sund's book and read it.

I might have to buy that book

to add to what you said, there is the Standard Operating Procedure, that is followed, and is not posted online, it is a classified document for obvious reasons.

Have you read the timeline? It is pretty clear that everyone knew violence was on the way. Hence why Trump offered the National Guard.

I would quote this document but it does not allow me to

USCPJan.6Timeline.pdf

 

[elektra]

This doesn't have anything to do with Trump's false claim that Pelosi "refused" his call for more National Guard troops.
That was a lie.
Trump was the ONLY one in charge of The NG on that day.

No, not all, the authority to activate the National Guard was given to the DOD, and then they gave it to the General of the Army.

Nancy Pelosi, is the person ultimately responsible for the security of the Capitol Building. She failed.

 

[elektra]

Actually we do have access to the procedures because the investigations after the riot talked about how dysfunctional they are and recommended fixes for them.

To be fair, it’s not like the Capitol Police were used to being overrun by supporters or a failed presidential candidate. The fact that there was a lot of confusion about policies and procedures stems from the unprecedented nature of the crisis.

Post the complete, Standard Operating Procedure for the Capitol Police. You will not be able to. It is classified. You think the Government will let terrorist know how they will respond to a terrorist attack? Dont argue and be foolish.

Police Chief Sund requested the National Guard, days before. Everyone knew of the thread of violence and that this would be a big crowd.

Hell, the Metropolitan police were in the same meetings and the Capitol Police Chief, and because of the known threat discussed at the meetings, the Metropolitan police requested National Guard and received them.

 

[elektra]

The House Sergeant at Arms made the request to Pelosi who approved it immediately.

The Senate Sergent at Arms did likewise.

Both were required.

The Capitol Architect probably needed to approve too but no one seems to have cared.

After refusing how many times? Refusing for 4 days in a row.

 

[Marener]

Post the complete, Standard Operating Procedure for the Capitol Police. You will not be able to. It is classified. You think the Government will let terrorist know how they will respond to a terrorist attack? Dont argue and be foolish.

Police Chief Sund requested the National Guard, days before. Everyone knew of the thread of violence and that this would be a big crowd.

Hell, the Metropolitan police were in the same meetings and the Capitol Police Chief, and because of the known threat discussed at the meetings, the Metropolitan police requested National Guard and received them.

It’s actually codified in law.

2 U.S. Code Chapter 29 - CAPITOL POLICE

www.law.cornell.edu

Discussion of the policies starts on page 63 of the document (or page 66 of the PDF).

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

Sund did not request the national guard days before, he requested the national guard be on call and ready to respond quickly. The national guard didnt do so.

 

[Marener]

After refusing how many times? Refusing for 4 days in a row.

You were talking about the request on January 6th after the riot started. She did not refuse.

 

[elektra]

It’s actually codified in law.

2 U.S. Code Chapter 29 - CAPITOL POLICE

www.law.cornell.edu

Discussion of the policies starts on page 63 of the document (or page 66 of the PDF).

The Standard Operating Procedure is not in the link you shared. If so, copy and paste, screenshot, snipe.

 

[OldFlame]

...

Sund did not request the national guard days before, he requested the national guard be on call and ready to respond quickly. The national guard didnt do so.

That is a flat out lie.