Right Wingers eating crow on price of gasoline. $1.39 in Indiana.

[Moonglow]

Enjoy it while you can. I noticed prices for other goods that were increased a few years back because of higher transportation cost, so retailer claimed, have not fallen at all!

If you are referring to food prices, you only have to look to the federally mandated corn Ethanol subsidy.
Once farmers saw this little federal perk, they switched corn production from feed for cattle and food and food additives to corn for ethanol.
This one subsidy has been no better than a food tax on Americans.
The price of beef, poultry( feed) dairy( feed and corn additives to some products)and anything with any type of corn derivative has skyrocketed in price.

What happened is when ethanol became a commodity and started to be used, farmers that grew other grains (soybeans, barley, oats) dropped what they were growing to grow corn. Then those grains increased in cost because of low supply. That's why all food products increased in price.

But this is what happens when you decide to burn up your food supply. If there is any irony in this at all, it's that ethanol creates more pollution to produce than gasoline.

The previous GOP president and GOP Congress wrote the alternative energy policy of 2005 which mandated the investment into these developments..Oblama is just following the energy policy

Cut the bullshit. Obama isn't going along with anything.
The fact is there is nothing he can do to stop domestic oil production on privately owned lands.
Obama has been obsessed with the idea of 'green energy' for who knows how long.
Obama wasted half a trillion on Solyndra. And he gave GE over one trillion dollars in tax breaks because that company's management decided to go along with Obama on his green energy bullshit

There are dozens of other businesses and countries pouring monies into developing alternative energy including fusion reactors........You can't go forward by living in the past...

It's not that we can't produce alternatives--we can. The question is at what cost?

As of today, there is nothing that can replace the supply, reliability and strength of petroleum. We pay far less for gasoline than other countries let's say in Europe.

One of our customers was a big lib. So he had a windmill installed at his business. I kinda like windmills. They are cool looking.

One day I went there and the entire top of the windmill was gone. The owner walked by and I asked what happened to the windmill? He just waved both hands towards me as if pushing away and said "Ah!" LOL!

One of the workers said that he was only two years from breaking even on his windmill investment, then the stupid thing broke, and it cost almost as much to repair as buying a new one, so he opted to just use electricity from the electric company.

They also threw a fit when petroleum ruined the whaling industry.......autos replaced horses and was fought by old timers.........They said electricity was a fluke and would never work...

They also threw a fit when petroleum ruined the whaling industry

Petroleum was cheaper than whale oil. When you get a cheaper renewable, let us know.

I will let you know...They are always trying to create a better mouse trap...

 

[dblack]

Enjoy it while you can. I noticed prices for other goods that were increased a few years back because of higher transportation cost, so retailer claimed, have not fallen at all!

If you are referring to food prices, you only have to look to the federally mandated corn Ethanol subsidy.
Once farmers saw this little federal perk, they switched corn production from feed for cattle and food and food additives to corn for ethanol.
This one subsidy has been no better than a food tax on Americans.
The price of beef, poultry( feed) dairy( feed and corn additives to some products)and anything with any type of corn derivative has skyrocketed in price.

What happened is when ethanol became a commodity and started to be used, farmers that grew other grains (soybeans, barley, oats) dropped what they were growing to grow corn. Then those grains increased in cost because of low supply. That's why all food products increased in price.

But this is what happens when you decide to burn up your food supply. If there is any irony in this at all, it's that ethanol creates more pollution to produce than gasoline.

The previous GOP president and GOP Congress wrote the alternative energy policy of 2005 which mandated the investment into these developments..Oblama is just following the energy policy

Cut the bullshit. Obama isn't going along with anything.
The fact is there is nothing he can do to stop domestic oil production on privately owned lands.
Obama has been obsessed with the idea of 'green energy' for who knows how long.
Obama wasted half a trillion on Solyndra. And he gave GE over one trillion dollars in tax breaks because that company's management decided to go along with Obama on his green energy bullshit

There are dozens of other businesses and countries pouring monies into developing alternative energy including fusion reactors........You can't go forward by living in the past...

It's not that we can't produce alternatives--we can. The question is at what cost?

As of today, there is nothing that can replace the supply, reliability and strength of petroleum. We pay far less for gasoline than other countries let's say in Europe.

One of our customers was a big lib. So he had a windmill installed at his business. I kinda like windmills. They are cool looking.

One day I went there and the entire top of the windmill was gone. The owner walked by and I asked what happened to the windmill? He just waved both hands towards me as if pushing away and said "Ah!" LOL!

One of the workers said that he was only two years from breaking even on his windmill investment, then the stupid thing broke, and it cost almost as much to repair as buying a new one, so he opted to just use electricity from the electric company.

They also threw a fit when petroleum ruined the whaling industry.......autos replaced horses and was fought by old timers.........They said electricity was a fluke and would never work...

Almost no one believes that oil is permanent and alternatives will not replace it. That is not the point. The problem is that the government wants to FORCE alternatives to come in and replace oil long before they are ready to do so and place restrictions on oil (that conveniently come in the guise of taxing it more) so that customers are moved over before they should. This is bad. Allowing the tech to mature to the point that it replaces oil naturally is how it should be done.

Hmm... so, should government force taxpayers to supplement oil? Or should it just stay out of it altogether?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Enjoy it while you can. I noticed prices for other goods that were increased a few years back because of higher transportation cost, so retailer claimed, have not fallen at all!

If you are referring to food prices, you only have to look to the federally mandated corn Ethanol subsidy.
Once farmers saw this little federal perk, they switched corn production from feed for cattle and food and food additives to corn for ethanol.
This one subsidy has been no better than a food tax on Americans.
The price of beef, poultry( feed) dairy( feed and corn additives to some products)and anything with any type of corn derivative has skyrocketed in price.

What happened is when ethanol became a commodity and started to be used, farmers that grew other grains (soybeans, barley, oats) dropped what they were growing to grow corn. Then those grains increased in cost because of low supply. That's why all food products increased in price.

But this is what happens when you decide to burn up your food supply. If there is any irony in this at all, it's that ethanol creates more pollution to produce than gasoline.

Cut the bullshit. Obama isn't going along with anything.
The fact is there is nothing he can do to stop domestic oil production on privately owned lands.
Obama has been obsessed with the idea of 'green energy' for who knows how long.
Obama wasted half a trillion on Solyndra. And he gave GE over one trillion dollars in tax breaks because that company's management decided to go along with Obama on his green energy bullshit

There are dozens of other businesses and countries pouring monies into developing alternative energy including fusion reactors........You can't go forward by living in the past...

It's not that we can't produce alternatives--we can. The question is at what cost?

As of today, there is nothing that can replace the supply, reliability and strength of petroleum. We pay far less for gasoline than other countries let's say in Europe.

One of our customers was a big lib. So he had a windmill installed at his business. I kinda like windmills. They are cool looking.

One day I went there and the entire top of the windmill was gone. The owner walked by and I asked what happened to the windmill? He just waved both hands towards me as if pushing away and said "Ah!" LOL!

One of the workers said that he was only two years from breaking even on his windmill investment, then the stupid thing broke, and it cost almost as much to repair as buying a new one, so he opted to just use electricity from the electric company.

They also threw a fit when petroleum ruined the whaling industry.......autos replaced horses and was fought by old timers.........They said electricity was a fluke and would never work...

They also threw a fit when petroleum ruined the whaling industry

Petroleum was cheaper than whale oil. When you get a cheaper renewable, let us know.

I will let you know...They are always trying to create a better mouse trap...

They are always trying to create a better mouse trap.

And when they do, the government won't have to subsidize it. Or hike taxes on the old mouse traps.

 

[Moonglow]

Enjoy it while you can. I noticed prices for other goods that were increased a few years back because of higher transportation cost, so retailer claimed, have not fallen at all!

If you are referring to food prices, you only have to look to the federally mandated corn Ethanol subsidy.
Once farmers saw this little federal perk, they switched corn production from feed for cattle and food and food additives to corn for ethanol.
This one subsidy has been no better than a food tax on Americans.
The price of beef, poultry( feed) dairy( feed and corn additives to some products)and anything with any type of corn derivative has skyrocketed in price.

What happened is when ethanol became a commodity and started to be used, farmers that grew other grains (soybeans, barley, oats) dropped what they were growing to grow corn. Then those grains increased in cost because of low supply. That's why all food products increased in price.

But this is what happens when you decide to burn up your food supply. If there is any irony in this at all, it's that ethanol creates more pollution to produce than gasoline.

The previous GOP president and GOP Congress wrote the alternative energy policy of 2005 which mandated the investment into these developments..Oblama is just following the energy policy

Cut the bullshit. Obama isn't going along with anything.
The fact is there is nothing he can do to stop domestic oil production on privately owned lands.
Obama has been obsessed with the idea of 'green energy' for who knows how long.
Obama wasted half a trillion on Solyndra. And he gave GE over one trillion dollars in tax breaks because that company's management decided to go along with Obama on his green energy bullshit

There are dozens of other businesses and countries pouring monies into developing alternative energy including fusion reactors........You can't go forward by living in the past...

It's not that we can't produce alternatives--we can. The question is at what cost?

As of today, there is nothing that can replace the supply, reliability and strength of petroleum. We pay far less for gasoline than other countries let's say in Europe.

One of our customers was a big lib. So he had a windmill installed at his business. I kinda like windmills. They are cool looking.

One day I went there and the entire top of the windmill was gone. The owner walked by and I asked what happened to the windmill? He just waved both hands towards me as if pushing away and said "Ah!" LOL!

One of the workers said that he was only two years from breaking even on his windmill investment, then the stupid thing broke, and it cost almost as much to repair as buying a new one, so he opted to just use electricity from the electric company.

They also threw a fit when petroleum ruined the whaling industry.......autos replaced horses and was fought by old timers.........They said electricity was a fluke and would never work...

Almost no one believes that oil is permanent and alternatives will not replace it. That is not the point. The problem is that the government wants to FORCE alternatives to come in and replace oil long before they are ready to do so and place restrictions on oil (that conveniently come in the guise of taxing it more) so that customers are moved over before they should. This is bad. Allowing the tech to mature to the point that it replaces oil naturally is how it should be done.

The stae govt. tried to regulate oil production in the 19th century also...

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Enjoy it while you can. I noticed prices for other goods that were increased a few years back because of higher transportation cost, so retailer claimed, have not fallen at all!

If you are referring to food prices, you only have to look to the federally mandated corn Ethanol subsidy.
Once farmers saw this little federal perk, they switched corn production from feed for cattle and food and food additives to corn for ethanol.
This one subsidy has been no better than a food tax on Americans.
The price of beef, poultry( feed) dairy( feed and corn additives to some products)and anything with any type of corn derivative has skyrocketed in price.

What happened is when ethanol became a commodity and started to be used, farmers that grew other grains (soybeans, barley, oats) dropped what they were growing to grow corn. Then those grains increased in cost because of low supply. That's why all food products increased in price.

But this is what happens when you decide to burn up your food supply. If there is any irony in this at all, it's that ethanol creates more pollution to produce than gasoline.

Cut the bullshit. Obama isn't going along with anything.
The fact is there is nothing he can do to stop domestic oil production on privately owned lands.
Obama has been obsessed with the idea of 'green energy' for who knows how long.
Obama wasted half a trillion on Solyndra. And he gave GE over one trillion dollars in tax breaks because that company's management decided to go along with Obama on his green energy bullshit

There are dozens of other businesses and countries pouring monies into developing alternative energy including fusion reactors........You can't go forward by living in the past...

It's not that we can't produce alternatives--we can. The question is at what cost?

As of today, there is nothing that can replace the supply, reliability and strength of petroleum. We pay far less for gasoline than other countries let's say in Europe.

One of our customers was a big lib. So he had a windmill installed at his business. I kinda like windmills. They are cool looking.

One day I went there and the entire top of the windmill was gone. The owner walked by and I asked what happened to the windmill? He just waved both hands towards me as if pushing away and said "Ah!" LOL!

One of the workers said that he was only two years from breaking even on his windmill investment, then the stupid thing broke, and it cost almost as much to repair as buying a new one, so he opted to just use electricity from the electric company.

They also threw a fit when petroleum ruined the whaling industry.......autos replaced horses and was fought by old timers.........They said electricity was a fluke and would never work...

Almost no one believes that oil is permanent and alternatives will not replace it. That is not the point. The problem is that the government wants to FORCE alternatives to come in and replace oil long before they are ready to do so and place restrictions on oil (that conveniently come in the guise of taxing it more) so that customers are moved over before they should. This is bad. Allowing the tech to mature to the point that it replaces oil naturally is how it should be done.

Hmm... so, should government force taxpayers to supplement oil? Or should it just stay out of it altogether?

Hmm... so, should government force taxpayers to supplement oil?

Oil is heavily taxed.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Cut the bullshit. Obama isn't going along with anything.
The fact is there is nothing he can do to stop domestic oil production on privately owned lands.
Obama has been obsessed with the idea of 'green energy' for who knows how long.
Obama wasted half a trillion on Solyndra. And he gave GE over one trillion dollars in tax breaks because that company's management decided to go along with Obama on his green energy bullshit

There are dozens of other businesses and countries pouring monies into developing alternative energy including fusion reactors........You can't go forward by living in the past...

Yeah. No shit.
Obama's problem is that in his mind we should stop using oil NOW.
We should be seeing many more vehicles running on hydrogen and natural gas. Unfortunately, there are political forces which are preventing this and other price worthy and energy efficient fuels from coming to market.
And quite frankly, the petroleum industry is bigger than any US POTUS and bigger than anyone can imagine.
In fact, the world's economic well being rests squarely on the shoulders of the availability and production of petroleum.

Which is not the case, during Oblama's tenure oil production in the US topped Saudi Arabia, making the US the top producer in the world...Why was this not accomplished during Boosh? An oilman....

Any oil man will tell you that it takes anywhere from 3-5 years before you can actually produce oil once you start the process. Bush did allow that process to start.

The catalyst for fracking came from higher fuel prices...

No, it came from technology.

Fracking has been around for several decades, it's just trying to make it work efficiently was the problem. Then we have the EPA of course that had to poke their nose into it.

Now they can frack and get more bang for their buck. That keeps prices down. Instead of setting up several stations, they use one station and run multiple horizontal pipes instead of just one or two.

 

[Moonglow]

If you are referring to food prices, you only have to look to the federally mandated corn Ethanol subsidy.
Once farmers saw this little federal perk, they switched corn production from feed for cattle and food and food additives to corn for ethanol.
This one subsidy has been no better than a food tax on Americans.
The price of beef, poultry( feed) dairy( feed and corn additives to some products)and anything with any type of corn derivative has skyrocketed in price.

What happened is when ethanol became a commodity and started to be used, farmers that grew other grains (soybeans, barley, oats) dropped what they were growing to grow corn. Then those grains increased in cost because of low supply. That's why all food products increased in price.

But this is what happens when you decide to burn up your food supply. If there is any irony in this at all, it's that ethanol creates more pollution to produce than gasoline.

There are dozens of other businesses and countries pouring monies into developing alternative energy including fusion reactors........You can't go forward by living in the past...

It's not that we can't produce alternatives--we can. The question is at what cost?

As of today, there is nothing that can replace the supply, reliability and strength of petroleum. We pay far less for gasoline than other countries let's say in Europe.

One of our customers was a big lib. So he had a windmill installed at his business. I kinda like windmills. They are cool looking.

One day I went there and the entire top of the windmill was gone. The owner walked by and I asked what happened to the windmill? He just waved both hands towards me as if pushing away and said "Ah!" LOL!

One of the workers said that he was only two years from breaking even on his windmill investment, then the stupid thing broke, and it cost almost as much to repair as buying a new one, so he opted to just use electricity from the electric company.

They also threw a fit when petroleum ruined the whaling industry.......autos replaced horses and was fought by old timers.........They said electricity was a fluke and would never work...

They also threw a fit when petroleum ruined the whaling industry

Petroleum was cheaper than whale oil. When you get a cheaper renewable, let us know.

I will let you know...They are always trying to create a better mouse trap...

They are always trying to create a better mouse trap.

And when they do, the government won't have to subsidize it. Or hike taxes on the old mouse traps.

The military, mostly the Navy, is wanting an alternative fuel for their future war strategy of a lack of fuel in a future war in which the ME and other nations have oil supplies depleted or cut off...

 

[FA_Q2]

Enjoy it while you can. I noticed prices for other goods that were increased a few years back because of higher transportation cost, so retailer claimed, have not fallen at all!

If you are referring to food prices, you only have to look to the federally mandated corn Ethanol subsidy.
Once farmers saw this little federal perk, they switched corn production from feed for cattle and food and food additives to corn for ethanol.
This one subsidy has been no better than a food tax on Americans.
The price of beef, poultry( feed) dairy( feed and corn additives to some products)and anything with any type of corn derivative has skyrocketed in price.

What happened is when ethanol became a commodity and started to be used, farmers that grew other grains (soybeans, barley, oats) dropped what they were growing to grow corn. Then those grains increased in cost because of low supply. That's why all food products increased in price.

But this is what happens when you decide to burn up your food supply. If there is any irony in this at all, it's that ethanol creates more pollution to produce than gasoline.

Cut the bullshit. Obama isn't going along with anything.
The fact is there is nothing he can do to stop domestic oil production on privately owned lands.
Obama has been obsessed with the idea of 'green energy' for who knows how long.
Obama wasted half a trillion on Solyndra. And he gave GE over one trillion dollars in tax breaks because that company's management decided to go along with Obama on his green energy bullshit

There are dozens of other businesses and countries pouring monies into developing alternative energy including fusion reactors........You can't go forward by living in the past...

It's not that we can't produce alternatives--we can. The question is at what cost?

As of today, there is nothing that can replace the supply, reliability and strength of petroleum. We pay far less for gasoline than other countries let's say in Europe.

One of our customers was a big lib. So he had a windmill installed at his business. I kinda like windmills. They are cool looking.

One day I went there and the entire top of the windmill was gone. The owner walked by and I asked what happened to the windmill? He just waved both hands towards me as if pushing away and said "Ah!" LOL!

One of the workers said that he was only two years from breaking even on his windmill investment, then the stupid thing broke, and it cost almost as much to repair as buying a new one, so he opted to just use electricity from the electric company.

They also threw a fit when petroleum ruined the whaling industry.......autos replaced horses and was fought by old timers.........They said electricity was a fluke and would never work...

Almost no one believes that oil is permanent and alternatives will not replace it. That is not the point. The problem is that the government wants to FORCE alternatives to come in and replace oil long before they are ready to do so and place restrictions on oil (that conveniently come in the guise of taxing it more) so that customers are moved over before they should. This is bad. Allowing the tech to mature to the point that it replaces oil naturally is how it should be done.

Hmm... so, should government force taxpayers to supplement oil? Or should it just stay out of it altogether?

That depends on what you call government supplementing oil. In general, most oil 'subsidies' are general tax provisions that should and are extended to all products (like writing off expenses). If you are talking about straight out subsidies then no, nothing should revive governmental support.

If you want to discuss something specific then bring it up as your comment really has nothing to do with mine at all.

 

[Moonglow]

The previous GOP president and GOP Congress wrote the alternative energy policy of 2005 which mandated the investment into these developments..Oblama is just following the energy policy

Cut the bullshit. Obama isn't going along with anything.
The fact is there is nothing he can do to stop domestic oil production on privately owned lands.
Obama has been obsessed with the idea of 'green energy' for who knows how long.
Obama wasted half a trillion on Solyndra. And he gave GE over one trillion dollars in tax breaks because that company's management decided to go along with Obama on his green energy bullshit

There are dozens of other businesses and countries pouring monies into developing alternative energy including fusion reactors........You can't go forward by living in the past...

Yeah. No shit.
Obama's problem is that in his mind we should stop using oil NOW.
We should be seeing many more vehicles running on hydrogen and natural gas. Unfortunately, there are political forces which are preventing this and other price worthy and energy efficient fuels from coming to market.
And quite frankly, the petroleum industry is bigger than any US POTUS and bigger than anyone can imagine.
In fact, the world's economic well being rests squarely on the shoulders of the availability and production of petroleum.

Which is not the case, during Oblama's tenure oil production in the US topped Saudi Arabia, making the US the top producer in the world...Why was this not accomplished during Boosh? An oilman....

That is not the right question and you know it. The real question is what has Obama done that you can credit him with any of that production? Without an answer to that, Obama is utterly irrelevant in that increased production.

In the same logic, Oblama is not the blame for higher prices either...

 

[Muhammed]

Muhammed 12943804

I know RWs who were predicting 23 cent/gallon gasoline.

Here us the final paragraph to which you were responding:

"Of course those RW'rs predicting $6 gas back in 2011 aren't complaining about low prices. They are complaining about being reminded how dishonest and dirty they are."

So when you do learn how to read you will see that I was not referring to RW'ers that were predicting that gas price would go down a penny. I definitely was not referring to your phantom RW'ers that were predicting gas to go down to $0.23 a gallon.

I was referring to "those" RW'rs predicting that gas would go up and were blaming it all on Obama.

You see how English works when "those" is used in a sentence it is pointing to a specific group of RW'ers in this case. Your phantom RW'ers are not in that specific group.

That is another reason why your reply is so funny.

Are their predictions a matter of public record back in 2011?

Do you have a record of public predictions "about how Obama's rejection of Keystone pipeline and EPA abuses and his contempt for big oil was going to lead to $5 to $6 gasoline and destroy jobs and the economy"?

"Public predictions" by whom? And who the hell gives a fuck what they think?

I know I don't.

Do you?

 

[bripat9643]

Enjoy it while you can. I noticed prices for other goods that were increased a few years back because of higher transportation cost, so retailer claimed, have not fallen at all!

If you are referring to food prices, you only have to look to the federally mandated corn Ethanol subsidy.
Once farmers saw this little federal perk, they switched corn production from feed for cattle and food and food additives to corn for ethanol.
This one subsidy has been no better than a food tax on Americans.
The price of beef, poultry( feed) dairy( feed and corn additives to some products)and anything with any type of corn derivative has skyrocketed in price.

What happened is when ethanol became a commodity and started to be used, farmers that grew other grains (soybeans, barley, oats) dropped what they were growing to grow corn. Then those grains increased in cost because of low supply. That's why all food products increased in price.

But this is what happens when you decide to burn up your food supply. If there is any irony in this at all, it's that ethanol creates more pollution to produce than gasoline.

In spite of Obama's total commitment to "green" (LOL) energy..stupid fuck

The previous GOP president and GOP Congress wrote the alternative energy policy of 2005 which mandated the investment into these developments..Oblama is just following the energy policy

Cut the bullshit. Obama isn't going along with anything.
The fact is there is nothing he can do to stop domestic oil production on privately owned lands.
Obama has been obsessed with the idea of 'green energy' for who knows how long.
Obama wasted half a trillion on Solyndra. And he gave GE over one trillion dollars in tax breaks because that company's management decided to go along with Obama on his green energy bullshit

There are dozens of other businesses and countries pouring monies into developing alternative energy including fusion reactors........You can't go forward by living in the past...

It's not that we can't produce alternatives--we can. The question is at what cost?

As of today, there is nothing that can replace the supply, reliability and strength of petroleum. We pay far less for gasoline than other countries let's say in Europe.

One of our customers was a big lib. So he had a windmill installed at his business. I kinda like windmills. They are cool looking.

One day I went there and the entire top of the windmill was gone. The owner walked by and I asked what happened to the windmill? He just waved both hands towards me as if pushing away and said "Ah!" LOL!

One of the workers said that he was only two years from breaking even on his windmill investment, then the stupid thing broke, and it cost almost as much to repair as buying a new one, so he opted to just use electricity from the electric company.

They also threw a fit when petroleum ruined the whaling industry.......autos replaced horses and was fought by old timers.........They said electricity was a fluke and would never work...

The taxpayers weren't forced to subsidize petroleum, electricity or the automobile.

 

[Muhammed]

Muhammed 12943621

Since when have right-wingers complained about about the price of gasoline going down, dumbass?

If you did not read what you are replying to why did you bother to comment. My point is not that rightwingers are complaining - it is that rightwingers were so vicious and boldly lying that Obama's energy policy was going to send gasoline prices through the roof and destroy the U.S. Economy.

Now that they have been proven wrong they have all shut up about gas prices wanting us to forget how ugly, misguided and unconcerned with facts and economic science when a buzzword like Keystone appears in their fantasy world.

Of course those RW'rs predicting $6 gas back in 2011 aren't complaining about low prices. They are complaining about being reminded how dishonest and dirty they are.

And I still contend that you're an idiot.

 

[Moonglow]

Enjoy it while you can. I noticed prices for other goods that were increased a few years back because of higher transportation cost, so retailer claimed, have not fallen at all!

If you are referring to food prices, you only have to look to the federally mandated corn Ethanol subsidy.
Once farmers saw this little federal perk, they switched corn production from feed for cattle and food and food additives to corn for ethanol.
This one subsidy has been no better than a food tax on Americans.
The price of beef, poultry( feed) dairy( feed and corn additives to some products)and anything with any type of corn derivative has skyrocketed in price.

What happened is when ethanol became a commodity and started to be used, farmers that grew other grains (soybeans, barley, oats) dropped what they were growing to grow corn. Then those grains increased in cost because of low supply. That's why all food products increased in price.

But this is what happens when you decide to burn up your food supply. If there is any irony in this at all, it's that ethanol creates more pollution to produce than gasoline.

The previous GOP president and GOP Congress wrote the alternative energy policy of 2005 which mandated the investment into these developments..Oblama is just following the energy policy

Cut the bullshit. Obama isn't going along with anything.
The fact is there is nothing he can do to stop domestic oil production on privately owned lands.
Obama has been obsessed with the idea of 'green energy' for who knows how long.
Obama wasted half a trillion on Solyndra. And he gave GE over one trillion dollars in tax breaks because that company's management decided to go along with Obama on his green energy bullshit

There are dozens of other businesses and countries pouring monies into developing alternative energy including fusion reactors........You can't go forward by living in the past...

It's not that we can't produce alternatives--we can. The question is at what cost?

As of today, there is nothing that can replace the supply, reliability and strength of petroleum. We pay far less for gasoline than other countries let's say in Europe.

One of our customers was a big lib. So he had a windmill installed at his business. I kinda like windmills. They are cool looking.

One day I went there and the entire top of the windmill was gone. The owner walked by and I asked what happened to the windmill? He just waved both hands towards me as if pushing away and said "Ah!" LOL!

One of the workers said that he was only two years from breaking even on his windmill investment, then the stupid thing broke, and it cost almost as much to repair as buying a new one, so he opted to just use electricity from the electric company.

They also threw a fit when petroleum ruined the whaling industry.......autos replaced horses and was fought by old timers.........They said electricity was a fluke and would never work...

The taxpayers weren't forced to subsidize petroleum, electricity or the automobile.

petroleum is close to the ground, making extraction easy....the US subsidized electrifying rural USA....

 

[Dot Com]

Last paragraph in the article:

A spokesman for the Department of the Interior, asked to respond to the industry's contention that DOI's report is both misleading and absurd, says, "The report speaks for itself. The notion that we have somehow locked up federal lands clearly doesn't square with the facts. Our goal is to continue expanding safe and responsible development, and we will continue to take steps to deliver on that priority."

I'll take that over American Petroleum Institute statements any day of the week.

You will? Then explain why oil companies would do that if they really want the oil. Do you think they are not using the land to make DumBama look bad? That's an awful long stretch, don't you think?

Who's is "DumBama" oh ODS Sufferer?

Sent from my BN NookHD+ using Tapatalk

 

[Dot Com]

Global demand is very low.... it is that simple.

And production increased in the US, simple as that....

In spite of Obama's total commitment to "green" (LOL) energy..stupid fuck

The previous GOP president and GOP Congress wrote the alternative energy policy of 2005 which mandated the investment into these developments..Oblama is just following the energy policy

Cut the bullshit. Obama isn't going along with anything.
The fact is there is nothing he can do to stop domestic oil production on privately owned lands.
Obama has been obsessed with the idea of 'green energy' for who knows how long.
Obama wasted half a trillion on Solyndra. And he gave GE over one trillion dollars in tax breaks because that company's management decided to go along with Obama on his green energy bullshit

There are dozens of other businesses and countries pouring monies into developing alternative energy including fusion reactors........You can't go forward by living in the past...

Watch them. They'll do it purely for spite given they couldn't win the Presidency the last two times. Looking at their Primaries thus far I'd say that the trend might continue

Sent from my BN NookHD+ using Tapatalk

 

[FA_Q2]

Cut the bullshit. Obama isn't going along with anything.
The fact is there is nothing he can do to stop domestic oil production on privately owned lands.
Obama has been obsessed with the idea of 'green energy' for who knows how long.
Obama wasted half a trillion on Solyndra. And he gave GE over one trillion dollars in tax breaks because that company's management decided to go along with Obama on his green energy bullshit

There are dozens of other businesses and countries pouring monies into developing alternative energy including fusion reactors........You can't go forward by living in the past...

Yeah. No shit.
Obama's problem is that in his mind we should stop using oil NOW.
We should be seeing many more vehicles running on hydrogen and natural gas. Unfortunately, there are political forces which are preventing this and other price worthy and energy efficient fuels from coming to market.
And quite frankly, the petroleum industry is bigger than any US POTUS and bigger than anyone can imagine.
In fact, the world's economic well being rests squarely on the shoulders of the availability and production of petroleum.

Which is not the case, during Oblama's tenure oil production in the US topped Saudi Arabia, making the US the top producer in the world...Why was this not accomplished during Boosh? An oilman....

That is not the right question and you know it. The real question is what has Obama done that you can credit him with any of that production? Without an answer to that, Obama is utterly irrelevant in that increased production.

In the same logic, Oblama is not the blame for higher prices either...

Well, no because I didn't say that he was not responsible for the lower prices. I said that you would need to identify policies that helped bring that price down in order to claim he was responsible for the lower prices.

I really do not think he was responsible for higher prices - his effects would have been rather minimal. There are other problems associated with his hostility for energy though.

I notice that you avoided outlining any policies though.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Cut the bullshit. Obama isn't going along with anything.
The fact is there is nothing he can do to stop domestic oil production on privately owned lands.
Obama has been obsessed with the idea of 'green energy' for who knows how long.
Obama wasted half a trillion on Solyndra. And he gave GE over one trillion dollars in tax breaks because that company's management decided to go along with Obama on his green energy bullshit

There are dozens of other businesses and countries pouring monies into developing alternative energy including fusion reactors........You can't go forward by living in the past...

Yeah. No shit.
Obama's problem is that in his mind we should stop using oil NOW.
We should be seeing many more vehicles running on hydrogen and natural gas. Unfortunately, there are political forces which are preventing this and other price worthy and energy efficient fuels from coming to market.
And quite frankly, the petroleum industry is bigger than any US POTUS and bigger than anyone can imagine.
In fact, the world's economic well being rests squarely on the shoulders of the availability and production of petroleum.

Which is not the case, during Oblama's tenure oil production in the US topped Saudi Arabia, making the US the top producer in the world...Why was this not accomplished during Boosh? An oilman....

That is not the right question and you know it. The real question is what has Obama done that you can credit him with any of that production? Without an answer to that, Obama is utterly irrelevant in that increased production.

In the same logic, Oblama is not the blame for higher prices either...

Correct, provided that he took no actions to reduce fuel production.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Toddster 12944126

Do you have a record of public predictions "about how Obama's rejection of Keystone pipeline and EPA abuses and his contempt for big oil was going to lead to $5 to $6 gasoline and destroy jobs and the economy"?

Is a RW U.S. Senator saying it on the floor of the U.S. Senate public record enough for you?

. In March 2012, on the floor of the United States Senate, Mike Lee (R-UT) predicted that if Obama was reelected gas would cost $5.45 per gallon by the start 2015. Lee said that gas prices would rise 5 cents for every month Obama was in office, ultimately reaching $6.60 per gallon.

You do know Newt Gingrich, right?

. Lee was not alone. Newt Gingrich, running for the GOP nomination, predicted that if Obama was reelected he would push gas to “$10 a gallon.”

Videos of them saying this are in this link:

4 Things That Were Supposed To Happen By 2015 Because Obama Was Reelected



Here's a typical RW'er blogger associated with the Heritage Foundation:

.

1. Gas Prices Are Skyrocketing Under President Obama: The oil futures market is just that, a futures market. The price-per-barrel spikes in oil this week have not affected the domestic market yet. In fact, former Shell Oil President John Hofmeister made the prediction in December 2010 that America would face $5/gallon gasoline by 2012, a full month before the revolution in Egypt began.

And:

. Jobs Are Being Killed by Obama’s Oil Policies: As a direct result of Obama’s oil policies, companies that help supply our domestic energy needs are going out of business.

And

. And More Jobs Are Being Killed: Vendors, suppliers, even restaurants and retailers are losing ground or going out of business as a result of the economically crippling policies Obama has unilaterally imposed.

10 Things You Need to Know About High Gas Prices and Obama’s Oil Policy


And here's American Enterprise Institute wrapping it all up:

1. Marc A. Thiessen@marcthiessen

March 5, 2012 3:02 pm | AEIdeas


6. Obama, unworried about the impact of gas and electricity prices on his reelection, will finally wage the regulatory war on fossil fuels the Left demands.

.
10 disasters America will face if Obama gets a second term
Politics and Public Opinion

The damage of a second Obama term could be potentially irrevocable. I asked a number of conservative thinkers what they feared most from a second term, and compiled this list of the top ten disasters that would befall America if Obama were re-elected this fall:

1. Obamacare will not be repealed.

2. The unprecedented levels of spending in Obama’s first four years will become the new floor, as America sets new records for fiscal profligacy and debt.

3. Job creators will face massive tax increases, and more Americans will come off the tax rolls—resulting in fewer citizens with a stake in keeping taxes low and more with a stake in protecting benefits.

4. Government dependency, already at record levels, will continue to grow.

5. Four lost years in dealing with the entitlement crisis will become eight—digging us into a hole from which we may not be able to emerge.

6. Obama, unworried about the impact of gas and electricity prices on his reelection, will finally wage the regulatory war on fossil fuels the Left demands.

7. He will unleash the Environmental Protection Agency to impose crushing new burdens on U.S. business.

8. His administration’s assault on religious freedom will go on and expand to new areas.

9. The Defense Department will be gutted, with cuts so deep that America will no longer be a superpower.

10. Obama could have the opportunity to appoint more liberal Supreme Court justices, ending the Roberts court in all but name for a generation.

10 disasters America will face if Obama gets a second term - AEI



And Rush of course:

.
4. The entire U.S. economy was supposed to collapse

Rush Limbaugh predicted that “the country’s economy is going to collapse if Obama is re-elected.” Limbaugh was confident in his prediction: “There’s no if about this. And it’s gonna be ugly. It’s gonna be gut wrenching, but it will happen.”

....

Limbaugh said it could take “a year and a half, two years, three years.” It’s been two years and two months since Limbaugh’s prediction, so he still technically has another 10 months to be proven right.

4 Things That Were Supposed To Happen By 2015 Because Obama Was Reelected


Romney was wrong too as he conveniently forgot what he wrote in his own book about certain benefits of higher gas prices:

.
In the book, Mr. Romney called for greater domestic exploration and drilling. And he expressed concern about the collateral damage from higher energy prices on people who drive great distances, businesses that consume a lot of energy and people on fixed incomes.

But he acknowledged that allowing the price for gas and oil to rise could be the centerpiece of “game-changing incentives” that would alter consumer behavior when it came to buying cars and using electricity. That, he wrote, could help the country wean itself off an overreliance on foreign oil.

“To become energy secure, we may need to turn to those game-changing incentives that will lead individuals and businesses of all kinds to invest in efficiency and to reduce their use of oil and energy,” he wrote.

Campaign aides say Mr. Romney’s position on energy remains consistent. They say the energy chapter in his book carefully lays out the beliefs he now espouses as he seeks to become the Republican nominee. Asked to square Mr. Romney’s statements in his book with his recent criticism of Mr. Obama, the Romney campaign replied by reiterating its assertion that the president is harming the economy by pushing for higher energy costs.

“President Obama is succeeding in his efforts to drive energy prices higher, producing the hardship for American families and businesses that Governor Romney predicted,” Andrea Saul, a spokeswoman for Mr. Romney, said. “This is exactly why the governor has always rejected proposals that would increase prices, and why he instead supports a strategy of developing the extraordinary energy resources that we have in this country.”

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/04/0...bama-for-rising-gas-prices.html?referer=&_r=0

Romney "acknowledged that allowing the price for gas and oil to rise could be the centerpiece of “game-changing incentives” that would alter consumer behavior when it came to buying cars and using electricity. That, he wrote, could help the country wean itself off an overreliance on foreign oil."

 

[dblack]

If you are referring to food prices, you only have to look to the federally mandated corn Ethanol subsidy.
Once farmers saw this little federal perk, they switched corn production from feed for cattle and food and food additives to corn for ethanol.
This one subsidy has been no better than a food tax on Americans.
The price of beef, poultry( feed) dairy( feed and corn additives to some products)and anything with any type of corn derivative has skyrocketed in price.

What happened is when ethanol became a commodity and started to be used, farmers that grew other grains (soybeans, barley, oats) dropped what they were growing to grow corn. Then those grains increased in cost because of low supply. That's why all food products increased in price.

But this is what happens when you decide to burn up your food supply. If there is any irony in this at all, it's that ethanol creates more pollution to produce than gasoline.

There are dozens of other businesses and countries pouring monies into developing alternative energy including fusion reactors........You can't go forward by living in the past...

It's not that we can't produce alternatives--we can. The question is at what cost?

As of today, there is nothing that can replace the supply, reliability and strength of petroleum. We pay far less for gasoline than other countries let's say in Europe.

One of our customers was a big lib. So he had a windmill installed at his business. I kinda like windmills. They are cool looking.

One day I went there and the entire top of the windmill was gone. The owner walked by and I asked what happened to the windmill? He just waved both hands towards me as if pushing away and said "Ah!" LOL!

One of the workers said that he was only two years from breaking even on his windmill investment, then the stupid thing broke, and it cost almost as much to repair as buying a new one, so he opted to just use electricity from the electric company.

They also threw a fit when petroleum ruined the whaling industry.......autos replaced horses and was fought by old timers.........They said electricity was a fluke and would never work...

Almost no one believes that oil is permanent and alternatives will not replace it. That is not the point. The problem is that the government wants to FORCE alternatives to come in and replace oil long before they are ready to do so and place restrictions on oil (that conveniently come in the guise of taxing it more) so that customers are moved over before they should. This is bad. Allowing the tech to mature to the point that it replaces oil naturally is how it should be done.

Hmm... so, should government force taxpayers to supplement oil? Or should it just stay out of it altogether?

Hmm... so, should government force taxpayers to supplement oil?

Oil is heavily taxed.

Maybe. But that doesn't answer the question. Should government formulate policy to facilitate lower oil prices?

 

[dblack]

'

If you are referring to food prices, you only have to look to the federally mandated corn Ethanol subsidy.
Once farmers saw this little federal perk, they switched corn production from feed for cattle and food and food additives to corn for ethanol.
This one subsidy has been no better than a food tax on Americans.
The price of beef, poultry( feed) dairy( feed and corn additives to some products)and anything with any type of corn derivative has skyrocketed in price.

What happened is when ethanol became a commodity and started to be used, farmers that grew other grains (soybeans, barley, oats) dropped what they were growing to grow corn. Then those grains increased in cost because of low supply. That's why all food products increased in price.

But this is what happens when you decide to burn up your food supply. If there is any irony in this at all, it's that ethanol creates more pollution to produce than gasoline.

There are dozens of other businesses and countries pouring monies into developing alternative energy including fusion reactors........You can't go forward by living in the past...

It's not that we can't produce alternatives--we can. The question is at what cost?

As of today, there is nothing that can replace the supply, reliability and strength of petroleum. We pay far less for gasoline than other countries let's say in Europe.

One of our customers was a big lib. So he had a windmill installed at his business. I kinda like windmills. They are cool looking.

One day I went there and the entire top of the windmill was gone. The owner walked by and I asked what happened to the windmill? He just waved both hands towards me as if pushing away and said "Ah!" LOL!

One of the workers said that he was only two years from breaking even on his windmill investment, then the stupid thing broke, and it cost almost as much to repair as buying a new one, so he opted to just use electricity from the electric company.

They also threw a fit when petroleum ruined the whaling industry.......autos replaced horses and was fought by old timers.........They said electricity was a fluke and would never work...

Almost no one believes that oil is permanent and alternatives will not replace it. That is not the point. The problem is that the government wants to FORCE alternatives to come in and replace oil long before they are ready to do so and place restrictions on oil (that conveniently come in the guise of taxing it more) so that customers are moved over before they should. This is bad. Allowing the tech to mature to the point that it replaces oil naturally is how it should be done.

Hmm... so, should government force taxpayers to supplement oil? Or should it just stay out of it altogether?

That depends on what you call government supplementing oil. In general, most oil 'subsidies' are general tax provisions that should and are extended to all products (like writing off expenses). If you are talking about straight out subsidies then no, nothing should revive governmental support.

If you want to discuss something specific then bring it up as your comment really has nothing to do with mine at all.

It has plenty to do with the context of the thread. I'm just trying to get a clear understanding of your position. Most folks here seem to be of the opinion that lower oil prices are some kind of achievement. That the President should get credit for it somehow.