Riot Control: DHS Spends $500,000 on Fully Automatic Pepper Spray Launchers

[theDoctorisIn]

The Constitution does not prevent Federal law enforcement entities from purchasing completely normal and expected law enforcement tools.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

coincidence?

lmao!

 

[g5000]

I began my life as a military dependent of a man who would go on to become one of the first black staff officers in the Air Force. He fought (Army) in WWII and Korea. My Brother (RIP) fought in VietNam and retired from the Marines as an E8. My Son served in the Navy as a weapons officer. My daughter served as a JAG officer. I served in VietNam (enlisted) went to WO school and spent the rest of my career in civies (retired CW3). I truly believe that I have earned the right to "disagree" with the government whether it offends anyone's "sensibilities" or not.

People are fairly easy to understand. Usually they either under react to circumstances or they over react to circumstances. I wish to hell that I knew where I fall into those categories. Honestly, I don't know where I stand on this. I do know, however, that NO police department needs the kind of resources that are currently being handed over by the government.

What is the end game of the militarization of our police? Is it to help little old ladies cross the street? Is it to help the police with better traffic enforcement? Is it designed to help improve community relations between police departments and the public?

Or is it for the specific reason of control.

A lot of this started after 9/11 and the creation of the DHS.

Every cop has a wish list of toys he would like. When the federal government began dangling these toys like candy, how could local law enforcement resist?

It's not really about control. It's about taking free stuff being thrown at you.

I served on a disaster preparedness committee in my village, and it was quickly discovered that the communications between local, state, and federal was non-existent. The coordination completely sucked. If there was a flood or earthquake or volcano or asteroid from space, we were fucked.

After 9/11, they began taking this very seriously. Everyone in the command chain needs to be able to talk to each other when disaster or a terrorist strike occurs. So a lot of money was thrown around to achieve this.

But every town has a yahoo who thinks Obama bin Laden was targeting his house. You know? So we better get some really cool cop equipment to repel Muslim invaders.

That's mostly what this is.

But you start giving a cop new toys, he is going to want to play with them...

With respect to this topic, I'd rather they be shooting rioters with little pepperballs than bullets.

 

[RandallFlagg]

The Constitution does not prevent Federal law enforcement entities from purchasing completely normal and expected law enforcement tools.

Yeah, I guess you're right. I suppose that I can see where a police department in Des Moines would need a BFV with a 20mm gun on it. Hell, why not give them an M1 Abrams? Probably need that firepower for the little punks that are out there running around on a Friday night, right?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

The Constitution does not prevent Federal law enforcement entities from purchasing completely normal and expected law enforcement tools.

Yeah, I guess you're right. I suppose that I can see where a police department in Des Moines would need a BFV with a 20mm gun on it. Hell, why not give them an M1 Abrams? Probably need that firepower for the little punks that are out there running around on a Friday night, right?

Because a paintball gun that shoots pepper spray is exactly the same thing as an Abrams tank, right?

Histrionics just make you look like an idiot.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

Oh for god's sake get your face out of Alex Jone's fly. The guy is using you like the tool that you are.[/B]

1) You hate women, as you proven several times.

2) Your avatar says only Liberals and "Scared White People Exist"

3) Stop typing in bold font.

 

[MikeK]

[...]

Folks - change is happening, just as promised. There are days when I reflect on the ways this country has changed and I think to myself that I'm glad to be 69 years of age. I am afraid, however, for my children and my grandchildren - as well as yours. Our kids and grandchildren (in my opinion) are not going to enjoy the freedoms that we had.

Our founders weep.

Well said!

Escape From Freedom, by Dr. Erich Fromm, was published in the 1940s. In this book, which is still available from Amazon, Dr. Fromm introduces the concept of authoritarianism, which was just beginning to covertly manifest here in America but which had overtly attended the rise of the Third Reich, Stalinist Russia, and certain South African regimes. Since that time I have watched the political atmosphere in this Country move in precise accord with the predictions put forth in Dr. Fromm's brilliant book.

Interestingly, it is not government which is responsible for the unmistakable drift toward totalitarianism. Rather, it is the American People, themselves, whose increasing receptiveness to imposed authority have tacitly invited government to incrementally expand its control over them and all they possess.

There is no question that the seeds of a police state were planted in Ocotober, 1982, by Ronald Reagan, who opportunistically revived and expanded on Richard Nixon's ill-advised "War On Drugs." While this ruinously costly, totally counterproductive subterfuge has utterly failed in its ostensible purpose, which is to reduce drug abuse, it has eminently succeeded in its real purpose which is a means of universally militarizing American law-enforcement at all levels, thus massively augmenting the power of government over the People to a level which is plainly beyond resistance. The simple fact is the American People are no longer citizens but have become subjects of a government which has the power to put armored cars and helmeted, machinegun-bearing soldiers called "police officers" on the streets of every inhabited place in the Nation and instantly devastate any possible effort at rebellion.

Again, this abomination has been invited by the American People, who are for the most part pre-consciously enamored with and submissive to the concept of police authority. And anyone who doubts this is urged to take pen in hand and begin a list of every police-oriented movie and television program they can recall.

In fact, I would like to see how many police-oriented movies and tv shows some of this forum's participants can think of.

 

[RandallFlagg]

The Constitution does not prevent Federal law enforcement entities from purchasing completely normal and expected law enforcement tools.

Yeah, I guess you're right. I suppose that I can see where a police department in Des Moines would need a BFV with a 20mm gun on it. Hell, why not give them an M1 Abrams? Probably need that firepower for the little punks that are out there running around on a Friday night, right?

Because a paintball gun that shoots pepper spray is exactly the same thing as an Abrams tank, right?

Histrionics just make you look like an idiot.

And your categorization of my opinion as "histrionics" makes you look like a complete and utter poseur.

and you are a "Senior mod"?? BS.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Yeah, I guess you're right. I suppose that I can see where a police department in Des Moines would need a BFV with a 20mm gun on it. Hell, why not give them an M1 Abrams? Probably need that firepower for the little punks that are out there running around on a Friday night, right?

Because a paintball gun that shoots pepper spray is exactly the same thing as an Abrams tank, right?

Histrionics just make you look like an idiot.

And your categorization of my opinion as "histrionics" makes you look like a complete and utter poseur.

What word would you use to describe your hysterics about Abrams tanks, then?

I guess the term "logical fallacy" works too.




Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[RandallFlagg]

[...]

Folks - change is happening, just as promised. There are days when I reflect on the ways this country has changed and I think to myself that I'm glad to be 69 years of age. I am afraid, however, for my children and my grandchildren - as well as yours. Our kids and grandchildren (in my opinion) are not going to enjoy the freedoms that we had.

Our founders weep.

Well said!

Escape From Freedom, by Dr. Erich Fromm, was published in the 1940s. In this book, which is still available from Amazon, Dr. Fromm introduces the concept of authoritarianism, which was just beginning to covertly manifest here in America but which had overtly attended the rise of the Third Reich, Stalinist Russia, and certain South African regimes. Since that time I have watched the political atmosphere in this Country move in precise accord with the predictions put forth in Dr. Fromm's brilliant book.

Interestingly, it is not government which is responsible for the unmistakable drift toward totalitarianism. Rather, it is the American People, themselves, whose increasing receptiveness to imposed authority who have invited government to incrementally expand its control over them and all they possess.

There is no question that the seeds of a police state were planted in Ocotober, 1982, by Ronald Reagan, who opportunistically revived and expanded on Richard Nixon's ill-advised "War On Drugs." While this ruinously costly, totally counterproductive subterfuge has utterly failed in its ostensible purpose, which is to reduce drug abuse, it has eminently succeeded in its real purpose which is a means of universally militarizing American law-enforcement at all levels, thus massively augmenting the power of government over the People to a level which is plainly beyond resistance. The simple fact is the American People are no longer citizens but have become subjects of a government which has the power to put armored cars and helmeted, machinegun-bearing soldiers called "police officers" on the streets of every inhabited place in the Nation and instantly devastate any possible effort at rebellion.

Again, this abomination has been invited by the American People, who for the most part are pre-consciously enamored with and submissive to the concept of police authority. And anyone who doubts this is urged to take pen in hand and being a list of every police-oriented movie and television program they can recall.

In fact, I would like to see how many police-oriented movies and tv shows some of this forum's participants can think of.

That's an extremely salient point and I agree completely. Would you not agree then that Benjamin Franklin was, indeed, a prophet when he stated that "those who would give up liberty for a little security deserve neither"?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I fully understand that this is going to sound a bit "out there" but I really don't care any longer. I have seen the erosion of America for the past 40 or so years. I have seen the relationship between the police and the citizenry devolve over the last 10-15 years to the point that I am beginning to wonder what the future holds.

I see and hear everyday of more and more incidents of "shoot first and ask questions later". I see more and more incidents of "we hit the wrong address" and more and more incidents of "the suspect talked back to me". Not to even question the incidents of family pets being shot because the officer "thought" they were being threatened.

In my career in the military, I had occasion to work with members of Law Enforcement at various times. I had nothing but respect for these people. They worked hard to establish, and keep, their trust within their communities. Now, nearly 30 years later - I see the exact opposite.

Now, Police departments look more like combat units - ready for a firefight. I see the military equipment, used to fight wars in Iraq and Afghanistan being retrofitted for Police departments. I see the police carrying "attitude" of "it's us against them" far more often than "we are here to serve". I can recall - not too long ago - when the police made it a point to reach out to their respective constitutients to make their communities better. Anyone seen much of that lately?

I'm a conservative. I believe in conservative values. Unfortunately, there is something happening in the United States that troubles me. It's called "Control". I saw it first hand in the Soviet Union. I saw it in East Germany. I saw it in Poland. I saw it in Czechoslavakia, I saw it in Albania, I saw it in Honduras and I saw it in El Salvador.

Folks - change is happening, just as promised. There are days when I reflect on the ways this country has changed and I think to myself that I'm glad to be 69 years of age. I am afraid, however, for my children and my grandchildren - as well as yours. Our kids and grandchildren (in my opinion) are not going to enjoy the freedoms that we had.

Our founders weep.

I do not entirely disagree with this assessment. The militarization of our police is getting out of hand.

Where the lunatics go off the rails is when they start shouting about our troops coming to gun us all down any day now. Like you, I am a retired veteran, and that kind of fucking paranoid bullshit is extremely offensive to me. Alex Jones deserves a whack upside his foam-filled skull. These same shitbirds probably had "Support Our Troops" bumper stickers and gave Obama shit about not wearing a flag pin.

These little pricks have no respect for our troops. None.

My copy of "Rise of the Warrior Cop" arrived a few days ago from Amazon. The author was interviewed about 6 weeks ago by...(gasp)...Chris Hayes on MSNBC. It looks like a fascinating and scary book.

Thanks for the heads up. I just bought it in 20 seconds on the Kindle. God I love this thing.......

 

[RandallFlagg]

Because a paintball gun that shoots pepper spray is exactly the same thing as an Abrams tank, right?

Histrionics just make you look like an idiot.

And your categorization of my opinion as "histrionics" makes you look like a complete and utter poseur.

What word would you use to describe your hysterics about Abrams tanks, then?

I guess the term "logical fallacy" works too.




Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

(1) I am not hysterical and,

(2) It was a ridiculous example used for effect


a "senior mod" like yourself should be able to readily make the distinction between the two.

POSEUR.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

And your categorization of my opinion as "histrionics" makes you look like a complete and utter poseur.

What word would you use to describe your hysterics about Abrams tanks, then?

I guess the term "logical fallacy" works too.




Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

(1) I am not hysterical and,

(2) It was a ridiculous example used for effect


a "senior mod" like yourself should be able to readily make the distinction between the two.

POSEUR.

In other words, a straw man. Good on you for admitting it.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

It's not the weapons themselves. They're nothing more then paintball guns.
It's the purchase of $500'000 bucks worth of em and why now?
Expecting trouble?
It would certainly appear that way with all the weapons and ammo purchases that libs all said were BS,but turned out to be true.

If you're not concerned with the militarization of our police and government....?
Your F'n nuts!!!

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

The Constitution does not prevent Federal law enforcement entities from purchasing completely normal and expected law enforcement tools.

Yeah, I guess you're right. I suppose that I can see where a police department in Des Moines would need a BFV with a 20mm gun on it. Hell, why not give them an M1 Abrams? Probably need that firepower for the little punks that are out there running around on a Friday night, right?

Because a paintball gun that shoots pepper spray is exactly the same thing as an Abrams tank, right?

Histrionics just make you look like an idiot.

The Boston PD has a tank. Why?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Yeah, I guess you're right. I suppose that I can see where a police department in Des Moines would need a BFV with a 20mm gun on it. Hell, why not give them an M1 Abrams? Probably need that firepower for the little punks that are out there running around on a Friday night, right?

Because a paintball gun that shoots pepper spray is exactly the same thing as an Abrams tank, right?

Histrionics just make you look like an idiot.

The Boston PD has a tank. Why?

Don't ask me.

What does that have to do with these paintball guns?


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[RandallFlagg]

What word would you use to describe your hysterics about Abrams tanks, then?

I guess the term "logical fallacy" works too.




Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

(1) I am not hysterical and,

(2) It was a ridiculous example used for effect


a "senior mod" like yourself should be able to readily make the distinction between the two.

POSEUR.

In other words, a straw man. Good on you for admitting it.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

"Straw man" my ass.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

(1) I am not hysterical and,

(2) It was a ridiculous example used for effect


a "senior mod" like yourself should be able to readily make the distinction between the two.

POSEUR.

In other words, a straw man. Good on you for admitting it.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

"Straw man" my ass.

Soon he'll say he "wants to beat the shit out of" you, and when you accuse him of being threatening, he'll say strawman.

 

[MikeK]

[...]

Folks - change is happening, just as promised. There are days when I reflect on the ways this country has changed and I think to myself that I'm glad to be 69 years of age. I am afraid, however, for my children and my grandchildren - as well as yours. Our kids and grandchildren (in my opinion) are not going to enjoy the freedoms that we had.

Our founders weep.

Well said!

Escape From Freedom, by Dr. Erich Fromm, was published in the 1940s. In this book, which is still available from Amazon, Dr. Fromm introduces the concept of authoritarianism, which was just beginning to covertly manifest here in America but which had overtly attended the rise of the Third Reich, Stalinist Russia, and certain South African regimes. Since that time I have watched the political atmosphere in this Country move in precise accord with the predictions put forth in Dr. Fromm's brilliant book.

Interestingly, it is not government which is responsible for the unmistakable drift toward totalitarianism. Rather, it is the American People, themselves, whose increasing receptiveness to imposed authority who have invited government to incrementally expand its control over them and all they possess.

There is no question that the seeds of a police state were planted in Ocotober, 1982, by Ronald Reagan, who opportunistically revived and expanded on Richard Nixon's ill-advised "War On Drugs." While this ruinously costly, totally counterproductive subterfuge has utterly failed in its ostensible purpose, which is to reduce drug abuse, it has eminently succeeded in its real purpose which is a means of universally militarizing American law-enforcement at all levels, thus massively augmenting the power of government over the People to a level which is plainly beyond resistance. The simple fact is the American People are no longer citizens but have become subjects of a government which has the power to put armored cars and helmeted, machinegun-bearing soldiers called "police officers" on the streets of every inhabited place in the Nation and instantly devastate any possible effort at rebellion.

Again, this abomination has been invited by the American People, who for the most part are pre-consciously enamored with and submissive to the concept of police authority. And anyone who doubts this is urged to take pen in hand and being a list of every police-oriented movie and television program they can recall.

In fact, I would like to see how many police-oriented movies and tv shows some of this forum's participants can think of.

That's an extremely salient point and I agree completely. Would you not agree then that Benjamin Franklin was, indeed, a prophet when he stated that "those who would give up liberty for a little security deserve neither"?

Of course Franklin was right. And I'm quite certain the average American would nod in firm agreement with all that his quotation implies. But as Dr. Fromm has observed, this tendency toward submissive reverence for authority does not reside at the conscious level. And while the vast majority of Americans would resentfully deny they harbor this subconscious fascination, their defensive acceptance of and willingness to justify the redundant militarization of enforcement authority, from their local police to the increasing number of federal enforcement agencies, is unspoken though undeniable approval.

Again, the obvious appetite for police oriented (authoritarian) movies and television drama is unmistakable evidence that Dr. Fromm is right. He presented his observation and prediction long before television found its way into American homes but today one cannot thumb through the cable tv channels without finding one authority or enforcement based drama after another. Just look at the TV Guide listings. America is infinitely more interested in "enforcement" drama in one form or another than in any other subject matter. In fact, it literally borders on mass preconscious obsession.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Because a paintball gun that shoots pepper spray is exactly the same thing as an Abrams tank, right?

Histrionics just make you look like an idiot.

The Boston PD has a tank. Why?

Don't ask me.

What does that have to do with these paintball guns?


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

It doesn't, but you brought up the Abrams tank. I'm just pointing out that there are police departments with heavy military equipment. The OP aside, the concern is not all paranoia.