Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
That's a load of crap.
Harsher punishments do not lead to more pliant convicts. It leads to hardened convicts.
When back on the outside, with no skills and a bad attitude, they wind up re-offending.
We don't need to be militarizing police and giving them "no knock" warrants.
We need to be re-thinking how we deal with people who get caught in the prison/crime cycle.
I think if you had more information, or at least have read between the lines, you would have wondered, "Why did they need an assault force with body armour and 12 guys to take down an innocent pot-head just minding his own business growing part of nature?"
Don't you think the girlfriend told the cops this guy was psycho or that he may have had a previous violent record? Like, duh.
It was a good thing they were wearing all their gear or there would have been more causualties. The cops shot Stewart only twice and showed great restraint on their part. He recovered enough to later hang himself.
It's more likely the police had more information that just that of the girlfriend. I'm guessing he wasn't new to the police.
Stories like this always leave out key facts that don't fit they're narrative. They may have had a UC do a buy preceding the search, could have been a whole host of evidence that we haven't heard about.
Not often, if ever does a judge issue a warrant based on hearsay, especially from an ex, be it girlfriend, wife, husband etc.....
Yeah, good points. We like to fill in the blanks but we don't know.
The point of the article really isn't this incident and getting lost in its details; it's the pattern of police militarization. Stewart was the lead story but we've heard several others. I'm not as concerned with this guy as with SWAT teams jumping Tibetan monks and college girls and everyday citizens for delinquent student loans, overstaying visas and buying water.
That's a load of crap.
Harsher punishments do not lead to more pliant convicts. It leads to hardened convicts.
When back on the outside, with no skills and a bad attitude, they wind up re-offending.
We don't need to be militarizing police and giving them "no knock" warrants.
We need to be re-thinking how we deal with people who get caught in the prison/crime cycle.
Crap is what our current liberalized criminal justice system has become over the last half century. Violent crime is out of control in so many Leftist Democrat strongholds in Detroit, Stockton and St. Louis, and so and so on.
Beside enforcing anti-gang laws, hardcore punishment should be restored for those in prison. All but the most disabled should be linked together on chains and work outside instead of forming racial prison gangs and killing each other inside all day long.
All capital murderers, predatory rapists and pedophiles, along with all 3rd timer repeat violent felons, should be automatically executed after their convictions.
You would only need to execute only about 200,000 before most violent criminals would stop doing acts of violence.
An once of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
That's a load of crap.
Harsher punishments do not lead to more pliant convicts. It leads to hardened convicts.
When back on the outside, with no skills and a bad attitude, they wind up re-offending.
We don't need to be militarizing police and giving them "no knock" warrants.
We need to be re-thinking how we deal with people who get caught in the prison/crime cycle.
Crap is what our current liberalized criminal justice system has become over the last half century. Violent crime is out of control in so many Leftist Democrat strongholds in Detroit, Stockton and St. Louis, and so and so on.
Beside enforcing anti-gang laws, hardcore punishment should be restored for those in prison. All but the most disabled should be linked together on chains and work outside instead of forming racial prison gangs and killing each other inside all day long.
All capital murderers, predatory rapists and pedophiles, along with all 3rd timer repeat violent felons, should be automatically executed after their convictions.
You would only need to execute only about 200,000 before most violent criminals would stop doing acts of violence.
An once of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Once again, what does a guy growing a plant, a woman suspected of not paying a student loan, a suspected gambler getting a cellphone out of his pocket, a college girl buying a 12-pack of water for a fundraiser, or a group of Tibetan monks have to do with "acts of violence"?
I put this to you yesterday and all you had was
Crap is what our current liberalized criminal justice system has become over the last half century. Violent crime is out of control in so many Leftist Democrat strongholds in Detroit, Stockton and St. Louis, and so and so on.
Beside enforcing anti-gang laws, hardcore punishment should be restored for those in prison. All but the most disabled should be linked together on chains and work outside instead of forming racial prison gangs and killing each other inside all day long.
All capital murderers, predatory rapists and pedophiles, along with all 3rd timer repeat violent felons, should be automatically executed after their convictions.
You would only need to execute only about 200,000 before most violent criminals would stop doing acts of violence.
An once of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Once again, what does a guy growing a plant, a woman suspected of not paying a student loan, a suspected gambler getting a cellphone out of his pocket, a college girl buying a 12-pack of water for a fundraiser, or a group of Tibetan monks have to do with "acts of violence"?
I put this to you yesterday and all you had was
I already conceded those other acts by those SWAT agencies were wrong---and with all the people and cops in this country, mistakes and bad judgement are going to happen.
But your whole original post focused on the Stewart case. NOT JUST a guy growing A plant---but a psychotic drug dealer---and a cop killer on top of that.
Military SWAT teams are exactly what are needed to serve legitimate high risk warrents---as was proven in the Stewart case.
Save yourself some grief next time and research your topics.
). Then you went on to rant about "violent crime", which has absolutely nothing to do with the topic. Then in blatant exhibition of superficial simplistic intellect, you hung a political label on me with no basis and on the defendant -- a man you've never met -- with "this guy was a psycho", also with no basis.
[
I don't speculate things into the story I have no evidence for, so no I have no idea what the girlfriend's story was, because it's not in the article -- double duh.
What I do see is twelve guys in military garb with a battering ram acting on hearsay about a plant. What I see is Fish & Wildlife pulling a military raid on a woman suspected of owing a student loan. What I see is a gambling suspect shot dead by a military posse because he reached for a cell phone; what I see is a 20-year old college student swarmed by seven military types who jumped on her car and pulled guns because she bought a 12-pack of water.
What I see is a pattern. Not sure what it is you see.
What I kind of see is an arms race. The Gun Makers sell bigger and badder guns to the bad guys, the cops need to arm themselves with bigger and badder guns to compensate.
According to your own OP, this guy was able to get off 31 rounds vs. 250 fired by 12 cops. Now, I don't know what the magazine capacity on a 9mm Baretta is, but he had to reload at least twice. Yet all these rounds fired off, he wasn't killed.
He managed to wound/kill seven officers, while he was only hit twice himself. This wasn't some easy going hippy just growing some pot, this really does sound like a serious criminal.
from the Wall Street Journal:
>> On Jan. 4 of last year, a local narcotics strike force conducted a raid on the Ogden, Utah, home of Matthew David Stewart at 8:40 p.m. The 12 officers were acting on a tip from Mr. Stewart's former girlfriend, who said that he was growing marijuana in his basement. Mr. Stewart awoke, naked, to the sound of a battering ram taking down his door. Thinking that he was being invaded by criminals, as he later claimed, he grabbed his 9-millimeter Beretta pistol.
The police say that they knocked and identified themselves, though Mr. Stewart and his neighbors said they heard no such announcement. Mr. Stewart fired 31 rounds, the police more than 250. Six of the officers were wounded, and Officer Jared Francom was killed. Mr. Stewart himself was shot twice before he was arrested. He was charged with several crimes, including the murder of Officer Francom.
... after losing a hearing last May on the legality of the search warrant, Mr. Stewart hanged himself in his jail cell.
The police tactics at issue in the Stewart case are no anomaly. Since the 1960s, in response to a range of perceived threats, law-enforcement agencies across the U.S., at every level of government, have been blurring the line between police officer and soldier. <<
I'm reminded of the squad of ABC agents who jumped a college girl at a grocery store because she bought a case of water. Wherever that thread is...
Thoughts?
31 rounds from a Berretta? Must have been a Px4 and which means he had to swap mags at least once. If not he had to swap mags three times.
Hearing indicates search was legal.
So you're actually suggesting that twelve military-style cops, acting on the word of one person, battering-ramming a citizen's door and barging in with guns, on the suspicion that he might be growing a piece of Nature -- is reasonable behaviour?
Thanks for identifying yourself. Always good to know who the fascist apologists are in advance.
I think if you had more information, or at least have read between the lines, you would have wondered, "Why did they need an assault force with body armour and 12 guys to take down an innocent pot-head just minding his own business growing part of nature?"
Don't you think the girlfriend told the cops this guy was psycho or that he may have had a previous violent record? Like, duh.
It was a good thing they were wearing all their gear or there would have been more causualties. The cops shot Stewart only twice and showed great restraint on their part. He recovered enough to later hang himself.
It's more likely the police had more information that just that of the girlfriend. I'm guessing he wasn't new to the police.
Stories like this always leave out key facts that don't fit they're narrative. They may have had a UC do a buy preceding the search, could have been a whole host of evidence that we haven't heard about.
Not often, if ever does a judge issue a warrant based on hearsay, especially from an ex, be it girlfriend, wife, husband etc.....
It's more likely the police had more information that just that of the girlfriend. I'm guessing he wasn't new to the police.
Stories like this always leave out key facts that don't fit they're narrative. They may have had a UC do a buy preceding the search, could have been a whole host of evidence that we haven't heard about.
Not often, if ever does a judge issue a warrant based on hearsay, especially from an ex, be it girlfriend, wife, husband etc.....
Yeah, good points. We like to fill in the blanks but we don't know.
The point of the article really isn't this incident and getting lost in its details; it's the pattern of police militarization. Stewart was the lead story but we've heard several others. I'm not as concerned with this guy as with SWAT teams jumping Tibetan monks and college girls and everyday citizens for delinquent student loans, overstaying visas and buying water.
The police are simply doing their job, you just don't like them or their tactics.
I'll concede that there are some "bad" cops out there but there is bad people in every profession. Would you paint all NFL players as murderers and such because of the few that are murderers and such? I think not.
[
Still see nothing but stupidity and ignorance, I bet you cannot name more than 5 "battles" where the cops were outgunned by bad guys in the last 20 years. In fact, if we toss out the single bank robbery in LA that you do know about, you can't name any.
Figured there would be some police state/nazi state apologists in here.from the Wall Street Journal:
>> On Jan. 4 of last year, a local narcotics strike force conducted a raid on the Ogden, Utah, home of Matthew David Stewart at 8:40 p.m. The 12 officers were acting on a tip from Mr. Stewart's former girlfriend, who said that he was growing marijuana in his basement. Mr. Stewart awoke, naked, to the sound of a battering ram taking down his door. Thinking that he was being invaded by criminals, as he later claimed, he grabbed his 9-millimeter Beretta pistol.
The police say that they knocked and identified themselves, though Mr. Stewart and his neighbors said they heard no such announcement. Mr. Stewart fired 31 rounds, the police more than 250. Six of the officers were wounded, and Officer Jared Francom was killed. Mr. Stewart himself was shot twice before he was arrested. He was charged with several crimes, including the murder of Officer Francom.
... after losing a hearing last May on the legality of the search warrant, Mr. Stewart hanged himself in his jail cell.
The police tactics at issue in the Stewart case are no anomaly. Since the 1960s, in response to a range of perceived threats, law-enforcement agencies across the U.S., at every level of government, have been blurring the line between police officer and soldier. <<
I'm reminded of the squad of ABC agents who jumped a college girl at a grocery store because she bought a case of water. Wherever that thread is...
Thoughts?
I think you are a victim's rights crybaby.
Reading the article further, Stewart had a large supply of MJ in his basement. For self-use so he said.
When someone knocks on your door at night, you ask who it is and try to look at who is at the other side of the door.
As I have the same gun as Mr. Stewart, he shot all the 15 rounds in his mag plus one in the chamber, then reloaded, and fired another full 15 round magazine. This is negligent overkill. Mr. Stewart was an evil psychopath. It was good that he hung himself in jail so no further resources were expended.
My only sympathies go the slain cop and his family.
Yeah because the "justice" system is always right and legit...from the Wall Street Journal:
>> On Jan. 4 of last year, a local narcotics strike force conducted a raid on the Ogden, Utah, home of Matthew David Stewart at 8:40 p.m. The 12 officers were acting on a tip from Mr. Stewart's former girlfriend, who said that he was growing marijuana in his basement. Mr. Stewart awoke, naked, to the sound of a battering ram taking down his door. Thinking that he was being invaded by criminals, as he later claimed, he grabbed his 9-millimeter Beretta pistol.
The police say that they knocked and identified themselves, though Mr. Stewart and his neighbors said they heard no such announcement. Mr. Stewart fired 31 rounds, the police more than 250. Six of the officers were wounded, and Officer Jared Francom was killed. Mr. Stewart himself was shot twice before he was arrested. He was charged with several crimes, including the murder of Officer Francom.
... after losing a hearing last May on the legality of the search warrant, Mr. Stewart hanged himself in his jail cell.
The police tactics at issue in the Stewart case are no anomaly. Since the 1960s, in response to a range of perceived threats, law-enforcement agencies across the U.S., at every level of government, have been blurring the line between police officer and soldier. <<
I'm reminded of the squad of ABC agents who jumped a college girl at a grocery store because she bought a case of water. Wherever that thread is...
Thoughts?
31 rounds from a Berretta? Must have been a Px4 and which means he had to swap mags at least once. If not he had to swap mags three times.
Hearing indicates search was legal.
[
Still see nothing but stupidity and ignorance, I bet you cannot name more than 5 "battles" where the cops were outgunned by bad guys in the last 20 years. In fact, if we toss out the single bank robbery in LA that you do know about, you can't name any.
That's not the point I was trying to make. So if you promise to take one of your anti-Crazy Pills before you read this, I'll try again.
Civilians should not have semi-automatic weapons, automatic weapons, 100 round clips, armor piercing bullets or any of the other stuff the gun makers are pushing out there. Because that means the criminals will get them, eventually.
And when they do, I want the cops to be better armed. I want them to have a numerical superiority on the bad guys.
[
Still see nothing but stupidity and ignorance, I bet you cannot name more than 5 "battles" where the cops were outgunned by bad guys in the last 20 years. In fact, if we toss out the single bank robbery in LA that you do know about, you can't name any.
That's not the point I was trying to make. So if you promise to take one of your anti-Crazy Pills before you read this, I'll try again.
Civilians should not have semi-automatic weapons, automatic weapons, 100 round clips, armor piercing bullets or any of the other stuff the gun makers are pushing out there. Because that means the criminals will get them, eventually.
And when they do, I want the cops to be better armed. I want them to have a numerical superiority on the bad guys.
The point you are trying to make is that the cops want bigger guns because they claim the bad guys have bigger guns. Since you agree with them I am making the same demand from you I do whenver one of them make that argument.
Yet all you can do is insult me.
What makes you guys think the Cops are smart enough and disciplined enough to handle all the firepower they're given?
Is it just because they went to a Police Academy?
If you don't want it in Civilian hands, then why would you want it in Police hands?
Cops aren't recruited from a far off Universe of Intelligent beings, they come from a country where education levels and I.Q levels have been dropping. Who would want to give all that firepower to a public school educated semi-retard?
That's not the point I was trying to make. So if you promise to take one of your anti-Crazy Pills before you read this, I'll try again.
Civilians should not have semi-automatic weapons, automatic weapons, 100 round clips, armor piercing bullets or any of the other stuff the gun makers are pushing out there. Because that means the criminals will get them, eventually.
And when they do, I want the cops to be better armed. I want them to have a numerical superiority on the bad guys.
The point you are trying to make is that the cops want bigger guns because they claim the bad guys have bigger guns. Since you agree with them I am making the same demand from you I do whenver one of them make that argument.
Yet all you can do is insult me.
Guy, you are a whackjob... all there is to do is insult you.
Frankly, I want these cops to be able to go home to their families, so I want them to have the equipment they need. It's unfortunate the gunmakers have turned our streets into war zones. It's unfortunate that the NRA and idiots think this is just wonderful, because their fear makes it impossible to pass common sense gun laws.
But until we have common sense gun laws, I want the guys who have to take out the garbage to have the equipment to do so.
