Robbing Peter to Pay Paul

[DBA]

And then people wonder why socialism is becoming more attractive to more people. If we don't address this soon, those who actually want socialism will be thanking us.

We have Socialism. We have long had Socialism. The problem is our Socialism takes from the poor and working class and gives to those who already have.

Sure, but this exists along a continuum. And the longer we fail to address the holes in capitalism, the further along that continuum towards full socialism we'll go.

What you fail to understand is that what the Democrats preach is what leads us down this path. Equity of outcome instead of equity of opportunity is now pounded into kids heads from pre-school. They won’t ever stop. We could give everyone their own small home with a small car and they would be complaining that some have bigger homes and nicer cars. Much like the over-use of ”racism” has caused further division and is pushing us to far in the opposite direction, the over-use of “wealth-inequality” has pushed us too far down the road towards pure Socialism.

It is akin to the Little Boy who Cried Wolf except instead of the wolf attacking the sheep, the wolf attacks all the town people below who ignored the warnings from the little boy.

That's because the government is giving the few million dollar vacation homes.

Politicians are crooked...the vast majority of Republicans and every single Democrat minus maybe Manchin.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

And then people wonder why socialism is becoming more attractive to more people.

If we don't address this soon, those who actually want socialism will be thanking us.

We have Socialism. We have long had Socialism. The problem is our Socialism takes from the poor and working class and gives to those who already have.

no we don't have socialism....that's plain bullshit

We've had some form of Socialism since 1935

History of Social Security in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Any form of social safety net implemented by the Govt. and funded by taxes is Socialistic in nature.

Medicare, Social Security--esp. SSD and SSI, Food Stamps, a mandated minimum wage, subsidized housing, Workman's Comp., Unemployment Benefits, Disabled Benefits, OSHA, FDA, USDA--and the list goes on.

I don't go quite as far as saying that every form of regulation has a socialist element--but a great many do.

And lots of Fascism too.

Keep beating that drum gipper....I think you're lost in the -ism's---but the point is a bit moot. The complexity of the system in general obviates easy labels--and the inertia guarantees some form of the same ole, same ole--for quite some time..IMO.

Fascism, like Socialism, Communism and Capitalism--has been transformed into a stick to hit others with..it has no real meaning anymore--except in the most general of senses.

You will say that compelling people to obey these Socialistic laws is Fascist...I would say that it's a amalgam--and that the system works for most people, most times and that you can't get any better than that.

 

[pknopp]

And then people wonder why socialism is becoming more attractive to more people. If we don't address this soon, those who actually want socialism will be thanking us.

We have Socialism. We have long had Socialism. The problem is our Socialism takes from the poor and working class and gives to those who already have.

Sure, but this exists along a continuum. And the longer we fail to address the holes in capitalism, the further along that continuum towards full socialism we'll go.

What you fail to understand is that what the Democrats preach is what leads us down this path. Equity of outcome instead of equity of opportunity is now pounded into kids heads from pre-school. They won’t ever stop. We could give everyone their own small home with a small car and they would be complaining that some have bigger homes and nicer cars. Much like the over-use of ”racism” has caused further division and is pushing us to far in the opposite direction, the over-use of “wealth-inequality” has pushed us too far down the road towards pure Socialism.

It is akin to the Little Boy who Cried Wolf except instead of the wolf attacking the sheep, the wolf attacks all the town people below who ignored the warnings from the little boy.

That's because the government is giving the few million dollar vacation homes.

Politicians are crooked...the vast majority of Republicans and every single Democrat minus maybe Manchin.

Is that not our fault for continuing to re-elect them? Its why I support anything that burns it down.

 

[pknopp]

And then people wonder why socialism is becoming more attractive to more people.

If we don't address this soon, those who actually want socialism will be thanking us.

We have Socialism. We have long had Socialism. The problem is our Socialism takes from the poor and working class and gives to those who already have.

no we don't have socialism....that's plain bullshit

We've had some form of Socialism since 1935

History of Social Security in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Any form of social safety net implemented by the Govt. and funded by taxes is Socialistic in nature.

Medicare, Social Security--esp. SSD and SSI, Food Stamps, a mandated minimum wage, subsidized housing, Workman's Comp., Unemployment Benefits, Disabled Benefits, OSHA, FDA, USDA--and the list goes on.

I don't go quite as far as saying that every form of regulation has a socialist element--but a great many do.

And lots of Fascism too.

Keep beating that drum gipper....I think you're lost in the -ism's---but the point is a bit moot. The complexity of the system in general obviates easy labels--and the inertia guarantees some form of the same ole, same ole--for quite some time..IMO.

Fascism, like Socialism, Communism and Capitalism--has been transformed into a stick to hit others with..it has no real meaning anymore--except in the most general of senses.

You will say that compelling people to obey these Socialistic laws is Fascist...I would say that it's a amalgam--and that the system works for most people, most times and that you can't get any better than that.

Read the links. Its working for very few.

 

[harmonica]

And then people wonder why socialism is becoming more attractive to more people.

If we don't address this soon, those who actually want socialism will be thanking us.

We have Socialism. We have long had Socialism. The problem is our Socialism takes from the poor and working class and gives to those who already have.

no we don't have socialism....that's plain bullshit

We've had some form of Socialism since 1935

History of Social Security in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Any form of social safety net implemented by the Govt. and funded by taxes is Socialistic in nature.

Medicare, Social Security--esp. SSD and SSI, Food Stamps, a mandated minimum wage, subsidized housing, Workman's Comp., Unemployment Benefits, Disabled Benefits, OSHA, FDA, USDA--and the list goes on.

I don't go quite as far as saying that every form of regulation has a socialist element--but a great many do.

bullshit --you people mean socialism like the USSR
don't try to double talk bullshit

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

And then people wonder why socialism is becoming more attractive to more people.

If we don't address this soon, those who actually want socialism will be thanking us.

We have Socialism. We have long had Socialism. The problem is our Socialism takes from the poor and working class and gives to those who already have.

no we don't have socialism....that's plain bullshit

We've had some form of Socialism since 1935

History of Social Security in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Any form of social safety net implemented by the Govt. and funded by taxes is Socialistic in nature.

Medicare, Social Security--esp. SSD and SSI, Food Stamps, a mandated minimum wage, subsidized housing, Workman's Comp., Unemployment Benefits, Disabled Benefits, OSHA, FDA, USDA--and the list goes on.

I don't go quite as far as saying that every form of regulation has a socialist element--but a great many do.

And lots of Fascism too.

Keep beating that drum gipper....I think you're lost in the -ism's---but the point is a bit moot. The complexity of the system in general obviates easy labels--and the inertia guarantees some form of the same ole, same ole--for quite some time..IMO.

Fascism, like Socialism, Communism and Capitalism--has been transformed into a stick to hit others with..it has no real meaning anymore--except in the most general of senses.

You will say that compelling people to obey these Socialistic laws is Fascist...I would say that it's a amalgam--and that the system works for most people, most times and that you can't get any better than that.

Read the links. Its working for very few.

Use your brain..it's working for the vast majority. You seem to be caught up in what you see as the unfairness of it all--but, from my point of view..the thought that there are billionaires out there..does not detract from my quality of life..does it from yours?

Working=eating regularly...access to medical care....do you have an auto..do you have a tv...do you have a computer?

Life is good in this country...if you apply the standards of the entire world to our population. That it is better for some..well..has not that always been the way?

This is an old argument--that the system should provide for all? Defines Socialism, right?

For those that long for the system to fall like a rotten fruit---do remember that in that event..it will be the poor that die first..and in far greater numbers~

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

And then people wonder why socialism is becoming more attractive to more people.

If we don't address this soon, those who actually want socialism will be thanking us.

We have Socialism. We have long had Socialism. The problem is our Socialism takes from the poor and working class and gives to those who already have.

no we don't have socialism....that's plain bullshit

We've had some form of Socialism since 1935

History of Social Security in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Any form of social safety net implemented by the Govt. and funded by taxes is Socialistic in nature.

Medicare, Social Security--esp. SSD and SSI, Food Stamps, a mandated minimum wage, subsidized housing, Workman's Comp., Unemployment Benefits, Disabled Benefits, OSHA, FDA, USDA--and the list goes on.

I don't go quite as far as saying that every form of regulation has a socialist element--but a great many do.

bullshit --you people mean socialism like the USSR
don't try to double talk bullshit

LOL! I'm not 'you people' ignoramous...perhaps you might want to learn what words mean..before you make an ass out of yourself using them?

 

[pknopp]

And then people wonder why socialism is becoming more attractive to more people.

If we don't address this soon, those who actually want socialism will be thanking us.

We have Socialism. We have long had Socialism. The problem is our Socialism takes from the poor and working class and gives to those who already have.

no we don't have socialism....that's plain bullshit

We've had some form of Socialism since 1935

History of Social Security in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Any form of social safety net implemented by the Govt. and funded by taxes is Socialistic in nature.

Medicare, Social Security--esp. SSD and SSI, Food Stamps, a mandated minimum wage, subsidized housing, Workman's Comp., Unemployment Benefits, Disabled Benefits, OSHA, FDA, USDA--and the list goes on.

I don't go quite as far as saying that every form of regulation has a socialist element--but a great many do.

And lots of Fascism too.

Keep beating that drum gipper....I think you're lost in the -ism's---but the point is a bit moot. The complexity of the system in general obviates easy labels--and the inertia guarantees some form of the same ole, same ole--for quite some time..IMO.

Fascism, like Socialism, Communism and Capitalism--has been transformed into a stick to hit others with..it has no real meaning anymore--except in the most general of senses.

You will say that compelling people to obey these Socialistic laws is Fascist...I would say that it's a amalgam--and that the system works for most people, most times and that you can't get any better than that.

Read the links. Its working for very few.

Use your brain..it's working for the vast majority. You seem to be caught up in what you see as the unfairness of it all--but, from my point of view..the thought that there are billionaires out there..does not detract from my quality of life..does it from yours?

The Trillions in debt the markets are getting us into affect us all massively.

 

[gipper]

And then people wonder why socialism is becoming more attractive to more people.

If we don't address this soon, those who actually want socialism will be thanking us.

We have Socialism. We have long had Socialism. The problem is our Socialism takes from the poor and working class and gives to those who already have.

no we don't have socialism....that's plain bullshit

We've had some form of Socialism since 1935

History of Social Security in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Any form of social safety net implemented by the Govt. and funded by taxes is Socialistic in nature.

Medicare, Social Security--esp. SSD and SSI, Food Stamps, a mandated minimum wage, subsidized housing, Workman's Comp., Unemployment Benefits, Disabled Benefits, OSHA, FDA, USDA--and the list goes on.

I don't go quite as far as saying that every form of regulation has a socialist element--but a great many do.

And lots of Fascism too.

Keep beating that drum gipper....I think you're lost in the -ism's---but the point is a bit moot. The complexity of the system in general obviates easy labels--and the inertia guarantees some form of the same ole, same ole--for quite some time..IMO.

Fascism, like Socialism, Communism and Capitalism--has been transformed into a stick to hit others with..it has no real meaning anymore--except in the most general of senses.

You will say that compelling people to obey these Socialistic laws is Fascist...I would say that it's a amalgam--and that the system works for most people, most times and that you can't get any better than that.

I thought we were discussing the economic system. It’s hardly a capitalist system when government protects and enriches big connected corporations, while receiving massive donations from those very same corporations. At the same time, government is doing little to protect the rights of the average citizen and offers little support to vast numbers of suffering citizens.

You can call it what you like, but it certainly isn’t free market capitalism.

 

[harmonica]

And then people wonder why socialism is becoming more attractive to more people.

If we don't address this soon, those who actually want socialism will be thanking us.

We have Socialism. We have long had Socialism. The problem is our Socialism takes from the poor and working class and gives to those who already have.

no we don't have socialism....that's plain bullshit

We've had some form of Socialism since 1935

History of Social Security in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Any form of social safety net implemented by the Govt. and funded by taxes is Socialistic in nature.

Medicare, Social Security--esp. SSD and SSI, Food Stamps, a mandated minimum wage, subsidized housing, Workman's Comp., Unemployment Benefits, Disabled Benefits, OSHA, FDA, USDA--and the list goes on.

I don't go quite as far as saying that every form of regulation has a socialist element--but a great many do.

bullshit --you people mean socialism like the USSR
don't try to double talk bullshit

LOL! I'm not 'you people' ignoramous...perhaps you might want to learn what words mean..before you make an ass out of yourself using them?

stop babbling crap --we know what you mean

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

And then people wonder why socialism is becoming more attractive to more people.

If we don't address this soon, those who actually want socialism will be thanking us.

We have Socialism. We have long had Socialism. The problem is our Socialism takes from the poor and working class and gives to those who already have.

no we don't have socialism....that's plain bullshit

We've had some form of Socialism since 1935

History of Social Security in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Any form of social safety net implemented by the Govt. and funded by taxes is Socialistic in nature.

Medicare, Social Security--esp. SSD and SSI, Food Stamps, a mandated minimum wage, subsidized housing, Workman's Comp., Unemployment Benefits, Disabled Benefits, OSHA, FDA, USDA--and the list goes on.

I don't go quite as far as saying that every form of regulation has a socialist element--but a great many do.

And lots of Fascism too.

Keep beating that drum gipper....I think you're lost in the -ism's---but the point is a bit moot. The complexity of the system in general obviates easy labels--and the inertia guarantees some form of the same ole, same ole--for quite some time..IMO.

Fascism, like Socialism, Communism and Capitalism--has been transformed into a stick to hit others with..it has no real meaning anymore--except in the most general of senses.

You will say that compelling people to obey these Socialistic laws is Fascist...I would say that it's a amalgam--and that the system works for most people, most times and that you can't get any better than that.

I thought we were discussing the economic system. It’s hardly a capitalist system when government protects and enriches big connected corporations, while receiving massive donations from those every same corporations. At the same time, government is doing little to protect the rights of the average citizen and offers little support to vast numbers of suffering citizens.

You can call it what you like, but it certainly isn’t free market capitalism.

We agree on this..as i have said..it's an amalgam. Free Market Capitalism died in 1928--although it took a few more decades for the body to stop twitching.

Probably a good thing.

Disagree about the Govt. not doing much for the average citizen. Also disagree about just what 'vast numbers of suffering citizens' means.

Not seeing mass starvation..not seeing anything that I would term 'vast suffering'. We have a robust social safety net..some here at USMB will rant that it is entirely too robust!
As long as we have a multi-billion dollar diet industry..I'm going to rest easy, ya know?

Yes..things could be better...and we should strive for that.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

And then people wonder why socialism is becoming more attractive to more people.

If we don't address this soon, those who actually want socialism will be thanking us.

We have Socialism. We have long had Socialism. The problem is our Socialism takes from the poor and working class and gives to those who already have.

no we don't have socialism....that's plain bullshit

We've had some form of Socialism since 1935

History of Social Security in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Any form of social safety net implemented by the Govt. and funded by taxes is Socialistic in nature.

Medicare, Social Security--esp. SSD and SSI, Food Stamps, a mandated minimum wage, subsidized housing, Workman's Comp., Unemployment Benefits, Disabled Benefits, OSHA, FDA, USDA--and the list goes on.

I don't go quite as far as saying that every form of regulation has a socialist element--but a great many do.

bullshit --you people mean socialism like the USSR
don't try to double talk bullshit

LOL! I'm not 'you people' ignoramous...perhaps you might want to learn what words mean..before you make an ass out of yourself using them?

stop babbling crap --we know what you mean

WE? Mouse in pocket?

 

[harmonica]

And then people wonder why socialism is becoming more attractive to more people.

If we don't address this soon, those who actually want socialism will be thanking us.

We have Socialism. We have long had Socialism. The problem is our Socialism takes from the poor and working class and gives to those who already have.

no we don't have socialism....that's plain bullshit

We've had some form of Socialism since 1935

History of Social Security in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Any form of social safety net implemented by the Govt. and funded by taxes is Socialistic in nature.

Medicare, Social Security--esp. SSD and SSI, Food Stamps, a mandated minimum wage, subsidized housing, Workman's Comp., Unemployment Benefits, Disabled Benefits, OSHA, FDA, USDA--and the list goes on.

I don't go quite as far as saying that every form of regulation has a socialist element--but a great many do.

it's NOT socialism --duh--you don't even know how it works
it's not for EVERYONE!! etc

How is Social Security financed? | Press Office | SSA

How is Social Security financed?

www.ssa.gov

.

Course: Introduction to Social Security

Introduction to Social Security.

www.ssa.gov

 

[gipper]

And then people wonder why socialism is becoming more attractive to more people.

If we don't address this soon, those who actually want socialism will be thanking us.

We have Socialism. We have long had Socialism. The problem is our Socialism takes from the poor and working class and gives to those who already have.

no we don't have socialism....that's plain bullshit

We've had some form of Socialism since 1935

History of Social Security in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Any form of social safety net implemented by the Govt. and funded by taxes is Socialistic in nature.

Medicare, Social Security--esp. SSD and SSI, Food Stamps, a mandated minimum wage, subsidized housing, Workman's Comp., Unemployment Benefits, Disabled Benefits, OSHA, FDA, USDA--and the list goes on.

I don't go quite as far as saying that every form of regulation has a socialist element--but a great many do.

And lots of Fascism too.

Keep beating that drum gipper....I think you're lost in the -ism's---but the point is a bit moot. The complexity of the system in general obviates easy labels--and the inertia guarantees some form of the same ole, same ole--for quite some time..IMO.

Fascism, like Socialism, Communism and Capitalism--has been transformed into a stick to hit others with..it has no real meaning anymore--except in the most general of senses.

You will say that compelling people to obey these Socialistic laws is Fascist...I would say that it's a amalgam--and that the system works for most people, most times and that you can't get any better than that.

I thought we were discussing the economic system. It’s hardly a capitalist system when government protects and enriches big connected corporations, while receiving massive donations from those every same corporations. At the same time, government is doing little to protect the rights of the average citizen and offers little support to vast numbers of suffering citizens.

You can call it what you like, but it certainly isn’t free market capitalism.

We agree on this..as i have said..it's an amalgam. Free Market Capitalism died in 1928--although it took a few more decades for the body to stop twitching.

Probably a good thing.

Lee Camp spells it out...

Government in the US is only incompetent when it comes to helping you & me. They're ruthlessly efficient when serving the interests of the rich & powerful. In this way they act as class warriors for the wealthy.
During a public health crisis the insurance industry lobbies to kill any chance of universal healthcare. The poor & sick aren't asked what they think.
When the financial industry crashes the global economy, investment firms & big banks demand & receive bailouts. Regular people lose their homes & their life savings.
After oil spills fossil fuel corps & their bought politicians fight any calls for accountability. Their victims have no lobbyists.

 

[gipper]

And then people wonder why socialism is becoming more attractive to more people.

If we don't address this soon, those who actually want socialism will be thanking us.

We have Socialism. We have long had Socialism. The problem is our Socialism takes from the poor and working class and gives to those who already have.

no we don't have socialism....that's plain bullshit

We've had some form of Socialism since 1935

History of Social Security in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Any form of social safety net implemented by the Govt. and funded by taxes is Socialistic in nature.

Medicare, Social Security--esp. SSD and SSI, Food Stamps, a mandated minimum wage, subsidized housing, Workman's Comp., Unemployment Benefits, Disabled Benefits, OSHA, FDA, USDA--and the list goes on.

I don't go quite as far as saying that every form of regulation has a socialist element--but a great many do.

And lots of Fascism too.

Keep beating that drum gipper....I think you're lost in the -ism's---but the point is a bit moot. The complexity of the system in general obviates easy labels--and the inertia guarantees some form of the same ole, same ole--for quite some time..IMO.

Fascism, like Socialism, Communism and Capitalism--has been transformed into a stick to hit others with..it has no real meaning anymore--except in the most general of senses.

You will say that compelling people to obey these Socialistic laws is Fascist...I would say that it's a amalgam--and that the system works for most people, most times and that you can't get any better than that.

I thought we were discussing the economic system. It’s hardly a capitalist system when government protects and enriches big connected corporations, while receiving massive donations from those every same corporations. At the same time, government is doing little to protect the rights of the average citizen and offers little support to vast numbers of suffering citizens.

You can call it what you like, but it certainly isn’t free market capitalism.

We agree on this..as i have said..it's an amalgam. Free Market Capitalism died in 1928--although it took a few more decades for the body to stop twitching.

Probably a good thing.

The problem with that is what we have now, is much worse.

 

[gipper]

And then people wonder why socialism is becoming more attractive to more people.

If we don't address this soon, those who actually want socialism will be thanking us.

We have Socialism. We have long had Socialism. The problem is our Socialism takes from the poor and working class and gives to those who already have.

no we don't have socialism....that's plain bullshit

We've had some form of Socialism since 1935

History of Social Security in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Any form of social safety net implemented by the Govt. and funded by taxes is Socialistic in nature.

Medicare, Social Security--esp. SSD and SSI, Food Stamps, a mandated minimum wage, subsidized housing, Workman's Comp., Unemployment Benefits, Disabled Benefits, OSHA, FDA, USDA--and the list goes on.

I don't go quite as far as saying that every form of regulation has a socialist element--but a great many do.

And lots of Fascism too.

Keep beating that drum gipper....I think you're lost in the -ism's---but the point is a bit moot. The complexity of the system in general obviates easy labels--and the inertia guarantees some form of the same ole, same ole--for quite some time..IMO.

Fascism, like Socialism, Communism and Capitalism--has been transformed into a stick to hit others with..it has no real meaning anymore--except in the most general of senses.

You will say that compelling people to obey these Socialistic laws is Fascist...I would say that it's a amalgam--and that the system works for most people, most times and that you can't get any better than that.

I thought we were discussing the economic system. It’s hardly a capitalist system when government protects and enriches big connected corporations, while receiving massive donations from those every same corporations. At the same time, government is doing little to protect the rights of the average citizen and offers little support to vast numbers of suffering citizens.

You can call it what you like, but it certainly isn’t free market capitalism.

We agree on this..as i have said..it's an amalgam. Free Market Capitalism died in 1928--although it took a few more decades for the body to stop twitching.

Probably a good thing.

Disagree about the Govt. not doing much for the average citizen. Also disagree about just what 'vast numbers of suffering citizens' means.

Not seeing mass starvation..not seeing anything that I would term 'vast suffering'. We have a robust social safety net..some here at USMB will rant that it is entirely too robust!
As long as we have a multi-billion dollar diet industry..I'm going to rest easy, ya know?

Yes..things could be better...and we should strive for that.

I guess we will have to disagree. Poverty is a obvious problem in the world’s richest nation. When large segments of our population can’t come up with $1,000 for an emergency expense, apparently many aren’t doing very well. When our corrupt federal government continues to bail out the wealthy to the tune of billions, but offers peanuts like $1200 checks to the people, it’s obvious what’s going on. When millions lose their homes, but Wall Street who caused the Great Recession gets protected and enriched, it’s obvious.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

And then people wonder why socialism is becoming more attractive to more people.

If we don't address this soon, those who actually want socialism will be thanking us.

We have Socialism. We have long had Socialism. The problem is our Socialism takes from the poor and working class and gives to those who already have.

no we don't have socialism....that's plain bullshit

We've had some form of Socialism since 1935

History of Social Security in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Any form of social safety net implemented by the Govt. and funded by taxes is Socialistic in nature.

Medicare, Social Security--esp. SSD and SSI, Food Stamps, a mandated minimum wage, subsidized housing, Workman's Comp., Unemployment Benefits, Disabled Benefits, OSHA, FDA, USDA--and the list goes on.

I don't go quite as far as saying that every form of regulation has a socialist element--but a great many do.

And lots of Fascism too.

Keep beating that drum gipper....I think you're lost in the -ism's---but the point is a bit moot. The complexity of the system in general obviates easy labels--and the inertia guarantees some form of the same ole, same ole--for quite some time..IMO.

Fascism, like Socialism, Communism and Capitalism--has been transformed into a stick to hit others with..it has no real meaning anymore--except in the most general of senses.

You will say that compelling people to obey these Socialistic laws is Fascist...I would say that it's a amalgam--and that the system works for most people, most times and that you can't get any better than that.

I thought we were discussing the economic system. It’s hardly a capitalist system when government protects and enriches big connected corporations, while receiving massive donations from those every same corporations. At the same time, government is doing little to protect the rights of the average citizen and offers little support to vast numbers of suffering citizens.

You can call it what you like, but it certainly isn’t free market capitalism.

We agree on this..as i have said..it's an amalgam. Free Market Capitalism died in 1928--although it took a few more decades for the body to stop twitching.

Probably a good thing.

Disagree about the Govt. not doing much for the average citizen. Also disagree about just what 'vast numbers of suffering citizens' means.

Not seeing mass starvation..not seeing anything that I would term 'vast suffering'. We have a robust social safety net..some here at USMB will rant that it is entirely too robust!
As long as we have a multi-billion dollar diet industry..I'm going to rest easy, ya know?

Yes..things could be better...and we should strive for that.

I guess we will have to disagree. Poverty is a obvious problem in the world’s richest nation. When large segments of our population can’t come up with $1,000 for an emergency expense, apparently many aren’t doing very well. When our corrupt federal government continues to bail out the wealthy to the tune of billions, but offers peanuts like $1200 checks to the people, it’s obvious what’s going on. When millions lose their homes, but Wall Street who caused the Great Recession gets protected and enriched, it’s obvious.

Yes...it could be fairer, no argument there.

Life..be it individual or en-masse, is, by its nature a work in progress.

No no one has yet devised a better method for sharing the wealth...without just shifting the burden to another segment of society.

As I'm sure you know..socialism..and communism--were both envisioned as a way to do just that, right?

I don't think we disagree on the fundamental unfairness and the disparities built into the system- we disagree on how to address them..without the solutions being worse than the problems!

SHTF and a great reset is not a plan..IMO.

 

[gipper]

And then people wonder why socialism is becoming more attractive to more people.

If we don't address this soon, those who actually want socialism will be thanking us.

We have Socialism. We have long had Socialism. The problem is our Socialism takes from the poor and working class and gives to those who already have.

no we don't have socialism....that's plain bullshit

We've had some form of Socialism since 1935

History of Social Security in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Any form of social safety net implemented by the Govt. and funded by taxes is Socialistic in nature.

Medicare, Social Security--esp. SSD and SSI, Food Stamps, a mandated minimum wage, subsidized housing, Workman's Comp., Unemployment Benefits, Disabled Benefits, OSHA, FDA, USDA--and the list goes on.

I don't go quite as far as saying that every form of regulation has a socialist element--but a great many do.

And lots of Fascism too.

Keep beating that drum gipper....I think you're lost in the -ism's---but the point is a bit moot. The complexity of the system in general obviates easy labels--and the inertia guarantees some form of the same ole, same ole--for quite some time..IMO.

Fascism, like Socialism, Communism and Capitalism--has been transformed into a stick to hit others with..it has no real meaning anymore--except in the most general of senses.

You will say that compelling people to obey these Socialistic laws is Fascist...I would say that it's a amalgam--and that the system works for most people, most times and that you can't get any better than that.

I thought we were discussing the economic system. It’s hardly a capitalist system when government protects and enriches big connected corporations, while receiving massive donations from those every same corporations. At the same time, government is doing little to protect the rights of the average citizen and offers little support to vast numbers of suffering citizens.

You can call it what you like, but it certainly isn’t free market capitalism.

We agree on this..as i have said..it's an amalgam. Free Market Capitalism died in 1928--although it took a few more decades for the body to stop twitching.

Probably a good thing.

Disagree about the Govt. not doing much for the average citizen. Also disagree about just what 'vast numbers of suffering citizens' means.

Not seeing mass starvation..not seeing anything that I would term 'vast suffering'. We have a robust social safety net..some here at USMB will rant that it is entirely too robust!
As long as we have a multi-billion dollar diet industry..I'm going to rest easy, ya know?

Yes..things could be better...and we should strive for that.

I guess we will have to disagree. Poverty is a obvious problem in the world’s richest nation. When large segments of our population can’t come up with $1,000 for an emergency expense, apparently many aren’t doing very well. When our corrupt federal government continues to bail out the wealthy to the tune of billions, but offers peanuts like $1200 checks to the people, it’s obvious what’s going on. When millions lose their homes, but Wall Street who caused the Great Recession gets protected and enriched, it’s obvious.

Yes...it could be fairer, no argument there.

Life..be it individual or en-masse, is, by its nature a work in progress.

No no one has yet devised a better method for sharing the wealth...without just shifting the burden to another segment of society.

As I'm sure you know..socialism..and communism--were both envisioned as a way to do just that, right?

I don't think we disagree on the fundamental unfairness and the disparities built into the system- we disagree on how to address them..without the solutions being worse than the problems!

SHTF and a great reset is not a plan..IMO.

I think the solutions are evident.
- Government needs to get out of the business of protecting and enriching big corporations.
- They need to protect the rights of all citizens.
- No more private donations to politicians or political parties.
- Public funding of all campaigns
- Term limit Congress.
- Promote third parties and stop the duopoly.
- Eliminate the ridiculous tax system that benefits the wealthy.
- Government needs to invest in education for all and fix our infrastructure.
- M4A needs to be enacted, as it will save money over the ridiculously expensive and ineffective system we have now, that bankrupts thousands of poor Americans every year.
- Homelessness needs to be addressed, getting these poor people off our streets.

 

[pknopp]

And then people wonder why socialism is becoming more attractive to more people.

If we don't address this soon, those who actually want socialism will be thanking us.

We have Socialism. We have long had Socialism. The problem is our Socialism takes from the poor and working class and gives to those who already have.

no we don't have socialism....that's plain bullshit

We've had some form of Socialism since 1935

History of Social Security in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Any form of social safety net implemented by the Govt. and funded by taxes is Socialistic in nature.

Medicare, Social Security--esp. SSD and SSI, Food Stamps, a mandated minimum wage, subsidized housing, Workman's Comp., Unemployment Benefits, Disabled Benefits, OSHA, FDA, USDA--and the list goes on.

I don't go quite as far as saying that every form of regulation has a socialist element--but a great many do.

And lots of Fascism too.

Keep beating that drum gipper....I think you're lost in the -ism's---but the point is a bit moot. The complexity of the system in general obviates easy labels--and the inertia guarantees some form of the same ole, same ole--for quite some time..IMO.

Fascism, like Socialism, Communism and Capitalism--has been transformed into a stick to hit others with..it has no real meaning anymore--except in the most general of senses.

You will say that compelling people to obey these Socialistic laws is Fascist...I would say that it's a amalgam--and that the system works for most people, most times and that you can't get any better than that.

I thought we were discussing the economic system. It’s hardly a capitalist system when government protects and enriches big connected corporations, while receiving massive donations from those every same corporations. At the same time, government is doing little to protect the rights of the average citizen and offers little support to vast numbers of suffering citizens.

You can call it what you like, but it certainly isn’t free market capitalism.

We agree on this..as i have said..it's an amalgam. Free Market Capitalism died in 1928--although it took a few more decades for the body to stop twitching.

Probably a good thing.

Disagree about the Govt. not doing much for the average citizen. Also disagree about just what 'vast numbers of suffering citizens' means.

Not seeing mass starvation..not seeing anything that I would term 'vast suffering'. We have a robust social safety net..some here at USMB will rant that it is entirely too robust!
As long as we have a multi-billion dollar diet industry..I'm going to rest easy, ya know?

Yes..things could be better...and we should strive for that.

I guess we will have to disagree. Poverty is a obvious problem in the world’s richest nation. When large segments of our population can’t come up with $1,000 for an emergency expense, apparently many aren’t doing very well. When our corrupt federal government continues to bail out the wealthy to the tune of billions, but offers peanuts like $1200 checks to the people, it’s obvious what’s going on. When millions lose their homes, but Wall Street who caused the Great Recession gets protected and enriched, it’s obvious.

Yes...it could be fairer, no argument there.

Life..be it individual or en-masse, is, by its nature a work in progress.

No no one has yet devised a better method for sharing the wealth...without just shifting the burden to another segment of society.

As I'm sure you know..socialism..and communism--were both envisioned as a way to do just that, right?

I don't think we disagree on the fundamental unfairness and the disparities built into the system- we disagree on how to address them..without the solutions being worse than the problems!

SHTF and a great reset is not a plan..IMO.

I've seen you offer no workable solutions.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

And then people wonder why socialism is becoming more attractive to more people.

If we don't address this soon, those who actually want socialism will be thanking us.

We have Socialism. We have long had Socialism. The problem is our Socialism takes from the poor and working class and gives to those who already have.

no we don't have socialism....that's plain bullshit

We've had some form of Socialism since 1935

History of Social Security in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Any form of social safety net implemented by the Govt. and funded by taxes is Socialistic in nature.

Medicare, Social Security--esp. SSD and SSI, Food Stamps, a mandated minimum wage, subsidized housing, Workman's Comp., Unemployment Benefits, Disabled Benefits, OSHA, FDA, USDA--and the list goes on.

I don't go quite as far as saying that every form of regulation has a socialist element--but a great many do.

And lots of Fascism too.

Keep beating that drum gipper....I think you're lost in the -ism's---but the point is a bit moot. The complexity of the system in general obviates easy labels--and the inertia guarantees some form of the same ole, same ole--for quite some time..IMO.

Fascism, like Socialism, Communism and Capitalism--has been transformed into a stick to hit others with..it has no real meaning anymore--except in the most general of senses.

You will say that compelling people to obey these Socialistic laws is Fascist...I would say that it's a amalgam--and that the system works for most people, most times and that you can't get any better than that.

I thought we were discussing the economic system. It’s hardly a capitalist system when government protects and enriches big connected corporations, while receiving massive donations from those every same corporations. At the same time, government is doing little to protect the rights of the average citizen and offers little support to vast numbers of suffering citizens.

You can call it what you like, but it certainly isn’t free market capitalism.

We agree on this..as i have said..it's an amalgam. Free Market Capitalism died in 1928--although it took a few more decades for the body to stop twitching.

Probably a good thing.

Disagree about the Govt. not doing much for the average citizen. Also disagree about just what 'vast numbers of suffering citizens' means.

Not seeing mass starvation..not seeing anything that I would term 'vast suffering'. We have a robust social safety net..some here at USMB will rant that it is entirely too robust!
As long as we have a multi-billion dollar diet industry..I'm going to rest easy, ya know?

Yes..things could be better...and we should strive for that.

I guess we will have to disagree. Poverty is a obvious problem in the world’s richest nation. When large segments of our population can’t come up with $1,000 for an emergency expense, apparently many aren’t doing very well. When our corrupt federal government continues to bail out the wealthy to the tune of billions, but offers peanuts like $1200 checks to the people, it’s obvious what’s going on. When millions lose their homes, but Wall Street who caused the Great Recession gets protected and enriched, it’s obvious.

Yes...it could be fairer, no argument there.

Life..be it individual or en-masse, is, by its nature a work in progress.

No no one has yet devised a better method for sharing the wealth...without just shifting the burden to another segment of society.

As I'm sure you know..socialism..and communism--were both envisioned as a way to do just that, right?

I don't think we disagree on the fundamental unfairness and the disparities built into the system- we disagree on how to address them..without the solutions being worse than the problems!

SHTF and a great reset is not a plan..IMO.

I think the solutions are evident.
- Government needs to get out of the business of protecting and enriching big corporations.
- They need to protect the rights of all citizens.
- No more private donations to politicians or political parties.
- Public funding of all campaigns
- Term limit Congress.
- Promote third parties and stop the duopoly.
- Eliminate the ridiculous tax system that benefits the wealthy.
- Government needs to invest in education for all and fix our infrastructure.
- M4A needs to be enacted, as it will save money over the ridiculously expensive and ineffective system we have now, that bankrupts thousands of poor Americans every year.
- Homelessness needs to be addressed, getting these poor people off our streets.

It is a great Manifesto you have there....hard to disagree with any of it.

It is a bit short on process..those dirty details of implementation.

People like to be rich..'cause..rich is better, right? Govt. is composed of people.

Things like 'Rights of all citizens' You cannot even get a random 100 people to agree on what that even means!

Some of the things you list are basically tweaks to the existing system..and I'm with you on that.

Good luck with term limits..although I support it. True tax reform? I wish!

SCOTUS embraced Citizen's United---money=free speech, remember?

There is no cutting of the Gordian Knot..short of catastrophe or overpowering external compulsion.

Just incremental progress...hopefully unnoticed.