Romney has money parked in the Cayman Islands???

[Sallow]

Romney Parks Millions in Cayman Islands - ABC News

This alarms me a bit. I'm sure further investigation will follow but this causes me a few red flags.

We gotta make damn sure our nominee is FULLY vetted. We don't need any October surprises to cost us the election.

It should alarm you.

The average American doesn't engage these kind of shell games to hide wealth from the tax collector.

 

[Sallow]

I am an 'average working folk who play by the rules and pay their taxes and is struggling in this economy'.

As long as Romney, or Obama, or Newt, or who the fuck ever, doesn't break any laws, I don't care HOW they shelter their income.

If you don't like the tax laws, elect someone who will change them. Don't whine about people who studied them, found the flaws, and used them.

For the record, I think the tax laws need to be simplified, and loopholes that allow tax shelters offshore need to be fixed.

Why isn't it tax evasion? Oh yeah... because some(probably Conservative) legislation made it "legal".

And if a Democrat did this? you'd be equally up in arms?

Yeah I would be..

I personally found it amazing and disgusting that members of congress weren't subject to insider trading rules. That crosses party lines.

 

[Conservative]

Okay, CG, if you really think this is going to go over well with average working folks who play by the rules and pay their taxes and are struggling in this economy.

I am an 'average working folk who play by the rules and pay their taxes and is struggling in this economy'.

As long as Romney, or Obama, or Newt, or who the fuck ever, doesn't break any laws, I don't care HOW they shelter their income.

If you don't like the tax laws, elect someone who will change them. Don't whine about people who studied them, found the flaws, and used them.

For the record, I think the tax laws need to be simplified, and loopholes that allow tax shelters offshore need to be fixed.

Why isn't it tax evasion? Oh yeah... because some(probably Conservative) legislation made it "legal".

you apparently do not understand the term 'tax evasion'.

Tax Evasion legal definition of Tax Evasion. Tax Evasion synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

The U.S. Supreme Court, in Spies v. United States, 317 U.S. 492, 63 S. Ct. 364, 87 L. Ed. 418 (1943), ruled that an Overt Act is necessary to give rise to the crime of Income Tax evasion. Therefore, the government must show that the taxpayer attempted to evade the tax rather than passively neglected to file a return, which could be prosecuted under section 7203 as a misdemeanor. A person who has evaded taxes over the course of several years may be charged with multiple counts for each year taxes were allegedly evaded.

According to the Supreme Court in Sansone v. United States, 380 U.S. 343, 85 S. Ct. 1004, 13 L. Ed. 2d 882 (1965), a conviction under section 7201 requires proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt as to each of three elements: the existence of a tax deficiency, willfulness in an attempted evasion of tax, and an affirmative act constituting an evasion or attempted evasion of the tax.

An affirmative act is anything done to mislead the government or conceal funds to avoid payment of an admitted and accurate deficiency. Affirmative behavior can take two forms: the evasion of assessment and the evasion of payment. Affirmative acts of evasion include evading taxes by placing assets in another's name, dealing in cash, and having receipts or debts paid through and in the name of another person. Merely failing to pay assessed tax, without more, does not constitute tax evasion.

The keeping of a double set of books or the making of false invoices or documents can be proof of tax evasion. In some cases the mailing of a false return may constitute the overt act required under section 7201.

NONE of that applies to Romney. If you think it does, then prove it.

 

[Conservative]

Why isn't it tax evasion? Oh yeah... because some(probably Conservative) legislation made it "legal".

And if a Democrat did this? you'd be equally up in arms?

Yeah I would be..

I personally found it amazing and disgusting that members of congress weren't subject to insider trading rules. That crosses party lines.

we're not talking about insider trading (which I agree with you on, btw). We're talking about a US citizen, taking full advantage of existing law, and sheltering income. No laws were broken, no 'evasion' took place (see my posted definition of evasion).

 

[Sallow]

I am an 'average working folk who play by the rules and pay their taxes and is struggling in this economy'.

As long as Romney, or Obama, or Newt, or who the fuck ever, doesn't break any laws, I don't care HOW they shelter their income.

If you don't like the tax laws, elect someone who will change them. Don't whine about people who studied them, found the flaws, and used them.

For the record, I think the tax laws need to be simplified, and loopholes that allow tax shelters offshore need to be fixed.

Why isn't it tax evasion? Oh yeah... because some(probably Conservative) legislation made it "legal".

you apparently do not understand the term 'tax evasion'.

Tax Evasion legal definition of Tax Evasion. Tax Evasion synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

The U.S. Supreme Court, in Spies v. United States, 317 U.S. 492, 63 S. Ct. 364, 87 L. Ed. 418 (1943), ruled that an Overt Act is necessary to give rise to the crime of Income Tax evasion. Therefore, the government must show that the taxpayer attempted to evade the tax rather than passively neglected to file a return, which could be prosecuted under section 7203 as a misdemeanor. A person who has evaded taxes over the course of several years may be charged with multiple counts for each year taxes were allegedly evaded.

According to the Supreme Court in Sansone v. United States, 380 U.S. 343, 85 S. Ct. 1004, 13 L. Ed. 2d 882 (1965), a conviction under section 7201 requires proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt as to each of three elements: the existence of a tax deficiency, willfulness in an attempted evasion of tax, and an affirmative act constituting an evasion or attempted evasion of the tax.

An affirmative act is anything done to mislead the government or conceal funds to avoid payment of an admitted and accurate deficiency. Affirmative behavior can take two forms: the evasion of assessment and the evasion of payment. Affirmative acts of evasion include evading taxes by placing assets in another's name, dealing in cash, and having receipts or debts paid through and in the name of another person. Merely failing to pay assessed tax, without more, does not constitute tax evasion.

The keeping of a double set of books or the making of false invoices or documents can be proof of tax evasion. In some cases the mailing of a false return may constitute the overt act required under section 7201.

NONE of that applies to Romney. If you think it does, then prove it.

Hey..if it's fine..then there should be no problem with reporting on it.

It would be just like if he went to Vegas and hired prostitutes. It's not illegal.

 

[Conservative]

Okay, CG, if you really think this is going to go over well with average working folks who play by the rules and pay their taxes and are struggling in this economy.

I am an 'average working folk who play by the rules and pay their taxes and is struggling in this economy'.

As long as Romney, or Obama, or Newt, or who the fuck ever, doesn't break any laws, I don't care HOW they shelter their income.

If you don't like the tax laws, elect someone who will change them. Don't whine about people who studied them, found the flaws, and used them.

For the record, I think the tax laws need to be simplified, and loopholes that allow tax shelters offshore need to be fixed.

I don't excuse unethical actions because they are technically legal. Not sure why you do.

Again, this shows a real problem with Romeny's personality. He destroys good paying jobs to make himself more money, then shelters it in the Cayman alongside the drug dealers and embezzlers, because he doesn't want to pay his fair share.

It shows a level of avarice that most people are going to find offensive.

Romney is a horrible candidate. And the GOP is rushing to get him, no matter what. It's an awful system. If all the other choices suck more, we need new choices.

following the law is unethical?

 

[Sallow]

And if a Democrat did this? you'd be equally up in arms?

Yeah I would be..

I personally found it amazing and disgusting that members of congress weren't subject to insider trading rules. That crosses party lines.

we're not talking about insider trading (which I agree with you on, btw). We're talking about a US citizen, taking full advantage of existing law, and sheltering income. No laws were broken, no 'evasion' took place (see my posted definition of evasion).

No laws were broken with the insider trading issue in congress either.

The members engaging in that practice were taking advantage of that.

 

[Conservative]

Why isn't it tax evasion? Oh yeah... because some(probably Conservative) legislation made it "legal".

you apparently do not understand the term 'tax evasion'.

Tax Evasion legal definition of Tax Evasion. Tax Evasion synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

The U.S. Supreme Court, in Spies v. United States, 317 U.S. 492, 63 S. Ct. 364, 87 L. Ed. 418 (1943), ruled that an Overt Act is necessary to give rise to the crime of Income Tax evasion. Therefore, the government must show that the taxpayer attempted to evade the tax rather than passively neglected to file a return, which could be prosecuted under section 7203 as a misdemeanor. A person who has evaded taxes over the course of several years may be charged with multiple counts for each year taxes were allegedly evaded.

According to the Supreme Court in Sansone v. United States, 380 U.S. 343, 85 S. Ct. 1004, 13 L. Ed. 2d 882 (1965), a conviction under section 7201 requires proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt as to each of three elements: the existence of a tax deficiency, willfulness in an attempted evasion of tax, and an affirmative act constituting an evasion or attempted evasion of the tax.

An affirmative act is anything done to mislead the government or conceal funds to avoid payment of an admitted and accurate deficiency. Affirmative behavior can take two forms: the evasion of assessment and the evasion of payment. Affirmative acts of evasion include evading taxes by placing assets in another's name, dealing in cash, and having receipts or debts paid through and in the name of another person. Merely failing to pay assessed tax, without more, does not constitute tax evasion.

The keeping of a double set of books or the making of false invoices or documents can be proof of tax evasion. In some cases the mailing of a false return may constitute the overt act required under section 7201.

NONE of that applies to Romney. If you think it does, then prove it.

Hey..if it's fine..then there should be no problem with reporting on it.

It would be just like if he went to Vegas and hired prostitutes. It's not illegal.

If he was hiding it, we'd not know about it. We do, therefore he is not hiding it.

As for reporting it, I assume you mean reporting it on his taxes every year? If so, then you misunderstand the 'legal' use of tax shelters.

 

[L.K.Eder]

I am an 'average working folk who play by the rules and pay their taxes and is struggling in this economy'.

As long as Romney, or Obama, or Newt, or who the fuck ever, doesn't break any laws, I don't care HOW they shelter their income.

If you don't like the tax laws, elect someone who will change them. Don't whine about people who studied them, found the flaws, and used them.

For the record, I think the tax laws need to be simplified, and loopholes that allow tax shelters offshore need to be fixed.

I don't excuse unethical actions because they are technically legal. Not sure why you do.

Again, this shows a real problem with Romeny's personality. He destroys good paying jobs to make himself more money, then shelters it in the Cayman alongside the drug dealers and embezzlers, because he doesn't want to pay his fair share.

It shows a level of avarice that most people are going to find offensive.

Romney is a horrible candidate. And the GOP is rushing to get him, no matter what. It's an awful system. If all the other choices suck more, we need new choices.

following the law is unethical?

depends on the law, simple one.

 

[Steelplate]

I am an 'average working folk who play by the rules and pay their taxes and is struggling in this economy'.

As long as Romney, or Obama, or Newt, or who the fuck ever, doesn't break any laws, I don't care HOW they shelter their income.

If you don't like the tax laws, elect someone who will change them. Don't whine about people who studied them, found the flaws, and used them.

For the record, I think the tax laws need to be simplified, and loopholes that allow tax shelters offshore need to be fixed.

Why isn't it tax evasion? Oh yeah... because some(probably Conservative) legislation made it "legal".

And if a Democrat did this? you'd be equally up in arms?

Absolutely... and I have no doubt that there are wealthy Dems who do this.

 

[Sallow]

I am an 'average working folk who play by the rules and pay their taxes and is struggling in this economy'.

As long as Romney, or Obama, or Newt, or who the fuck ever, doesn't break any laws, I don't care HOW they shelter their income.

If you don't like the tax laws, elect someone who will change them. Don't whine about people who studied them, found the flaws, and used them.

For the record, I think the tax laws need to be simplified, and loopholes that allow tax shelters offshore need to be fixed.

I don't excuse unethical actions because they are technically legal. Not sure why you do.

Again, this shows a real problem with Romeny's personality. He destroys good paying jobs to make himself more money, then shelters it in the Cayman alongside the drug dealers and embezzlers, because he doesn't want to pay his fair share.

It shows a level of avarice that most people are going to find offensive.

Romney is a horrible candidate. And the GOP is rushing to get him, no matter what. It's an awful system. If all the other choices suck more, we need new choices.

following the law is unethical?

Personally?

I believe that this practice is wrong. Along with about a million other things the law doesn't currently cover.

 

[Conservative]

Yeah I would be..

I personally found it amazing and disgusting that members of congress weren't subject to insider trading rules. That crosses party lines.

we're not talking about insider trading (which I agree with you on, btw). We're talking about a US citizen, taking full advantage of existing law, and sheltering income. No laws were broken, no 'evasion' took place (see my posted definition of evasion).

No laws were broken with the insider trading issue in congress either.

The members engaging in that practice were taking advantage of that.

I'm not so sure of that...
Insider Trading

"Insider trading" is a term that most investors have heard and usually associate with illegal conduct. But the term actually includes both legal and illegal conduct. The legal version is when corporate insiders—officers, directors, and employees—buy and sell stock in their own companies. When corporate insiders trade in their own securities, they must report their trades to the SEC. For more information about this type of insider trading and the reports insiders must file, please read "Forms 3, 4, 5" in our Fast Answers databank.

Illegal insider trading refers generally to buying or selling a security, in breach of a fiduciary duty or other relationship of trust and confidence, while in possession of material, nonpublic information about the security. Insider trading violations may also include "tipping" such information, securities trading by the person "tipped," and securities trading by those who misappropriate such information.

Doesn't the 2nd one describe the Congress issues?

 

[Conservative]

I don't excuse unethical actions because they are technically legal. Not sure why you do.

Again, this shows a real problem with Romeny's personality. He destroys good paying jobs to make himself more money, then shelters it in the Cayman alongside the drug dealers and embezzlers, because he doesn't want to pay his fair share.

It shows a level of avarice that most people are going to find offensive.

Romney is a horrible candidate. And the GOP is rushing to get him, no matter what. It's an awful system. If all the other choices suck more, we need new choices.

following the law is unethical?

Personally?

I believe that this practice is wrong. Along with about a million other things the law doesn't currently cover.

perfectly valid answer.

 

[Sallow]

you apparently do not understand the term 'tax evasion'.

Tax Evasion legal definition of Tax Evasion. Tax Evasion synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.



NONE of that applies to Romney. If you think it does, then prove it.

Hey..if it's fine..then there should be no problem with reporting on it.

It would be just like if he went to Vegas and hired prostitutes. It's not illegal.

If he was hiding it, we'd not know about it. We do, therefore he is not hiding it.

As for reporting it, I assume you mean reporting it on his taxes every year? If so, then you misunderstand the 'legal' use of tax shelters.

No..I mean the press reporting on it.

 

[Steelplate]

Why isn't it tax evasion? Oh yeah... because some(probably Conservative) legislation made it "legal".

you apparently do not understand the term 'tax evasion'.

Tax Evasion legal definition of Tax Evasion. Tax Evasion synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

The U.S. Supreme Court, in Spies v. United States, 317 U.S. 492, 63 S. Ct. 364, 87 L. Ed. 418 (1943), ruled that an Overt Act is necessary to give rise to the crime of Income Tax evasion. Therefore, the government must show that the taxpayer attempted to evade the tax rather than passively neglected to file a return, which could be prosecuted under section 7203 as a misdemeanor. A person who has evaded taxes over the course of several years may be charged with multiple counts for each year taxes were allegedly evaded.

According to the Supreme Court in Sansone v. United States, 380 U.S. 343, 85 S. Ct. 1004, 13 L. Ed. 2d 882 (1965), a conviction under section 7201 requires proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt as to each of three elements: the existence of a tax deficiency, willfulness in an attempted evasion of tax, and an affirmative act constituting an evasion or attempted evasion of the tax.

An affirmative act is anything done to mislead the government or conceal funds to avoid payment of an admitted and accurate deficiency. Affirmative behavior can take two forms: the evasion of assessment and the evasion of payment. Affirmative acts of evasion include evading taxes by placing assets in another's name, dealing in cash, and having receipts or debts paid through and in the name of another person. Merely failing to pay assessed tax, without more, does not constitute tax evasion.

The keeping of a double set of books or the making of false invoices or documents can be proof of tax evasion. In some cases the mailing of a false return may constitute the overt act required under section 7201.

NONE of that applies to Romney. If you think it does, then prove it.

Hey..if it's fine..then there should be no problem with reporting on it.

It would be just like if he went to Vegas and hired prostitutes. It's not illegal.

Actually Sallow... Prostitution in Vegas is illegal....It's illegal in any city with a population of 50K or more.... but I get your point.

 

[Conservative]

I don't excuse unethical actions because they are technically legal. Not sure why you do.

Again, this shows a real problem with Romeny's personality. He destroys good paying jobs to make himself more money, then shelters it in the Cayman alongside the drug dealers and embezzlers, because he doesn't want to pay his fair share.

It shows a level of avarice that most people are going to find offensive.

Romney is a horrible candidate. And the GOP is rushing to get him, no matter what. It's an awful system. If all the other choices suck more, we need new choices.

following the law is unethical?

depends on the law, simple one.

so, rather than work to change laws we don't agree with, we should simply not follow them, dim one?

 

[L.K.Eder]

following the law is unethical?

depends on the law, simple one.

so, rather than work to change laws we don't agree with, we should simply not follow them, dim one?

so, no.

learn to ask less inane questions.

 

[Sallow]

we're not talking about insider trading (which I agree with you on, btw). We're talking about a US citizen, taking full advantage of existing law, and sheltering income. No laws were broken, no 'evasion' took place (see my posted definition of evasion).

No laws were broken with the insider trading issue in congress either.

The members engaging in that practice were taking advantage of that.

I'm not so sure of that...
Insider Trading

"Insider trading" is a term that most investors have heard and usually associate with illegal conduct. But the term actually includes both legal and illegal conduct. The legal version is when corporate insiders—officers, directors, and employees—buy and sell stock in their own companies. When corporate insiders trade in their own securities, they must report their trades to the SEC. For more information about this type of insider trading and the reports insiders must file, please read "Forms 3, 4, 5" in our Fast Answers databank.

Illegal insider trading refers generally to buying or selling a security, in breach of a fiduciary duty or other relationship of trust and confidence, while in possession of material, nonpublic information about the security. Insider trading violations may also include "tipping" such information, securities trading by the person "tipped," and securities trading by those who misappropriate such information.

Doesn't the 2nd one describe the Congress issues?

No.

Congress members are exempt. Which is absolutely unacceptable in my view.

 

[Sallow]

you apparently do not understand the term 'tax evasion'.

Tax Evasion legal definition of Tax Evasion. Tax Evasion synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.



NONE of that applies to Romney. If you think it does, then prove it.

Hey..if it's fine..then there should be no problem with reporting on it.

It would be just like if he went to Vegas and hired prostitutes. It's not illegal.

Actually Sallow... Prostitution in Vegas is illegal....It's illegal in any city with a population of 50K or more.... but I get your point.

No more "ranches"?

 

[Conservative]

No laws were broken with the insider trading issue in congress either.

The members engaging in that practice were taking advantage of that.

I'm not so sure of that...
Insider Trading

"Insider trading" is a term that most investors have heard and usually associate with illegal conduct. But the term actually includes both legal and illegal conduct. The legal version is when corporate insiders—officers, directors, and employees—buy and sell stock in their own companies. When corporate insiders trade in their own securities, they must report their trades to the SEC. For more information about this type of insider trading and the reports insiders must file, please read "Forms 3, 4, 5" in our Fast Answers databank.

Illegal insider trading refers generally to buying or selling a security, in breach of a fiduciary duty or other relationship of trust and confidence, while in possession of material, nonpublic information about the security. Insider trading violations may also include "tipping" such information, securities trading by the person "tipped," and securities trading by those who misappropriate such information.

Doesn't the 2nd one describe the Congress issues?

No.

Congress members are exempt. Which is absolutely unacceptable in my view.

I understand the exemption, and that is the problem. it 'would' apply, if they were not exempt... which is why I agreed with you

Note I said 'describe the Congress issue', not 'apply to Congress'.