Romney's Bain Lie

[Sallow]

Nope Toro that is what compassionate humans do.

we dont let the sociopaths run the world

Yet you vote for a guy that is conducting active military campaigns in more countries than anyone on the planet since WWII.

Bullshit.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You're a Market guy, Toro.

You think Duncan Niederauer is worth 10 million a year? I been at meetings with the guy..worked with him. Nice guy..but I don't see it.

The NYSE lost market share..and the stock took a nose dive.

And still..he gets the same salary. I mean..he didn't start the company..and made that the first year he was there. And while I was there..he didn't get a pay cut.

So? Whatta think?

And his story isn't typical.

I think there is a problem with corporate governance in this country. I do think CEOs and managements are generally not worth what they are paid. There is no correlation between performance and compensation. I think much of that is due to the agency problem of management profiting at the expense of shareholders.

However, I have no qualms whatsoever with whatever owners make. Owners can make as much as they want.

Totally agree with your first point.

Second point? Not so much. I'd be in favor of that if several things happened:

1. Removal of patents in perpetutity.
2. Removal of licensing laws.
3. Government stays out of labor negotiations.
4. Owners provide their own services and security.
5. Owner comes up with the idea or invention without drawing upon the government.
6. Owner must never enter into any contracts with the government.

Then?

They can pay themselves what they want.

Not that I disagree with some of your points, but lets actually address them rationally.

1. Patents are ridiculous at the moment, but they are hardly in perpetuity, they only last 20 years, just like they do in all WTO countries. Copyrights, on the other hand, last forever, mostly because Disney pays the Democrats and the Republicans a lot of money to keep Mickey Mouse.
2. You don't think an inventor should be able to license his product if he doesn't have the resources to bring it ti market himself? How will that make things better?
3. Couldn't agree with you more. We need to eliminate the entire Department of Labor ASAP. We can start with the NRLB.
4. Umm, they do. No one with money relies on the police department, they only show up after a crime, not before.
5. The constitution specifically charges the federal government with promoting the arts and sciences by granting exclusive right to their writings and discoveries. Instead of cutting of all government funds going toward research we should just change the law so that all discoveries or works of art developed with government funds to either belong to the government or, alternatively, to license them under a new licensing structure that essentially makes them public domain.
6. You don't want the government to hire people to build roads? That doesn't even make sense.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I'm sure this has already been posted, but ...

Do Bain SEC documents suggest Mitt Romney is a criminal? - The Washington Post

EDIT - to clarify

Fortune magazine on Thursday reported that it had obtained the offering documents for Bain Capital funds circulating in 2000 and 2001. None of the documents show that Romney was listed as being among the “key investment professionals” who would manage the money. As Fortune put it, “the contemporaneous Bain documents show that Romney was indeed telling the truth about no longer having operational input at Bain — which, one should note, is different from no longer having legal or financial ties to the firm.”

A Key Man term in the documentation of an Offering Memorandum identifies those who are actively involved in the running of the funds and the firm. Romney wasn't identified as a key man. It means he wasn't actively involved.

Sorry lefties.

I don't think he was acting criminally. However, he is now acting criminally stupid. And he did change his story so it would look like he had nothing to do with Bain's outsourcing/offshoring on the one hand while on the other hand claiming he didn't retire from Bain so he could run for Governor without looking like he no longer had MA residency.

Funny, he never argued that his non retirement from Bain allowed him to declare residency in Massachusetts, what he argued was that his active participation on the board of Staples qualified him as a resident. Stop making up facts to fit your conspiracy and deal with the real world.

 

[Sallow]

I think there is a problem with corporate governance in this country. I do think CEOs and managements are generally not worth what they are paid. There is no correlation between performance and compensation. I think much of that is due to the agency problem of management profiting at the expense of shareholders.

However, I have no qualms whatsoever with whatever owners make. Owners can make as much as they want.

Totally agree with your first point.

Second point? Not so much. I'd be in favor of that if several things happened:

1. Removal of patents in perpetutity.
2. Removal of licensing laws.
3. Government stays out of labor negotiations.
4. Owners provide their own services and security.
5. Owner comes up with the idea or invention without drawing upon the government.
6. Owner must never enter into any contracts with the government.

Then?

They can pay themselves what they want.

Not that I disagree with some of your points, but lets actually address them rationally.

1. Patents are ridiculous at the moment, but they are hardly in perpetuity, they only last 20 years, just like they do in all WTO countries. Copyrights, on the other hand, last forever, mostly because Disney pays the Democrats and the Republicans a lot of money to keep Mickey Mouse.
2. You don't think an inventor should be able to license his product if he doesn't have the resources to bring it ti market himself? How will that make things better?
3. Couldn't agree with you more. We need to eliminate the entire Department of Labor ASAP. We can start with the NRLB.
4. Umm, they do. No one with money relies on the police department, they only show up after a crime, not before.
5. The constitution specifically charges the federal government with promoting the arts and sciences by granting exclusive right to their writings and discoveries. Instead of cutting of all government funds going toward research we should just change the law so that all discoveries or works of art developed with government funds to either belong to the government or, alternatively, to license them under a new licensing structure that essentially makes them public domain.
6. You don't want the government to hire people to build roads? That doesn't even make sense.

You're not getting it.

You'd do well to travel..to maybe get a sense of why many enterpreneurs move out of third world countries to set up shop in the US or Europe.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I think there is a problem with corporate governance in this country. I do think CEOs and managements are generally not worth what they are paid. There is no correlation between performance and compensation. I think much of that is due to the agency problem of management profiting at the expense of shareholders.

However, I have no qualms whatsoever with whatever owners make. Owners can make as much as they want.

Totally agree with your first point.

Second point? Not so much. I'd be in favor of that if several things happened:

1. Removal of patents in perpetutity.
2. Removal of licensing laws.
3. Government stays out of labor negotiations.
4. Owners provide their own services and security.
5. Owner comes up with the idea or invention without drawing upon the government.
6. Owner must never enter into any contracts with the government.

Then?

They can pay themselves what they want.

Oh..and:

7. No more citizen's united. Money shouldn't buy power.

Money does not buy power, if it did Microsoft would never have been prosecuted as a monopoly.

 

[Trajan]

Your John King thing is a broken record already.

Romney had a direct financial interest in outsourcing.

EXCLUSIVE: Romney Invested Millions in Chinese Firm That Profited on US Outsourcing | Mother Jones



And nothing he's proposing to do..address the tide of outsourcing.

What he's promising to do..is the punish China for currency manipulation. Something Obama's been involving in doing for quite some time. And Obama proposes to change to tax code to punish companies for outsourcing.

Something Romney hasn't and won't talk about.

so when do you address obamas outsourcing? ever?:rolleyes:


and please list the jobs Romney outsourced, and please note there is a difference when Bain’s invests in co's over seas that create jobs (offshore jobs) that support exports from the US, opposed to shuttering jobs here and shipping those jobs overseas.......

You guys should really learn the difference between investing with a foreign company to move jobs back to the US..and investing with a foreign company that is designed to move jobs out of the US.

Simple difference..in vs. out.

And read the article Trajan..

You expect me to chew your food too?

oh so now you want to make an in-sourcing argument, shitty smoke screen bubba, thats not what we are addressing. I knew you would not address what I said, you are as dense as you post apparently.

no, but you are welcome to continue to chew the grass like the slobbering

you are.
being a mindless drone must be a full time job

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Of course you think its over-rated. You're clueless. When you walk around in a Fog of Hate, you are unable to see clearly. Confirmation bias isn't a good thing.

Bain's early funds were eye-popping. Gross returns on some of the earlier funds were as high as triple-digits. And no, it wasn't "because of Clinton" or "because it was shooting fish in a barrel." Their performance was why Bain charged amongst the highest fees in the industry. They did it by funding fast growing businesses. This is well known in the industry. They ventured into buyouts - the investments you always whine and bitch about - once they had become larger. But Romney made his name funding young, fast growing companies.

Romney made his name using his connections and Daddy's wealth to get into sweetheart deals most of us couldn't get into, and if he fucked over hundreds of working people, well, he didn't have a problem with that.

After all, they were only "gentiles". (What Mormons call the rest of us.)

Again, it isn't "hatred of rich people", it's doing what is right and fair and moral. As much as I knock some of the craziness of the Nuns and Priests who educated me, they did have the good sense to teach me that greed was a sin, and rather venal one.

Romney donated his inheritance from his father to Brigham Young University. How is that for doing what is right and fair and moral you ignorant uninformed pissant.

Don't confuse him with facts he is going to ignore anyway.

 

[hortysir]

Oh..and:

7. No more citizen's united. Money shouldn't buy power.

So you're all for overturning SCOTUS decisions YOU disagree with....

Well yeah..of course.

I never agreed with Dred Scott v. Sandford..

You?

I remember Judge Dredd.
Was Sandford Rob Schneider's character?

 

[Sallow]

Totally agree with your first point.

Second point? Not so much. I'd be in favor of that if several things happened:

1. Removal of patents in perpetutity.
2. Removal of licensing laws.
3. Government stays out of labor negotiations.
4. Owners provide their own services and security.
5. Owner comes up with the idea or invention without drawing upon the government.
6. Owner must never enter into any contracts with the government.

Then?

They can pay themselves what they want.

Oh..and:

7. No more citizen's united. Money shouldn't buy power.

Money does not buy power, if it did Microsoft would never have been prosecuted as a monopoly.

Microsoft got most of the decisions against it reversed during the Bush administration.

Please..

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You're a Market guy, Toro.

You think Duncan Niederauer is worth 10 million a year? I been at meetings with the guy..worked with him. Nice guy..but I don't see it.

The NYSE lost market share..and the stock took a nose dive.

And still..he gets the same salary. I mean..he didn't start the company..and made that the first year he was there. And while I was there..he didn't get a pay cut.

So? Whatta think?

And his story isn't typical.

Is Drew Brees worth $40 million a year? The Saints think he is, which is all that matters. If he tanks they are the ones that are going to pay, not you.

Oh really?

Who paid for the building of the Superdome? How about the upkeep?

Sports is one of the most heavily subsidized industries in this nation.

You are talking to a guy who thinks the government shouldn't be involved in lots of things that you think they should, you aren't going to trip me up by pointing out that Louisiana built the Superdome.

 

[Sallow]

So you're all for overturning SCOTUS decisions YOU disagree with....

Well yeah..of course.

I never agreed with Dred Scott v. Sandford..

You?

I remember Judge Dredd.
Was Sandford Rob Schneider's character?

I am the law!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PifvRiHVSCY]Dredd Exclusive Trailer Debut [HD] - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Nope Toro that is what compassionate humans do.

we dont let the sociopaths run the world

Yet you vote for a guy that is conducting active military campaigns in more countries than anyone on the planet since WWII.

Bullshit.

Wanna bet? Obama has military operations targeting terrorists in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia, Sudan, and a couple of other places I can't remember off the top of my head. Not to mention Libya.

 

[Trajan]

Oh..and:

7. No more citizen's united. Money shouldn't buy power.

Money does not buy power, if it did Microsoft would never have been prosecuted as a monopoly.

Microsoft got most of the decisions against it reversed during the Bush administration.

Please..

yea please...but wait, for a clueless hack, Europe is something we should aspire too so...


Microsoft hit with $1 billion fine in Europe antitrust case - Jun. 27, 2012

European Union Microsoft competition case - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Trajan]

Yet you vote for a guy that is conducting active military campaigns in more countries than anyone on the planet since WWII.

Bullshit.

Wanna bet? Obama has military operations targeting terrorists in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia, Sudan, and a couple of other places I can't remember off the top of my head. Not to mention Libya.

Philippines, Angola theres several more.

note; I don't disagree with many of these decisions, but sallows hypocrisy is evident...

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Totally agree with your first point.

Second point? Not so much. I'd be in favor of that if several things happened:

1. Removal of patents in perpetutity.
2. Removal of licensing laws.
3. Government stays out of labor negotiations.
4. Owners provide their own services and security.
5. Owner comes up with the idea or invention without drawing upon the government.
6. Owner must never enter into any contracts with the government.

Then?

They can pay themselves what they want.

Not that I disagree with some of your points, but lets actually address them rationally.

1. Patents are ridiculous at the moment, but they are hardly in perpetuity, they only last 20 years, just like they do in all WTO countries. Copyrights, on the other hand, last forever, mostly because Disney pays the Democrats and the Republicans a lot of money to keep Mickey Mouse.
2. You don't think an inventor should be able to license his product if he doesn't have the resources to bring it ti market himself? How will that make things better?
3. Couldn't agree with you more. We need to eliminate the entire Department of Labor ASAP. We can start with the NRLB.
4. Umm, they do. No one with money relies on the police department, they only show up after a crime, not before.
5. The constitution specifically charges the federal government with promoting the arts and sciences by granting exclusive right to their writings and discoveries. Instead of cutting of all government funds going toward research we should just change the law so that all discoveries or works of art developed with government funds to either belong to the government or, alternatively, to license them under a new licensing structure that essentially makes them public domain.
6. You don't want the government to hire people to build roads? That doesn't even make sense.

You're not getting it.

You'd do well to travel..to maybe get a sense of why many enterpreneurs move out of third world countries to set up shop in the US or Europe.

I don't get it? How is pointing out that entrepreneurs come to the US proof that we need to end patents? Patents are worldwide now, not just in the US.

 

[Sallow]

Yet you vote for a guy that is conducting active military campaigns in more countries than anyone on the planet since WWII.

Bullshit.

Wanna bet? Obama has military operations targeting terrorists in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia, Sudan, and a couple of other places I can't remember off the top of my head. Not to mention Libya.

These aren't declarations of war..and in fact, small covert operations.

And if you think this hasn't been ongoing since WWII..I've a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.

Cheap.

 

[Buford]

Obama should listen to a smart Democrat. Ed Rendell — Team Obama went “a little bit too far with the felony business” | Power Line

 

[Sallow]

Not that I disagree with some of your points, but lets actually address them rationally.

1. Patents are ridiculous at the moment, but they are hardly in perpetuity, they only last 20 years, just like they do in all WTO countries. Copyrights, on the other hand, last forever, mostly because Disney pays the Democrats and the Republicans a lot of money to keep Mickey Mouse.
2. You don't think an inventor should be able to license his product if he doesn't have the resources to bring it ti market himself? How will that make things better?
3. Couldn't agree with you more. We need to eliminate the entire Department of Labor ASAP. We can start with the NRLB.
4. Umm, they do. No one with money relies on the police department, they only show up after a crime, not before.
5. The constitution specifically charges the federal government with promoting the arts and sciences by granting exclusive right to their writings and discoveries. Instead of cutting of all government funds going toward research we should just change the law so that all discoveries or works of art developed with government funds to either belong to the government or, alternatively, to license them under a new licensing structure that essentially makes them public domain.
6. You don't want the government to hire people to build roads? That doesn't even make sense.

You're not getting it.

You'd do well to travel..to maybe get a sense of why many enterpreneurs move out of third world countries to set up shop in the US or Europe.

I don't get it? How is pointing out that entrepreneurs come to the US proof that we need to end patents? Patents are worldwide now, not just in the US.

Because the very things I pointed out in the post..are why businesses flourish.

That ain't cheap.

And what you guys are trying to do..is the bankrupt the very system that allows people to be successful.

Kind of like killing the goose that lays golden eggs..for a fine goose dinner.

 

[Sallow]

Obama should listen to a smart Democrat. Ed Rendell — Team Obama went “a little bit too far with the felony business” | Power Line

He absolutely should not.

When the other guy brings a gun to the game..you find yourself a rocket launcher.

 

[Chris]

The Bain story is just beginning....

Much more to come.

They haven't even looked at Sankaty yet.