Ron Paul: Crimea Secedes. So What?...

[georgephillip]

"Seven Ukrainian soldiers have been killed in an ambush in the eastern Donetsk region, reports say.

"A unit was attacked near the town of Kramatorsk by about 30 heavily-armed rebels, the defence ministry said. One rebel is also said to have died.

"Correspondents say this is the most serious loss of life for the government in its operation against separatists.

"Donetsk is one of two regions declared separate from Ukraine after referendums deemed illegal by Kiev, the US and EU.

"The defence ministry said an armoured personnel carrier carrying paratroopers was hit by a rocket-propelled grenade and exploded."

BBC News - Ukraine crisis: 'Eight killed' in ambush in east

Not rebels. Not Ukraine guys. Russian invaders. These guys.

The Wolves? Hundred: Putin?s Russian Musclemen in Eastern Ukraine - TIME

Wow.
Russian "invaders" in Russia's "near abroad"?
What excuse can you manufacture for the CIA and FBI?

"Citing unnamed German security sources, Bild am Sonntag said the CIA and FBI agents were helping Kiev end the rebellion in the east of Ukraine and set up a functioning security structure."

Dozens Of CIA, FBI Agents "Advising Ukraine Government", German Press Reports | Zero Hedge

 

[Camp]

"Seven Ukrainian soldiers have been killed in an ambush in the eastern Donetsk region, reports say.

"A unit was attacked near the town of Kramatorsk by about 30 heavily-armed rebels, the defence ministry said. One rebel is also said to have died.

"Correspondents say this is the most serious loss of life for the government in its operation against separatists.

"Donetsk is one of two regions declared separate from Ukraine after referendums deemed illegal by Kiev, the US and EU.

"The defence ministry said an armoured personnel carrier carrying paratroopers was hit by a rocket-propelled grenade and exploded."

BBC News - Ukraine crisis: 'Eight killed' in ambush in east

Not rebels. Not Ukraine guys. Russian invaders. These guys.

The Wolves? Hundred: Putin?s Russian Musclemen in Eastern Ukraine - TIME

Wow.
Russian "invaders" in Russia's "near abroad"?
What excuse can you manufacture for the CIA and FBI?

"Citing unnamed German security sources, Bild am Sonntag said the CIA and FBI agents were helping Kiev end the rebellion in the east of Ukraine and set up a functioning security structure."

Dozens Of CIA, FBI Agents "Advising Ukraine Government", German Press Reports | Zero Hedge

When the government of a country that is recognized by the world community of nations invites foreigners into it's country they are called and considered guest. When armed foreigners enter a country without permission and commit acts of violence they are called and considered invaders.

 

[paulitician]

American Taxpayers will be on the hook for $Billions over there so the Vice President and his spoiled son can get richer. It's a travesty. Americans need to better understand what these interventions are really about.

 

[slava]

It's a travesty. Americans need to better understand what these interventions are really about.

that's just how politics work you have to put up with it. We, ordinary people, can only occasionally elect political leaders every few years and HOPE FOR THE BETTER but do not have any real power over them. By and large, politicians are insensitive spendthrifts by definition. There have been probably just a few rare exeptions (like your president Lincoln who demolished slavery in America and was quite predictably assassinated or let's say Russian tzar Peter the great who formed the regular army and fleet and turned Russia into a major military power at the beginning of the 18 th century) in human history that just prove the rule - a citizen should take his destiny in his own hands if he/she really wants to amount to anything in this life. The obsessive reliance on a government or politicians' wisdom will lead nowhere.

American Taxpayers will be on the hook for $Billions over there so the Vice President and his spoiled son can get richer.

actually I' ve heard a few facts about your economy :
1) your housing market might collapse in several years.
2) The dollar has lost 90 percent of its purchasing power and is worth nothing actually. The dollar's intrinsic value is a few cents. If sombody somewhere who is not afraid of the sanctions of the usa teams up with other fastest growing economies and replaces the dollar...
3) Many average americans being hooked on the propaganda of wall street consider themselves hardcore speculators and will die poor.

you'd better solve your internal problems before rushing to other countries and teaching them how to build democracy nobody needs until it's not too late.

Russian "invaders" in Russia's "near abroad"?
What excuse can you manufacture for the CIA and FBI?

Nato shouldn't have tried moving into Ukraine but they did it anyway and got a bloody nose. For my money, it's not surprising at all. I, being a russian, let you guys in on a little though important secret - Russia is a very sensitive and proud country. Despite its many fragilities, it can stand up to Nato or the west. Not only do we have nukes to protect us from possible foreign aggression but cultural and historical ties with our neigbours. Nobody including the usa can cut them off and make the people in the east forget their past . The people in the east are now being killed just because they are fighting for their right to self determination while a pack of nationalists who've been recruted by Kiev to do all the dirty work for them are fighting for ethnically clean Ukraine. That's the diffrence between the east and the west and it's HUGE.

 

[slava]

All in all, I like your site. I see that you got many thoughtful people here. The usa is a great state but is being led by empty -headed nuts. I'm not sure if democracy your country is spreading really exists. There are two classes of people in any country: a wealthy rulling class MANIPULATING COMMON PEOPLE and plebs. WHAT'S DEMOCRACY?

 

[1776]

Shitstain....Russia is the one causing trouble, not the USA and NATO. Nobody was pushing for Ukraine in NATO that is a strawman created by Russia to create an excuse to mess with Ukraine's INTERNAL politics. Ukraine was looking to work with the EU and less with their slave master Russia, which pissed off Putin and his rich friends making money off Ukraine being their slave for decades.

You scumbags have no right to tell UKRAINE who can run THEIR country. Your criminal puppet got run out of Kyiv so your response was to steal Crimea from Ukraine, then try to steal eastern Ukraine through spies, criminals and special forces from Russia and other hired goons from other countries....yes we know about them, shitstain.

The separatist vote this week was bogus, it even had Russians in MOSCOW voting on the ballot.....I didn't realize Moscow was in eastern Ukraine. So do Americans in Alaska get to vote in the next Russia election to boot out Putin???

It's a travesty. Americans need to better understand what these interventions are really about.

that's just how politics work you have to put up with it. We, ordinary people, can only occasionally elect political leaders every few years and HOPE FOR THE BETTER but do not have any real power over them. By and large, politicians are insensitive spendthrifts by definition. There have been probably just a few rare exeptions (like your president Lincoln who demolished slavery in America and was quite predictably assassinated or let's say Russian tzar Peter the great who formed the regular army and fleet and turned Russia into a major military power at the beginning of the 18 th century) in human history that just prove the rule - a citizen should take his destiny in his own hands if he/she really wants to amount to anything in this life. The obsessive reliance on a government or politicians' wisdom will lead nowhere.

American Taxpayers will be on the hook for $Billions over there so the Vice President and his spoiled son can get richer.

actually I' ve heard a few facts about your economy :
1) your housing market might collapse in several years.
2) The dollar has lost 90 percent of its purchasing power and is worth nothing actually. The dollar's intrinsic value is a few cents. If sombody somewhere who is not afraid of the sanctions of the usa teams up with other fastest growing economies and replaces the dollar...
3) Many average americans being hooked on the propaganda of wall street consider themselves hardcore speculators and will die poor.

you'd better solve your internal problems before rushing to other countries and teaching them how to build democracy nobody needs until it's not too late.

Russian "invaders" in Russia's "near abroad"?
What excuse can you manufacture for the CIA and FBI?

Nato shouldn't have tried moving into Ukraine but they did it anyway and got a bloody nose. For my money, it's not surprising at all. I, being a russian, let you guys in on a little though important secret - Russia is a very sensitive and proud country. Despite its many fragilities, it can stand up to Nato or the west. Not only do we have nukes to protect us from possible foreign aggression but cultural and historical ties with our neigbours. Nobody including the usa can cut them off and make the people in the east forget their past . The people in the east are now being killed just because they are fighting for their right to self determination while a pack of nationalists who've been recruted by Kiev to do all the dirty work for them are fighting for ethnically clean Ukraine. That's the diffrence between the east and the west and it's HUGE.

 

[georgephillip]

Not rebels. Not Ukraine guys. Russian invaders. These guys.

The Wolves? Hundred: Putin?s Russian Musclemen in Eastern Ukraine - TIME

Wow.
Russian "invaders" in Russia's "near abroad"?
What excuse can you manufacture for the CIA and FBI?

"Citing unnamed German security sources, Bild am Sonntag said the CIA and FBI agents were helping Kiev end the rebellion in the east of Ukraine and set up a functioning security structure."

Dozens Of CIA, FBI Agents "Advising Ukraine Government", German Press Reports | Zero Hedge

When the government of a country that is recognized by the world community of nations invites foreigners into it's country they are called and considered guest. When armed foreigners enter a country without permission and commit acts of violence they are called and considered invaders.

When the government of a country that is known to have tried to overthrow more than 50 other governments since 1945 and has grossly interfered in the elections of 30 countries; bombed civilians in 30 countries; used chemical and biological weapons, and attempted to assassinate foreign leaders, the world community would be well advised to take anything it has to say about Ukraine with a grain of salt.

The Greatest Purveyor of Violence in the World is NOT Russia, is it?

CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

 

[Camp]

When the government of a country that is recognized by the world community of nations invites foreigners into it's country they are called and considered guest. When armed foreigners enter a country without permission and commit acts of violence they are called and considered invaders.

When the government of a country that is known to have tried to overthrow more than 50 other governments since 1945 and has grossly interfered in the elections of 30 countries; bombed civilians in 30 countries; used chemical and biological weapons, and attempted to assassinate foreign leaders, the world community would be well advised to take anything it has to say about Ukraine with a grain of salt.

The Greatest Purveyor of Violence in the World is NOT Russia, is it?

CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

Do we count the two dozen non-Russian ethnic or speaking "Republics" currently under complete and total Russian military control?
Anyhow, just 'cause you hate America and like to make shit up about us doesn't give any other nation the OK to invade another nation.

 

[georgephillip]

When the government of a country that is recognized by the world community of nations invites foreigners into it's country they are called and considered guest. When armed foreigners enter a country without permission and commit acts of violence they are called and considered invaders.

When the government of a country that is known to have tried to overthrow more than 50 other governments since 1945 and has grossly interfered in the elections of 30 countries; bombed civilians in 30 countries; used chemical and biological weapons, and attempted to assassinate foreign leaders, the world community would be well advised to take anything it has to say about Ukraine with a grain of salt.

The Greatest Purveyor of Violence in the World is NOT Russia, is it?

CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

Do we count the two dozen non-Russian ethnic or speaking "Republics" currently under complete and total Russian military control?
Anyhow, just 'cause you hate America and like to make shit up about us doesn't give any other nation the OK to invade another nation.

You mean like the US invaded and occupied Afghanistan and Iraq?
Russia isn't currently running secret wars in 124 countries, unlike the US.
Russian drones aren't killing civilians on the opposite side of the planet from Moscow.
Russia isn't surrounding the US with military bases and "missile defense" shields.
Russia doesn't have a thousand military bases outside its homeland.
There's no need to make up shit about the American Empire;
it's the biggest reason the specie and the planet are threatened with extinction.

 

[Camp]

When the government of a country that is known to have tried to overthrow more than 50 other governments since 1945 and has grossly interfered in the elections of 30 countries; bombed civilians in 30 countries; used chemical and biological weapons, and attempted to assassinate foreign leaders, the world community would be well advised to take anything it has to say about Ukraine with a grain of salt.

The Greatest Purveyor of Violence in the World is NOT Russia, is it?

CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

Do we count the two dozen non-Russian ethnic or speaking "Republics" currently under complete and total Russian military control?
Anyhow, just 'cause you hate America and like to make shit up about us doesn't give any other nation the OK to invade another nation.

You mean like the US invaded and occupied Afghanistan and Iraq?
Russia isn't currently running secret wars in 124 countries, unlike the US.
Russian drones aren't killing civilians on the opposite side of the planet from Moscow.
Russia isn't surrounding the US with military bases and "missile defense" shields.
Russia doesn't have a thousand military bases outside its homeland.
There's no need to make up shit about the American Empire;
it's the biggest reason the specie and the planet are threatened with extinction.

Well, you have a right to your opinions, fantasies, delusions, wishful thoughts and friends inside your head, but what does all that have to do with a bunch of dudes invading the country specific to this thread? Why do these fellas from outside the country get a pass on invading the country where my friends live? How come they are allowed to come to the country of my friends and try to kill them or enslave them?

 

[slava]

So seven million people who are afraid of nationalists are terrorists? Come on, guys. Only the stupid and mentally lazy will believe it. The USA has got more than 120 military bases around the world and is in the habit of butting in the internal affairs of other countries. They told you that people in the Crimea were voting at gun point. That's utter bullshit I was there and I know it. Now they are telling you that the east of the country is entirely controlled by terrorists if your loved ones were burnt alive or shot to death i guess you would assess the situation in the country differently but you are sitting in you cozy rooms watching us mainstream channels... Youn ve been fooled but not everyone understands it. Live in your bubble if you want sooner or later it will burst...

 

[slava]

a bunch of dudes invading the country specific to this thread?

omg, the usa has put out so many falsehoods to confuse the general public that even rational people seem to have been deluded into thinking that the usa is the peace bringer...

Btw I also know Arabic and guys believe me ordinary people there hate the usa. Sometimes they project their anger onto simple americans saying that you are responsible for the actions of your government after all it was you who elected them.

 

[gipper]

a bunch of dudes invading the country specific to this thread?

omg, the usa has put out so many falsehoods to confuse the general public that even rational people seem to have been deluded into thinking that the usa is the peace bringer...

Btw I also know Arabic and guys believe me ordinary people there hate the usa. Sometimes they project their anger onto simple americans saying that you are responsible for the actions of your government after all it was you who elected them.

Unfortunately our elections are meaningless, particularly when it comes to foreign policy.

 

[Camp]

So seven million people who are afraid of nationalists are terrorists? Come on, guys. Only the stupid and mentally lazy will believe it. The USA has got more than 120 military bases around the world and is in the habit of butting in the internal affairs of other countries. They told you that people in the Crimea were voting at gun point. That's utter bullshit I was there and I know it. Now they are telling you that the east of the country is entirely controlled by terrorists if your loved ones were burnt alive or shot to death i guess you would assess the situation in the country differently but you are sitting in you cozy rooms watching us mainstream channels... Youn ve been fooled but not everyone understands it. Live in your bubble if you want sooner or later it will burst...

Having pissing contest about what country uses more propaganda and marketing methods to fool it's population or which country is more guilty of using military might to obtain and maintain it's wealth and the wealth of it's power elite and rich only serves as a distraction to the issue at hand.
People can agree that there are serious problems that need to be fixed in Ukraine. Problems with democracy, discrimination against a segment of the citizenry, corrupt government officials, etc. The issue is not whether a neighboring nation has a right to attempt to influence and assist the efforts made by a portion of the citizenship to procure changes and adjustments and resolve issue's. There are internationally accepted methods of doing this. Massing troops on the border with the threat of a WWII style invasion and sending in special operation troops to assist armed members and ad hoc militia's advocating a segment and side of the of the citizenry is not an acceptable method to the world community.

 

[thanatos144]

See Liberals and Libertarians are the same...They hate the USA.

 

[slava]

The issue is not whether a neighboring nation has a right to attempt to influence and assist the efforts made by a portion of the citizenship to procure changes and adjustments and resolve issue's.

I am not justifying “ a neighboring country’s attempt” to lure a portion of the citizenship into taking sides or becoming a part of it. The western backed Ukrainian government is bulling the people into accepting their conditions without questioning their motives. Why can't seven million people have a say in this matter? You have to climb into their skin and walk around in it for awhile before being too judgmental. You can’t discuss anything if your opponent puts fingers in his ears and refuses to listen. America’s fingers have been stuck in ears for nearly two decades. Russia was promised to be treated with proper respect and not to be threatened by Nato’s expansion. But Nato has been moving eastward since 1994. Now Russia is almost encircled. If the USA establishes military bases on the Ukrainian territory the better part of our country will be completely unprotected. It will simply render our nuclear weapons useless.

Russia pulled its troops from the Ukrainian borders and encouraged the protesters to put off the referendum. But still your prominent politicians are screaming themselves into hysteria: “ Russia’s president is the devil himself. he’s going to conquer Europe and bring all the vanquished under the thumb. Putin is planning on reestablishing the soviet union etc…” It’s just laughable. Nothing could be farther from the truth. You country still hasn’t provided any evidence on Russia’s presence in the region but has falsely accused Putin of meddling into the country’s affaires on many occasions. You have no proof just big words. And while your representatives are giving eloquent speeches on democracy and how it’s critical to freedom of speech tens of innocent people are dying on the streets. America's political leaders should have disarmed the mobs of nationalists but they did nothing and now are contemptuously saying that they are not going to calm down their crazy allies while Russia is supposed to convince the people in the east to give up their guns and stop holding radical nationalists off. Don’t you think that it’s just too much to ask?

 

[georgephillip]

Do we count the two dozen non-Russian ethnic or speaking "Republics" currently under complete and total Russian military control?
Anyhow, just 'cause you hate America and like to make shit up about us doesn't give any other nation the OK to invade another nation.

You mean like the US invaded and occupied Afghanistan and Iraq?
Russia isn't currently running secret wars in 124 countries, unlike the US.
Russian drones aren't killing civilians on the opposite side of the planet from Moscow.
Russia isn't surrounding the US with military bases and "missile defense" shields.
Russia doesn't have a thousand military bases outside its homeland.
There's no need to make up shit about the American Empire;
it's the biggest reason the specie and the planet are threatened with extinction.

Well, you have a right to your opinions, fantasies, delusions, wishful thoughts and friends inside your head, but what does all that have to do with a bunch of dudes invading the country specific to this thread? Why do these fellas from outside the country get a pass on invading the country where my friends live? How come they are allowed to come to the country of my friends and try to kill them or enslave them?

If your imaginary friends risk enslavement by a hundred delusional Cossacks, why don't you remind them freedom ain't free, or, better yet, saddle up and ride to the rescue yourself?

Personally, I'm not sufficiently self-destructive to risk WWIII because your fantasy friends prefer western oligarchs to their domestic brand.

"Like the ruins of Iraq and Afghanistan, Ukraine has been turned into a CIA theme park – run by CIA director John Brennan in Kiev, with 'special units' from the CIA and FBI setting up a 'security structure' that oversees savage attacks on those who opposed the February coup.

"Watch the videos, read the eye-witness reports from the massacre in Odessa this month.

"Bussed fascist thugs burned the trade union headquarters, killing 41 people trapped inside.

"Watch the police standing by.

"A doctor described trying to rescue people, 'but I was stopped by pro-Ukrainian Nazi radicals. One of them pushed me away rudely, promising that soon me and other Jews of Odessa are going to meet the same fate … I wonder, why the whole world is keeping silent.'”

A World War is Beckoning » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

 

[georgephillip]

a bunch of dudes invading the country specific to this thread?

omg, the usa has put out so many falsehoods to confuse the general public that even rational people seem to have been deluded into thinking that the usa is the peace bringer...

Btw I also know Arabic and guys believe me ordinary people there hate the usa. Sometimes they project their anger onto simple americans saying that you are responsible for the actions of your government after all it was you who elected them.

Most Muslims who are not rich know the two biggest threats to world peace are the US and Israel, and it's shameful how desperate the US media is to conceal that fact from the US public:

"In the context of Israeli and US policymakers view of Iran shown in the (Wikileaks) cables, Chomsky said that the perspectives of the leadership stand in sharp contrast to the opinions of the populations they supposedly serve.

“'[US Secretary of State] Hillary Clinton and [Israeli Prime Minister] Benjamin Netanyahu surely know of the careful polls of Arab public opinion,' Chomsky said.

"Specifically, the scholar noted the Brookings Institute’s recent release of its annual poll on what Arabs think about Iran, the United States, and Israel.

“'The results are rather striking. They show that Arab opinion holds that the major threat in the region is Israel. That’s 80 percent. The second major threat is the United States. That’s 77 percent. Iran is listed as a threat by 10 percent. With regard to nuclear weapons rather remarkably, the majority — in fact 57 percent — say that it will have a positve effect on the region if Iran had nuclear weapons. These are not small numbers,” he said.

"Chomsky added, 'This may not be reported in the newspapers here. It is in England, but it is certainly familiar with the Israeli and US governments and to the ambassadors.'”

Leaked cables reveal America?s ?profound hatred of democracy,? Chomsky declares

 

[paulitician]

All this Bullshite just to help Globalist Elite assholes like Joe Biden and his spoiled kid get richer. Americans need to break free of the American Government/Media Complex and contemplate these interventions in a more thoughtful and neutral fashion. It's not about 'Freedom & Democracy.' It's about the money. American Taxpayers will now be forced to spend several $Billlion over there so Biden and others can get rich. It's just another sad scam.

 

[paulitician]

It's a travesty. Americans need to better understand what these interventions are really about.

that's just how politics work you have to put up with it. We, ordinary people, can only occasionally elect political leaders every few years and HOPE FOR THE BETTER but do not have any real power over them. By and large, politicians are insensitive spendthrifts by definition. There have been probably just a few rare exeptions (like your president Lincoln who demolished slavery in America and was quite predictably assassinated or let's say Russian tzar Peter the great who formed the regular army and fleet and turned Russia into a major military power at the beginning of the 18 th century) in human history that just prove the rule - a citizen should take his destiny in his own hands if he/she really wants to amount to anything in this life. The obsessive reliance on a government or politicians' wisdom will lead nowhere.

American Taxpayers will be on the hook for $Billions over there so the Vice President and his spoiled son can get richer.

actually I' ve heard a few facts about your economy :
1) your housing market might collapse in several years.
2) The dollar has lost 90 percent of its purchasing power and is worth nothing actually. The dollar's intrinsic value is a few cents. If sombody somewhere who is not afraid of the sanctions of the usa teams up with other fastest growing economies and replaces the dollar...
3) Many average americans being hooked on the propaganda of wall street consider themselves hardcore speculators and will die poor.

you'd better solve your internal problems before rushing to other countries and teaching them how to build democracy nobody needs until it's not too late.

Russian "invaders" in Russia's "near abroad"?
What excuse can you manufacture for the CIA and FBI?

Nato shouldn't have tried moving into Ukraine but they did it anyway and got a bloody nose. For my money, it's not surprising at all. I, being a russian, let you guys in on a little though important secret - Russia is a very sensitive and proud country. Despite its many fragilities, it can stand up to Nato or the west. Not only do we have nukes to protect us from possible foreign aggression but cultural and historical ties with our neigbours. Nobody including the usa can cut them off and make the people in the east forget their past . The people in the east are now being killed just because they are fighting for their right to self determination while a pack of nationalists who've been recruted by Kiev to do all the dirty work for them are fighting for ethnically clean Ukraine. That's the diffrence between the east and the west and it's HUGE.

I hear ya. It's not about Democracy. It's about Globalist Elite assholes like Biden and his kid getting rich. It's a real shame most Americans still don't get it.