Roosevelt, Stalin and The Elusive "Second Front"

[PoliticalChic]

You have been unable to deny any of the documented, linked, sourced, facts that I have provided.

You remain a lying imbecile....and many know it.

The country in 1933 was ready to hand FDR dictatorial powers, but he refused them. That is the fact of that matter,

well described here:

The Fireside Chat that Roosevelt Threw Away by Jonathan Alter

"The country in 1933 was ready to hand FDR dictatorial powers, but he refused them."
Utter nonsense.
He used them to shred the Constitution.

1. In 1933, Fascism was celebrating its eleventh year in power, in Italy, and the election of the National Socialists in Germany represented an unmitigated defeat for liberal democracy in Europe’s largest industrialized nation. Schivelbusch, Op.Cit. 2. At the beginning of the same month, FDR was inaugurated as President. And before Congress went into recess it granted powers to Roosevelt unprecedented in peacetime. From Congressional hearings, 1973: “Since March 9, 1933, the United States has been in a state of declared national emergency.” Freedomsite.net

You should have read the article I posted.

I just showed you that he did no such thing.

Doing away with the guidance of the Constitution makes him exactly what I suggested: a dictator.

 

[Camp]

We caught you in a lie, PC. You can't post any of the Professor's evidence that supports your OP, can you?

Have you read the book? The answer is clearly no.

Your affirmation, kid, meet it.

Read it or not, she distorts it and insults Shivelbusch with her distortion of his thesis.

"To compare" Shivelbusch stesses, "is not the same as to equate. America during Roosevelt's New Deal did not become a one party state; it had no secret police; the constitution remained in force, and there were no concentration camps; the New Deal preserved the institutions of the liberal-democrat system that National Socialism abolished." Shivelbusch Three New Deals Reason Magazine Oct 2007

 

[NYcarbineer]

You have been unable to deny any of the documented, linked, sourced, facts that I have provided.

You remain a lying imbecile....and many know it.

The country in 1933 was ready to hand FDR dictatorial powers, but he refused them. That is the fact of that matter,

well described here:

The Fireside Chat that Roosevelt Threw Away by Jonathan Alter

"The country in 1933 was ready to hand FDR dictatorial powers, but he refused them."
Utter nonsense.
He used them to shred the Constitution.

1. In 1933, Fascism was celebrating its eleventh year in power, in Italy, and the election of the National Socialists in Germany represented an unmitigated defeat for liberal democracy in Europe’s largest industrialized nation. Schivelbusch, Op.Cit. 2. At the beginning of the same month, FDR was inaugurated as President. And before Congress went into recess it granted powers to Roosevelt unprecedented in peacetime. From Congressional hearings, 1973: “Since March 9, 1933, the United States has been in a state of declared national emergency.” Freedomsite.net

You should have read the article I posted.

I just showed you that he did no such thing.

Doing away with the guidance of the Constitution makes him exactly what I suggested: a dictator.

'So panicked were the members of American's economic elite about the banking crisis that on FDR's first day in office more than a dozen of them--prominent bankers, congressional committee chairmen, members of the Federal Reserve Board, and the top Treasury officials of both administrations--met and seemed to emerge with a consensus that Roosevelt should assume dictatorial control. That afternoon Adolph Miller, a member of the Federal Reserve, suggested a single law that would put "the whole powers of the government in the hands of the President." He argued that "This is a war. Don't bother with the details. It isn't possible to formulate a plan of legislation." Fed Chairman Eugene Meyer agreed; FDR's Treasury Secretary William Woodin revealed that the idea had already carried farther than they knew. The governors of many of the 48 states were coming to Washington the next day, and Woodin told the group confidentially that a committee of them was set to endorse the idea of the president assuming full wartime powers.'

Is any of that untrue?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Once again, PC fails basic principles of scholarship.

To repeat from above:
Read it or not, she distorts it and insults Shivelbusch with her distortion of his thesis.

"To compare" Shivelbusch stesses, "is not the same as to equate. America during Roosevelt's New Deal did not become a one party state; it had no secret police;the constitution remained in force, and there were no concentration camps; the New Deal preserved the institutions of the liberal-democrat system that National Socialism abolished." Shivelbusch Three New Deals Reason Magazine Oct 2007

 

[PoliticalChic]

We caught you in a lie, PC. You can't post any of the Professor's evidence that supports your OP, can you?

Have you read the book? The answer is clearly no.

Your affirmation, kid, meet it.

Read it or not, she distorts it and insults Shivelbusch with her distortion of his thesis.

"To compare" Shivelbusch stesses, "is not the same as to equate. America during Roosevelt's New Deal did not become a one party state; it had no secret police;the New Deal preserved the institutions of the liberal-democrat system that National Socialism abolished." Shivelbusch Three New Deals Reason Magazine Oct 2007

1. I have read and studied same....and quote it exactly as it was written.

The dirt-bag whose post you include pretended he read it.


2. ".... the emergence of a new type of state: bolstered by mass propaganda, led by a charismatic figure, and projecting stability and power. He uncovers stunning similarities among the three regimes: the symbolic importance of gigantic public works programs like the TVA dams and the German autobahn, which not only put people back to work but embodied the state's authority; the seductive persuasiveness of Roosevelt's fireside chats and Mussolini's radio talks; the vogue for monumental architecture stamped on Washington, as on Berlin; and the omnipresent banners enlisting citizens as loyal followers of the state."
Three New Deals Reflections on Roosevelt s America Mussolini s Italy and Hitler s Germany 1933-1939 by Wolfgang Schivelbusch Reviews Discussion Bookclubs Lists


"...stunning similarities among the three regimes:" that would be Roosevelt, Mussolini, and Hitler.



3. At least two of the claims in your link are clearly false:
"...the constitution remained in force, and there were no concentration camps;..."

As it the pattern, you have been soundly thrashed.
Don't ever change.

 

[JakeStarkey]

PC, I believe you had one of your minions research that for you.

Similarities? There were similarities between the US, the UK, France, USSR, Germany, Italy, and so on.

They were nation states fighting the Great Depression.

One dissimilarity among Germany and the USSR and the USA was that one was a left wing communist dictatorship and the other a right wing dictatorship and America was a functioning constitutional democracy. Another is that the USA still functions as such, Russia is a strong man state, and Germany has rejoined the respectable nations. Another is that Germany and USSR killed millions and millions of its own citizens.

Your suggestion that the USA should have continue to purse a course of isolation is (1) impracticable and (2) immoral.

 

[PoliticalChic]

You have been unable to deny any of the documented, linked, sourced, facts that I have provided.

You remain a lying imbecile....and many know it.

The country in 1933 was ready to hand FDR dictatorial powers, but he refused them. That is the fact of that matter,

well described here:

The Fireside Chat that Roosevelt Threw Away by Jonathan Alter

"The country in 1933 was ready to hand FDR dictatorial powers, but he refused them."
Utter nonsense.
He used them to shred the Constitution.

1. In 1933, Fascism was celebrating its eleventh year in power, in Italy, and the election of the National Socialists in Germany represented an unmitigated defeat for liberal democracy in Europe’s largest industrialized nation. Schivelbusch, Op.Cit. 2. At the beginning of the same month, FDR was inaugurated as President. And before Congress went into recess it granted powers to Roosevelt unprecedented in peacetime. From Congressional hearings, 1973: “Since March 9, 1933, the United States has been in a state of declared national emergency.” Freedomsite.net

You should have read the article I posted.

I just showed you that he did no such thing.

Doing away with the guidance of the Constitution makes him exactly what I suggested: a dictator.

'So panicked were the members of American's economic elite about the banking crisis that on FDR's first day in office more than a dozen of them--prominent bankers, congressional committee chairmen, members of the Federal Reserve Board, and the top Treasury officials of both administrations--met and seemed to emerge with a consensus that Roosevelt should assume dictatorial control. That afternoon Adolph Miller, a member of the Federal Reserve, suggested a single law that would put "the whole powers of the government in the hands of the President." He argued that "This is a war. Don't bother with the details. It isn't possible to formulate a plan of legislation." Fed Chairman Eugene Meyer agreed; FDR's Treasury Secretary William Woodin revealed that the idea had already carried farther than they knew. The governors of many of the 48 states were coming to Washington the next day, and Woodin told the group confidentially that a committee of them was set to endorse the idea of the president assuming full wartime powers.'

Is any of that untrue?

You actually quote a Rooseveltian: "This is a war. Don't bother with the details. It isn't possible to formulate a plan of legislation."


Once again you have inadvertently reinforced the point that Franklin Roosevelt and Mussolini and Hitler ran similar operations.

Considering the recent revelations about the dirt-bag liar, Jakal, it would be remiss of me not to quote Wolfgang Schivelbusch.....

1. The use of metaphors based on the military represent another link between the three systems. For Fascism and National Socialism war was an act of creation in the construction of a national narrative. For example, WWI created the need for authoritarian governance, as it represented the death of liberal democracy. The war instilled a solidarity among its soldiers, and heroic, messianic movements incorporated this inspiration. Politics was warfare.
2. Features of these movements reflecting the war experience include the ‘general,’ or strong leader, the uniforms, the ‘storm troopers,’ a sense that life-and-death struggle rather than mannered debate, and the word ‘battle’ for every major economic enterprise. Merchants had to be replaced with warriors!
   1. Even after the Mussolini and Hitler regimes controlled their governments, war mythology continued to inform the changes from liberal-parliamentary state into an autocracy closely patterned on the military.
3. But bellicose metaphors are not only found among the Fascists! In his inaugural address, 1933, Roosevelt blamed the ‘money changers’ for the economic crisis. Beyond economic and social steps against the Depression, Roosevelt had to declare war on it, ‘else how could he demand the sacrifices, “the stern performance of duty by old and young alike” that he would propose? Part of his address:
   1. He would ask Congress for “broad Executive power to wage a war against the emergency, as great as the power that would be given to me if we were in fact invaded by a foreign foe” and be read “to submit our lives and our property to such discipline,…” with “a unity of duty hitherto evoked only in times of armed strife.”

4. Thus he speaks: “…if we are to go forward we must move as a trained and loyal army willing to sacrifice for the good of Bøê Coêine, because without such discipline, no progress is made, no leadership becomes effective. We are, I know, ready and willing to submit our lives and property to such discipline because it makes possibly a leadership which aims at a larger good. This I propose to offer, pledging that the larger purposes will hind upon us all as a sacred obligation with a unity of duty hitherto evoked only in time of armed strife. With this pledge taken, I assume unhesitatingly the leadership of this great army of our people, dedicated to a disciplined attack upon our common problems.” FDR s 1933 Inaugural Address WyzAnt Resources

 

[Camp]

3. At least two of the claims in your link are clearly false:
"...the constitution remained in force, and there were no concentration camps;..."
.

This is one of the reasons your critics criticize you and accuse you of cherry picking. Now you are not only cherry picking your sources quotes, you are cherry picking the quotes themselves. Shivelbusch's thesis is founded on the similarities of economic policies between Hitler, Mussolini and FDR, thus the title of the book "Three New Deals". You distort by insisting his thesis relates to FDR's morality and intentions, suggesting he had the morality of Mussolini and Hitler. That is a total distortion of Shivelbusch's thesis. When proof is shown of your distortion, you have decided to accuse Shivelbusch of making false claims when he shows the differences between FDR and Mussolini/Hitler and fascism. When your source disagrees with your distortion they become liars, but when you cherry pick, distort and take their quotes out of context they are reliable, steadfast and accurate supporters of your nonsense. Your arguments have really become pathetic.

 

[Camp]

We caught you in a lie, PC. You can't post any of the Professor's evidence that supports your OP, can you?

Have you read the book? The answer is clearly no.

Your affirmation, kid, meet it.

Read it or not, she distorts it and insults Shivelbusch with her distortion of his thesis.

"To compare" Shivelbusch stesses, "is not the same as to equate. America during Roosevelt's New Deal did not become a one party state; it had no secret police;the New Deal preserved the institutions of the liberal-democrat system that National Socialism abolished." Shivelbusch Three New Deals Reason Magazine Oct 2007

1. I have read and studied same....and quote it exactly as it was written.

The dirt-bag whose post you include pretended he read it.


2. ".... the emergence of a new type of state: bolstered by mass propaganda, led by a charismatic figure, and projecting stability and power. He uncovers stunning similarities among the three regimes: the symbolic importance of gigantic public works programs like the TVA dams and the German autobahn, which not only put people back to work but embodied the state's authority; the seductive persuasiveness of Roosevelt's fireside chats and Mussolini's radio talks; the vogue for monumental architecture stamped on Washington, as on Berlin; and the omnipresent banners enlisting citizens as loyal followers of the state."
Three New Deals Reflections on Roosevelt s America Mussolini s Italy and Hitler s Germany 1933-1939 by Wolfgang Schivelbusch Reviews Discussion Bookclubs Lists


"...stunning similarities among the three regimes:" that would be Roosevelt, Mussolini, and Hitler.



3. At least two of the claims in your link are clearly false:
"...the constitution remained in force, and there were no concentration camps;..."

As it the pattern, you have been soundly thrashed.
Don't ever change.

The quote comes from your source. It directly addresses your OP. You opened the thread with a statement about my criticism of your misuse of sources and quotes. This is an example of how you cherry pick and distort your sources and quotes. Now you are cherry picking and distorting specific segments of your sources quotes.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Here's an article that discusses Benn Steil’s The Battle of Bretton Woods: John Maynard Keynes, Harry Dexter White, and the Making of a New World Order: The Communist Agent Who Caused Pearl Harbor — and Global Economic Havoc

Quote: Steil discusses White’s crucial role as a Soviet agent in the decisions and events that brought about the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Steil writes:

“We sighed a deep sigh of relief,” recalled the head of the American desk of the NKVD Intelligence Directorate, Vitali Pavlov. Yet this was not merely cheerleading from the sidelines. Pavlov had, secretly, been part of the game.

The Japanese decision to attack Pearl Harbor was the culmination of a series of critical political developments and, clearly, no single event, no single action, and no single individual can be said to have triggered it. Nevertheless, the most proximate cause has the curious connection with Pavlov and his most important American contact, Harry Dexter White.

Steil notes that, as a result of White’s fierce lobbying, FDR “authorized [Secretary of State] Hull to present the Japanese with what became known as the Ten-Point Note. Hull summoned Nomura and Kurusu on November 26 to deliver the austere ultimatum, incorporating White’s demands on China, without concessions. An alarmed Kurusu told Hull that the Japanese government would ‘throw up its hands’ if presented with such a response to their truce proposal. Hull did not waiver. The collision course had been set.”

And Soviet agent Harry Dexter White had set that course. Steil comments:

That White was the author of the key ultimatum demands is beyond dispute. That the Japanese government made the decision to move forward with the Pearl Harbor strike after receiving the ultimatum is also beyond dispute.

Steil notes that “the Soviets, American allies in the European war, were anxious to ensure that such an attack did take place.” He quotes Soviet spymaster Vladimir Karpov in this regard:

“The war in the Pacific could have been avoided,” wrote retired GRU military intelligence colonel and World War II “Hero of the Soviet Union” Vladimir Karpov in 2000, nearly sixty years after Pearl Harbor. “Stalin was the real initiator of the ultimatum to Japan,” he insisted.

How was that possible? Steil allows Karpov to explain:

“Harry Dexter White was acting in accordance with a design initiated by [NKVD intelligence official Iskhak] Akhmerov and Pavlov,” Karpov argued. “[White] prepared the aide-memoire for signature by Morgenthau and President Roosevelt.” The Soviets had, according to Karpov, used White to provoke Japan to attack the United States. The scheme even had a name, “Operation Snow,” snow referring to White. “[T]he essence of ‘Operation Snow’ was to provoke the war between the Empire of the Rising Sun and the USA and to insure the interests of the Soviet Union in the Far East.... If Japan was engaged in a war against the USA it would have no resources to strike against the USSR."

This is why FDR is a Hero to the American Left,

 

[CrusaderFrank]

We caught you in a lie, PC. You can't post any of the Professor's evidence that supports your OP, can you?

Have you read the book? The answer is clearly no.

Your affirmation, kid, meet it.

Read it or not, she distorts it and insults Shivelbusch with her distortion of his thesis.

"To compare" Shivelbusch stesses, "is not the same as to equate. America during Roosevelt's New Deal did not become a one party state; it had no secret police; the constitution remained in force, and there were no concentration camps; the New Deal preserved the institutions of the liberal-democrat system that National Socialism abolished." Shivelbusch Three New Deals Reason Magazine Oct 2007

No concentration camps.... for non-Japanese

 

[PoliticalChic]

We caught you in a lie, PC. You can't post any of the Professor's evidence that supports your OP, can you?

Have you read the book? The answer is clearly no.

Your affirmation, kid, meet it.

Read it or not, she distorts it and insults Shivelbusch with her distortion of his thesis.

"To compare" Shivelbusch stesses, "is not the same as to equate. America during Roosevelt's New Deal did not become a one party state; it had no secret police; the constitution remained in force, and there were no concentration camps; the New Deal preserved the institutions of the liberal-democrat system that National Socialism abolished." Shivelbusch Three New Deals Reason Magazine Oct 2007

No concentration camps.... for non-Japanese

None of the apologists seem ready to argue that Roosevelt didn't shred the Constitution.

That's good.....running government sans any restrictions is pretty much the textbook definition of a dictator.


Or the emperor...

"Obama: 'The Problem Is ... I’m Not the Emperor of the United States'
Obama The Problem Is ... I m Not the Emperor of the United States The Weekly Standard

 

[Camp]

We caught you in a lie, PC. You can't post any of the Professor's evidence that supports your OP, can you?

Have you read the book? The answer is clearly no.

Your affirmation, kid, meet it.

Read it or not, she distorts it and insults Shivelbusch with her distortion of his thesis.

"To compare" Shivelbusch stesses, "is not the same as to equate. America during Roosevelt's New Deal did not become a one party state; it had no secret police; the constitution remained in force, and there were no concentration camps; the New Deal preserved the institutions of the liberal-democrat system that National Socialism abolished." Shivelbusch Three New Deals Reason Magazine Oct 2007

No concentration camps.... for non-Japanese

Oh shut the f up. F your insinuation that America operated any kind of camp that in any way resembled the concentration camps of WWII that murdered by starving, forced labor, gassing and execution. We interred Japanese in internment camps. Your statement is anti American and an insult based on a lie. That makes you a lying anti American POS.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Lookie here,to no surprise the troll is still at it with her obsession over FDR and the democrat party.

 

[PoliticalChic]

We caught you in a lie, PC. You can't post any of the Professor's evidence that supports your OP, can you?

Have you read the book? The answer is clearly no.

Your affirmation, kid, meet it.

Read it or not, she distorts it and insults Shivelbusch with her distortion of his thesis.

"To compare" Shivelbusch stesses, "is not the same as to equate. America during Roosevelt's New Deal did not become a one party state; it had no secret police; the constitution remained in force, and there were no concentration camps; the New Deal preserved the institutions of the liberal-democrat system that National Socialism abolished." Shivelbusch Three New Deals Reason Magazine Oct 2007

No concentration camps.... for non-Japanese

Oh shut the f up. F your insinuation that America operated any kind of camp that in any way resembled the concentration camps of WWII that murdered by starving, forced labor, gassing and execution. We interred Japanese in internment camps. Your statement is anti American and an insult based on a lie. That makes you a lying anti American POS.

Why do Liberals always want alternate voices to 'shut up'?
What are you afraid of?

Truth?
Sort of like this:
concentration camp
n.
1. A camp where persons are confined, usually without hearings and typically under harsh conditions, often as a result of their membership in a group the government has identified as suspect.
concentration camp - definition of concentration camp by The Free Dictionary


Don't forget....
" Fascism did not acquire an evil name in Washington
until Hitler became a menace to·the Soviet Union." Manly, "The Twenty Year Revolution," p. 48

 

[PoliticalChic]

Lookie here,to no surprise the troll is still at it with her obsession over FDR and the democrat party.

"Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."
John, 8:32

 

[LA RAM FAN]

someone farted in here^

 

[Camp]

We caught you in a lie, PC. You can't post any of the Professor's evidence that supports your OP, can you?

Have you read the book? The answer is clearly no.

Your affirmation, kid, meet it.

Read it or not, she distorts it and insults Shivelbusch with her distortion of his thesis.

"To compare" Shivelbusch stesses, "is not the same as to equate. America during Roosevelt's New Deal did not become a one party state; it had no secret police; the constitution remained in force, and there were no concentration camps; the New Deal preserved the institutions of the liberal-democrat system that National Socialism abolished." Shivelbusch Three New Deals Reason Magazine Oct 2007

No concentration camps.... for non-Japanese

Oh shut the f up. F your insinuation that America operated any kind of camp that in any way resembled the concentration camps of WWII that murdered by starving, forced labor, gassing and execution. We interred Japanese in internment camps. Your statement is anti American and an insult based on a lie. That makes you a lying anti American POS.

Why do Liberals always want alternate voices to 'shut up'?
What are you afraid of?

Truth?
Sort of like this:
concentration camp
n.
1. A camp where persons are confined, usually without hearings and typically under harsh conditions, often as a result of their membership in a group the government has identified as suspect.
concentration camp - definition of concentration camp by The Free Dictionary


Don't forget....
" Fascism did not acquire an evil name in Washington
until Hitler became a menace to·the Soviet Union." Manly, "The Twenty Year Revolution," p. 48

Yet another great example of how this liar misleads by distorting quotes. Check out her link to The Free Dictionary definition of concentration camp. Why do you suppose she cherry picked one small portion of the definition supplied by Free Dictionary? Check out her link and see for yourself how she manipulates her links to misrepresent fact and truth.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

We caught you in a lie, PC. You can't post any of the Professor's evidence that supports your OP, can you?

Have you read the book? The answer is clearly no.

Your affirmation, kid, meet it.

Read it or not, she distorts it and insults Shivelbusch with her distortion of his thesis.

"To compare" Shivelbusch stesses, "is not the same as to equate. America during Roosevelt's New Deal did not become a one party state; it had no secret police; the constitution remained in force, and there were no concentration camps; the New Deal preserved the institutions of the liberal-democrat system that National Socialism abolished." Shivelbusch Three New Deals Reason Magazine Oct 2007

No concentration camps.... for non-Japanese

Oh shut the f up. F your insinuation that America operated any kind of camp that in any way resembled the concentration camps of WWII that murdered by starving, forced labor, gassing and execution. We interred Japanese in internment camps. Your statement is anti American and an insult based on a lie. That makes you a lying anti American POS.

Why do Liberals always want alternate voices to 'shut up'?
What are you afraid of?

Truth?
Sort of like this:
concentration camp
n.
1. A camp where persons are confined, usually without hearings and typically under harsh conditions, often as a result of their membership in a group the government has identified as suspect.
concentration camp - definition of concentration camp by The Free Dictionary


Don't forget....
" Fascism did not acquire an evil name in Washington
until Hitler became a menace to·the Soviet Union." Manly, "The Twenty Year Revolution," p. 48

Yet another great example of how this liar misleads by distorting quotes. Check out her link to The Free Dictionary definition of concentration camp. Why do you suppose she cherry picked one small portion of the definition supplied by Free Dictionary? Check out her link and see for yourself how she manipulates her links to misrepresent fact and truth.

what I have noticed about her trolling in her obsession over FDR which is really scary,is how she always blatantly ignores how the republicans are as corrupt as well NEVER mentioning the pic I have posted a few times in the past of Eisenhower standing next to stalin while he has his soliders murder children. has she EVER once talked about any other president here before other than FDR? I sure as hell cant remember it if she ever did.

 

[Camp]

Lookie here,to no surprise the troll is still at it with her obsession over FDR and the democrat party.

"Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."
John, 8:32

You can start by refraining from using quotes from the pen name fascist front Manly.