Sanders planning "Major Speech" on democratic socialism

[Mac1958]

There isn't enough money up there to pay for everything he wants government to do. The middle/upper middle class will have to be taxed as well.

The typical progressive mantra of "let other people pay for it" continues. What can't continue is the idea that the money will never run out.

We have a huge economy, but I am not sure what the figure is today. The problem is that the flow of money is not distributed fairly. In other words, the average worker is vastly underpaid since about 1980, while the upper corporate management has taken sky rocketing profits.

If only a small tax were placed on Wall Street transactions for example, government revenue would gain billions.

Here is Bernie's plan. Issues - Bernie Sanders

it always starts out with "only a small tax".

Those new taxes will take a bite out of my 401k, and everyone else's just as much as it will punish the rich (which is obviously your overall goal).

Bernie is a pie in the sky socialist in a friendly old man wolf suit.

Your 401k? HA!!! Money this country puts into 401k's ends up in some rich guy's pocket.

Market goes up 40%, your 401k goes up 20%. "You were invested conservatively to protect against a downturn." Market goes down 15%, your 401k loses 30%. "You were aggressively positioned and the market went down." Odd. Same fund. Your 401k is someone else's piggy bank.

$226k in mine at age 40. As long as I spend a few hours once a quarter to manage the fund balance I am doing just hunky dorey.

Great for you. Keep believing that. The chances of you retiring comfortably on your 401k is about nil. They know exactly how old you are.

Where are you getting this "your 401K is someone else's piggy bank" and "market goes up 40%, your 401K goes up 20%" stuff, exactly?
.

 

[g5000]

Poor Rabbi. He works so hard to delude himself these are left wingers:

 

[Correll]

We have a huge economy, but I am not sure what the figure is today. The problem is that the flow of money is not distributed fairly. In other words, the average worker is vastly underpaid since about 1980, while the upper corporate management has taken sky rocketing profits.

If only a small tax were placed on Wall Street transactions for example, government revenue would gain billions.

Here is Bernie's plan. Issues - Bernie Sanders

it always starts out with "only a small tax".

Those new taxes will take a bite out of my 401k, and everyone else's just as much as it will punish the rich (which is obviously your overall goal).

Bernie is a pie in the sky socialist in a friendly old man wolf suit.

Your 401k? HA!!! Money this country puts into 401k's ends up in some rich guy's pocket.

Market goes up 40%, your 401k goes up 20%. "You were invested conservatively to protect against a downturn." Market goes down 15%, your 401k loses 30%. "You were aggressively positioned and the market went down." Odd. Same fund. Your 401k is someone else's piggy bank.

$226k in mine at age 40. As long as I spend a few hours once a quarter to manage the fund balance I am doing just hunky dorey.

Great for you. Keep believing that. The chances of you retiring comfortably on your 401k is about nil. They know exactly how old you are.

Where are you getting this "your 401K is someone else's piggy bank" and "market goes up 40%, your 401K goes up 20%" stuff, exactly?
.

Libs just say stuff. They don't mean anything by it.

If it sticks, Yeeeahhh!!

If not, they say something else.

Anything for the agenda.

Truth, sense, logic, reason, all irrelevant.

 

[RandomVariable]

We have a huge economy, but I am not sure what the figure is today. The problem is that the flow of money is not distributed fairly. In other words, the average worker is vastly underpaid since about 1980, while the upper corporate management has taken sky rocketing profits.

If only a small tax were placed on Wall Street transactions for example, government revenue would gain billions.

Here is Bernie's plan. Issues - Bernie Sanders

it always starts out with "only a small tax".

Those new taxes will take a bite out of my 401k, and everyone else's just as much as it will punish the rich (which is obviously your overall goal).

Bernie is a pie in the sky socialist in a friendly old man wolf suit.

Your 401k? HA!!! Money this country puts into 401k's ends up in some rich guy's pocket.

Market goes up 40%, your 401k goes up 20%. "You were invested conservatively to protect against a downturn." Market goes down 15%, your 401k loses 30%. "You were aggressively positioned and the market went down." Odd. Same fund. Your 401k is someone else's piggy bank.

$226k in mine at age 40. As long as I spend a few hours once a quarter to manage the fund balance I am doing just hunky dorey.

Great for you. Keep believing that. The chances of you retiring comfortably on your 401k is about nil. They know exactly how old you are.

Where are you getting this "your 401K is someone else's piggy bank" and "market goes up 40%, your 401K goes up 20%" stuff, exactly?
.

You have a 401k?

 

[DonaldFG]

it always starts out with "only a small tax".

Those new taxes will take a bite out of my 401k, and everyone else's just as much as it will punish the rich (which is obviously your overall goal).

Bernie is a pie in the sky socialist in a friendly old man wolf suit.

All taxes are not bad, as you imply. Government cannot exist without taxes. As citizens, we are all responsible to support our government, especially those who have profited the most by its economic policies.

Some in the GOP have made the blunt statement that they want to shrink government so small that they could drown it in a bathtub. In other words, no government. Just corporate control. That's fascism. The people deserve better.

 

[Mac1958]

it always starts out with "only a small tax".

Those new taxes will take a bite out of my 401k, and everyone else's just as much as it will punish the rich (which is obviously your overall goal).

Bernie is a pie in the sky socialist in a friendly old man wolf suit.

Your 401k? HA!!! Money this country puts into 401k's ends up in some rich guy's pocket.

Market goes up 40%, your 401k goes up 20%. "You were invested conservatively to protect against a downturn." Market goes down 15%, your 401k loses 30%. "You were aggressively positioned and the market went down." Odd. Same fund. Your 401k is someone else's piggy bank.

$226k in mine at age 40. As long as I spend a few hours once a quarter to manage the fund balance I am doing just hunky dorey.

Great for you. Keep believing that. The chances of you retiring comfortably on your 401k is about nil. They know exactly how old you are.

Where are you getting this "your 401K is someone else's piggy bank" and "market goes up 40%, your 401K goes up 20%" stuff, exactly?
.

You have a 401k?

I'm a financial advisor, CFP, ChFC/CLU.

Several businesses with 401k plans as clients, several clients with 401k plans.
.

 

[RandomVariable]

Your 401k? HA!!! Money this country puts into 401k's ends up in some rich guy's pocket.

Market goes up 40%, your 401k goes up 20%. "You were invested conservatively to protect against a downturn." Market goes down 15%, your 401k loses 30%. "You were aggressively positioned and the market went down." Odd. Same fund. Your 401k is someone else's piggy bank.

$226k in mine at age 40. As long as I spend a few hours once a quarter to manage the fund balance I am doing just hunky dorey.

Great for you. Keep believing that. The chances of you retiring comfortably on your 401k is about nil. They know exactly how old you are.

Where are you getting this "your 401K is someone else's piggy bank" and "market goes up 40%, your 401K goes up 20%" stuff, exactly?
.

You have a 401k?

I'm a financial advisor, CFP, ChFC/CLU.

Several businesses with 401k plans as clients, several clients with 401k plans.
.

Do you have a 401k?

 

[The Rabbi]

Poor "conservatives"! Terrified of a word. So terrified they have to make up extra inaccurate definitions for it...

Were terrified of the word "Communism"? How about the word "Fascism"?

Yes, you were. Now you've replaced those fears with a one-size-fits-all word that does not mean what you think it means, and that blinds you to things you really should be concerned about.

But keep obsessing about the Big Scary WORD. That's how you lose elections.

LOL. You are so persuasive when you make shit up.

 

[The Rabbi]

National Democratic Socialism=Nazism.
Sanders is in favor of Nazism without its xenophobic elements.

That's like saying Colonel Sanders is in favor of fried chicken without the legs, thighs, or breasts.

Nice try.

No it's actually nothing like that. Try again.

 

[The Rabbi]

Poor Rabbi. He works so hard to delude himself these are left wingers:

Which one of them is you?

 

[The Rabbi]

We have a huge economy, but I am not sure what the figure is today. The problem is that the flow of money is not distributed fairly. In other words, the average worker is vastly underpaid since about 1980, while the upper corporate management has taken sky rocketing profits.

If only a small tax were placed on Wall Street transactions for example, government revenue would gain billions.

Here is Bernie's plan. Issues - Bernie Sanders

it always starts out with "only a small tax".

Those new taxes will take a bite out of my 401k, and everyone else's just as much as it will punish the rich (which is obviously your overall goal).

Bernie is a pie in the sky socialist in a friendly old man wolf suit.

Your 401k? HA!!! Money this country puts into 401k's ends up in some rich guy's pocket.

Market goes up 40%, your 401k goes up 20%. "You were invested conservatively to protect against a downturn." Market goes down 15%, your 401k loses 30%. "You were aggressively positioned and the market went down." Odd. Same fund. Your 401k is someone else's piggy bank.

$226k in mine at age 40. As long as I spend a few hours once a quarter to manage the fund balance I am doing just hunky dorey.

Great for you. Keep believing that. The chances of you retiring comfortably on your 401k is about nil. They know exactly how old you are.

Where are you getting this "your 401K is someone else's piggy bank" and "market goes up 40%, your 401K goes up 20%" stuff, exactly?
.

He made a deep study of the topic.

 

[RandomVariable]

it always starts out with "only a small tax".

Those new taxes will take a bite out of my 401k, and everyone else's just as much as it will punish the rich (which is obviously your overall goal).

Bernie is a pie in the sky socialist in a friendly old man wolf suit.

Your 401k? HA!!! Money this country puts into 401k's ends up in some rich guy's pocket.

Market goes up 40%, your 401k goes up 20%. "You were invested conservatively to protect against a downturn." Market goes down 15%, your 401k loses 30%. "You were aggressively positioned and the market went down." Odd. Same fund. Your 401k is someone else's piggy bank.

$226k in mine at age 40. As long as I spend a few hours once a quarter to manage the fund balance I am doing just hunky dorey.

Great for you. Keep believing that. The chances of you retiring comfortably on your 401k is about nil. They know exactly how old you are.

Where are you getting this "your 401K is someone else's piggy bank" and "market goes up 40%, your 401K goes up 20%" stuff, exactly?
.

He made a deep study of the topic.

Selfie?

 

[TNHarley]

Good, this should be interesting. I strongly suspect a clear delineation between democratic socialism and pure socialism to help clarify the national conversation:

Sanders planning ‘major speech’ on democratic socialism, he tells Iowa supporters

He does try here: What is a democratic socialist? Bernie Sanders tries to redefine the name.

“What democratic socialism means to me,” Sanders said during a recent speech in New Hampshire, “is having a government which represents all people, rather than just the wealthiest people, which is most often the case right now in this country.”

What that doesn't cover is control over ownership and means of distribution. I guess we'll see.
.

Meh
There is a difference between democratic socialism and socialism. DS is more like a regulated capitalist economy.
I would say he is more in between the two. He has made it clear he wants to nationalize!

 

[Disir]

The Socialist Party stands for the abolition of every form of domination and exploitation, whether based on social class, gender, race/ethnicity, age, education, sexual orientation, or other characteristics.

We are committed to the transformation of capitalism through the creation of a democratic socialist society based on compassion, empathy, and respect as well as the development of new social structures. Socialism will establish a new social and economic order in which workers and community members will take responsibility for and control of their interpersonal relationships, their neighborhoods, their local government, and the production and distribution of all goods and services.

For these reasons we call for social ownership and democratic control of productive resources, for a guarantee to all of the right to participate in societal production, and to a fair share of society's product, in accordance with individual needs.

As we pursue a socialist transformation of society, we join with others in making radical demands on the existing system: demands that challenge the basic assumptions of a capitalist market economy while pointing the way to a new society. Although reforms will not in themselves bring about socialism, the fight for them will advance the cause by demonstrating the inherent limitations and injustice of the capitalist system. As we build the socialist movement, we organize around a platform committed to our common and interdependent struggles and aspirations.

ECONOMICS
The Socialist Party stands for a fundamental transformation of the economy, focusing on production for need not profit. So-called fair trade is meaningless as long as the world economy is dominated by a few massive corporations. Only a global transformation from capitalism to democratic socialism will provide the conditions for international peace, justice, and economic cooperation based on the large-scale transfer of resources and technology from the developed to the developing countries.
• We demand the immediate withdrawal of the United States from the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) and the Central American Free Trade Agreement (CAFTA), and oppose the creation of a widened Free Trade Area of the Americas (FTAA).
• We call for worker and community ownership and control of corporations within the framework of a decentralized and democratically determined economic plan.
• We call for a minimum wage of $15 per hour, indexed to the cost of living.
• We call for a full employment policy. We support the provision of a livable guaranteed annual income.
• We call for all financial and insurance institutions to be socially owned and operated by a democratically-controlled national banking authority, which should include credit unions, mutual insurance cooperatives, and cooperative state banks. In the meantime, we call for reregulation of the banking and insurance industries.
• We call for a steeply graduated income tax and a steeply graduated estate tax, and a maximum income of no more than ten times the minimum. We oppose regressive taxes such as payroll tax, sales tax, and property taxes.
• We call for the restoration of the capital gains tax and luxury tax on a progressive, graduated scale.
• We call for compensation to communities-- and compensation, re-training, and other support service for workers-- affected by plant and military base closings as stop-gap measures until we reach our goal of creating a socialist society totally separate from the global capitalist economy.
• We oppose the International Monetary Fund, the World Bank, and the World Trade Organization as instruments of capitalist oppression throughout the world.
• We demand cancellation of Third World debt.
• We call for a National Pension Authority to hold the assets of private pension funds, and a levy against corporate assets for any pension fund deficits.
• We call for increased and expanded welfare assistance and increased and expanded unemployment compensation at 100% of a worker's previous income or the minimum wage, whichever is higher, for the full period of unemployment or re-training, whichever is longer.
• We support a program of massive federal investment in both urban and rural areas for infrastructure reconstruction and economic development.
• We support tax benefits for renters equal to those for homeowners.
• We call for the elimination of subsidies and tax breaks that benefit corporations and all other forms of corporate welfare.
• We oppose the court-created precedent of “corporate personhood” that illegitimately gives corporations rights that were intended for human beings.



Free and Fair Elections
The Socialist Party stands for political activity independent of the two major corporate parties. We view electoral activity as an important component of the struggle for fundamental social change. Participation as socialists in local, state, and national elections is a valuable way to clarify our position on a wide range of issues, of broadly disseminating our principles and programs, and of asserting and reaffirming our commitment to the democratic process. We believe that capitalism is fundamentally incompatible with democracy and that true democracy can only be achieved with society’s transformation to socialism.
Platform - SOCIALIST  PARTY  USA

^^^Socialism.

 

[martybegan]

it always starts out with "only a small tax".

Those new taxes will take a bite out of my 401k, and everyone else's just as much as it will punish the rich (which is obviously your overall goal).

Bernie is a pie in the sky socialist in a friendly old man wolf suit.

All taxes are not bad, as you imply. Government cannot exist without taxes. As citizens, we are all responsible to support our government, especially those who have profited the most by its economic policies.

Some in the GOP have made the blunt statement that they want to shrink government so small that they could drown it in a bathtub. In other words, no government. Just corporate control. That's fascism. The people deserve better.

I imply nothing. I just point out that it always Starts out with "group X having to pay just a bit more", and grows and grows until just a bit more becomes a lot.

And your second point is argumentum ad absurdum. Wanting a return to slim federalist government is not asking for anarchy.

 

[Papageorgio]

Good, this should be interesting. I strongly suspect a clear delineation between democratic socialism and pure socialism to help clarify the national conversation:

Sanders planning ‘major speech’ on democratic socialism, he tells Iowa supporters

He does try here: What is a democratic socialist? Bernie Sanders tries to redefine the name.

“What democratic socialism means to me,” Sanders said during a recent speech in New Hampshire, “is having a government which represents all people, rather than just the wealthiest people, which is most often the case right now in this country.”

What that doesn't cover is control over ownership and means of distribution. I guess we'll see.
.

It's 2015. Why does there need to be a national conversation at all?

How else is Bernie gonna buy votes?

 

[whitehall]

How does a "major" speech differ from an ordinary speech? Will Sanders pass out tracts from "Thoughts of Chairman Mao" or simply quote Karl Marx?

 

[Disir]

Good, this should be interesting. I strongly suspect a clear delineation between democratic socialism and pure socialism to help clarify the national conversation:

Sanders planning ‘major speech’ on democratic socialism, he tells Iowa supporters

He does try here: What is a democratic socialist? Bernie Sanders tries to redefine the name.

“What democratic socialism means to me,” Sanders said during a recent speech in New Hampshire, “is having a government which represents all people, rather than just the wealthiest people, which is most often the case right now in this country.”

What that doesn't cover is control over ownership and means of distribution. I guess we'll see.
.

It's 2015. Why does there need to be a national conversation at all?

How else is Bernie gonna buy votes?

Try again.

 

[The Rabbi]

The Socialist Party stands for the abolition of every form of domination and exploitation, whether based on social class, gender, race/ethnicity, age, education, sexual orientation, or other characteristics.

We are committed to the transformation of capitalism through the creation of a democratic socialist society based on compassion, empathy, and respect as well as the development of new social structures. Socialism will establish a new social and economic order in which workers and community members will take responsibility for and control of their interpersonal relationships, their neighborhoods, their local government, and the production and distribution of all goods and services.

For these reasons we call for social ownership and democratic control of productive resources, for a guarantee to all of the right to participate in societal production, and to a fair share of society's product, in accordance with individual needs.

As we pursue a socialist transformation of society, we join with others in making radical demands on the existing system: demands that challenge the basic assumptions of a capitalist market economy while pointing the way to a new society. Although reforms will not in themselves bring about socialism, the fight for them will advance the cause by demonstrating the inherent limitations and injustice of the capitalist system. As we build the socialist movement, we organize around a platform committed to our common and interdependent struggles and aspirations.

ECONOMICS
The Socialist Party stands for a fundamental transformation of the economy, focusing on production for need not profit. So-called fair trade is meaningless as long as the world economy is dominated by a few massive corporations. Only a global transformation from capitalism to democratic socialism will provide the conditions for international peace, justice, and economic cooperation based on the large-scale transfer of resources and technology from the developed to the developing countries.
• We demand the immediate withdrawal of the United States from the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) and the Central American Free Trade Agreement (CAFTA), and oppose the creation of a widened Free Trade Area of the Americas (FTAA).
• We call for worker and community ownership and control of corporations within the framework of a decentralized and democratically determined economic plan.
• We call for a minimum wage of $15 per hour, indexed to the cost of living.
• We call for a full employment policy. We support the provision of a livable guaranteed annual income.
• We call for all financial and insurance institutions to be socially owned and operated by a democratically-controlled national banking authority, which should include credit unions, mutual insurance cooperatives, and cooperative state banks. In the meantime, we call for reregulation of the banking and insurance industries.
• We call for a steeply graduated income tax and a steeply graduated estate tax, and a maximum income of no more than ten times the minimum. We oppose regressive taxes such as payroll tax, sales tax, and property taxes.
• We call for the restoration of the capital gains tax and luxury tax on a progressive, graduated scale.
• We call for compensation to communities-- and compensation, re-training, and other support service for workers-- affected by plant and military base closings as stop-gap measures until we reach our goal of creating a socialist society totally separate from the global capitalist economy.
• We oppose the International Monetary Fund, the World Bank, and the World Trade Organization as instruments of capitalist oppression throughout the world.
• We demand cancellation of Third World debt.
• We call for a National Pension Authority to hold the assets of private pension funds, and a levy against corporate assets for any pension fund deficits.
• We call for increased and expanded welfare assistance and increased and expanded unemployment compensation at 100% of a worker's previous income or the minimum wage, whichever is higher, for the full period of unemployment or re-training, whichever is longer.
• We support a program of massive federal investment in both urban and rural areas for infrastructure reconstruction and economic development.
• We support tax benefits for renters equal to those for homeowners.
• We call for the elimination of subsidies and tax breaks that benefit corporations and all other forms of corporate welfare.
• We oppose the court-created precedent of “corporate personhood” that illegitimately gives corporations rights that were intended for human beings.



Free and Fair Elections
The Socialist Party stands for political activity independent of the two major corporate parties. We view electoral activity as an important component of the struggle for fundamental social change. Participation as socialists in local, state, and national elections is a valuable way to clarify our position on a wide range of issues, of broadly disseminating our principles and programs, and of asserting and reaffirming our commitment to the democratic process. We believe that capitalism is fundamentally incompatible with democracy and that true democracy can only be achieved with society’s transformation to socialism.
Platform - SOCIALIST PARTY USA

^^^Socialism.

Yawn, When you have something substantive let us know.

 

[Papageorgio]

Good, this should be interesting. I strongly suspect a clear delineation between democratic socialism and pure socialism to help clarify the national conversation:

Sanders planning ‘major speech’ on democratic socialism, he tells Iowa supporters

He does try here: What is a democratic socialist? Bernie Sanders tries to redefine the name.

“What democratic socialism means to me,” Sanders said during a recent speech in New Hampshire, “is having a government which represents all people, rather than just the wealthiest people, which is most often the case right now in this country.”

What that doesn't cover is control over ownership and means of distribution. I guess we'll see.
.

It's 2015. Why does there need to be a national conversation at all?

How else is Bernie gonna buy votes?

Try again.

Don't need to, I answered the question. Without buying votes, without pitting class against class, how does he get any votes?