Sarah is getting her Lung transplant!!!! :)

[JoeB131]

[

You are a natural pessimist, Noomi. I get sick of people who cannot take the time to celebrate the renewal of a life from the brink of death. At least those adults survived their childhood, this girl on the other hand, had a good chance of dying before she had a chance to make it to her 11th birthday. You cannot accept the realities of life, you think it should be automatically fair for everyone. It doesn't work that way.

Except the doctors who have preformed thousands of these procedures have put a limit there for a reason.

Of course, an 11 year old is more sympathetic than a 25 year old. But if you have only a 10% chance of success with the 11 year old and a 95% chance of success with the 25 year old, who do you go with if you only have one lung?

It's what you frequently accuse liberals of. Putting Emotion before Reason.

 

[TemplarKormac]

But now that she has a lung, what about the other kids who need one, too? Do the adults just get pushed off the list because a child is worth more?

You are a natural pessimist, Noomi. I get sick of people who cannot take the time to celebrate the renewal of a life from the brink of death. At least those adults survived their childhood, this girl on the other hand, had a good chance of dying before she had a chance to make it to her 11th birthday. You cannot accept the realities of life, you think it should be automatically fair for everyone. It doesn't work that way.

Yep.

I agree with noomi's thoughts..and I agree with yours. What if it were your teen or 30 year old child, Templar, that was pushed back? Would you feel differently?

This is a torn thing for me. Torn.

Jealousy and anger are not good things when you have a dying family member. I rely on my faith in God. I don't get angry when someone cuts ahead of me in line at the store in fact, I'm not in much of a hurry most of the time, at any rate what makes you think I would get angry if someone got an essential organ ahead of me? I should be lucky enough to be on that list, not whining because I got pushed back. I have a soft place for young ones, since one almost died of leukemia at my church.

This is an intense issue, but even in grief, I can't afford to be pessimistic. Faith, Gracie, faith. If it's their time to go, that's God's plan, if it's not, the same applies. I will thank him for the time he gave them to be with me.

 

[Noomi]

Uh, she did need the lung more than someone else. She was dying, rapidly, Noomi! Had it been a week more, she would have died! Now, she gets a chance to live a normal life. How can we deny her that?

How can you be so cruel?

But now that she has a lung, what about the other kids who need one, too? Do the adults just get pushed off the list because a child is worth more?

You are a natural pessimist, Noomi. I get sick of people who cannot take the time to celebrate the renewal of a life from the brink of death. At least those adults survived their childhood, this girl on the other hand, had a good chance of dying before she had a chance to make it to her 11th birthday. You cannot accept the realities of life, you think it should be automatically fair for everyone. It doesn't work that way.

I like to think that I would give up my chance for a transplant if I knew that a child needed it more. Having said that, there is an adult and a child donor list for a REASON.

Why should the children be put first, before the adults, who have families and children to care for?

 

[JoeB131]

[

Jealousy and anger are not good things when you have a dying family member. I rely on my faith in God. I don't get angry when someone cuts ahead of me in line at the store in fact, I'm not in much of a hurry most of the time, at any rate what makes you think I would get angry if someone got an essential organ ahead of me? I should be lucky enough to be on that list, not whining because I got pushed back. I have a soft place for young ones, since one almost died of leukemia at my church.

This is an intense issue, but even in grief, I can't afford to be pessimistic. Faith, Gracie, faith. If it's their time to go, that's God's plan, if it's not, the same applies. I will thank him for the time he gave them to be with me.

So when a tornado flattens a Church full of corn-feed bible thumpers and misses the strip club, you tell yourself, "God had a plan"?

We all have sympathy for the "young ones", but that isn't the issue here. The issue is that a dubious medical procedure was preformed because of emotional considerations instead of scientific/medical ones.

 

[TemplarKormac]

[

You are a natural pessimist, Noomi. I get sick of people who cannot take the time to celebrate the renewal of a life from the brink of death. At least those adults survived their childhood, this girl on the other hand, had a good chance of dying before she had a chance to make it to her 11th birthday. You cannot accept the realities of life, you think it should be automatically fair for everyone. It doesn't work that way.

Except the doctors who have preformed thousands of these procedures have put a limit there for a reason.

Of course, an 11 year old is more sympathetic than a 25 year old. But if you have only a 10% chance of success with the 11 year old and a 95% chance of success with the 25 year old, who do you go with if you only have one lung?

It's what you frequently accuse liberals of. Putting Emotion before Reason.

You do what you accuse conservatives of doing, putting conjecture before fact, and reason. My god Joe, do you have a heart beating in that chest of yours? Are you even capable of compassion? Your question is not even worth answering.

 

[TheOldSchool]

I don't think we know enough about how the lists are determined. There was likely a lot of careful and thoughtful consideration in making it.

But I'm glad the girl gets to live. I like to think that if I ever needed an organ and I found out that someone younger with their whole life ahead of them needed it also I'd give up my turn. But who knows

 

[Gracie]

You are a natural pessimist, Noomi. I get sick of people who cannot take the time to celebrate the renewal of a life from the brink of death. At least those adults survived their childhood, this girl on the other hand, had a good chance of dying before she had a chance to make it to her 11th birthday. You cannot accept the realities of life, you think it should be automatically fair for everyone. It doesn't work that way.

Yep.

I agree with noomi's thoughts..and I agree with yours. What if it were your teen or 30 year old child, Templar, that was pushed back? Would you feel differently?

This is a torn thing for me. Torn.

Jealousy and anger are not good things when you have a dying family member. I rely on my faith in God. I don't get angry when someone cuts ahead of me in line at the store in fact, I'm not in much of a hurry most of the time, at any rate what makes you think I would get angry if someone got an essential organ ahead of me? I should be lucky enough to be on that list, not whining because I got pushed back. I have a soft place for young ones, since one almost died of leukemia at my church.

This is an intense issue, but even in grief, I can't afford to be pessimistic. Faith, Gracie, faith. If it's their time to go, that's God's plan, if it's not, the same applies. I will thank him for the time he gave them to be with me.

The question was not if YOU were on the list. The question was...what if YOUR child....not 11 years old but maybe 19, or 30 years old..was pushed BACK and needed it just as badly as Sarah? Would you feel the same way?

 

[Noomi]

[

You are a natural pessimist, Noomi. I get sick of people who cannot take the time to celebrate the renewal of a life from the brink of death. At least those adults survived their childhood, this girl on the other hand, had a good chance of dying before she had a chance to make it to her 11th birthday. You cannot accept the realities of life, you think it should be automatically fair for everyone. It doesn't work that way.

Except the doctors who have preformed thousands of these procedures have put a limit there for a reason.

Of course, an 11 year old is more sympathetic than a 25 year old. But if you have only a 10% chance of success with the 11 year old and a 95% chance of success with the 25 year old, who do you go with if you only have one lung?

It's what you frequently accuse liberals of. Putting Emotion before Reason.

Exactly. You want to get as many years out of that organ as you can.

Its the same thing if you have an elderly man who needs a kidney, and a young man who needs one. The old man is likely to die before too long anyway, and the surgery itself is very risky, given the age. So you go with the younger man because he is more likely to 1), make it through the surgery, and 2) get more use out of the organ.

 

[Gracie]

oh. Sorry. I didn't see the last paragraph. Thank you for answering.

 

[TemplarKormac]

[

Jealousy and anger are not good things when you have a dying family member. I rely on my faith in God. I don't get angry when someone cuts ahead of me in line at the store in fact, I'm not in much of a hurry most of the time, at any rate what makes you think I would get angry if someone got an essential organ ahead of me? I should be lucky enough to be on that list, not whining because I got pushed back. I have a soft place for young ones, since one almost died of leukemia at my church.

This is an intense issue, but even in grief, I can't afford to be pessimistic. Faith, Gracie, faith. If it's their time to go, that's God's plan, if it's not, the same applies. I will thank him for the time he gave them to be with me.

So when a tornado flattens a Church full of corn-feed bible thumpers and misses the strip club, you tell yourself, "God had a plan"?

We all have sympathy for the "young ones", but that isn't the issue here. The issue is that a dubious medical procedure was preformed because of emotional considerations instead of scientific/medical ones.

Showing your true colors.. Luring me into one of your fabricated moral dilemmas is pointless. Actually, the procedure was done because the child had days to live. So um, shove your scenarios up your backside, okay Joe? Not putting up with it.

 

[Noomi]

[

You are a natural pessimist, Noomi. I get sick of people who cannot take the time to celebrate the renewal of a life from the brink of death. At least those adults survived their childhood, this girl on the other hand, had a good chance of dying before she had a chance to make it to her 11th birthday. You cannot accept the realities of life, you think it should be automatically fair for everyone. It doesn't work that way.

Except the doctors who have preformed thousands of these procedures have put a limit there for a reason.

Of course, an 11 year old is more sympathetic than a 25 year old. But if you have only a 10% chance of success with the 11 year old and a 95% chance of success with the 25 year old, who do you go with if you only have one lung?

It's what you frequently accuse liberals of. Putting Emotion before Reason.

You do what you accuse liberals of doing, putting conjecture before fact, and reason. My god Joe, do you have a heart beating in that chest of yours? Are you even capable of compassion? Your question is not even worth answering.

Of course Joe has compassion, as do I. We are debating with logic here, you are relying on emotions - yet you accuse us of doing that all the time!

 

[Gracie]

Then it should be up to the person pushed back to make room for a child that needs an adult size organ, shouldn't it?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Yep.

I agree with noomi's thoughts..and I agree with yours. What if it were your teen or 30 year old child, Templar, that was pushed back? Would you feel differently?

This is a torn thing for me. Torn.

Jealousy and anger are not good things when you have a dying family member. I rely on my faith in God. I don't get angry when someone cuts ahead of me in line at the store in fact, I'm not in much of a hurry most of the time, at any rate what makes you think I would get angry if someone got an essential organ ahead of me? I should be lucky enough to be on that list, not whining because I got pushed back. I have a soft place for young ones, since one almost died of leukemia at my church.

This is an intense issue, but even in grief, I can't afford to be pessimistic. Faith, Gracie, faith. If it's their time to go, that's God's plan, if it's not, the same applies. I will thank him for the time he gave them to be with me.

The question was not if YOU were on the list. The question was...what if YOUR child....not 11 years old but maybe 19, or 30 years old..was pushed BACK and needed it just as badly as Sarah? Would you feel the same way?

Damn, this thread is going to make me ill. Do you not care that her parents were in that same dilemma when she didn't meet the age requirement? Everyone wants a chance at saving life, but not everyone does! I rejoice for those that do, mourn those that don't. But I would still answer the same way if it were a loved one.

I am through with this thread. People are too damned cold and calculating to give thanks for those who have been given a second chance. I am absolutely appalled by some of the mindsets here. All people can do is speculate on the what ifs, and not on the fact this girl will still live.

My counter question, what if that little girl were yours, Gracie? Would you not have done the same? Or would you let her die for the sake of "someone who needed it more than her"?

do na da' go hv!

 

[TemplarKormac]

Except the doctors who have preformed thousands of these procedures have put a limit there for a reason.

Of course, an 11 year old is more sympathetic than a 25 year old. But if you have only a 10% chance of success with the 11 year old and a 95% chance of success with the 25 year old, who do you go with if you only have one lung?

It's what you frequently accuse liberals of. Putting Emotion before Reason.

You do what you accuse liberals of doing, putting conjecture before fact, and reason. My god Joe, do you have a heart beating in that chest of yours? Are you even capable of compassion? Your question is not even worth answering.

Of course Joe has compassion, as do I. We are debating with logic here, you are relying on emotions - yet you accuse us of doing that all the time!

When children are involved, I consider what impact the could potentially have on the world, or those around them, the life they have yet to live. That's the logic behind it. I said I was done. If you two actually had compassion, you sure as hell wouldn't let logic hinder it. Or is having love and compassion for a child irrational for you two? Yes, your damned right this is making me emotional. I love children, I've always loved children. It makes it hard to have faith in the world when people like the both of you take the time to apply logic to the situation. When someone has days or hours to live, they more than likely need that organ more than much of the people on that list. Reason this those parents sat there and thought they were going to lose their child, because of some technicality in the law, they did what any good parent would do. They fought for the life of their child. Would you not do that for your own? Or would you apply sordid logic to that and say "I'm sorry, someone needs this more than you, lets be nice and let them go first."

I didn't think so.

 

[Noomi]

My counter question, what if that little girl were yours, Gracie? Would you not have done the same? Or would you let her die for the sake of "someone who needed it more than her"?

do na da' go hv!

So in other words, you are asking her if she would throw a hissy fit, believing that her life is worth more than someone else's?

Good grief. You are on the damned list, you wait your fucking turn. First on the list, first to get the organ if one is available. That is how it works, and that is how it should stay.

 

[Noomi]

You do what you accuse liberals of doing, putting conjecture before fact, and reason. My god Joe, do you have a heart beating in that chest of yours? Are you even capable of compassion? Your question is not even worth answering.

Of course Joe has compassion, as do I. We are debating with logic here, you are relying on emotions - yet you accuse us of doing that all the time!

When children are involved, I consider what impact the could potentially have on the world, or those around them, that's the logic behind it. I said I was done. If you two actually had compassion, you sure as hell wouldn't let logic hinder it.

So what happens if the adult who WOULD have got this organ dies because it was taken by this child?

Will you care then?

 

[Gracie]

Jealousy and anger are not good things when you have a dying family member. I rely on my faith in God. I don't get angry when someone cuts ahead of me in line at the store in fact, I'm not in much of a hurry most of the time, at any rate what makes you think I would get angry if someone got an essential organ ahead of me? I should be lucky enough to be on that list, not whining because I got pushed back. I have a soft place for young ones, since one almost died of leukemia at my church.

This is an intense issue, but even in grief, I can't afford to be pessimistic. Faith, Gracie, faith. If it's their time to go, that's God's plan, if it's not, the same applies. I will thank him for the time he gave them to be with me.

The question was not if YOU were on the list. The question was...what if YOUR child....not 11 years old but maybe 19, or 30 years old..was pushed BACK and needed it just as badly as Sarah? Would you feel the same way?

Damn, this thread is going to make me ill. Do you not care that her parents were in that same dilemma when she didn't meet the age requirement? Everyone wants a chance at saving life, but not everyone does! I rejoice for those that do, mourn those that don't. But I would still answer the same way if it were a loved one.

I am through with this thread. People are too damned cold and calculating to give thanks for those who have been given a second chance. I am absolutely appalled by some of the mindsets here. All people can do is speculate on the what ifs, and not on the fact this girl will still live.

My counter question, what if that little girl were yours, Gracie? Would you not have done the same? Or would you let her die for the sake of "someone who needed it more than her"?

do na da' go hv!

My child were to take the place of Sarah, you bet I would fight to get her the organ. If my child was bumped back for Sarah to get the organ, you bet I would fight that MY child would stay in place on the list and not be pushed back. If it were ME on the list, I would willingly let my place be taken for the child.

You are getting too wound up, Templar. It is a no win any way you look at it...for the one pushed back...for the one that actually died so the lung became available...for Sarah, whose body may not take the donation.

 

[JoeB131]

[

You are a natural pessimist, Noomi. I get sick of people who cannot take the time to celebrate the renewal of a life from the brink of death. At least those adults survived their childhood, this girl on the other hand, had a good chance of dying before she had a chance to make it to her 11th birthday. You cannot accept the realities of life, you think it should be automatically fair for everyone. It doesn't work that way.

Except the doctors who have preformed thousands of these procedures have put a limit there for a reason.

Of course, an 11 year old is more sympathetic than a 25 year old. But if you have only a 10% chance of success with the 11 year old and a 95% chance of success with the 25 year old, who do you go with if you only have one lung?

It's what you frequently accuse liberals of. Putting Emotion before Reason.

You do what you accuse liberals of doing, putting conjecture before fact, and reason. My god Joe, do you have a heart beating in that chest of yours? Are you even capable of compassion? Your question is not even worth answering.

Doctors and professionals have to answer those questions every day.

Again- you have an 11 year old with only a 10% chance of survival if she gets a lung transplant.

You have a 25 year old with a 95% chance of survival if he gets that lung.

Only one lung.

Who gets it?

It's a hard question, to be sure. But you have to apply reason and statistics instead of emotion. Otherwise you get two dead people instead of one.

 

[Noomi]

Reason this, those parents sat there and thought they were going to lose their child, because of some technicality in the law, they did what any good parent would do. They fought for the life of their child.

At the expense of the life of someone else.

 

[Noomi]

Except the doctors who have preformed thousands of these procedures have put a limit there for a reason.

Of course, an 11 year old is more sympathetic than a 25 year old. But if you have only a 10% chance of success with the 11 year old and a 95% chance of success with the 25 year old, who do you go with if you only have one lung?

It's what you frequently accuse liberals of. Putting Emotion before Reason.

You do what you accuse liberals of doing, putting conjecture before fact, and reason. My god Joe, do you have a heart beating in that chest of yours? Are you even capable of compassion? Your question is not even worth answering.

Doctors and professionals have to answer those questions every day.

Again- you have an 11 year old with only a 10% chance of survival if she gets a lung transplant.

You have a 25 year old with a 95% chance of survival if he gets that lung.

Only one lung.

Who gets it?

It's a hard question, to be sure. But you have to apply reason and statistics instead of emotion. Otherwise you get two dead people instead of one.

He won't answer that question. The answer is too obvious and he can't admit it.