Sarah is getting her Lung transplant!!!! :)

[Katzndogz]

This was an incredibly dubious procedure. The lungs had to be resized and cut down to fit in that smaller chest cavity. And, they will not grow. If Sarah lives to adulthood she will be laboring to breathe with much smaller lungs.

 

[Noomi]

This was an incredibly dubious procedure. The lungs had to be resized and cut down to fit in that smaller chest cavity. And, they will not grow. If Sarah lives to adulthood she will be laboring to breathe with much smaller lungs.

But, but - she's a child, and therefore deserves to live more than anyone else!

Don't worry, when she needs another transplant, her parents can just get a judge to bump her back up to the top of the list.

 

[TemplarKormac]

My counter question, what if that little girl were yours, Gracie? Would you not have done the same? Or would you let her die for the sake of "someone who needed it more than her"?

do na da' go hv!

So in other words, you are asking her if she would throw a hissy fit, believing that her life is worth more than someone else's?

Good grief. You are on the damned list, you wait your fucking turn. First on the list, first to get the organ if one is available. That is how it works, and that is how it should stay.

Good grief, have a child, and watch them die slowly of a correctable condition. You won't be thinking that way afterwards. Insensitive the lot of you!

 

[JoeB131]

[

When children are involved, I consider what impact the could potentially have on the world, or those around them, the life they have yet to live. That's the logic behind it. I said I was done. If you two actually had compassion, you sure as hell wouldn't let logic hinder it. Or is having love and compassion for a child irrational for you two? Yes, your damned right this is making me emotional. I love children, I've always loved children. It makes it hard to have faith in the world when people like the both of you take the time to apply logic to the situation. When someone has days or hours to live, they more than likely need that organ more than much of the people on that list. Reason this, those parents sat there and thought they were going to lose their child, because of some technicality in the law, they did what any good parent would do. They fought for the life of their child. Would you not do that for your own? Or would you apply sordid logic to that and say "I'm sorry, someone needs this more than you, lets be nice and let them go first."

I didn't think so.

Again, emotion isn't logic.

Logic is that you have to calculate the odds and make rational decisions.

I've talked about my Mom on these threads. She died when I was 20, from Liver Cancer. They did a lot of things to her to stretch her life out a few more weeks. Maybe they increased the quantity of life but certainly not the quality, where she was bedridden and in pain most of the time. At her funeral, I remember her life-long friend being horrified as to how much weight she lost.

(I also remembered a Nun she worked with trying to claim the Sky Pixie had a reason. Was pretty much done with religion after that shit.)

Here's the thing. 100% of us are going to die.

So when deciding who is going to maybe live, the decison has to be made rationally. Who is going to have the best possibility of recovery, not who is going to tug at our heartstrings the most.

For the record. I've signed my organ donor cards. If you can find an organ in my body that can save a life after I'm done using it, you are welcome to it. (I'd pass on the liver, though.)

 

[TemplarKormac]

Except the doctors who have preformed thousands of these procedures have put a limit there for a reason.

Of course, an 11 year old is more sympathetic than a 25 year old. But if you have only a 10% chance of success with the 11 year old and a 95% chance of success with the 25 year old, who do you go with if you only have one lung?

It's what you frequently accuse liberals of. Putting Emotion before Reason.

You do what you accuse liberals of doing, putting conjecture before fact, and reason. My god Joe, do you have a heart beating in that chest of yours? Are you even capable of compassion? Your question is not even worth answering.

Doctors and professionals have to answer those questions every day.

Again- you have an 11 year old with only a 10% chance of survival if she gets a lung transplant.

You have a 25 year old with a 95% chance of survival if he gets that lung.

Only one lung.

Who gets it?

It's a hard question, to be sure. But you have to apply reason and statistics instead of emotion. Otherwise you get two dead people instead of one.

Reason is not possible in desperation, I would take 10% over zero. You've never been a parent I gather. Elsewise you'd show a little more heart.

Here's some movie trivia, Joe, from the movie "I Robot"

Susan Calvin: What happened to you?

Detective Del Spooner: Headed back to the station. Normal day, normal life. The driver of a semi fell asleep at the wheel. Average guy, wife and kids, working a double. *Not* the devil. The car he hit, the driver's name was Harold Lloyd. Like the film star, but no relation. He was killed instantly. But his twelve-year-old was sitting in the passenger's seat. Never really met her. Can't forget her face, though. Sarah.

[fingering the necklace]

Detective Del Spooner: This was hers. She wanted to be a dentist. What the hell kind of twelve-year-old wants to be a dentist? Yeah, um... the truck smashed our cars together and pushed us into the river. You know, metal gets pretty pliable at those speeds. She's pinned, I'm pinned, the water's coming in. I'm a cop, so I know everybody's dead. Just a few minutes until we figure that out. NS4 was passing by and jumped in the river.

NS4 Robots: [from flashback] You are in danger!

Detective Del Spooner: [from flashback] Save her!

NS4 Robots: [from flashback] You are in danger!

Detective Del Spooner: [from flashback] Save her! Save the girl!

Detective Del Spooner: But it didn't. Saved me.

Susan Calvin: The robot's brain is a difference engine. It's reading vital signs. It must have done...

Detective Del Spooner: It did. I was the logical choice. It calculated that I had a 45% chance of survival. Sarah only had an 11% chance. That was somebody's baby. 11% is more than enough. A human being would've known that. Robots,

[indicating his heart]

Detective Del Spooner: nothing here, just lights and clockwork. Go ahead, you trust 'em if you want to.

Logic be damned Joe.

 

[Gracie]

There is no reasoning with you, Templar. None. You refuse to acknowledge truth because it is so horrifying. Can't say I blame you, but instead of taking it out on everyone, you should take a deep breath.

 

[Noomi]

You do what you accuse liberals of doing, putting conjecture before fact, and reason. My god Joe, do you have a heart beating in that chest of yours? Are you even capable of compassion? Your question is not even worth answering.

Doctors and professionals have to answer those questions every day.

Again- you have an 11 year old with only a 10% chance of survival if she gets a lung transplant.

You have a 25 year old with a 95% chance of survival if he gets that lung.

Only one lung.

Who gets it?

It's a hard question, to be sure. But you have to apply reason and statistics instead of emotion. Otherwise you get two dead people instead of one.

Reason is not possible in desperation, I would take 10% over zero. You've never been a parent I gather. Elsewise you'd show a little more heart.

Here's some movie trivia, Joe, from the movie "I Robot"

Susan Calvin: What happened to you?

Detective Del Spooner: Headed back to the station. Normal day, normal life. The driver of a semi fell asleep at the wheel. Average guy, wife and kids, working a double. *Not* the devil. The car he hit, the driver's name was Harold Lloyd. Like the film star, but no relation. He was killed instantly. But his twelve-year-old was sitting in the passenger's seat. Never really met her. Can't forget her face, though. Sarah.

[fingering the necklace]

Detective Del Spooner: This was hers. She wanted to be a dentist. What the hell kind of twelve-year-old wants to be a dentist? Yeah, um... the truck smashed our cars together and pushed us into the river. You know, metal gets pretty pliable at those speeds. She's pinned, I'm pinned, the water's coming in. I'm a cop, so I know everybody's dead. Just a few minutes until we figure that out. NS4 was passing by and jumped in the river.

NS4 Robots: [from flashback] You are in danger!

Detective Del Spooner: [from flashback] Save her!

NS4 Robots: [from flashback] You are in danger!

Detective Del Spooner: [from flashback] Save her! Save the girl!

Detective Del Spooner: But it didn't. Saved me.

Susan Calvin: The robot's brain is a difference engine. It's reading vital signs. It must have done...

Detective Del Spooner: It did. I was the logical choice. It calculated that I had a 45% chance of survival. Sarah only had an 11% chance. That was somebody's baby. 11% is more than enough. A human being would've known that. Robots,

[indicating his heart]

Detective Del Spooner: nothing here, just lights and clockwork. Go ahead, you trust 'em if you want to.

Logic be damned Joe.

You are happy to hand over a perfectly good organ to someone who has less than half the chance at survival than someone else?

Good God.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Doctors and professionals have to answer those questions every day.

Again- you have an 11 year old with only a 10% chance of survival if she gets a lung transplant.

You have a 25 year old with a 95% chance of survival if he gets that lung.

Only one lung.

Who gets it?

It's a hard question, to be sure. But you have to apply reason and statistics instead of emotion. Otherwise you get two dead people instead of one.

Reason is not possible in desperation, I would take 10% over zero. You've never been a parent I gather. Elsewise you'd show a little more heart.

Here's some movie trivia, Joe, from the movie "I Robot"

Susan Calvin: What happened to you?

Detective Del Spooner: Headed back to the station. Normal day, normal life. The driver of a semi fell asleep at the wheel. Average guy, wife and kids, working a double. *Not* the devil. The car he hit, the driver's name was Harold Lloyd. Like the film star, but no relation. He was killed instantly. But his twelve-year-old was sitting in the passenger's seat. Never really met her. Can't forget her face, though. Sarah.

[fingering the necklace]

Detective Del Spooner: This was hers. She wanted to be a dentist. What the hell kind of twelve-year-old wants to be a dentist? Yeah, um... the truck smashed our cars together and pushed us into the river. You know, metal gets pretty pliable at those speeds. She's pinned, I'm pinned, the water's coming in. I'm a cop, so I know everybody's dead. Just a few minutes until we figure that out. NS4 was passing by and jumped in the river.

NS4 Robots: [from flashback] You are in danger!

Detective Del Spooner: [from flashback] Save her!

NS4 Robots: [from flashback] You are in danger!

Detective Del Spooner: [from flashback] Save her! Save the girl!

Detective Del Spooner: But it didn't. Saved me.

Susan Calvin: The robot's brain is a difference engine. It's reading vital signs. It must have done...

Detective Del Spooner: It did. I was the logical choice. It calculated that I had a 45% chance of survival. Sarah only had an 11% chance. That was somebody's baby. 11% is more than enough. A human being would've known that. Robots,

[indicating his heart]

Detective Del Spooner: nothing here, just lights and clockwork. Go ahead, you trust 'em if you want to.

Logic be damned Joe.

You are happy to hand over a perfectly good organ to someone who has less than half the chance at survival than someone else?

Good God.

Unlike you, Noomi, I believe in miracles.

 

[Noomi]

The adult has the better chance at living, the adult should have come first.

The ONLY reason you think the girl should have come first is because you think her life is worth more.

Again, what if the adult on that list DIES because this kid took the organ which would have gone to them? What would you say then?

 

[TemplarKormac]

There is no reasoning with you, Templar. None. You refuse to acknowledge truth because it is so horrifying. Can't say I blame you, but instead of taking it out on everyone, you should take a deep breath.

Fact is, Gracie, no reasoning should be required. If my baby had a 10% chance, I'd take it. I think from a personal point of view, not from a speculative one.

 

[Gracie]

There is no reasoning with you, Templar. None. You refuse to acknowledge truth because it is so horrifying. Can't say I blame you, but instead of taking it out on everyone, you should take a deep breath.

Fact is, Gracie, no reasoning should be required. If my baby had a 10% chance, I'd take it. I think from a personal point of view, not from a speculative one.

Ok. But what if it were YOUR kid that was bumped BACK? Different tune, I think.

As I said..all the arguing in the world is not going to solve this particular dilemma.

 

[TemplarKormac]

The adult has the better chance at living, the adult should have come first.

The ONLY reason you think the girl should have come first is because you think her life is worth more.

Again, what if the adult on that list DIES because this kid took the organ which would have gone to them? What would you say then?

Thing is, she had little to no chance of survival without it. Would you rather her die? If she had, what would you be saying now?

 

[Noomi]

There is no reasoning with you, Templar. None. You refuse to acknowledge truth because it is so horrifying. Can't say I blame you, but instead of taking it out on everyone, you should take a deep breath.

Fact is, Gracie, no reasoning should be required. If my baby had a 10% chance, I'd take it. I think from a personal point of view, not from a speculative one.

What if someone else's baby had a 90% chance? Would you think that your 10% chance is worth more?

 

[TemplarKormac]

There is no reasoning with you, Templar. None. You refuse to acknowledge truth because it is so horrifying. Can't say I blame you, but instead of taking it out on everyone, you should take a deep breath.

Fact is, Gracie, no reasoning should be required. If my baby had a 10% chance, I'd take it. I think from a personal point of view, not from a speculative one.

Ok. But what if it were YOUR kid that was bumped BACK? Different tune, I think.

As I said..all the arguing in the world is not going to solve this particular dilemma.

There shouldn't have been any arguing to begin with. Just rejoicing. Let's leave it at that, shall we?

 

[Noomi]

The adult has the better chance at living, the adult should have come first.

The ONLY reason you think the girl should have come first is because you think her life is worth more.

Again, what if the adult on that list DIES because this kid took the organ which would have gone to them? What would you say then?

Thing is, she had little to no chance of survival without it. Would you rather her die? If she had, what would you be saying now?

Yet again, no mention of the adult who may die because the organ they needed went to this child.

 

[TemplarKormac]

There is no reasoning with you, Templar. None. You refuse to acknowledge truth because it is so horrifying. Can't say I blame you, but instead of taking it out on everyone, you should take a deep breath.

Fact is, Gracie, no reasoning should be required. If my baby had a 10% chance, I'd take it. I think from a personal point of view, not from a speculative one.

What if someone else's baby had a 90% chance? Would you think that your 10% chance is worth more?

Do you think I would sacrifice the life of my child, all based on that logic? If my child has any chance to live, that is good enough for me.

 

[Noomi]

Fact is, Gracie, no reasoning should be required. If my baby had a 10% chance, I'd take it. I think from a personal point of view, not from a speculative one.

Ok. But what if it were YOUR kid that was bumped BACK? Different tune, I think.

As I said..all the arguing in the world is not going to solve this particular dilemma.

There shouldn't have been any arguing to begin with. Just rejoicing. Let's leave it at that, shall we?

Why rejoice over the sacrificing of one life to save another?

 

[Noomi]

Fact is, Gracie, no reasoning should be required. If my baby had a 10% chance, I'd take it. I think from a personal point of view, not from a speculative one.

What if someone else's baby had a 90% chance? Would you think that your 10% chance is worth more?

Do you think I would sacrifice the life of my child, all based on that logic? If my child has any chance to live, that is good enough for me.

Are you saying that your child's 10% chance is worth more than my child's 90% chance? Are you saying that your child deserves to live more than my child?

 

[TemplarKormac]

The adult has the better chance at living, the adult should have come first.

The ONLY reason you think the girl should have come first is because you think her life is worth more.

Again, what if the adult on that list DIES because this kid took the organ which would have gone to them? What would you say then?

Thing is, she had little to no chance of survival without it. Would you rather her die? If she had, what would you be saying now?

Yet again, no mention of the adult who may die because the organ they needed went to this child.

Yet again, as you said before, no life is more important than the other, but here you are valuing one over the other. I deplore double standards.

:|

 

[Noomi]

Thing is, she had little to no chance of survival without it. Would you rather her die? If she had, what would you be saying now?

Yet again, no mention of the adult who may die because the organ they needed went to this child.

Yet again, as you said before, no life is more important than the other, but here you are valuing one over the other. I deplore double standards.

:|

You value the life of the child over the life of an adult, you hypocrite!